UK pensions

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, partington said:

If that's the case then I'm wrong and really don't understand it,  though I thought that I did.

 

I was basing this on the publicity about people who tried to top up their pensions by back-paying for additional years up to 35 before 2016 who found that this made no difference to their pension amount and had to try to get it refunded.

 

This was in the papers a few months back, e.g.

 

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pensions/article-5470181/Savers-wasting-money-trying-boost-incomes.html

 

"The state pension top-up fiasco: Savers are paying to boost their incomes only to find payouts don't rise and they can't get a refund

     •Savers pay up to £2,000 extra to boost weekly pension payouts

     •They say they are being led to believe they have gaps in their NI records

     •But many find the payment makes no difference to their state pension at all

[...]The voluntary Class 3 NI contributions scheme lets you fill in gaps in your NI record from the past six years (in rare cases, ten) by paying a lump sum. 

 

The cost should be a maximum of £741 a year, which buys £237 a year income for life. [...]

But a quirk in the system means savers are able to pay into the scheme even if it doesn't boost their state pension.

 

The confusion has arisen due to the arrival of the single-tier state pension, worth £159.55 a week, in 2016

To qualify for this amount, savers need 35 years of full NI contributions. By comparison, they only required 30 to get the full basic £122.30-a-week pension under the old scheme. 

 

To ensure no pensioner loses out, the Government works out if you would have been better off on the old scheme. If it finds you would have been, and you already had the full 30 years of NI contributions by April 2016, any attempt to boost your pension will be futile."

 

I accept that your case means I'm wrong though. Perhaps if you got to 35 years contributions before April 2016 this counts, but back-paying to fill up gaps that would have got you to 35 years before April 2016 doesn't count?

The government white paper , published during the enactment of the pension act , gives a good explanation of the transition arrangements , with worked examples

[kwilco]

UK has some of the lowest pensions in the Westen World and now with Brexit, state or otherwise, expats can expect a long tortuous downward slide.

 

hey, but at leat they'll be "free"

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, kwilco said:

UK has some of the lowest pensions in the Westen World and now with Brexit, state or otherwise, expats can expect a long tortuous downward slide

 

 

Couldn't help yourself could you.....sneaking Brexit in...

 

 

My pensions will not slide anywhere after Brexit.

[bert bloggs]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Couldn't help yourself could you.....sneaking Brexit in...

 

 

My pensions will not slide anywhere after Brexit.

I liked the previous post , not really looking at the Brexit bit ,but your right Brexit will make no difference whatever .

[topt]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'm in a similar situation (30 years under old system), so I asked and they said only paying for years under the new system will increase my pension.

Yes - I am in the same situation.

2 hours ago, KittenKong said:

I've not looked at it carefully as it doesnt apply to me, but I think it is indeed to do with trying to buy top-up years in the new regime when you are in fact missing years in the old regime.

 

There is one other thing that may apply: if you were contracted out of SERPS at any time you may find that your new state pension takes that into account and will be lower than expected. You cant top that up either.

Yes you can if you have enough time left/missed and future years. Even though like BritManToo I have paid 30 years due to contracting out I would need to pay another 8 years of contributions (but not including any incomplete years before 2016) to get the full pension.

[topt]

3 hours ago, partington said:

I accept that your case means I'm wrong though. Perhaps if you got to 35 years contributions before April 2016 this counts, but back-paying to fill up gaps that would have got you to 35 years before April 2016 doesn't count?

Absolutely correct unfortunately.

I have some incomplete years showing where I would have to pay very little to make up prior to 2016 but because I already had 30 years at that point these would not count in any way towards increasing my pension entitlement. This is where all the over-payment issues you mentioned and that the Daily Mail has been publicising have come in.

 

I guess this is why they now tell you to talk to an advisor before trying to make payments - one rang me back in Thailand last year. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

Absolutely correct unfortunately.
I have some incomplete years showing where I would have to pay very little to make up prior to 2016 but because I already had 30 years at that point these would not count in any way towards increasing my pension entitlement. This is where all the over-payment issues you mentioned and that the Daily Mail has been publicising have come in.
 
I guess this is why they now tell you to talk to an advisor before trying to make payments - one rang me back in Thailand last year. 

Interesting !

I made 41 years uninterrupted NI payments but still need another 6 years to achieve full SP ( currently £26 short of the £165 ).

I assumed it was because I worked oseas some years and claimed my tax back , but would that have any effect on my SP ?
After all it’s NI not tax that’s important isn’t it ?

[topt]

1 minute ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Interesting !

I made 41 years uninterrupted NI payments but still need another 6 years to achieve full SP ( currently £26 short of the £165 ).

