Plan Mulled To Cut Channel Through Bangkok Roads

[janverbeem]

50 million cabic metres per second?

Can anyone imagine the size of such a pump?

No I can't,but I can't either imagine that there are people , who are old enough to post on a public forum, that don't have enough brains to realise that there might be more than 1 pump used.

[JSPS]

Here's a thought. Because Bangkok and surroundings are so close to sea level, how about digging up the roads and replacing them with canals? That should keep the waters flowing.

They could come up with some marketing to sell it. They could advertise Bangkok as the "Venice of the East". That's catchy.

[whiteelephant]

There is little that can be done to control the water, so I hope they consider this plan very, very carefully. Once you cut channels through the roads, you are effectively cutting off large sections of the city and unless you have flood gates, you have lost what little control over the water that they do have.

If they put in flood gates, it starts sounding like a major project.

The issue of slight changes in elevation have proven to be a big problem. I am in an area that is supposed to be flooded. It was supposed to flood a long time ago. It hasn't. Either we are higher than we thought, or somewhere nearby is higher.

Engineers with a plan are good, but these guys might not fully comprehend the complexity of destroying infrastructure.

I would just like to add that holland is as flat as a pancake, and at SCHIPOOL airport there is a plaque on the wall qoute: saying the airport is built 18 meters below sea level, i have worked in holland and I used

to travel by train from Amsterdam to Denn Helder, and all you see on the way up there is water and plenty of it, yes they did have a very bad flood in 1953, but they did things about it after the water susided

since that they have not had any problems, so perhaps the water Authority of Thailand should take a leave out of their book.

[kanderson]

water flows down hill, it seems from what the Uni Prof says - this would have the opposite of the desired effect, in saying that I wouldn't write off the principle of creating extra waterways to expediate the drainage just make sure you do it in the right places, when this is all over make them permanent waterways for future flood relief by building proper chanels and bridges.

Maybe a path of least resistance could work. I'll bet much of the water wants to end up around the swampy (airport) area as it has for centuries.

[DizietSma]

Apparently, according to a Nation Business tweet, "Toyota suspended vehicles assembly in U.S.,Canada due to supplies disruption from flood-hit Thai suppliers "

So, Toyota suggest a plan that will flood Bangkok, keep Toyota factories in Chachongsao dry, and restart global Toyota priorities. Thanks Toyota!

[JannoDL]

Here's a thought. Because Bangkok and surroundings are so close to sea level, how about digging up the roads and replacing them with canals? That should keep the waters flowing.

They could come up with some marketing to sell it. They could advertise Bangkok as the "Venice of the East". That's catchy.

Good idea, and to make sure the water dont run out of bangkok again, they should make dikes to contain the water.

In the future it could be advertised as "Floating Thailand" instead of "Amazing Thailand" which anyhow is slightly inaccurate...

[siampolee]

JSPS. # 32

Here's a thought. Because Bangkok and surroundings are so close to sea level, how about digging up the roads and replacing them with canals? That should keep the waters flowing.

They could come up with some marketing to sell it. They could advertise Bangkok as the "Venice of the East". That's catchy.

Thailand has been there done it and scrapped it sad to say.

[tingtongfarang]

Here's a thought. Because Bangkok and surroundings are so close to sea level, how about digging up the roads and replacing them with canals? That should keep the waters flowing.

They could come up with some marketing to sell it. They could advertise Bangkok as the "Venice of the East". That's catchy.

Not sure if that was meant as satire, They have been filling in the klongs since many years and building roads on them.

[khaowong1]

50 million cabic metres per second?

Can anyone imagine the size of such a pump?

Is there such a pump anywhere in the world?

[Xonax]

I say "DO IT."

And a big THANK YOU for the lady Prime Minister who is holding up and doing remarkably well. I believe in you and I support you. You are dealing with an unprecedented situation in Thailand.

May the blessing of the Triple Gem be with you!!!

Is this you again Thaksin?

