Manchester United

[redrus]

1323614813[/url]' post='4905913']

1323611220[/url]' post='4905805']

1323608019[/url]' post='4905690']

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.............

Same pedigree as who for Goodness sake.....? Smalling and Jones especially have the pedigree to be thee best central defenders in the world for years and years to come .... Stats may give you the information you need for your balanced argument but, you lose your actual real life vision and, dare I say, common sense in that argument...!

redrus

Actually you are simply confusing two entirely separate arguments.

You are confusing their 'potential' with 'reality'. I am in no way indicating that either Vidic (and especially Ferdinand) will become 'the best defenders in the future' 'for years and years' because their prospect is 'retirement'. However, you are confusing what might be in the future to what is actually now.

If you actually compare Vidic to Smalling or Jones you will see that he currently outperforms them both in terms of quality and quantity over virtually all parameters. In some cases, it is quite dramatic. Say on the basis that Jones loses possession at least '8 times' as frequently as either Vidic or Ferdinand.

To be honest, for you to state that it requires common sense to realize that in the future Jones and Smalling will be far better players than two very much older players (or that they have more potential) sets an incredibly low bar for what you might apparently mean by 'sense' in the first place.

Absolute, total and utter tosh...!! Your stats can't say a great deal, Jones is in his first season with us and is 19 years old. Smalling is a year older and in his second, both have played, more often than not out of position, Jones completely so..!

I confuse nothing and believe you enter into a "stats" battle to try and WUM people into an argument, friendly banter or some such other banal self entertainment.

Potential is what it is... Jones and Smalling have it in spades, while unfortunately Evans, has very little.

So, back to your stats..... I've watched United for 30 years and, can quite honestly say, I have never ever seen two with more promise, potential whatever you wanna call it, stats will never ever change what I see with my eyes. So, in that context, in my mind I can compare them with who ever I like, I don't need your stats, as illuminating as you may find them...!!!

Vidic probably outperforms most defenders on the planet so, a statistical battle with 2 young lads played constantly out of position is, futile..!

I set my bar low.... Try harder next time sonny...

redrus

Jones seems to everything a modern defender should have, pace, strength, great controll. He can attack, defend and seems to have a maturity of players older than itself on the pitch. He will be a massive player for England.

Compliment noted and appreciated.....

Not sure what you mean by the 'England' bit though, Jonesinho is most definately Brazilian...!

redrus

[JacknDanny]

1323641869[/url]' post='4906344']

Abby and dev, the only stats concerning LP that matter are these: how many years since you won the league? How many years since you won anything?

Any other stats you roll out mean nothing, 0, nada, zilch in the context of what matters.

Stats? When did I mention stats? I paid a compliment to one of your players and get hurled abuse, sensitive lot aren't you

James, learn to read, Abrak shove your stats where the sun dont shine!! Jones and Smalling are above average players, who have the potential to become great... my problem would be more with Evra and Ferdinand... both past it.

And the midfield!!! Sh@te..... Thats why Utd wont win the league, pure and simple!! But Smalling and Jones!! Every team would love to have them, including City

[redrus]

1323641869[/url]' post='4906344']

Abby and dev, the only stats concerning LP that matter are these: how many years since you won the league? How many years since you won anything?

Any other stats you roll out mean nothing, 0, nada, zilch in the context of what matters.

Stats? When did I mention stats? I paid a compliment to one of your players and get hurled abuse, sensitive lot aren't you

James, learn to read, Abrak shove your stats where the sun dont shine!! Jones and Smalling are above average players, who have the potential to become great... my problem would be more with Evra and Ferdinand... both past it.

And the midfield!!! Sh@te..... but Utd will win the league, pure and simple!! Smalling and Jones!! Every team would love to have them, including City

Agree with quite a lot of that......

redrus

[bkkjames]

Jack, I can read mate-just too lazy to sometimes

[smokie36]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/16165953.stm

Wish him all the best with what will be a life long condition. Let's hope we see him back playing as soon as possible.

[SantiSuk]

http://news.bbc.co.u...ll/16165953.stm

Wish him all the best with what will be a life long condition. Let's hope we see him back playing as soon as possible.

