Becareful About Buying Property In Thailand

[accesscitrix]

becareful when buying property in Thailand, we were going to buy a condo in Silom in a re-furbished development called the state tower. We transferred all money for the condo around 4 million Baht and then were told by the company that because the previous company had gone bankrupt they were in the process of going through the courts to reapply for their loan as it was NPL (non-performing loan - which a lot of businesses in thailand have due to the economic downturn a few years ago) something they forgot to mention when we signed up to buy the place!

anyway to cut a long story short we waited about 3 months but luckily had sent the money to my wife's parents account for them to make the transfer rather than sending it direct to the company as they requested!

we decided to pull out of the deal after being told 3 months overdue that the court case wasn't ready and the condo couldn't be transferred until it was resolved. We wrote off our deposit of around 500,000 baht but luckily we had some contacts who knew people who own the building and eventually managed to get the deposit back!!!

If we had transferred the full amount to the company as they requested we would have probably lost all of it or eventually received the condo after time although we did not want to wait around and see. If the courts would not allow the company to keep the loan from the previous company they would have gone out of business.

my wife is thai and these companies are still not honest up front so foreigners beware, make sure you do ALL your HOMEWORK before even thinking of buying something or you could get burnt. Its definately made us think twice now about buying anything in Thailand in the future and next time we will definately get a lawyer or solicitor to investigate first.

[rio666uk]

my wife is thai and these companies are still not honest up front so foreigners beware, make sure you do ALL your HOMEWORK before even thinking of buying something or you could get burnt.  Its definately made us think twice now about buying anything in Thailand in the future and next time we will definately get a lawyer or solicitor to investigate first.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure i understand why you didnt follow your own advice to start with - why didnt you sought legal advice in the first place... I am sure if i were parting with 4m bht, a solicitor would be my first stop.

[Thaipwriter]

becareful when buying property in Thailand

BE CAREFULL WHEN BUYING PROPERTY IN THAILAND

....one of those rare occasions when the use of caps cannot be questioned

[accesscitrix]

I actually thought 4m baht was a pretty reasonable price for a condo in this building

http://www.emporis.com/en/wm/bu/?id=107198

But believe me I am no longer naive about the way businesses work in Thailand. The company even seemed professional http://www.challenge.co.th

From now on i'll be more careful

[Thaipwriter]

Accesscitrix, would i be right in thinking that you were dealing with the developer directly?

If you were introduced to the building by an agent, he should have been aware of the NPL and warned you about this.

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the sheer volume of farangs who come to Thailand to buy a bit of property with the wife or teerac and they are stupid / arrogant enough to think that they can deal directly with the developer themselves. They are way out of their depth, the farang cant speak Thai and 70% of the time the wife of GF is poorly educated.

It seems that folks are happy to spend 3 million Baht on a home but try and skimp on 25,000 Baht commission to an agent or a small legal bill.

In my line of work I see this sort of thing every day, farangs getting fleeced in broad daylight. They spent a couple hours on here reading a few threads and they think they got it all figured out!

I have no sympathy for them at all, they deserve everything they let themselves in for.

[accesscitrix]

Yes i was stupid enough to deal with the developer directly. Although business with them was conducted in English and Thai and my wife also has a BA. Her father even came along as he was concerned, but the developer seemed genuine enough, to be fair they probably do a lot of business but it was the NPL that got me.

I wouldn't trust an agent either because they may only want a sale to make commission.

We were very lucky to say the least and took our money and invested in a larger property in the UK which seems a far wiser move at this point. The condo was only going to be a holiday home to stay when we visit.

[Thaipwriter]

a lot of business but it was the NPL that got me. 

I wouldn't trust an agent either because they may only want a sale to make commission. 

You dont have to trust them, the final decision is yours, they have local info that can help you size up the opposition

[stevehaigh]

Its definately made us think twice now about buying anything in Thailand in the future and next time we will definately get a lawyer or solicitor to investigate first.

while i agree with the above, unfortunately getting a lawyer to check everything out is no guarentee of success either!

[sierra01]

Its definately made us think twice now about buying anything in Thailand in the future and next time we will definately get a lawyer or solicitor to investigate first.

while i agree with the above, unfortunately getting a lawyer to check everything out is no guarentee of success either!

Then it looks like your f**ked before you even start, no comeback on the Lawyer either i suppose?

[CSX]

This post really interests me. Let me ask you folks if there is any way possible to minimize your risk of being ripped off????????????? Lawyers are lawyers no matter where you go. And realtors can be like car salesmen also. So who can you trust????????? I don't mind paying a commision or fee for someone doing a job of watching my back! But, How do I know they are doing their job and watching my back?????????