[siampolee]

Apparently, according to a Nation Business tweet, "Toyota suspended vehicles assembly in U.S.,Canada due to supplies disruption from flood-hit Thai suppliers "

So, Toyota suggest a plan that will flood Bangkok, keep Toyota factories in Chachongsao dry, and restart global Toyota priorities. Thanks Toyota!

" Money , Money, it's the Rich Mans Tool."

Business operators worldwide do indeed have a "yen" for making money,

Edited October 28, 2011 by siampolee

[BCP]

50 million cabic metres per second?

Can anyone imagine the size of such a pump?

No I can't,but I can't either imagine that there are people , who are old enough to post on a public forum, that don't have enough brains to realise that there might be more than 1 pump used.

The figure of 50 million m3/sec is an obvious mistake. That is 8,333 times the rate given as the maximum (in flood) disharge of the Chao Phraya into the Gulf of Thailand. The tsunami it would cause would have Thailand accused of washing Singapore down to the Antarctic.

[huanga]

This idea is preposterous. To be "studying" a spur of the moment plan just days ago proposed by Toyota to "cut" through five major roads is totally mind boggling. This is the best case of "thrashing about" that you could imagine. Kill off everything around, but let's make sure that Toyota gets back in business. The Japanese probably gave this Thai partner the "or else" and he's actually proposing it to the government. How much disaster bakup and recovery planning did Toyota do? Let's take a look at their plan for flood and disaster management. How much effort did Toyota invest in educating its employees on flood safety, diseases, electrocution risk? Let's get that plan approved and, protect Toyota's interest and see how many more Thais can get Cholera, Dengue, Leptostirosis, Typhoid..etc. Maybe Toyota will have a new line of ambulances, medical vehicles, evacuation vehicles, and trucks to save all the people they killed off in this preposterous last minute thrashing about proposal to save their business. Shame on them.

Completely agree! Do this so we can save Toyota at the expense of other innocent Thai's homes and livelihood???? Do theses people have a say in to flood Toyota so their belongings can be saved?? Let wake up and find out the facts? Water naturally goes from high to low so what would be the most natural way for it to flow out causing the most minimal damages is the way that this administration is got to based its decisions on and not bow to some giant corp's pressure!

[newermonkey]

Well, the Japanese certainly know about blowing things up; ask the guys at Pearl. But I say destroying Bangkok's key thoroughfares (Bangna Trat!) is simply not enough.

I don't work for Toyota (or even Mazda for that matter) but I suggest the selective use of thermonuclear weapons to clear a few channels between the water and the sea is what's really needed.

Now where's the USS G. Washington, and more specifically it's arsenal, when you REALLY need it.

Toyota just want to destroy our roads so they can sell more 4x4s ! Its just a marketing ploy

[airconsult]

Apart from the homes, industrial estates (Lat Krabang) and major airport that are currently being saved by those roads that were deliberately built high to delay/slow floodwaters.......

I suggest locking the toyota thailand executives in a room with the representatives of the Japanese investment banks that loaned 50% (65 billion thb) for suvarnabhumi construction. Just a couple of days ago the Japanese government sent 2 airport disaster-recovery experts to sit with AOT and protect their investment......

Edited October 28, 2011 by airconsult

[oldgeezer]

So officials have a helicopter to fly around in, when it could be used to deliver supplies. Maybe they should have bought those submarines after all!

I appreciate your post is sarcasm and well taken.

Alternative, buy 2 Submarines from Korea for $500,000,000 or build 10,000 Army type DUKW's for same price. Puts Thai's to work, new business for thailand for entire east and SE asia. Holds min of 32 people each, tons of supplies....etc..................................Goes on land, water everywhere.

Edited October 28, 2011 by oldgeezer

[newermonkey]

So officials have a helicopter to fly around in, when it could be used to deliver supplies. Maybe they should have bought those submarines after all!

I appreciate your post is sarcasm and well taken.

