American-led Peace Movements

[Georgie-Porgie]

Neo-con:

In french "con" means "moron".

So "neo-con" means "the new moron".

French is a beautiful language !!

adjan jb, this is your post from above. If you were innocent of insulting behavior, I might have to give what you have to say more thought, but you have already let me off the hook!

However, let's look at your post. You are a pretty good example of the kind of person that I am usually arguing with.

You are insinuating that Neo-Cons are stupid, when, anyone who knows anything at all, knows that that is absurd. Some of the most brilliant people in the US government are Neo-Cons, whether you agree with them, or you don't (I'm still making up my mind).

What you really mean is that all conservatives are stupid, which, of course, is also not true.

That is why I abuse people like you in my posts. You think that as long as you stay on the left, you come off as "intelligent". Conservatives are rednecks. Conservatives are stupid.

Well grow up. Your thinking is completely wrong.

I don't think that liberals in general are any less informed than I am. In fact, I would probably describe myself as a liberal. It's only a certain type that I have disdain for; The ones that don't really know very much, yet, take themselves much too seriously; the ones that get up on their high horse, spew a bunch of the same old P.C. bullsh1t, prove nothing, and then pat themselves on the back for being so "clever". The ones that I see so often on this forum, full of insults and all jumping on Membrane like a pack of hyenas.

[adjan jb]

Georgie, I don't think all neo-cons are stupid. Unfortunately, they're not.

They are just plain dangerous.

(The terms "left" and "liberal" are to be used very carefully as they don't have the same meaning in Europe and in the U.S.)

[adjan jb]

" american-led peace movements " is a fine example of an oxymoron.

As good as "english cuisine".

[Khun ?]

The only thing you can compare Iraq to would be North Korea with oil. I am sure they would enjoy some western people to move there. So if some of you believe the place is so great you should of already been there. They enjoy liberal thinking westerners and will accomodate your every whimper. The Laura Bush school is

doing great in Afghan so you may want to stop by and see it on your way.

Have a nice trip to your beautiful new country. Then again we are talking the european community that would not enter the balkans without the U.S.,

just maybe because there was no big contracts without the U.S paying for them.

[singa-traz]

Then again we are talking the european community that would not enter the balkans without the U.S.,

just maybe because there was no big contracts without the U.S paying for them.

Talking about the Balkans: http://sweb.uky.edu/~jahanl1/911/archive/oil-draffan.html

[Georgie-Porgie]

Georgie,

People who disagree with you are "politically-correct ninnies without an ounce of brains", "ignorant" and "ignoramuses".

Thanks adjan jb, I totally agree with you. You're not such a bad guy after all.

[Khun ?]

Then again we are talking the european community that would not enter the balkans without the U.S.,

just maybe because there was no big contracts without the U.S paying for them.

Talking about the Balkans: http://sweb.uky.edu/~jahanl1/911/archive/oil-draffan.html

Yes oil needs to get from the ground to the power plants and vehicles of the world.

Many countries are to unstable to have pipelines without a huge cost in security.

Many big oil companies specialize in such areas of interest. Explain why no one would go into the balkans unless the U.S. went. The U.S. was in kazakhstan before the Balkans crisis. The pipeline through the balkans would benefit europeans

for the most part. Pipelines are much more efficient than ships are at far less cost, it benefits the world all together. Having stable governments in oil rich countries does also. Dictators with vast amounts of cash and dangerous weapons are a threat to the free oil using world, it is the way of the 21st century. In the worlds interest we cannot play patsy with such dictators who will turn off the supplies to the world on a whim or who will provide dangerous weapons to Al-qeada or other religious cults. It is of world interest to have a stable middle east.

Saddam was anything but that. Iraq is a keystone to years of stability and peace in the region.

[Thaiquila]

Here is more credible evidence that "Bushs' Iraq Folly" was a mistake and a dangerous diversion from where the focus should be, the fight against Al Queda:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c...MNGAC4868T1.DTL

One juicy quote from this academic war expert:

"Record's core criticism is that the administration is biting off more than it can chew. He likens the scale of U.S. ambitions in the war on terrorism to Hitler's overreach in World War II. "

This combined with the revelations of former Bush insider O'Neill are hopeful signs that the truth about Bush are coming out to American voters, the only people with the power to correct this mistake.

[adjan jb]

The Army War College's strategic studies institute has just published a report on the war on terrorism.

Here are some excerpts:

- "Unnecessary war in Iraq".

- "Unrealistic quest agaisnt terrorism".

- "The U.S. army is near a breaking point".

- "The anti-terrorism campaign is strategically unfocused,promises more

than it can deliver, and threatens to dissipate U.S. military resources in

an endless ans hopeless search for absolute security".

- "Iraq was a war-of-choice distraction from the war of necessity agaisnt

Al-Qaeda".

The report likens the scale of U.S. ambitions in the war on terrorism to Hitler's overreach in ww 2.

The report also recommends "scaling back the scope of the global war on terrorism and instead focusing on the narrower threat posed by the Al-Qaeda terrorist network".

