Light Fittings

[Greenside]

On checking the wiring that has just been installed at the 2nd fit stage, I don't see an earth wire available to go to the light fittings. The electrician has fitted junction boxes with flexible metal cable conduits to serve the downlights but I only see a pair of wires which will presumably run to the bulb. I was shopping for fittings just today and see that several of the better made ones have an earth connection fitted. The power outlets are all ready for three pin use, at least.

How much sleep should I lose tonight?

[Crossy]

If your lights are out of reach, none

If the fittings can be touched easily, lose a little sleep and install an RCD.

If a child could touch the fitting, install a ground wire and an RCD.

[Greenside]

The fittings are all high out of the way and the CU will have an RCD but at some point I guess I'll have to change a bulb....

[Crossy]

The fittings are all high out of the way and the CU will have an RCD but at some point I guess I'll have to change a bulb....

If the switch is correctly wired in the Live you have nothing to worry about on your bamboo ladder with your rubber gloves and shoes

If you use LEDs then you may never have to change a bulb anyway

[Artisi]

If there are any in the bathroom or other wet area like the laundry when you could lose a little sleep.

Question for Crossy - shouldn't metal junction boxes, wall boxes and metal conduit be earth connected?

[Greenside]

Actually, I'm about to do all the lights around the building with LEDs and debating whether to install transformers to run them or buy the bulbs which will run directly on 220V. I'll have 20 of them running for about 9 hours a day and try to keep a good record of their performance. My present experience indicates the claimed lifespan to be about as accurate as energy saving bulbs, at least six of which have failed in my present abode after 800 hours or so. We're talking 6000 baht on bulbs here so I'm banking on a better result.

[Crossy]

Artisi

Yes, you should ground any metal conduit and boxes (less important if it's not exposed). Some countries allow the use of the conduit as the ground conductor so there could be a money saver if you're all metallic.

Greenside

If you're going for LEDs I'd get the low voltage (12V) ones with one power supply running a lot of the beasties, if you do this you can under-run them slightly without significantly impacting the illumination but it should extend their life to be almost infinite.

My home-built LED fittings (although they are mains powered) under run the LEDs by about 10%, they run cooler and should last pretty much forever. I have one experimental unit with 15 x 3 Watt LEDs, it's pushing my driver design to the limit (running 45W when it was really designed to max out at 36W), the lighting head gets pretty warm even with forced cooling (CPU heatsink and fan) but it is very bright, we'll see how well it holds up illuminating the garden.

My Chinese supplier does LED modules up to 300W (bl00dy expensive) should be suitable for your lighthouse

[David006]

Artisi

Yes, you should ground any metal conduit and boxes (less important if it's not exposed). Some countries allow the use of the conduit as the ground conductor so there could be a money saver if you're all metallic.

Greenside

If you're going for LEDs I'd get the low voltage (12V) ones with one power supply running a lot of the beasties, if you do this you can under-run them slightly without significantly impacting the illumination but it should extend their life to be almost infinite.

My home-built LED fittings (although they are mains powered) under run the LEDs by about 10%, they run cooler and should last pretty much forever. I have one experimental unit with 15 x 3 Watt LEDs, it's pushing my driver design to the limit (running 45W when it was really designed to max out at 36W), the lighting head gets pretty warm even with forced cooling (CPU heatsink and fan) but it is very bright, we'll see how well it holds up illuminating the garden.

My Chinese supplier does LED modules up to 300W (bl00dy expensive) should be suitable for your lighthouse

Crossy: interested to know if you have done any sums re power consumption ( economics/amortization)of your/any LED fittings vs low watt flouros? Reason I am asking is that I have all 3w sexy low profile warm white flouros in my down lights except the kitchen and baths at 8w+....all easy

I am guessing you did your led lighting and experiments for your own enjoyment/satisfaction as much as anything...goodonya..