Alternative, buy 2 Submarines from Korea for $500,000,000 or build 10,000 Army type DUKW's for same price. Puts Thai's to work, new business for thailand for entire east and SE asia. Holds min of 32 people each, tons of supplies....etc..................................Goes on land, water everywhere.

Same sentiments for those Korean water pumps. There are some factories in Thailand producing the same type of product.

[geriatrickid]

There is little that can be done to control the water, so I hope they consider this plan very, very carefully. Once you cut channels through the roads, you are effectively cutting off large sections of the city and unless you have flood gates, you have lost what little control over the water that they do have.

If they put in flood gates, it starts sounding like a major project.

The issue of slight changes in elevation have proven to be a big problem. I am in an area that is supposed to be flooded. It was supposed to flood a long time ago. It hasn't. Either we are higher than we thought, or somewhere nearby is higher.

Engineers with a plan are good, but these guys might not fully comprehend the complexity of destroying infrastructure.

I would just like to add that holland is as flat as a pancake, and at SCHIPOOL airport there is a plaque on the wall qoute: saying the airport is built 18 meters below sea level, i have worked in holland and I used

to travel by train from Amsterdam to Denn Helder, and all you see on the way up there is water and plenty of it, yes they did have a very bad flood in 1953, but they did things about it after the water susided

since that they have not had any problems, so perhaps the water Authority of Thailand should take a leave out of their book.

The flood threat in the Nederlands is from the ocean. It is very different in Thailand. Monsoons and large amounts of runoff preseent a very different scenario. When was the last time that Holland faced the threat of flooding from mountain and hundreds of rivers?

[chiangmaicharlies]

50 million cabic metres per second?

Can anyone imagine the size of such a pump?

Yes - it would be very big .........

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm thinking the dig up the roads plan would be much more effective if they'd get Minister Plod and his 1000 churning boats out there to move the water much faster....

It had such a great impact on the CP River.. I'm sure it could do the same wonders for the eastern drainage routes.

Surprised the Toyota guys or the government didn't think of that one themselves.

[Trouble]

This idea is preposterous. To be "studying" a spur of the moment plan just days ago proposed by Toyota to "cut" through five major roads is totally mind boggling. This is the best case of "thrashing about" that you could imagine. Kill off everything around, but let's make sure that Toyota gets back in business. The Japanese probably gave this Thai partner the "or else" and he's actually proposing it to the government. How much disaster bakup and recovery planning did Toyota do? Let's take a look at their plan for flood and disaster management. How much effort did Toyota invest in educating its employees on flood safety, diseases, electrocution risk? Let's get that plan approved and, protect Toyota's interest and see how many more Thais can get Cholera, Dengue, Leptostirosis, Typhoid..etc. Maybe Toyota will have a new line of ambulances, medical vehicles, evacuation vehicles, and trucks to save all the people they killed off in this preposterous last minute thrashing about proposal to save their business. Shame on them.

With the little amount of information given in the original post, I see no reason to assume that Toyota has come up with this idea just to insure that they get back into production. It is a proposal put forth and just maybe there is something to it or maybe it is not feasible. At least someone is out there making suggestions. Seems like a pretty harsh attack on Toyota without much to back up your accusations. Would you rather have them leave the country and put all the workers on the street?

Why is it everyone is always against big corporations? They bring jobs and development. If we did not have some of these big corporations we would not be flying in and out of Thailand, driving in cars or getting all the goods in Big C and other stores. I am happy with the products and servies these corporations bring.

Edited October 28, 2011 by Trouble

[kanderson]

I have seen what they build on top of here in Thailand...Those roads are protecting the dirt and mostly sand from being washed away....so if they cut a trrench .....all of that water will start washing away that dirt and sand from under things they don't want to....as the water runs through the trench it will get wider and wider and they will not be able to stop it...

The clearing or cutting accross Bang Na Trat Rd has been agreed on and will be completed within 3 days - is what I read in the Newspaper.

If they channel the water down there it will have a huge impact as well. I do think that this is where the water wants to go. It looks like they want to channel it to either side of the airport..