I guess everybody agrees that the Army War College is not a den of liberals or other commies (Georgie-P probably won't, but his case is unique and most certainly incurable. Who has ever heard of a "liberal neo-con" ?).

What the report says is that the Bush administration is a bunch of ambitious fools whose pretentions will lead the U.S. to a disaster (inch Allah). It says that Bush and his cronies don't really care if the masterminds behind 9-11 are never arrested (what they could say might be embarrassing for the whitehouse, Saudi-Arabia and some other dear friends). It shows than the invasion (and the subsequent occupation) of Iraq was meant to give The U.S. (and Israel) the control of the Middle-East and its huge reserves of oil.

What the report really says is that the billionaires who rule America don't give a ###### about their own citizens, seen as expendable cannon-fodder (and 50% of these peasants still support Bush, their feudal warlord).

As for Osama Bin Laden, He' s having some good time in his holyday camp. I've heard that he will soon send some souvenirs to all his american friends. He is so grateful that you give him so much freedom.

Allah Akbar !

[Georgie-Porgie]

Oh excuse me! Fellows, you forgot to point something out about this earthshaking report:

The essay, published by the Army War College's Strategic Studies Institute, carries the standard disclaimer that its views are those of the author and don't necessarily represent those of the Army, the Pentagon, or the U.S. government.

That pretty much says it all.

In America we pretty much like to study every point of view, to make sure that we choose the right one. We have "experts" with conflicting opinions writing about just about everything. In other words, just because something is published doesn't mean jack-sh1t about it being right!

Case closed. Find some other wacky sh1t, that, you think, supports your views on the web, and hope that no one actually goes and looks at it.

[Thaiquila]

Well, I guess this thread can now be closed, as the evidence that George W. Bush is a disgraceful liar, a danger to his own country and the world, has been overwhelming.

[adjan jb]

Right Georgie-Porgie (By the way, how are you today ?), the report, published by the Army War College's strategic studies institute carries the STANDARD disclaimer that its views are those of the author and don't represent those of the army, the pentagon, or the government.

But Douglas Lovelace, the director of the A.W.C.'s strategic studies institute hardly distanced himself from it:

"I THINK THAT THE SUBSTANCE THAT THE AUTHOR BRINGS OUT IN THE ARTICLE REALLY, REALLY NEEDS TO BE CONSIDERED", he said.

THE CASE REMAINS OPEN.

Be careful, Georgie-Porgie. To label the Army War College's report as "wacky sh1t" is plain treason.

Are you with us or against us ?

[Georgie-Porgie]

Well, I'm sure that you convinced yourself anyway. Congratulations!

[Georgie-Porgie]

adjan jb, maybe you don't do a lot of reading? That quote means nothing more than the report is worth considering. Nothing more.

[adjan jb]

So why do you refuse to consider it ?

[Membrane]

So why do you refuse to consider it ?

adjan jb, you're starting to sound more and more like the dreaded... BUTTERFLY. Are you sure you and he don't share IP addresses??? Hmmm...

[adjan jb]

I'm worse than Butterfly.

I'm so mean that I could be French.

[Georgie-Porgie]

I am considering parts of that report, and I would imagine that G.W. Bush is as well. I try to consider every sensible opinion and every option. That is how we do things in America.

No one here is claiming that the US is perfect, only that it is very likely that we can lead the world in the War Against Terrorism better than any other one country.

[adjan jb]

Georgie-Porgie, there should not be a war against terrorism ( terrorism is a concept), there should be some police work in order to catch the people behind the 9-11 attacks (not to mention anthrax ).

All the leads point to Saudi Arabia. Not Iraq.

[Georgie-Porgie]

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. There should be a war against terrorism. There should have been one before 9/11. We have human garbage, using the most vicious, most inhuman methods possible, trying to dictate to Planet Earth what we can, and can not do. What we can and can not believe. A lot of people, and lot of countries, tried to ignore them in the past, and hoped they would go away. They didn't.

They need to be hunted down and put out of commission. Permanently.

[Khun ?]

Georgie-Porgie, there should not be a war against terrorism ( terrorism is a concept), there should be some police work in order to catch the people behind the 9-11 attacks (not to mention anthrax ).

All the leads point to Saudi Arabia. Not Iraq.

Are you Saddam's accountant or someone that would know where the countries billions are, besides his 27 palaces.

[adjan jb]

War is not the answer. It can't be.

Every time an arab (whether a terrorist or an innocent passer-by) is killed by a (trigger happy or scared) G.I, the code of honor requires his family and friends to kill 10 of your soldiers (they're just as stubborn as americans).

So if you follow that path, you might never get home as it will be an endless war.

Maybe you should pause and ask yourselves why there are terrorist networks targetting The U.S.

Are you, as a country, that innocent ?

Is war the only answer ? isn't economic development a better one ?

Shouldn't Israel be restrained ?

Shouldn't the american military complex be restrained as well.

You talk about "human garbage using the most inhuman methods", forgetting that americans have already been "human garbage" using similar methods (in Viêt-Man, at least, which is a country that I know very well).