Also... have you seen/had any experience of those led solar auto floods etc etc built in Malaysia ..can buy online (scorigin dotcom)? ..50-300 bucks if I remember..wish bloody Homepro would stock some of 'em

Re lighting grounds...have a few brushed metal bedside lamps all with two pin non polarized plugs...like most you see around...better get rubber incontinence sheets on the beds....lol

[electau]

If there are any in the bathroom or other wet area like the laundry when you could lose a little sleep.

Question for Crossy - shouldn't metal junction boxes, wall boxes and metal conduit be earth connected?

All metallic conduits and boxes requite earthing, but in Thailand this is generally not found.

Light fitting do not generally require earthing if above 2.5meters from where a person may be reasonably expected to stand. If fittings not earthed at least install an RCD on the lighting circuit. Light fittings should be earthed if in a defined earthed situation.

Many standards including AS3000 require earthing and RCDs on all lighting circuits.

But remember this is Thailand.

[Greenside]

Re under running the LEDs. I'm not clear as to what you mean by that - is it the rating of the transformers I should buy?

My external lighting (well, under the soffit around the whole house) is planned as 20 3W LEDs (in fittings designed for the regular two pin halogen lamps) + 6 LED lights set into the entrance steps + four LEDs in fittings on the porch pillars. These all to be controlled by a photoelectric cell wired 2 way with a switch in the building.

[BuckarooBanzai]

The fittings are all high out of the way and the CU will have an RCD but at some point I guess I'll have to change a bulb....

If the switch is correctly wired in the Live you have nothing to worry about on your bamboo ladder with your rubber gloves and shoes

If you use LEDs then you may never have to change a bulb anyway

Shame on you Crossy, you forgot the part about keeping one foot in a bucket!

Edited July 31, 2011 by BuckarooBanzai

[khunPer]

Actually, I'm about to do all the lights around the building with LEDs and debating whether to install transformers to run them or buy the bulbs which will run directly on 220V. I'll have 20 of them running for about 9 hours a day and try to keep a good record of their performance. My present experience indicates the claimed lifespan to be about as accurate as energy saving bulbs, at least six of which have failed in my present abode after 800 hours or so. We're talking 6000 baht on bulbs here so I'm banking on a better result.

I made a new house with nearly all LED bulbs. However, some of the 220-volt bulbs available in Thailand (seems like all comes from China) blows up after quite short time. When a LED bulb blows, it may also blow the mains fuse. It seems to be the tiny transformer or cirquit board inside, that do not last - the LED itself is okay. May be caused by bad manufacturing or the often changing voltage and spikes in the Thai-supply.

When using low voltage LED bulbs - 12 volt - you will need the special transformers for LEDs. A normal electronic transformer for halogen lamps may not work at all or just flahing the LED, due to the low power consumption (1-5 watt) in the LED bulb. A normal transformer will always work - however, if you use a 50 watt transformer, you will tap around 50 watt from the mains, even using a 1 watt LED, so you will not save any mains power. However 1 oldfashioned 50 watt transformer may run 10+ LED bulbs and allows you to use fairly long wires from the transformer to the LED bulb - however you will loose a little power and end up with some 10-11 volt. Philips makes a high quality 4 watt LED bulb, warm white and dimmable, using a dimmer and a normal transformer - unfortunately quite expencieve (1080 baht). In principle you may dim all LEDs, when the power supply is low voltage DC.

I have more than 200 LED bulbs in my house and have so far (1 year) only had problems with some of the 220-volt models.

[CDNinKS]

I see many LED screw in bulbs available in Ebay. The 38 LED models are around $5. What light equivalent is a 38 LED bulb?

[Crossy]

I see many LED screw in bulbs available in Ebay. The 38 LED models are around $5. What light equivalent is a 38 LED bulb?

Those are about 4 Watts, equivalent to a slightly larger (say 5W) CFL lamp, say 25 Watt regular bulb.

I would avoid those multi-LED lamps like the plague, go for something with a minimum of 1 Watt LEDS (3 in a 3 Watt lamp).

[transam]

The only thing that is not earthed in my place are the outside wall lights. With them switched off l got a belt when changing a bulb.