I'm sure they can dig accross Bang Na Trat Road with out too much problem. They use those huge metal plates etc.. a lot of people live down there as well.

I used to live in a condo development that was built in the marsh area starting on the Bangkok side of Bang Na Trad Rd (Srinakarin area). This seemed to be where all the water ended up after flooding. always water

- snakes even. I'll bet the capacity of the marshes has diminished. I hope pumps can save the day + future engineering.

[zydeco]

This idea is preposterous. To be "studying" a spur of the moment plan just days ago proposed by Toyota to "cut" through five major roads is totally mind boggling. This is the best case of "thrashing about" that you could imagine. Kill off everything around, but let's make sure that Toyota gets back in business. The Japanese probably gave this Thai partner the "or else" and he's actually proposing it to the government. How much disaster bakup and recovery planning did Toyota do? Let's take a look at their plan for flood and disaster management. How much effort did Toyota invest in educating its employees on flood safety, diseases, electrocution risk? Let's get that plan approved and, protect Toyota's interest and see how many more Thais can get Cholera, Dengue, Leptostirosis, Typhoid..etc. Maybe Toyota will have a new line of ambulances, medical vehicles, evacuation vehicles, and trucks to save all the people they killed off in this preposterous last minute thrashing about proposal to save their business. Shame on them.

With the little amount of information given in the original post, I see no reason to assume that Toyota has come up with this idea just to insure that they get back into production. It is a proposal put forth and just maybe there is something to it or maybe it is not feasible. At least someone is out there making suggestions. Seems like a pretty harsh attack on Toyota without much to back up your accusations. Would you rather have them leave the country and put all the workers on the street?

Somebody should be able to make a decision. Either the plan is feasible or it's not worth a hill of beans. That should be easily determined. They either know or they don't know. What is not needed is more hmmming and ahhhing and some undefined "study" which will be subject to all sorts of self interested "results".

[block2]

This doesn't sound like something to go charging into. There is going to be enough infrastructure damage as it is without deliberately destroying roads based on a "maybe" scenario. Unless it's minimal damage to roads that are pretty well unusable as it is now.

I had to go to Nakhon Sawan bus station yesterday to see if I could get a bus to Ratchburi...the bus station is closed and what I witnessed was total devastation.....the water as gone from all the walkways but the bus station car park still as 6" of water everywhere like a mini lake....there was no bus station representative there just a dozen or so people mopping the floors....all the booking offices where closed and all the furniture was all piled outside each office waiting for the rubbish collectors...there was a green slim on all the pavements and the smell was unbearable.

Every wall, window or door you looked at you could see a 6ft + tide line showing how high the water had been..there where over a dozen motobikes that had been left in the carpark durning the floods all ruined...atm's, telephone boxes, post boxes all will have to be replaced due to been covered by water durning the flood...their where 3 young ladies sat outside the 7/11 other the road from the bus station...taking a break from cleaning up...i noticed a 3 foot breeze block wall that had been built to stop the water...the tide mark was 3 ft above this wall...inside there was just mud, sand and rubbish everywhere...it will take weeks to clean and get back up and running again..same for the bus station and all surrounding shops....everywhere you looked their was just rubbish piled up along with 1,000's of sandbags.

After leaving the bus station, heading back home on the main A1 ( the main highway from Bangkok to Chang Mai ), it was like driving through a sandstorm couldn't see any thing...the roads are in a terrible state where they have used catapiller diggers to try and shore up the flood defences...the catapiller tracks have just ripped into the roads tarmac, there is mud, dust and sand everywhere...all along one side they have lined up 100's of concrete pipe sections and covered these with clay/mud...the dividing road verge which divides the north and south roads used to be grassed and have many flower displays this is just a wall of mud/clay again used as a flood defence.....