You talk about "human garbage trying to dictate the planet Earth what can be done and what can't be done". But that's exactly what the US is doing on trade agreements and enviromental issues.

Nothing comes in black and white, Georgie-Porgie. There are a lot more shades.

Ignorance and Blindness will be America's epitaph.

[Thaiquila]

The US has a poor record with wars against concepts.

For example, the war on poverty. Lost that one. No one mentions it anymore.

War on drugs. Pass the doobie.

So maybe a war on terrorism is really an overreach.

Seems to make more sense to identify specific enemies, such as

Al Queda, any other specific groups, and governments (such as Afghanistan did) that support them. Even this is problematical, of course, because then the US would be at war with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, but that isn't likely to happen soon.

[adjan jb]

To Khun ?,

Sorry I can't tell you where the money is. But I can tell you where the WMD are not.

[Membrane]

Hey Thaiquila--

Hey adjan jb --

ALL THIS TALK ABOUT AMERICA, AMERICA, AMERICA...

What country are you from? Just so we can all discuss your countries downfalls and problems too. You're not afraid to do that are you? Or do you just want to sit back and snipe at America, safe sitting behind your keyboards?? If you are proud of your country and it's performance in the world--and have nothing to fear from some simple reciprocal critiques, then let us all know what country you come from.

Membrane

[Thaiquila]

Here is an interesting analysis of the revelations of Paul O'Neill, former Bush cabinet member. ###### those right wingers. Greedy bastards. The conclusion is that Bush is a moron, so maybe it is not his fault, being slow as he is.

January 12, 2004

O'Neill's Revenge

The Curse of the Irish

By MIKE WHITNEY

Former Secretary of the Treasury, Paul O' Neill's appearance turned out to be significantly more illuminating than anyone could possibly have expected. Notwithstanding, his description of the President as a "disengaged" simpleton with the attention span of a preschooler, he provided a great deal of new information that could suggest future indictments. Take for example, the fact that O'Neill can produce documents to substantiate that the Administration had concrete plans to rebuild Iraq even prior to 9-11. With revelations like this, who can still cling to the sorry fable that Iraq posed a real threat to America's national security or, worse, that the invasion was a necessary component in the war on terror?

O' Neill's description of Bush give us the first real glimpse of how the President is coddled and manipulated by his two closest advisors, Cheney and Rove. His anecdote of how Bush resisted the second round of tax cuts, but was cajoled into "signing on" to accommodate his White House frat brothers, further amplifies the grim situation at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Bush emerges looking like a well-intended moron who is completely out of his depth, incapable of grasping the issues and unable to fend-off the menacing influences that surround him. Far from being the stalwart, decisive leader who operates on "gut instinct" ( a myth that pandering Bob Woodward tried to invent) Bush is appearing more and more like the empty suit that was predicted before the election.

The documentation that O' Neill provides is serious business. It verifies that at least 60 oil companies were colluding with government officials on the dividing up of Iraqi oil reserves even prior to 9-11. As many suspected, America's energy giants have been directly involved in writing policy from the very beginning. (Can anyone still doubt that the Calif. energy crisis was not manufactured in Cheney's office?) Once the decision to invade Iraq was made in America's board rooms, it probably took little effort enlist politicians to the cause. Undoubtedly, it took even less to enroll our cheerleading media, always "at-the- ready" to serve their corporate benefactors. (In the latest edition of Z Magazine, the details of how Iraqi oil revenues are being illegally diverted from the Central Bank of Iraq into the Federal Reserve, infers that the Fed was also involved in endorsing the plan to remove Saddam. The fact that the Fed is keeping interest rates artificially low indicates their tacit support of the policies of aggression)

All in all, the O'Neill appearance on 60 Minutes provided a fair amount of damning testimony against the current administration. It looks as though the number of groups and people that were either directly involved in the planning for the war, or privy to the plot to remove Saddam by force is truly staggering. It suggests that what took place among America's conservative elite may have been tantamount to "a vast right wing conspiracy".

[Georgie-Porgie]

Thaiquila is a Benedict Arnold.

adjan jb is from Australia.

Sorry, lunchtime boys!

[Thaiquila]

Hey Thaiquila--

Hey adjan jb --

ALL THIS TALK ABOUT AMERICA, AMERICA, AMERICA...

What country are you from?

Membrane

Why as I have repeatedly said, I am an American. Native born in the Liberty Bell City, Philadelphia.

[adjan jb]

Bon appétit Georgie-Porgie.

Did I say, in a previous post, how much I love these healthy conversations with refined and educated neo-cons ?

I am not from Australia.

See you tomorow

I also have to go.

Hope you don't miss too much.

[Thaiquila]

Thaiquila is a Benedict Arnold.

If being a truth seeking, fascist hating, freedom and civil rights loving American makes me a Benedict Arnold, just call be Ben and pass the bangers and mash!

For the non-Yanks, Ben was a famous pro British American traitor in the US revolution against Britain.