Qantas Grounds Entire Fleet In 'Unbelievable' Step

[softgeorge]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

[webfact]

Qantas ordered to resume flights by tribunal ruling

An independent tribunal in Australia has ordered a permanent end to the industrial dispute that has grounded all Qantas flights.

Fair Work Australia issued its ruling after hearing evidence from the airline, unions and government at an emergency session in Melbourne.

Qantas had wanted the ruling and said it expected some flights could now resume within hours.

Nearly 70,000 people have been affected by flight cancellations in 22 nations. [more...]

Full story: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-15513219

-- BBC 2011-10-31

[KunMatt]

That wage is the 'maximum' one can earn. It doesn't state what hours and what is expected. It doesn't even say if anyone actually earns that amount. A total beat up to make it sound more than what it really is. You will find that the salary quoted will actually include the cost of the flights to and from the rig as well. A quick google search and you will soon find the article isn't exactly being entirely truthful.

Yes you are right and I never said anyone was earning 500k, the whole point of me posting that link was to prove to some other guy who said I was lying about union members earning 300k where I am.

[webfact]

Planes set to fly again – but what now for Qantas?

Qantas planes are set to return to the air today after Fairwork Australia ruled to terminate an industrial dispute that grounded the airline over the weekend.

The extraordinary action on Saturday by Qantas chief executive Alan Joyce to ground the planes affected more than 68,000 passengers worldwide. Qantas and the three unions involved will now have 21 days to resolve their differences through mediation.

Roy Green, Dean of UTS Business School at the University of Technology, Sydney looks at how it came to this and what now for Qantas.

Read the full FWA decision here

Full story: http://theconversation.edu.au/planes-set-to-fly-again-but-what-now-for-qantas-4089

-- theconversation.edu.au 2011-10-31

[bdenner]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

You seem to be very one eyed here! Didn't mention that the unions had to withdraw as well.

[Logarhythm]

Is this true? That's some sick money. That job should pay, what, $50,000, $55,000 maybe, right?

Mate, I work in a mostly unionised industry in Australia for a company that is non union and what the union guys get is shocking. Even cleaners here get over AUD$300,000 a year for making my bed and some of them are 18 year old kids.

What is also shocking is the behaviour and attitude of the union workers. I have never met any group of people who get paid so much money for such little work and have conditions so good but yet bitch and complain about everything like it is some massive hardship. The ridiculous demands and strikes they throw at every opportunity (basically because it extends the job) would make any regular hard working Joe elsewhere in the word sick if they could see how these people act.

I'm glad Qantas is not putting up with it, good on them, hopefully it shows these cashed up bogans which side their bread is buttered on and gives them a bit of a reality check.

and just what is it that you do that affords you the pleasure of having someone make your bed for you each morning. Maids earning over 300K AUD sorry but now you are really blowing wind up my a#@e

If you do not know what you are talking about then don't flap your mouth without researching it first.

http://www.heraldsun...6-1226027779689

Since when was anything written in the Herald Sun reputable?

[Logarhythm]

What industry is it that pays 300,000 dollars a year to 18 year olds for making beds?

An industry that has been held to ransom and squeezed to death by unions

http://www.heraldsun...6-1226027779689

A few oil companies have packed up and gone back to West Africa, after their projects were destroyed by the union's actions and strikes. If you were working in it you would not be at all surprised.

Oh, those poor, poor oil companies. It's so sad seeing them struggling to make ends meet.

[Wallaby]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

You seem to be very one eyed here! Didn't mention that the unions had to withdraw as well.

I think you are missing the point. The unions didn't want to strike, they wanted negotiations. Qantas would not negotiate so the unions had less then 8 hours rolling stop work (strikes).

The Tribunal has ordered both sides back to the negotiating table. So the unions have got what they wanted, Qantas to enter negotiations.

I suppose you could say the unions have also been ordered to withdraw, but that was the idea wasn't it? Qantas negotiates and the unions withdraw strike action.

[softgeorge]

Just watching the ABC news on this and they were interviewing stranded passengers in BKK, apparently some 3,500 tourists from around the world enroute to Australia could still be stranded in BKK until Wenesday. One poor girl from sweden was in tears she had a 7 day holiday planned in Aus starting yesterday, Sunday and now this has been totally destroyed by Qantas management as she has been allocated a flight on Wednesday night. Her holiday reduced to 48 hours thanks to Qantas Management. There would be thousands of people around the world who had saved all year for a holiday just to see it evaporate into thin air thanks to the heartless act of the worlds worst airline.