Going across the bridge the road wasn't to bad, as durning the floods this road had been closed....only the 2 north bound carrageways had been open and the northbound road into nakhon sawan is just full of pot holes now which you cannot avoid....very very dangerous for motorcyclists. It was a heartbreaking experience witnessing what I did and will stay with me for many years to come...the clean up operation and repairing is going to take many months....and this is only in Nakhon Sawan.......

[jimbeam1]

if when those roads had been constructed culverts were incorporated in the construction with flood gates ( if needed ) to control water flow on an ' As and when needed basis'' there would be no need for the proposed infrastructure damage plan.

Certainly in England and also Europe and I am sure the America's such structures are normal sights.

I agree. So when they make these cuts in the roads (better late than never)they need to plan very carefully where to make them. So that when they make the repairs, as in bridges, they can also route the new storm drains that they will need to construct to link up with them? Thus giving the water an unhindered flow to the sea.

jb1

[lucien62]

Amazing Thailand. Get worse flooding since 50 years ago, wait until top Toyota guy gather experts to find solutions.

Isn't Toyota a car manufacturer ? How come this guy has a role in here ? Oh wait, money and power, ok got it.

Edited October 28, 2011 by lucien62

[anterian]

50 million cabic metres per second?

Can anyone imagine the size of such a pump?

It is not how much but how far, moving 50 million cubic metres at one micrometre per second is feasible

[jimbeam1]

This idea is preposterous. To be "studying" a spur of the moment plan just days ago proposed by Toyota to "cut" through five major roads is totally mind boggling. This is the best case of "thrashing about" that you could imagine. Kill off everything around, but let's make sure that Toyota gets back in business. The Japanese probably gave this Thai partner the "or else" and he's actually proposing it to the government. How much disaster bakup and recovery planning did Toyota do? Let's take a look at their plan for flood and disaster management. How much effort did Toyota invest in educating its employees on flood safety, diseases, electrocution risk? Let's get that plan approved and, protect Toyota's interest and see how many more Thais can get Cholera, Dengue, Leptostirosis, Typhoid..etc. Maybe Toyota will have a new line of ambulances, medical vehicles, evacuation vehicles, and trucks to save all the people they killed off in this preposterous last minute thrashing about proposal to save their business. Shame on them.

With the little amount of information given in the original post, I see no reason to assume that Toyota has come up with this idea just to insure that they get back into production. It is a proposal put forth and just maybe there is something to it or maybe it is not feasible. At least someone is out there making suggestions. Seems like a pretty harsh attack on Toyota without much to back up your accusations. Would you rather have them leave the country and put all the workers on the street?

Why is it everyone is always against big corporations? They bring jobs and development. If we did not have some of these big corporations we would not be flying in and out of Thailand, driving in cars or getting all the goods in Big C and other stores. I am happy with the products and servies these corporations bring.

Toyota have every right to make suggestions such as this. So that they can start production again asap. With the cost of all this flooding Thailand will surely need the revenue, that the large corporations bring in. The work force I feel will also be eager to get back to work. The government need to be very careful on this one. I don't know how much of this the likes of Toyota, Honda and other large company's will take before they decide to quit Thailand?

jb1

[animatic]

There was discussion of putting large drainage tunnels through Bangkok. If this is done it obviously needs to be under existing roads. If this emergency cut is done with the idea of permanent solution being part of it, then it makes some sense. It is clear there is not close to enough flow through to prevent a repeat of what we have now. So anything is helpful in the long run.

[DizietSma]

Basically they're cutting through the eastern flood barrier, which will drain the eastern floodwaters and possibly Ban Pakong river runoff, into Bangkok and away from the two Toyota plants in Chachaengsao.

If they mess it up, they'll flood Suwannabhumi, Lat Krabang, Bang Chan, and the eastern suburbs.

Given their track record on Navanakorn, Don Muang, et al., plus the fact the PM can't remember the road's name that's she's testing it on, plus they haven't told the BMA, I have zero confidence this will work. Plus we won't be able to evac east because the roads will be cut. All because of one large motor corporation. Thanks again Toyota!