I assumed it was because I worked oseas some years and claimed my tax back , but would that have any effect on my SP ?
After all it’s NI not tax that’s important isn’t it ?

My guess would be it is because you were contracted out at some point. Tax would make no difference.

Presumably you have checked your entitlement online and requested a statement - the statement should tell you?

[kwilco]

Brexit has already reduced the value of pensions for expats...many are leaving not just Thailand but Spain and other countries where Brits thought they could retire.

[Andrew Dwyer]

My guess would be it is because you were contracted out at some point. Tax would make no difference.
Presumably you have checked your entitlement online and requested a statement - the statement should tell you?

I assume you mean a statement as in the following photos.




And yes I was contracted out , would that be the reason ??

[Expattaff1308]

If you were contracted out at any point Yes it would affect your Pension

[topt]

45 minutes ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

And yes I was contracted out , would that be the reason ??

As Expattaff1308 says above.

For example my forecast, with 30  years and contracted out for many years, shows me with less than £90 a week at retirement unless I want to pay top ups.

[Jim P]

Quick question. I intended to retire to Thailand in the next few months, I will be 56. Making two assumptions, one that the state pension still exists when I am 67 and two that I am still living in Thailand at that age. Is my pension frozen at the rate I have accrued from the day I start receiving it at 67 or is frozen at the rate when I leave the country at 56?

[ivor bigun]

Quick question. I intended to retire to Thailand in the next few months, I will be 56. Making two assumptions, one that the state pension still exists when I am 67 and two that I am still living in Thailand at that age. Is my pension frozen at the rate I have accrued from the day I start receiving it at 67 or is frozen at the rate when I leave the country at 56?

67.if you live here B)

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[billd766]

I organised my state pension to come via the SWIFT network which as I understand it comes directly to my Thai bank account.

 

All three pensions are set to do the same thing.

 

My company pension takes 2 working days (bank and public holidays plus the weekends I have ignored).

My RAF pension takes pretty much the same time.

 

Both of these are shown in my bank statements as international transfers.

 

My state pension takes 4 or 5 working days to arrive and is shown as a domestic money transfer.

 

It seems as though the pension people transfer to Citibank UK where it appears to stay overnight, it then gets transferred to Citibank Thailand where it stops once again. Citibank Thailand then transfer it to Kasikorn band central head office as a domestic baht transfer on the BTN or Baht Net system. It eventually gets put into my account during the working day.

 

Is there any other bank transfer system that the state pension uses so that I can try them and bypass this ludicrous system?

[denby45]

58 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I organised my state pension to come via the SWIFT network which as I understand it comes directly to my Thai bank account.

 

All three pensions are set to do the same thing.

 

My company pension takes 2 working days (bank and public holidays plus the weekends I have ignored).

My RAF pension takes pretty much the same time.

 

Both of these are shown in my bank statements as international transfers.

 

My state pension takes 4 or 5 working days to arrive and is shown as a domestic money transfer.

 

It seems as though the pension people transfer to Citibank UK where it appears to stay overnight, it then gets transferred to Citibank Thailand where it stops once again. Citibank Thailand then transfer it to Kasikorn band central head office as a domestic baht transfer on the BTN or Baht Net system. It eventually gets put into my account during the working day.

 

Is there any other bank transfer system that the state pension uses so that I can try them and bypass this ludicrous system?

You could have them all paid into a single account in the UK. Cost would be zero. Then arrange a standing order with Transferwise which generally give the best exchange rates and it takes a couple of days to get to your Kasikorn account.

 

Easy peasy.

 

 

Den 

[billd766]

14 hours ago, denby45 said:

You could have them all paid into a single account in the UK. Cost would be zero. Then arrange a standing order with Transferwise which generally give the best exchange rates and it takes a couple of days to get to your Kasikorn account.

 

Easy peasy.

 

 

Den 

 

Thanks for the info Den but not quite so easy peasy for me.

 

I closed my UK bank account a few years ago which makes it a bit tricky.

 

I forgot to put that bit in on my original post. 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

I organised my state pension to come via the SWIFT network which as I understand it comes directly to my Thai bank account.

 

All three pensions are set to do the same thing.

 

My company pension takes 2 working days (bank and public holidays plus the weekends I have ignored).

My RAF pension takes pretty much the same time.

 

Both of these are shown in my bank statements as international transfers.

 

My state pension takes 4 or 5 working days to arrive and is shown as a domestic money transfer.

 

It seems as though the pension people transfer to Citibank UK where it appears to stay overnight, it then gets transferred to Citibank Thailand where it stops once again. Citibank Thailand then transfer it to Kasikorn band central head office as a domestic baht transfer on the BTN or Baht Net system. It eventually gets put into my account during the working day.