Great news for the Tourism Authority of Thailand tho, they can claim tourist numbers are still up during the floods and the hotels are making a killing also. Qantas is paying $250 AUD per night for hotel rooms. ( 8,124.48 Baht per night per room)

[gerry1011]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

You seem to be very one eyed here! Didn't mention that the unions had to withdraw as well.

"Correspondents say the ruling is likely to be seen as a victory for Qantas, which has been seeking to end long-running disputes with three unions, and for the government, which wanted the stand-off resolved quickly" (BBC News Asia-Pacific)...

[Logarhythm]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

You seem to be very one eyed here! Didn't mention that the unions had to withdraw as well.

"Correspondents say the ruling is likely to be seen as a victory for Qantas, which has been seeking to end long-running disputes with three unions, and for the government, which wanted the stand-off resolved quickly" (BBC News Asia-Pacific)...

I saw the Qantas CEO on TV this morning. He's painting himself as a victim.

[saintofsilence]

THE union representing Qantas baggage handlers and ground crew is considering appealing a decision to halt industrial action for the next 21 days.

Read more: http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/national/twu-to-consider-appealing-decision/story-e6frfku9-1226181305434#ixzz1cKCbgC4X

[DocN]

>sigh< ok...so the Union wanted 80% higher salaries. I have no idea, if that is true, but you all know, how the game is played, don't you?! They want 80, Quantas offers 3, they go down to 60, Quantas offer 3,5...and in the end, they settle with a raise that barely covers inflation and rising food prices! At the same time, the airline is making profit in the billions and their CEO and the higher management is thinking "80% raise sounds good...let's have it" and reward themselves for sacking 1000 people for financial reasons and move the whole operation to SEA, where labor costs are even cheaper.

All you union- bashers disgust me.

[bkkjames]

Well its back flying today so thread over.

[saintofsilence]

If unions were't so greedy they could stay in Australia I think you would find most Australians disagree with jobs going overseas.

On Australia network yesterday they stated polls indicated 60 percent of people were in support of the action Qantas took.

[zorro1]

Well its back flying today so thread over.

Maybe no just yet, still a few hurdles and rumors pax have been removed from Singapore - syd flight. It appears QAN CEO wants Casa to approve operations but Casa was about to issue a safety warning before the grounding and the CEO knew it . This new Ceo sure knows how to play hard ball..

3:11pm Live: As Qantas gets set to fly again, union objects to Fair Work Australia order to negotiate.

http://www.smh.com.au/travel/live-coverage-qantas-ordered-back-in-the-air-20111031-1mqtm.html

[Logarhythm]

>sigh< ok...so the Union wanted 80% higher salaries. I have no idea, if that is true, but you all know, how the game is played, don't you?! They want 80, Quantas offers 3, they go down to 60, Quantas offer 3,5...and in the end, they settle with a raise that barely covers inflation and rising food prices! At the same time, the airline is making profit in the billions and their CEO and the higher management is thinking "80% raise sounds good...let's have it" and reward themselves for sacking 1000 people for financial reasons and move the whole operation to SEA, where labor costs are even cheaper.

All you union- bashers disgust me.

Well said, sir!

[soloman]

Joyce doesn't give a nuts about QANTAS. He is just wanting to strip it down and receive whatever performance bonus he has negotiated to strip it down. Much like the waterfront workers strike, except in that case the waterfront workers were far more militant beforehand. he is looking to get rid of staff and re hire overseas workers at a pittance.

I am glad that someone here knows the motives of Qantas' Alan Joyce. It is ALL about replacing Australian employees with cheaper overseas employees. And Qantas used the same firm of solicitors as used in the Patricks waterfront lockout!

Just have a look at the cabin crew on Jetstar (A subsidiary of Qantas, formed with the idea in mind of hiring cheap overseas staff). The overseas cabin crew staff are paid a mere fraction of what the Australian cabin crew are paid. All on individual contracts, so I can imagine what they will be offered when it is time to renew their contracts.

[ozzydom]

>sigh< ok...so the Union wanted 80% higher salaries. I have no idea, if that is true, but you all know, how the game is played, don't you?! They want 80, Quantas offers 3, they go down to 60, Quantas offer 3,5...and in the end, they settle with a raise that barely covers inflation and rising food prices! At the same time, the airline is making profit in the billions and their CEO and the higher management is thinking "80% raise sounds good...let's have it" and reward themselves for sacking 1000 people for financial reasons and move the whole operation to SEA, where labor costs are even cheaper.

All you union- bashers disgust me.

Well said, sir!

Would you care to provide a link regarding the " 80% " pay rise you mention.

Data released today state that the Pilots have been negotiating for a 2.5% increase and the other unions 5% per year for 3 years,a far cry from your purported 80%.

