Arnold - the Governator of California will soon decide if the lovely 'Tookie' Williams who was convicted of slaughtering 4, count 'em 4, customers at a 7-11 with shotgun blasts to the back of their heads  - will die of lethel injection tomorrow.

Decision made

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4523502.stm

"After studying the evidence, searching the history, listening to the arguments and wrestling with the profound consequences, I could find no justification for granting clemency," Arnold Schwarzenegger said

"Stanley Williams insists he is innocent, and that he will not and should not apologise or otherwise atone for the murders of the four victims in this case. Without apology and atonement for these senseless and brutal killings, there can be no redemption," he said.

"Based on the cumulative weight of the evidence, there is no reason to second-guess the jury's decision of guilt or raise significant doubts or serious reservations about Williams' conviction and death sentence," the governor added.

Yep...no loss there.

As said before, I'm against the death penalty. But the case with "Tookie" I really don't know about.

If he really is a born again, God-fearing, great friendly superhero, why not admit to the crimes he committed? The evidence against him was pretty damning....

Saying that, now that he's dead, he'll never have the opportunity to come clean again...

Saying that, now that he's dead, he'll never have the opportunity to come clean again...

Well, he was given the opportunity to come "clean" for the past 25 years and never quite got around to it.

Saying that, now that he's dead, he'll never have the opportunity to come clean again...

Well, he was given the opportunity to come "clean" for the past 25 years and never quite got around to it.

Yep, and right upto the finish he showed no remorse or acceptance of his guilt, even after the overwhelming evidence.

Those convicted of murder, treason and some firearms offences share the same fate. There is no discretion for the presiding judge to lessen the penalty even if, as in Van's case, the convicted criminal shows remorse, provides information to police and appears to be a first offender.

Van only showed remorse after he was sentenced, he never provided info to the authorities at any time and was unco-operative on his arrest even when told it would have a bearing on his sentence, he was a first offender in Singapore...his criminal record in Australia was never disclosed.

Saying that, now that he's dead, he'll never have the opportunity to come clean again...

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Well, he was given the opportunity to come "clean" for the past 25 years and never quite got around to it.

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Yep, and right upto the finish he showed no remorse or acceptance of his guilt, even after the overwhelming evidence.

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I think all one has to do is read the Guv's response and compare with all the media spin, to get a feel for what this guy was really about:

http://www.governor.ca.gov/govsite/pdf/pre...y_Statement.pdf

That guy had 24 extra years of 3 hots and a cot. The people he murdered got none of that. They were executed for robbery of a pittance. Society says there was a price to pay and he paid it. Justice served ....... finally.

Saying that, now that he's dead, he'll never have the opportunity to come clean again...

Well, he was given the opportunity to come "clean" for the past 25 years and never quite got around to it.

Yep, and right upto the finish he showed no remorse or acceptance of his guilt, even after the overwhelming evidence.

I think all one has to do is read the Guv's response and compare with all the media spin, to get a feel for what this guy was really about:

http://www.governor.ca.gov/govsite/pdf/pre...y_Statement.pdf

That guy had 24 extra years of 3 hots and a cot. The people he murdered got none of that. They were executed for robbery of a pittance. Society says there was a price to pay and he paid it. Justice served ....... finally.

Probably not by coincidence, the movie "Redemption" starring Jamie Fox as Tookie Williams was aired on pay TV in Australia today.

As the title suggests the film strongly focussed on his changed attitude towards the gang culture in LA. He made videos and wrote a series of childrens books, that were published around the world, beseeching young, disadvantaged, black youths from following his path to death row. He spoke to groups of kids from his cell and brokered peace deals between notorious street gangs the Crips and Bloods which resulted in the saving of many lives.

He was nominated for Nobel prizes in the catagories of Peace and Literature in successive years.

Winifred Mandella visited him in prison to thank him for his books that apparently also struck a positive chord with black youth in South Africa.

He probably was quilty of the four murders for which he was sentenced to death, but perhaps in his case, there was room for second thoughts on the merits of wasting what he had become.

I am sure other posters here knew the full facts of the man, but chose not to muddy their personal views by fully informing readers.

The transcripts of Williams 1981 trial paint a disturbing picture of the former Crips gang leader, who was convicted of shooting four people to death with a shotgun during two robberies, later boasting about the gurgling sounds convenience store clerk Albert Owens made as he died.

During the trial, prosecutors say, Williams plotted to kill a sheriff's deputy and an accomplice who was expected to testify against him, then blow up a bus full of inmates with dynamite to escape in the resulting chaos.