 

Is there any other bank transfer system that the state pension uses so that I can try them and bypass this ludicrous system?

You will have seen me post this before Bill but I get my state pension on a Friday and when I was having it paid in Thailand, from Aug 2012 until the referendum, I received it in my Thai bank between 08.30 and 09.00 on the Friday morning, only ever disturbed by bank holidays.

If they can do it for some then they should be able to do it for everyone. My suspicion is that there is something not quite right with the way your account is set up at the DWP. I am aware that dealing with a UK bank could be problematic for you so my suggestion would be to go along to Kasikorn, or any other bank, and open another account. You would then need to fill in the relevant payment page from the claim form and send it off to the DWP, then your account would be reset.

I think the funds are transferred from Citibank to BOT and then distributed via bahtnet. If everything is correct then it should be automatic routing through to the branch. I suspect yours is failing somewhere along the line and then having to be dealt with manually. 

[billd766]

6 hours ago, sandyf said:

You will have seen me post this before Bill but I get my state pension on a Friday and when I was having it paid in Thailand, from Aug 2012 until the referendum, I received it in my Thai bank between 08.30 and 09.00 on the Friday morning, only ever disturbed by bank holidays.

If they can do it for some then they should be able to do it for everyone. My suspicion is that there is something not quite right with the way your account is set up at the DWP. I am aware that dealing with a UK bank could be problematic for you so my suggestion would be to go along to Kasikorn, or any other bank, and open another account. You would then need to fill in the relevant payment page from the claim form and send it off to the DWP, then your account would be reset.

I think the funds are transferred from Citibank to BOT and then distributed via bahtnet. If everything is correct then it should be automatic routing through to the branch. I suspect yours is failing somewhere along the line and then having to be dealt with manually. 

 

Thanks Sandy.

 

I have a sole account that the pension can be paid into and I will chase that up in the next few days.

[Jip99]

9 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Thanks for the info Den but not quite so easy peasy for me.

 

I closed my UK bank account a few years ago which makes it a bit tricky.

 

I forgot to put that bit in on my original post. 

 

 

I imagine that the DWP would pay in to a Transferwise Borderless account ?

[denby45]

1 hour ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I imagine that the DWP would pay in to a Transferwise Borderless account ?

I doubt if they would do that. The account they pay into would surely have to be in your name.Although they won't entertain opening an account in a UK bank if you are non resident an alternative would be to open an account in IOM or Jersey with one of the big banks. I am sure the DWP would have no objection to paying into one of those banks.

 

 

Den

[Jip99]

6 hours ago, denby45 said:

I doubt if they would do that. The account they pay into would surely have to be in your name.Although they won't entertain opening an account in a UK bank if you are non resident an alternative would be to open an account in IOM or Jersey with one of the big banks. I am sure the DWP would have no objection to paying into one of those banks.

 

 

Den

 

 

It is in your name Den , with a 23- sort code and your individual account number.

 

Private pension providers pay to TW.

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Thanks Sandy.

 

I have a sole account that the pension can be paid into and I will chase that up in the next few days.

I changed my account following the referendum to the UK, I go every year and now just keep the money I need for the trip in the UK. This is the form you need make the change. It would be adviseable to send something in print with account number and codes just in case the data entry clerk misreads a digit you have written, if you can populate the form on your computer so much the better. Good luck.

 

[sandyf]

11 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Thanks Sandy.

 

I have a sole account that the pension can be paid into and I will chase that up in the next few days.

Bill, something to note. The branch code need to be shown separately, although integral to a Thai account it is not normal for international transfers. The branch is part of an IBAN code and the last 3 characters of a SWIFT code, but as Thailand does not use IBAN and only uses 8 character SWIFT codes for retail banking it is necessary for it to be entered separately.

As far as I am aware on Thai accounts the branch code is the first 3 digits of the account number.

I suspect that after reaching Thailand the SWIFT code and branch are merged for routing. If your existing branch code was missing or incorrect the payment would get held up at the Kasikorn main branch which is as far as the SWIFT code would take it.

[billd766]

12 hours ago, denby45 said:

I doubt if they would do that. The account they pay into would surely have to be in your name.Although they won't entertain opening an account in a UK bank if you are non resident an alternative would be to open an account in IOM or Jersey with one of the big banks. I am sure the DWP would have no objection to paying into one of those banks.

 

 

Den

 

I used to have one in Jersey years ago up until they wanted me to pay 70 quid a year to maintain it and all those niggly little ATM fees plus they refused to send me a new card th Thaialand.