[haha]

in the states, you have title companies which work with you on the sale of property. these companies insure the buyer and the seller that there are no debts or such outstanding on the property to be sold.

do they have the same here in thailand? just curious...

if not, maybe a "branch" of these title companies can get established here? would that be possible?

the following is a website of the title company I went though to recently.

http://www.firstam.com/faf/services/title-services.html

[mbkudu]

It seems that folks are happy to spend 3 million Baht on a home but try and skimp on 25,000 Baht commission to an agent or a small legal bill.

An honest, legitimate agent will not require a commission from the buyer. His commission is earned from the seller. Of course the seller will try to recoup this cost by trying to sell his condo a notch higher, but if the buyer researches well and negotiates skillfully, he can get a fair price that satisfies

both buyer and seller.

[Dragonman]

This post really interests me. Let me ask you folks if there is any way possible to minimize your risk of being ripped off????????????? Lawyers are lawyers no matter where you go. And realtors can be like car salesmen also. So who can you trust????????? I don't mind paying a commision or fee for someone doing a job of watching my back! But, How do I know they are doing their job and watching my back?????????

It should not be difficult, armed with the vast amount of information on this forum, to approach a lawyer and clarify what they are going to do, why?, and for how much. Keep a check on each process if you wish. For example all charges should be recorded on the chanote. Any queries which are responded to with "don't worry about that" should be looked at in more detail. Don't forget the professionals are working for you, not as a favour! Non- communication, due to the client not liking to query the lawyer, was the greatest reason for actions against lawyers, in which I have participated.

[drjo2525]

Hallo,

thanks for suprising information.

As I am too interested to buy a condo at this place, could you please tell me from what company you wanted to buy- from the developer or some different owner?

regards

Dr.Jo

"[email protected]"

becareful when buying property in Thailand, we were going to buy a condo in Silom in a re-furbished development called the state tower. We transferred all money for the condo around 4 million Baht and then were told by the company that because the previous company had gone bankrupt they were in the process of going through the courts to reapply for their loan as it was NPL (non-performing loan - which a lot of businesses in thailand have due to the economic downturn a few years ago) something they forgot to mention when we signed up to buy the place!

anyway to cut a long story short we waited about 3 months but luckily had sent the money to my wife's parents account for them to make the transfer rather than sending it direct to the company as they requested!

we decided to pull out of the deal after being told 3 months overdue that the court case wasn't ready and the condo couldn't be transferred until it was resolved. We wrote off our deposit of around 500,000 baht but luckily we had some contacts who knew people who own the building and eventually managed to get the deposit back!!!

If we had transferred the full amount to the company as they requested we would have probably lost all of it or eventually received the condo after time although we did not want to wait around and see. If the courts would not allow the company to keep the loan from the previous company they would have gone out of business.

my wife is thai and these companies are still not honest up front so foreigners beware, make sure you do ALL your HOMEWORK before even thinking of buying something or you could get burnt. Its definately made us think twice now about buying anything in Thailand in the future and next time we will definately get a lawyer or solicitor to investigate first.

[rishi]

Hallo,

thanks for suprising information.

As I am too interested to buy a condo at this place, could you please tell me from what company you wanted to buy- from the developer or some different owner?

regards

Dr.Jo

"[email protected]"

Can't supply with much on this one - and it could be that the one(s) you're asking for advice do come around and provide ... BUT, you re-opened a 8 months old thread (which of course is perfectly legal), but much has changed since - so you've made me curious: you must have waded trough several more up-to-to-date and considerably more information-rich threads re buying condominium before stumbling over this one - what makes this one so special?

[fxm88]

in the states, you have title companies which work with you on the sale of property. these companies insure the buyer and the seller that there are no debts or such outstanding on the property to be sold.

Is it not available or simply not necessary? Wikipedia states "Title insurance exists in the US in great part because of a comparative deficiency in the US land records laws. Most of the industrialized world uses land registration systems for the transfer of land titles or interests in them." Maybe an escrow service was what was needed, but I guess that's pretty rare here, too.

In the states, you can usually go to city hall or wherever and poke around through the deeds (really quite interesting if you've never done it) where everything gets recorded. Do Thai land offices let people dig around in their records?

[suiging]

in the states, you have title companies which work with you on the sale of property. these companies insure the buyer and the seller that there are no debts or such outstanding on the property to be sold.