Agreed. 6 month layoffs for hamstrings and broken bones are par for the course but not many wish career-threatening layoffs on another team and especially not on the individual.

[rixalex]

It is a sad old business with DF.

Players have a short shelf life these days, and the frustration of even missing just one season must be immense and a great psychological challenge. Still, health comes first and i hope regardless of how his career is affected by this, that he fully recovers.

[Abrak]

1323641869[/url]' post='4906344']

Abby and dev, the only stats concerning LP that matter are these: how many years since you won the league? How many years since you won anything?

Any other stats you roll out mean nothing, 0, nada, zilch in the context of what matters.

Stats? When did I mention stats? I paid a compliment to one of your players and get hurled abuse, sensitive lot aren't you

James, learn to read, Abrak shove your stats where the sun dont shine!! Jones and Smalling are above average players, who have the potential to become great... my problem would be more with Evra and Ferdinand... both past it.

And the midfield!!! Sh@te..... but Utd will win the league, pure and simple!! Smalling and Jones!! Every team would love to have them, including City

Agree with quite a lot of that......

redrus

Actually you are missing my points....

1) My most important point is that Vidic's stats are exceptional in terms of quality and quantity. So it is unlikely you will find a defender in football who can replace him without a huge outlay.

2) My second point is far more debatable. I certainly wouldnt disagree with the idea 'that Jones and Smalling are above average players who can be great in the future'. I do however wonder if people are being rather rash in writing off say Ferdinand and Evra so quickly. It just seems to me that say England were blessed with a bunch of world class footballers - Lampard, Gerard, Terry, Cole, Ferdinand etc - and just because we are replacing them doesnt make their replacements that good or them particularly bad. Terry for instance is 5th in the League for pass completion and in the top 20 for passes per game.

I know it is natural to get excited about youngsters, I am not convinced it is fully deserved.

[Abrak]

James, learn to read, Abrak shove your stats where the sun dont shine!! Jones and Smalling are above average players, who have the potential to become great... my problem would be more with Evra and Ferdinand... both past it.

And the midfield!!! Sh@te..... Thats why Utd wont win the league, pure and simple!! But Smalling and Jones!! Every team would love to have them, including City

Yes, I get your point. You dont respect the facts but I should respect your opinion.

How about....

Man City: Arsenal (home), Liverpool (home), Spurs (home), Chelsea (home), Man Utd (home)

Man Utd: Arsenal (away), Chelsea (away), Liverpool (home), Spurs (away), Man City (away)

Man City will win the League. Pure and simple.

[Sparkles]

The Europa Cup is a fantastic tournament to win that is!

That's the spirit!

The spirit will always be with us,i can see three very big games against the bitters on the horizon.....and we are still in three comps so as long as we start performing to the level we started the season ,we will be ok.

What about your shaky midfield? Is Sparkles right about Scholes then?

I suggested Scholes to the rescue,partly tongue in cheek, because its been common knowledge (to some of us)that all has not been right with Darren Fletcher for over a year. He has soldiered on but you might have noticed the last few matches he has not been used even from the bench.Its now been officially released that the long term, so called mystery illness, is in fact ulcerative colitis of the bowel. For those who dont know, and all the know alls and knockers, its a very serious bowel condition which at worse case scenario means removal of the bowel. This season has probably ended for him . With Anderson,Hernandes ,Owen, Vicic, ,Cleverley,the 2 da Silvas out the cupboard is quite bare.

The same person who told me a long while ago about Fletcher's condition has said that there is a case for Evra moving up to left midfield and Fryers playing left back. He showed against Wolves, while he is only 19, he is a very cool customer. With Evra getting constantly out jumped it may well be a good move. While he has an exotic name Exekiel Fryers was born and bred in Manchester,another exciting prospect...ensuring the home grown youth keep coming through. Next four games QPR,Wigan,Blackburn, Fullham. United not in demise at all just need an injury free run.

[alfieconn]

James, learn to read, Abrak shove your stats where the sun dont shine!! Jones and Smalling are above average players, who have the potential to become great... my problem would be more with Evra and Ferdinand... both past it.

And the midfield!!! Sh@te..... Thats why Utd wont win the league, pure and simple!! But Smalling and Jones!! Every team would love to have them, including City

Yes, I get your point. You dont respect the facts but I should respect your opinion.