[saintofsilence]

Joyce doesn't give a nuts about QANTAS. He is just wanting to strip it down and receive whatever performance bonus he has negotiated to strip it down. Much like the waterfront workers strike, except in that case the waterfront workers were far more militant beforehand. he is looking to get rid of staff and re hire overseas workers at a pittance.

I am glad that someone here knows the motives of Qantas' Alan Joyce. It is ALL about replacing Australian employees with cheaper overseas employees. And Qantas used the same firm of solicitors as used in the Patricks waterfront lockout!

Just have a look at the cabin crew on Jetstar (A subsidiary of Qantas, formed with the idea in mind of hiring cheap overseas staff). The overseas cabin crew staff are paid a mere fraction of what the Australian cabin crew are paid. All on individual contracts, so I can imagine what they will be offered when it is time to renew their contracts.

Jetstar is not just Australian they have Jetstar Asia and the market is very competitive all companies have to make a profit and if Australians demand to much they miss out.

How many people have Australian televisions in theirs homes ?

No one because Australia cannot compete.

[DocN]

>sigh< ok...so the Union wanted 80% higher salaries. I have no idea, if that is true, but you all know, how the game is played, don't you?! They want 80, Quantas offers 3, they go down to 60, Quantas offer 3,5...and in the end, they settle with a raise that barely covers inflation and rising food prices! At the same time, the airline is making profit in the billions and their CEO and the higher management is thinking "80% raise sounds good...let's have it" and reward themselves for sacking 1000 people for financial reasons and move the whole operation to SEA, where labor costs are even cheaper.

All you union- bashers disgust me.

Well said, sir!

Would you care to provide a link regarding the " 80% " pay rise you mention.

Data released today state that the Pilots have been negotiating for a 2.5% increase and the other unions 5% per year for 3 years,a far cry from your purported 80%.

No, you misunderstood me. I have just read that somewhere on the thread and I just used that number (that I find very hard to believe) to make a point clear. I have no idea, where that number comes from...I guess, some union-bashers sick fantasy.

[smokie36]

>sigh< ok...so the Union wanted 80% higher salaries. I have no idea, if that is true, but you all know, how the game is played, don't you?! They want 80, Quantas offers 3, they go down to 60, Quantas offer 3,5...and in the end, they settle with a raise that barely covers inflation and rising food prices! At the same time, the airline is making profit in the billions and their CEO and the higher management is thinking "80% raise sounds good...let's have it" and reward themselves for sacking 1000 people for financial reasons and move the whole operation to SEA, where labor costs are even cheaper.

All you union- bashers disgust me.

Well said, sir!

Would you care to provide a link regarding the " 80% " pay rise you mention.

Data released today state that the Pilots have been negotiating for a 2.5% increase and the other unions 5% per year for 3 years,a far cry from your purported 80%.

No, you misunderstood me. I have just read that somewhere on the thread and I just used that number (that I find very hard to believe) to make a point clear. I have no idea, where that number comes from...I guess, some union-bashers sick fantasy.

You misread it. The stated amount was 80c per hour!

[DocN]

"You misread it. The stated amount was 80c per hour! "

Oooooops...still I made my point clear...I hope!?

[Wallaby]

Joyce doesn't give a nuts about QANTAS. He is just wanting to strip it down and receive whatever performance bonus he has negotiated to strip it down. Much like the waterfront workers strike, except in that case the waterfront workers were far more militant beforehand. he is looking to get rid of staff and re hire overseas workers at a pittance.

I am glad that someone here knows the motives of Qantas' Alan Joyce. It is ALL about replacing Australian employees with cheaper overseas employees. And Qantas used the same firm of solicitors as used in the Patricks waterfront lockout!

Just have a look at the cabin crew on Jetstar (A subsidiary of Qantas, formed with the idea in mind of hiring cheap overseas staff). The overseas cabin crew staff are paid a mere fraction of what the Australian cabin crew are paid. All on individual contracts, so I can imagine what they will be offered when it is time to renew their contracts.

Jetstar is not just Australian they have Jetstar Asia and the market is very competitive all companies have to make a profit and if Australians demand to much they miss out.

How many people have Australian televisions in theirs homes ?

No one because Australia cannot compete.

Are you trying to tell me that Qantas isn't making a profit? If Qantas is not so profitable then why did Joyce get himself a nice little pay rise? Seems you are happy enough that management are paid 'exorbitant' wages but we can't have the workers earning a wage now can we. Perhaps the Qantas board should be paid similar Thai wages if they are so concerned about being competitive.

Jestar is owned by Qantas as is their budget carrier. Qantas itself is not a budget carrier. Joyce was head of Jetstar and now wants Qantas to be like it, cheap and nasty but still at premium Qantas cost. Qantas also want to use Jetstar pilots.