Don't take anything for granted here.

[CDNinKS]

Those are about 4 Watts, equivalent to a slightly larger (say 5W) CFL lamp, say 25 Watt regular bulb.

I would avoid those multi-LED lamps like the plague, go for something with a minimum of 1 Watt LEDS (3 in a 3 Watt lamp).

Thanks for that Crossy, I see that there are the 3 watt ones you mention on Ebay as well for $4.50 but they say that they will be the equivalent of a 30 watt incandescent...... so looks like being able to replace a 60 watt light with an LED is not practical at this time.

Sorry for the thread drift

[Crossy]

Those are about 4 Watts, equivalent to a slightly larger (say 5W) CFL lamp, say 25 Watt regular bulb.

I would avoid those multi-LED lamps like the plague, go for something with a minimum of 1 Watt LEDS (3 in a 3 Watt lamp).

Thanks for that Crossy, I see that there are the 3 watt ones you mention on Ebay as well for $4.50 but they say that they will be the equivalent of a 30 watt incandescent...... so looks like being able to replace a 60 watt light with an LED is not practical at this time.

Sorry for the thread drift

LED modules are available up to 300 Watts!! So replacement of a 60W incandescent / halogen is no issue at all, it's just not going to cost you $6. I've got 3W spots in my reading lights, easily bright enough but difficult to compare with regular lamps because they are highly directional.

I've had good experiences with this Chinese supplier, not the cheapest by a long way, but the products I've got from them have proved reliable http://www.satisled.com/index.php

[CDNinKS]

That's a great website Crossy.

Just read that a 60 watt incandescent is about 800 lumens, so this one Here, which looks like the largest replacement this company offers would only be about the same as about a 40 watt incandescent.

I have about 30 down lights around the perimeter of the house and just looking for a way to cut down on consumption while maintaining a good amount of light output. Still looks like other than the longevity of the LED that CF might still be my best bet.

Edited July 31, 2011 by CDNinKS

[wandrinstar]

Indeed,good posts, ill add my bit. Brit Friend got stopped at Swampy with all the 3 Pin Brit Style gear for a 4 Bedroom House. Hes a Geordie, and had a hard time explaining he wasn't here to work.Got his Satchel full of Tools,when all the others had Cameras over their shoulder..

[CDNinKS]

Just found this website, see what you mean about cost

Here

[Crossy]

Just found this website, see what you mean about cost

Here

Now that is a crazy price

[BuckarooBanzai]

Just a thought - how about a separate circuit (easy if you are in the construction stage) and running all LED lighting off a UPS to avoid the equipment destroying voltage fluctuations so common here in Thailand. Also helpful during a power outage. Like I said, just a thought. Personally I would never pay the premium price for LED lighting after having experienced the destructive voltage swings here in the North East without some kind of protection.

[Crossy]

Yup ^^^, all our lighting in the new house will be LED (except the floodlights which will be CFL) all run (along with PCs / TVs etc) from our 4kVA UPS and voltage regulator.

[BuckarooBanzai]

Yup ^^^, all our lighting in the new house will be LED (except the floodlights which will be CFL) all run (along with PCs / TVs etc) from our 4kVA UPS and voltage regulator.

Wow, you sure know how to turn a guy green with envy! Sounds great.

[Crossy]

The fun part will be getting the Thai sparks to understand.

We have UPS outlets (these will be red) and non-UPS outlets, all UPS lighting, fans on UPS, not sure about the water pump yet (probably on the UPS, but will have to watch out for the start current), water heaters and aircon straight off mains.

[BuckarooBanzai]

The fun part will be getting the Thai sparks to understand.

We have UPS outlets (these will be red) and non-UPS outlets, all UPS lighting, fans on UPS, not sure about the water pump yet (probably on the UPS, but will have to watch out for the start current), water heaters and aircon straight off mains.

Will you be using standard outlets or non-standard (like a Malaysian outlet). Just wondering because red to a Thai probably means hair dryer, hair straightener, electric grill and other hot things. In other words have you made them Thai-proof?