[billd766]

On 9/6/2018 at 10:10 AM, sandyf said:

Bill, something to note. The branch code need to be shown separately, although integral to a Thai account it is not normal for international transfers. The branch is part of an IBAN code and the last 3 characters of a SWIFT code, but as Thailand does not use IBAN and only uses 8 character SWIFT codes for retail banking it is necessary for it to be entered separately.

As far as I am aware on Thai accounts the branch code is the first 3 digits of the account number.

I suspect that after reaching Thailand the SWIFT code and branch are merged for routing. If your existing branch code was missing or incorrect the payment would get held up at the Kasikorn main branch which is as far as the SWIFT code would take it.

 

I posted off my life certificate to the State pension people this morning and called them this afternoon to tell them.

 

I then got transferred to the guys who are involved in transferring the money and asked how and when it was done.

 

Sadly they told me that they only use Citibank and that it takes about 10 working days for the funds to reach my account. It also seems that I have managed to screw up my logging of the pension payments and I am out by 2 weeks. 

 

The last time that I checked, about 3 years ago I was told that my payment date was on the 4th Wednesday so I did a check sheet for my pensions going back many years and followed it and it works. The guy today told me I don't get paid again until 08 October and I should get it within 10 working days which would be 23 October, some 41 days after the last payment this week on 05 September, which using a phrase from my RAF days, is total <deleted>. The way I have calculated it, I should get it around 02 October.

 

He also said that they ONLY use Citibank for overseas transfers, or a UK bank account, and that it takes 5 working days to process in each bank.

 

Now I am totally confused so I will wait for the next payment and see what happens. I have a sneaky feeling that he may have looked at somebody elses account.

 

 

???

[sandyf]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

I posted off my life certificate to the State pension people this morning and called them this afternoon to tell them.

 

I then got transferred to the guys who are involved in transferring the money and asked how and when it was done.

 

Sadly they told me that they only use Citibank and that it takes about 10 working days for the funds to reach my account. It also seems that I have managed to screw up my logging of the pension payments and I am out by 2 weeks. 

 

The last time that I checked, about 3 years ago I was told that my payment date was on the 4th Wednesday so I did a check sheet for my pensions going back many years and followed it and it works. The guy today told me I don't get paid again until 08 October and I should get it within 10 working days which would be 23 October, some 41 days after the last payment this week on 05 September, which using a phrase from my RAF days, is total <deleted>. The way I have calculated it, I should get it around 02 October.

 

He also said that they ONLY use Citibank for overseas transfers, or a UK bank account, and that it takes 5 working days to process in each bank.

 

Now I am totally confused so I will wait for the next payment and see what happens. I have a sneaky feeling that he may have looked at somebody elses account.

 

 

???

The 10 working days is a standard response from any financial institution on international transfers, a bit of a leftover from the old days.

Remember some time ago there was some sort of problem over SWIFT codes and they said they would send out letters. In the debate on here there were some like me that got paid on the day pension was due and others like yourself that had to wait a few days. I never did get a letter, and there must have been a reason for that, and it strikes me that there must be a difference in how some accounts are handled.

The real problem is that the DWP staff will have no idea of banking protocol and how the software works so they have stock answers for enquiries. As I said before I think your best bet is to start from scratch with a new account.

 

Every month now I transfer some of my pension after I get it on the Friday and have found it is best to wait till Tue morning and the funds are often in my account that evening, or first thing Wed morning, if I do it at the weekend I still get it on the Tue, any talk of 5 working days is rubbish.

[transam]

My payment via Citi bank arrives every fourth Thursday at roughly the same time, l get an SMS message on my phone from BKK bank with the figure credited. The only time it has been a day late is if a Thai bank holiday falls on a Thursday..

[denby45]

On 9/6/2018 at 6:56 AM, Jip99 said:

 

 

It is in your name Den , with a 23- sort code and your individual account number.

 

Private pension providers pay to TW.

Thanks for that info. Jip99, Something new for me. I always transfer to their account No. when sending money.

 

Should work for the DWP then if it is an account in your own name and of course as I said before easy peasy. Hope I can remember this when I hit my own pension date in 5 years. 

 

Den

 

[OJAS]

30 minutes ago, denby45 said:

Thanks for that info. Jip99, Something new for me. I always transfer to their account No. when sending money.

 

Should work for the DWP then if it is an account in your own name and of course as I said before easy peasy. Hope I can remember this when I hit my own pension date in 5 years. 

 

Den

 

I would have thought that this would only be possible if a TransferWise borderless account had 8-digit account code and 6-digit sort code numbers, as per a regular UK account. However, it would appear from @Jip99's posting that this is not the case.