If I was to fly Qantas every again I would expect the pilots and cabin crew etc to be on more wages and better trained than the budget airlines. That is why I'm paying more.

If I want a budget flight I'll book with a budget airline.

If Qantas wants to be budget then go for it, but don't go calling yourself the national airline and expect special treatment from the govt like they do now.

I guess Qantas and Jetstar will actually be one as there won't be a difference. Those that fly Qantas will be paying more because of the name only.

[waza]

We all know that Joyce is manipulating events to achieve the objectives of moving the Quantas overseas operations to asia, where cheap labour and lacks regulations will boost profits. This behaviour will continue til we have the Flying Kwai.

[outofoz]

QANTAS has the resolution it wanted.... for now. By pushing the action they did they have forced a ruling by the court, and management and the unions have a few weeks to arbitrate and reach a compromise.

This again is good for management. They don't want any negotiation or compromise. They simply want to change the way the airline is run. Reduce labour costs and make a bigger profit. When no compromise can be reached management will blame the unions.

Joyce holds up well in televised interviews. His PR team have made an excellent plan of attack and they have stuck with it and orchestrated it in a most clever fashion.

QANTAS reducing its labour costs might not mean one cent of savings for the customer. It will probably mean more profit for the shareholders and more remuneration for the board and management.

The reason QANTAS has such a valuable brand is because of its workers and the pride that many once had in the brand they worked for.

Why shouldn't the workers receive a fair cut of the pie? Does anyone here seriously think that Joyce is worth $5 million a year? That any of their management team is worth a million a year?

[waza]

QANTAS has the resolution it wanted.... for now. By pushing the action they did they have forced a ruling by the court, and management and the unions have a few weeks to arbitrate and reach a compromise.

This again is good for management. They don't want any negotiation or compromise. They simply want to change the way the airline is run. Reduce labour costs and make a bigger profit. When no compromise can be reached management will blame the unions.

Joyce holds up well in televised interviews. His PR team have made an excellent plan of attack and they have stuck with it and orchestrated it in a most clever fashion.

QANTAS reducing its labour costs might not mean one cent of savings for the customer. It will probably mean more profit for the shareholders and more remuneration for the board and management.

The reason QANTAS has such a valuable brand is because of its workers and the pride that many once had in the brand they worked for.

Why shouldn't the workers receive a fair cut of the pie? Does anyone here seriously think that Joyce is worth $5 million a year? That any of their management team is worth a million a year?

I think no one is worth 5 mill a year. But it shows how much value Quantas management put on a hatchet man like Joyce to get the job done.

[TAWP]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

You seem to be very one eyed here! Didn't mention that the unions had to withdraw as well.

Funny seeing that some of the more rabid Red Shirt supporters are also the rabid Union supporters - and lack the same ability to see the facts when it stares them in the face.

SoftGeorge rewrote the ruling as a win for the Unions, when most observers see it as the opposite.

[softgeorge]

The airline was ordered to put an end to its proposed lockout after Fair Work Australia found it would cause too much damage to the national economy.

Fair Work Australia made its ruling at two o'clock this morning after a marathon hearing over 12 hours.

Good to see big business getting a decent kick in the rear end. Maybe now Qantas will start acting like adults and talk to it's workers instead of taking thier bat and ball and storming home in a huff well they have been told to go back and play nice.

You seem to be very one eyed here! Didn't mention that the unions had to withdraw as well.

Funny seeing that some of the more rabid Red Shirt supporters are also the rabid Union supporters - and lack the same ability to see the facts when it stares them in the face.

SoftGeorge rewrote the ruling as a win for the Unions, when most observers see it as the opposite.

Where did I rewrite the ruling?? What have I said that is any different and why does that make me a raging uncontrollable (rabid) red shirt supporter. The unions did NOT and I repeat DID NOT ground the fleet it was the Management and the Management were ordered by the fair work authority to put the planes back in the air. The Unions were not told to put the planes back. If showing support for the working class in Australia makes me a redshirt then so be it. If you or your wife worked for a company in Thailand and you were told that the company is moving offshore and given her job to an aussie I am sure you and your wife would have something to say. Qantas is run by foreigners who's aim is to strip it down and turn it into an Asian airline and when it is done they will accept thier multi million dollar golden handshake pack up thier goods and shackles and return home. The blood and guts of the company the workers will be seeking welfare trying to feed and clothe thier kids and watch thier homes pulled from under them. I guess you are 100% for this.

P,s for the record I am not a redshirt supporter nor do I support the rich elite yellow shirts.

[TAWP]

Guess what, if they didn't have outrages claims they wouldn't be in a position to 'watch thier homes pulled from under them'.