After the jury read their guilty verdict Williams, according to transcripts, looked to jurors and mouthed: "I'm going to get each and every one of you motherf------."

-Reuters News

Saying that, now that he's dead, he'll never have the opportunity to come clean again...

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Well, he was given the opportunity to come "clean" for the past 25 years and never quite got around to it.

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Yep, and right upto the finish he showed no remorse or acceptance of his guilt, even after the overwhelming evidence.

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I think all one has to do is read the Guv's response and compare with all the media spin, to get a feel for what this guy was really about:

http://www.governor.ca.gov/govsite/pdf/pre...y_Statement.pdf

That guy had 24 extra years of 3 hots and a cot. The people he murdered got none of that. They were executed for robbery of a pittance. Society says there was a price to pay and he paid it. Justice served ....... finally.

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He probably was quilty of the four murders for which he was sentenced to death, but perhaps in his case, there was room for second thoughts on the merits of wasting what he had become.

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Your point is consistent with the governor's statement. In it, the governor clearly stated that if the deceased had taken accountability and responsibility for his actions, and shown remorse for the victims, then that may well have changed the his view on the clemency decision.

IMHO, failure to admit guilt and show remorse to the end was nothing more than a final act of defiance at the end of an entire life lived in defiance of established societal laws and societal norms.

I honestly believe that the guy had changed and had done something with his life over the past several years. But does all that make enough to dismiss violent senseless murders for no reason other than not wanting witnesses of $100 robberies? Hopefully this is now all sorted between him, his victims and their maker. The rest of us are yet to be judged.

"Actions speak louder than words". No excuse for what he did but some people just can't bring themselves to admit guilt. Over a period of 24 years in prison, he showed his remorse in the only way he could - by helping to reform youth all over the world by deterring them from a life of evil gang crimes. That was his admission of guilt. His Maker will decide now, whether he reformed or not!

Cheers for the link to the statement Spee.

Again, still not agreeing with the death penalty itself, there's very solid reasoning demonstrated in the statement - very difficult to argue with the facts as they are presented.

Unless he admitted guilt (or unless there was a radical re-think regarding the use of the death penalty), it was all really going to go one way...

I think that if someone believes that the death penalty is justified then if they are found guilty of a capital offence then they should be killed....but if they don't believe that the death penalty is justified then if they are found guilty of a capital offence then they should not be killed.

I think that if someone believes that the death penalty is justified then if they are found guilty of a capital offence then they should be killed....but if they don't believe that the death penalty is justified then if they are found guilty of a capital offence then they should not be killed.

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Now that will work great....

How about if you kill someone in commission of a crime you deserve the same?

I think that if someone believes that the death penalty is justified then if they are found guilty of a capital offence then they should be killed....but if they don't believe that the death penalty is justified then if they are found guilty of a capital offence then they should not be killed.

Now that will work great....

Chownah, did you really mean to write that, or are you fully laden with 12 Changs

What goes around comes around.

As you judge so shall ye be judged.

Karma

People who support the death penalty are sort of like accomplices to murder anyway.

What goes around comes around.

As you judge so shall ye be judged.

Karma

People who support the death penalty are sort of like accomplices to murder anyway.

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People who are against the death penalty are poofters!!!

People who support the death penalty are sort of like accomplices to murder anyway.

People who are against the death penalty are poofters!!!

Chownah, if you want to put it that way, in my view, people who don't support the death penalty, are sort of like accomplices to murder as well.

If just one person who has been so called "reformed", instead of being put to death, is allowed out of jail, to only go on to kill another innocent human being again. Then that is just as bad if not worse. This has happened before and could have been avoided i.e. by putting the convict to death in the first place.

What goes around comes around.

As you judge so shall ye be judged.

Karma

People who support the death penalty are sort of like accomplices to murder anyway.

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People who are against the death penalty are poofters!!!

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Perhaps your analytical skills are slipping....just a few posts ago I said that I was in favor of the death penalty....didn't I?....seems to me I said I thought some people should be executed...didn't I?

People who support the death penalty are sort of like accomplices to murder anyway.

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People who are against the death penalty are poofters!!!

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Chownah, if you want to put it that way, in my view, people who don't support the death penalty, are sort of like accomplices to murder as well.

If just one person who has been so called "reformed", instead of being put to death, is allowed out of jail, to only go on to kill another innocent human being again. Then that is just as bad if not worse. This has happened before and could have been avoided i.e. by putting the convict to death in the first place.

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yourpostisnotworthacapitalletteroraspaceorpunctuationinresponse

People who support the death penalty are sort of like accomplices to murder anyway.