Is it not available or simply not necessary? Wikipedia states "Title insurance exists in the US in great part because of a comparative deficiency in the US land records laws. Most of the industrialized world uses land registration systems for the transfer of land titles or interests in them." Maybe an escrow service was what was needed, but I guess that's pretty rare here, too.

In the states, you can usually go to city hall or wherever and poke around through the deeds (really quite interesting if you've never done it) where everything gets recorded. Do Thai land offices let people dig around in their records?

I think the set of circumstances outlined by the OP have occured just about everywhere in the world. I have been ripped of in Birmingham for God's sake and the tales of forced repossessions in Spain are horrific. There are many rip off artists in the LOS and the legal process a minefield at best. However, once you find the right official here and your checks are carried out by a lawer you can trust ( based on more than one recommendation for good work ) things don't tend to creep up and bite you in the bum quite as much as in Mickey Euroland. The trusted lawer by the way does not have to have a wall full of tin plates, but he must be " In the Know " with the right people in the area you wish to deal with. Who they know, often more important than what an arm full of qualifications suggest they should know.

[taxexile]

Britons pay the price on Costa del Scam

By Fiona Govan

(Filed: 26/08/2006)

A short drive from the centre of the glitzy resort of Marbella on the edge of a banana plantation with views over the Mediterranean, the newly built beach front apartment seemed too good an opportunity to miss for Jack and Yvonne Burditt.

The Devonshire couple were looking to invest their life savings on a home to spend their retirement in so they handed over more than €250,000 (£170,000) and moved in right away.

Three years later they are still there but instead of enjoying sunsets from their terrace they are keeping a watchful eye out for the bulldozers they fear will come to demolish their home.

The Burditts are among the many victims of an alleged property fraud that has rocked the town of Marbella on the Costa del Sol and landed more than 50 people including the mayor, councillors, developers, estate agents and lawyers in prison, pending trial for fraud, embezzlement and other charges.

In April the Madrid government took the unprecedented step of dismissing the entire town council after an investigation, dubbed Operation Malaya, claimed that it was embroiled in a network of bribes and corruption, siphoning cash from the huge construction boom of Spain's southern coast.

It is alleged that under the chief of urban planning, Juan Antonio Roca, the town hall accepted bribes for, among other things, granting building permits on land not designated for construction.

It is thought that about 30,000 of the 80,000 Marbella properties built in the past decade have been constructed illegally, and at least 4,500 of these face court decisions on whether they should be demolished or legalised.

Those in most danger of being flattened are buildings constructed too close to the sea or on public parkland such as the Burditts' home at Banana Beach.

''It came as such a shock to us to hear that our building is on what is essentially green belt land and shouldn't be here," said Mrs Burditt, 83, who was assured by a local lawyer that everything was above board when she and her husband made the purchase.

''Our block was listed on the local news as one of those likely to be demolished but we have heard nothing official. It's torture not knowing what is going to happen."

That sentiment is shared by scores of other British investors left in limbo as to the fate of their properties. Christopher Winter, a music producer from Rangeworthy, near Bristol, and his wife have £40,000 invested in a rural property in the hills above Marbella that they had hoped to rent out as a holiday home before reselling at a profit.

''We paid the deposit in March 2003 and were due to take possession last spring but before we paid the final £100,000 we found out that the land was not designated for this type of building and it was therefore illegal," he said.

''The decision we have to make now is do we pay the rest and possibly throw good money after bad in the hope that the building is approved or do we pull out, lose the £40,000 and hope for compensation?"

It is not only foreign purchasers who are suffering. Thousands of locals have also been affected. Antonio Banderas, the Spanish actor, made headlines when it emerged that one of his properties could also face demolition for not having the proper authorisation.

Gwilym Rhys-Jones, an adviser and investigator at the Costa del Sol Action Group, which helps expatriates in the region to fight fraud, estimates that it could cost almost £4.5 billion to compensate those caught up in the swindle. ''That's the minimum figure officials say it will cost them to indemnify innocent parties caught up in Marbella's building scandal," he said.

''It's a nightmare for everyone involved as there is no way the council can afford that.

''As we now know, the town's coffers have been drained by all the embezzlement and Marbella has been left poor."

The true extent of the scandal is not yet known but is thought to run into billions. Initial raids as part of the ongoing Operation Malaya seized large amounts of hidden cash along with 200 fighting bulls, 103 thoroughbred horses, 275 works of art, a helicopter and four Porsches.

According to one local lawyer it was only a matter of time before such things were discovered.

"Of course everyone knew to some extent what was going on but there was so much corruption on all levels that it was impossible to fight it," said Rafael Berdaguer Abogados, a property law expert.