[khunPer]

Just a thought - how about a separate circuit (easy if you are in the construction stage) and running all LED lighting off a UPS to avoid the equipment destroying voltage fluctuations so common here in Thailand. Also helpful during a power outage. Like I said, just a thought. Personally I would never pay the premium price for LED lighting after having experienced the destructive voltage swings here in the North East without some kind of protection.

I have that, but you will need a kind of protection before the UPS, as overvoltage may destroy the UPS - I've lost 4 UPS' due to voltage spikes, before I learned to protect my systems. You may use a lighting/spike protection panel or plug - or more advanced use the automatic over/under voltage cirquit braker with a magnetic switch. That is worth installing on all sensitive groups, like aircons and water pumps, which may be destroyed as well by under voltage. Will cost around 1500 baht (protector + magnetic) for a single phase - cheaper than replacing for 50-100k baht spoiled electric equipment.

An UPS may deliver up to some 350 Watt, but only around 15-30 minutes (aprox 7 Ah at 12V). If you wish a power failure safe lighting, let one 400 Watt UPS run a total of 100-150 Watt LED lamps (i.e. 25 pcs. 3-5W bulbs). You can extend the power-failure-life-time by adding one or more external 18Ah 12V batteries, each external battery may give you 2 hours when using around 100W.

[khunPer]

The fun part will be getting the Thai sparks to understand.

We have UPS outlets (these will be red) and non-UPS outlets, all UPS lighting, fans on UPS, not sure about the water pump yet (probably on the UPS, but will have to watch out for the start current), water heaters and aircon straight off mains.

Will you be using standard outlets or non-standard (like a Malaysian outlet). Just wondering because red to a Thai probably means hair dryer, hair straightener, electric grill and other hot things. In other words have you made them Thai-proof?

I have UPS outlets in all rooms - just mark them clearly with an "U" or "UPS" and tell, they are for special use only (computers, TV and the like) - not for hairdryers, vacuum cleaners, irons, rice cookers etc.

Remember to use earthed outlets, especially for computers.

I have all the UPS' placed central at the machine room - one UPS for the TV-set in each room, one UPS for general lighting up to 100W etc. Most UPS models gives a high warning beep during power failure, so keeping the UPS' away from the living area, gives you a good night sleep during a power break. An UPS may work some 15-30 minutes with a LCD/LED TV, but will not last with a plasma screen, as the plasma screen takes to much power.

You cannot run a waterpunp from en UPS, you will either destroy the UPS (the inverter part) or the water pump. An UPS inverter delivers a modified sine-wave. However a fan will work.

[BuckarooBanzai]

I have that, but you will need a kind of protection before the UPS, as overvoltage may destroy the UPS - I've lost 4 UPS' due to voltage spikes, before I learned to protect my systems. You may use a lighting/spike protection panel or plug - or more advanced use the automatic over/under voltage cirquit braker with a magnetic switch. That is worth installing on all sensitive groups, like aircons and water pumps, which may be destroyed as well by under voltage. Will cost around 1500 baht (protector + magnetic) for a single phase - cheaper than replacing for 50-100k baht spoiled electric equipment.

An UPS may deliver up to some 350 Watt, but only around 15-30 minutes (aprox 7 Ah at 12V). If you wish a power failure safe lighting, let one 400 Watt UPS run a total of 100-150 Watt LED lamps (i.e. 25 pcs. 3-5W bulbs). You can extend the power-failure-life-time by adding one or more external 18Ah 12V batteries, each external battery may give you 2 hours when using around 100W.

Good info. Not familiar with what is high lighted in blue. Could you provide more info on those as we have a lot of lightning around my area and for the price sounds reasonable. Thanks.

[Crossy]

BB what you need for spike / lightning protection is a MOV (Metal Oxide Varistor), there are a couple of threads on this forum regarding these beasties, try a search. If I get a minute later I'll have a look (tied up today with contractor meetings).