How about....

Man City: Arsenal (home), Liverpool (home), Spurs (home), Chelsea (home), Man Utd (home)

Man Utd: Arsenal (away), Chelsea (away), Liverpool (home), Spurs (away), Man City (away)

Man City will win the League. Pure and simple.

abrak you seem to have this strange idea that having home games against the big clubs makes their overall fixtures easier perhaps forgetting that they still have difficult away games

Take these 2 scenarios :

Team A fixtures : Arse H Chels H Man u H Stoke A Fulham A Aston villa A

Team B fixtures : Arse A Chels A man u A Stoke H Fulham H Aston villa H

Now Team A and Team B being equal who would gain the most points ? it could well be Team B,which disproves your theory

[MrRed]

Please stop clogging up the real football thread with statistics,we all know that Fergie has more record beating stats then anyone in PL football :jap:

[smokie36]

With a bit of luck you'll be playing Stoke in the next round.

[bkkjames]

Smokes, I suggest you start a new topic: europa disaster zone

[smokie36]

Smokes, I suggest you start a new topic: europa disaster zone

I'm waiting for the first leg to be played...

[MrRed]

Smokes, I suggest you start a new topic: europa disaster zone

I'm waiting for the first leg to be played...

Or even a Premier League fallout thread

[redrus]

With a bit of luck you'll be playing Stoke in the next round.

We can't...!

redrus

[MrRed]

:)Ajax nice draw shoudl be a nice tidy game

[smokie36]

:)Ajax nice draw shoudl be a nice tidy game

Lucky supporters....I'd be making a long weekend of that trip!

[MrRed]

:)Ajax nice draw shoudl be a nice tidy game

Lucky supporters....I'd be making a long weekend of that trip!

We always do Smokie

[carmine]

:)Ajax nice draw shoudl be a nice tidy game

Lucky supporters....I'd be making a long weekend of that trip!

We always do Smokie

I doubt Utd will want a long run in the europa as it could seriously compromise their top four premier league status.

Edited December 17, 2011 by carmine

[smokie36]

:)Ajax nice draw shoudl be a nice tidy game

Lucky supporters....I'd be making a long weekend of that trip!

We always do Smokie

I doubt Utd will want a long run in the europa as it could seriously compromise their top four premier league status.

No especially as Arsenal will be heading out of Europe in February.

[MrRed]

United could be reinstated into the Champions League

[rixalex]

United could be reinstated into the Champions League

Won't happen, but if it did, United should refuse reinstatement on the basis of having been knocked out square and fair.

[smokie36]

United could be reinstated into the Champions League

I can see the bubbles and the straws but your big bulbous nose has disappeared already.

[rixalex]

United could be reinstated into the Champions League

I can see the bubbles and the straws but your big bulbous nose has disappeared already.

Indulged in a few Sunday afternoon sherries there smokes?

[smokie36]

United could be reinstated into the Champions League

I can see the bubbles and the straws but your big bulbous nose has disappeared already.

Indulged in a few Sunday afternoon sherries there smokes?

Funnily enough i was sober at the time of posting....not now though. Time to find a bar with the Spurs game on. Saigon aint easy mate....

[bkkjames]

Christmas comes early

United agree a £30mil deal with Benfica to sign 23yrs old midfielder Nicolas Gaitan(can play as Central/Attacking midfielder+left winger) next summer,according to Jorge Mendes(agent who help United to sign the likes of Ronaldo,Nani,Anderson,De Gea)

[bkkjames]

Christmas comes early

United agree a £30mil deal with Benfica to sign 23yrs old midfielder Nicolas Gaitan(can play as Central/Attacking midfielder+left winger) next summer,according to Jorge Mendes(agent who help United to sign the likes of Ronaldo,Nani,Anderson,De Gea)

Check out the video ..

[alfieconn]

Christmas comes early

United agree a £30mil deal with Benfica to sign 23yrs old midfielder Nicolas Gaitan(can play as Central/Attacking midfielder+left winger) next summer,according to Jorge Mendes(agent who help United to sign the likes of Ronaldo,Nani,Anderson,De Gea)

Thats no good, you need him now