[email protected]

from todays daily telegraph

these scams can occur anywhere , not only here.

i lived on koh samui for a couple of years recently and the stench of greed and avarice as a result of the property price boom there hung in the air around the island like a cloud of poisonous gas infecting almost everyone who breathed it.

am i the only one who thinks that 99.99% of land developers , lawyers , agents and all the other associated bottom feeding selfish parasites involved in that business are among the greediest and most immoral spineless scum on the planet.

[Nawtilus]

Why do you come to that conclusion....is your father inlaw a developer perhaps ?

[suiging]

Britons pay the price on Costa del Scam

By Fiona Govan

(Filed: 26/08/2006)

A short drive from the centre of the glitzy resort of Marbella on the edge of a banana plantation with views over the Mediterranean, the newly built beach front apartment seemed too good an opportunity to miss for Jack and Yvonne Burditt.

The Devonshire couple were looking to invest their life savings on a home to spend their retirement in so they handed over more than €250,000 (£170,000) and moved in right away.

Three years later they are still there but instead of enjoying sunsets from their terrace they are keeping a watchful eye out for the bulldozers they fear will come to demolish their home.

The Burditts are among the many victims of an alleged property fraud that has rocked the town of Marbella on the Costa del Sol and landed more than 50 people including the mayor, councillors, developers, estate agents and lawyers in prison, pending trial for fraud, embezzlement and other charges.

In April the Madrid government took the unprecedented step of dismissing the entire town council after an investigation, dubbed Operation Malaya, claimed that it was embroiled in a network of bribes and corruption, siphoning cash from the huge construction boom of Spain's southern coast.

It is alleged that under the chief of urban planning, Juan Antonio Roca, the town hall accepted bribes for, among other things, granting building permits on land not designated for construction.

It is thought that about 30,000 of the 80,000 Marbella properties built in the past decade have been constructed illegally, and at least 4,500 of these face court decisions on whether they should be demolished or legalised.

Those in most danger of being flattened are buildings constructed too close to the sea or on public parkland such as the Burditts' home at Banana Beach.

''It came as such a shock to us to hear that our building is on what is essentially green belt land and shouldn't be here," said Mrs Burditt, 83, who was assured by a local lawyer that everything was above board when she and her husband made the purchase.

''Our block was listed on the local news as one of those likely to be demolished but we have heard nothing official. It's torture not knowing what is going to happen."

That sentiment is shared by scores of other British investors left in limbo as to the fate of their properties. Christopher Winter, a music producer from Rangeworthy, near Bristol, and his wife have £40,000 invested in a rural property in the hills above Marbella that they had hoped to rent out as a holiday home before reselling at a profit.

''We paid the deposit in March 2003 and were due to take possession last spring but before we paid the final £100,000 we found out that the land was not designated for this type of building and it was therefore illegal," he said.

''The decision we have to make now is do we pay the rest and possibly throw good money after bad in the hope that the building is approved or do we pull out, lose the £40,000 and hope for compensation?"

It is not only foreign purchasers who are suffering. Thousands of locals have also been affected. Antonio Banderas, the Spanish actor, made headlines when it emerged that one of his properties could also face demolition for not having the proper authorisation.

Gwilym Rhys-Jones, an adviser and investigator at the Costa del Sol Action Group, which helps expatriates in the region to fight fraud, estimates that it could cost almost £4.5 billion to compensate those caught up in the swindle. ''That's the minimum figure officials say it will cost them to indemnify innocent parties caught up in Marbella's building scandal," he said.

''It's a nightmare for everyone involved as there is no way the council can afford that.

''As we now know, the town's coffers have been drained by all the embezzlement and Marbella has been left poor."

The true extent of the scandal is not yet known but is thought to run into billions. Initial raids as part of the ongoing Operation Malaya seized large amounts of hidden cash along with 200 fighting bulls, 103 thoroughbred horses, 275 works of art, a helicopter and four Porsches.

According to one local lawyer it was only a matter of time before such things were discovered.

"Of course everyone knew to some extent what was going on but there was so much corruption on all levels that it was impossible to fight it," said Rafael Berdaguer Abogados, a property law expert.

[email protected]

from todays daily telegraph

these scams can occur anywhere , not only here.

i lived on koh samui for a couple of years recently and the stench of greed and avarice as a result of the property price boom there hung in the air around the island like a cloud of poisonous gas infecting almost everyone who breathed it.

am i the only one who thinks that 99.99% of land developers , lawyers , agents and all the other associated bottom feeding selfish parasites involved in that business are among the greediest and most immoral spineless scum on the planet.

Scared of dentists myself