People who are against the death penalty are poofters!!!

Chownah, if you want to put it that way, in my view, people who don't support the death penalty, are sort of like accomplices to murder as well.

If just one person who has been so called "reformed", instead of being put to death, is allowed out of jail, to only go on to kill another innocent human being again. Then that is just as bad if not worse. This has happened before and could have been avoided i.e. by putting the convict to death in the first place.

yourpostisnotworthacapitalletteroraspaceorpunctuationinresponse

Neither was your previous 2 posts really but at least i gave you the respect of posting, IMO a valid, legible response

On a tangent -

How many of you death penalty supporters feel that executions should be done in public, as they once were?

Show of hands? 

Heck...not only done in public but on prime-time television too.

On a tangent -

How many of you death penalty supporters feel that executions should be done in public, as they once were?

Show of hands? 

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Heck...not only done in public but on prime-time television too.

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And they should be very graphic and videotaped and then sent to any country that that we have problems with that doubt Amewrica's insanity. Psychological warfare.

On a tangent -

How many of you death penalty supporters feel that executions should be done in public, as they once were?

Show of hands? 

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Heck...not only done in public but on prime-time television too.

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Hands up those who watched hostage video beheadings on the internet?

On a tangent -

How many of you death penalty supporters feel that executions should be done in public, as they once were?

Show of hands? 

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Heck...not only done in public but on prime-time television too.

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Hands up those who watched hostage video beheadings on the internet?

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I could not watch those.

Another Holy Warrior Snuff Film

Michael Moore calls them “Minute Men.” Democratic Rep. John Murtha wants us to differentiate between them and “terrorists.”

Meanwhile, the Iraqi mujahideen have released another snuff film. Video of US Hostage Killing Posted on Internet.

Baghdad, 19 Dec. (AKI) - "The Islamic Army in Iraq has released a video which it says shows the killing of Ronald Schulz, a 40-year-old American security consultant taken hostage in Iraq earlier this month. It had already announced that he had been killed in a statement issued on 8 December, which said pictures of the killing would be released later."

Gee, ya think the Death Penalty just might be warranted in the above?

Ogrish - just pisses me off I don't go there else I fear I might go on an arab shi*e kicking spree.

Another Holy Warrior Snuff Film

Michael Moore calls them “Minute Men.” Democratic Rep. John Murtha wants us to differentiate between them and “terrorists.”

Meanwhile, the Iraqi mujahideen have released another snuff film. Video of US Hostage Killing Posted on Internet.

Baghdad, 19 Dec. (AKI) - "The Islamic Army in Iraq has released a video which it says shows the killing of Ronald Schulz, a 40-year-old American security consultant taken hostage in Iraq earlier this month. It had already announced that he had been killed in a statement issued on 8 December, which said pictures of the killing would be released later."

Gee, ya think the Death Penalty just might be warranted in the above?

Ogrish - just pisses me off I don't go there else I fear I might go on an arab shi*e kicking spree. 

These are the type of instances i was talking about before. These are the type of crimes that must surely warrant the death penalty

But if we captured one of them we certainly wouldn't want to subject one of these peaceful beings to waterboarding or sleep deprivation to find out where the other captives are being held now would we Senator McCain?

Another Holy Warrior Snuff Film

Michael Moore calls them “Minute Men.” Democratic Rep. John Murtha wants us to differentiate between them and “terrorists.”

Meanwhile, the Iraqi mujahideen have released another snuff film. Video of US Hostage Killing Posted on Internet.

Baghdad, 19 Dec. (AKI) - "The Islamic Army in Iraq has released a video which it says shows the killing of Ronald Schulz, a 40-year-old American security consultant taken hostage in Iraq earlier this month. It had already announced that he had been killed in a statement issued on 8 December, which said pictures of the killing would be released later."

Gee, ya think the Death Penalty just might be warranted in the above?

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Did you watch it Boon Mee??

Another Holy Warrior Snuff Film

Michael Moore calls them “Minute Men.” Democratic Rep. John Murtha wants us to differentiate between them and “terrorists.”

Meanwhile, the Iraqi mujahideen have released another snuff film. Video of US Hostage Killing Posted on Internet.

Baghdad, 19 Dec. (AKI) - "The Islamic Army in Iraq has released a video which it says shows the killing of Ronald Schulz, a 40-year-old American security consultant taken hostage in Iraq earlier this month. It had already announced that he had been killed in a statement issued on 8 December, which said pictures of the killing would be released later."

Gee, ya think the Death Penalty just might be warranted in the above?

Did you watch it Boon Mee??

Just the intro - too disgusting...