Old Expats In Thailand - Possible Hell On Earth?

[falang07]

Hello,

I am still quite young and this does not apply to me, but sometimes, when I think about staying in here until my old age, I am a little worried about all the problems an old farang might face in this country. We all know that if one has money and good health, all is OK and there is no need to worry about anything. However, imagine this situation: old man in his 60s or 70s married to a nice (or not so nice) Thai wife who one day decides to divorce with him. He, up until now, was happily married and stayed in Thailand based on his marriage visa which he still has to renew every year and report his address to the immigration every 90 days until he dies. So, his house is in his wife's name since he can not legally own it even if he has been living here for decades, his right to stay in here is not valid any more (since his wife divorced with him and the visa is going to be revoked), he has no family or real estate properties in his home country, and his pension is not big enough to apply for the retirement visa (possibly due to the unfavorable development of the THB exchange rate over the decades). Will he be deported now? What are his options? Perhaps going to school and make an ED visa? I find this very unfair and worrying, especially when Thais are accepted in other countries with the same rights as the residents when they decide to live abroad and have a family there. Is Thailand a racist country then? I think it is, and no matter how I like living in here, the future worries me a little in this respect.

Edited June 29, 2012 by falang07

[Darrel]

If he is really that poor then he could potter along here on ed visas or border runs or whatever, until he gets ill but then he would have to clear off back home pretty sharpish if he wanted subsidised/free health care.

Thailand is fine if you have money, even if you're old and not well, but it is not a country in which I would choose to be poor and ill.

[jamescollister]

Would they be any better off back in their home counties, old, poor, sick and homeless. Seen some guys buried around Issan that have not done a visa in over 7 years. One didn't even have a current passport.

And of course the other option, just drink yourself to death. Jim

[billd766]

I fit that profile mostly.

I am 68, married to a Thai with a dual nationality son, house and everything except my motorbikes registered in my wifes name.

I am on a retirement visa extension and not a marriage one. got enough pension monet to keep me going unless the GBP drops to 35 or so.

So far after 19 years of knowing my wife, 12 years of marriage, 8 years of our son I read this post.

Thank you for your concern but speaking for myself I don't have any worries or problems that I can see in the future.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and one of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

I am aware that when I was born many years ago I came into the world with nothing and was surrounded by my parents and my brothers love.

My parents are long dead though my brother is still alive and the love is now the love of my family.

I am also aware that when I die if I only have 10 baht and nowhere to live or a gazillion baht, 20 houses, 50 cars and anything else I want in the world, sure as sh1t when I die I can't take it with me but I can take the love of my family.

What is worth the most?

[ripstanley]

I fit that profile mostly.

I am 68, married to a Thai with a dual nationality son, house and everything except my motorbikes registered in my wifes name.

I am on a retirement visa extension and not a marriage one. got enough pension monet to keep me going unless the GBP drops to 35 or so.

So far after 19 years of knowing my wife, 12 years of marriage, 8 years of our son I read this post.

Thank you for your concern but speaking for myself I don't have any worries or problems that I can see in the future.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and one of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

I am aware that when I was born many years ago I came into the world with nothing and was surrounded by my parents and my brothers love.

My parents are long dead though my brother is still alive and the love is now the love of my family.

I am also aware that when I die if I only have 10 baht and nowhere to live or a gazillion baht, 20 houses, 50 cars and anything else I want in the world, sure as sh1t when I die I can't take it with me but I can take the love of my family.

What is worth the most?

Very well said.

[falang07]

OK, but not everyone is that lucky like billd766, many marriages end up in divorce after all (no matter how much they have loved each other before, and I am sure as hell they often did). My point was that it would be really nice to have the same rights as my wife, the same as is granted to Thais abroad.

[edwinclapham]

OK, but not everyone is that lucky like billd766, many marriages end up in divorce after all (no matter how much they have loved each other before, and I am sure as hell they often did). My point was that it would be really nice to have the same rights as my wife, the same as is granted to Thais abroad.

"My point was that it would be really nice to have the same rights as my wife, the same as is granted to Thais abroad."

Well Farang that isnt going to happen in our life time .

My father doesnt have a Thai wife, he has lived for decades in the Kingdom and of course he has appraised the whole situation beforehand.

He enjoys his life, he realises that he wouldnt enjoy the same benefits as supposedly he would be entitled to in his own country and still opted for remaining.

(We of course will as the kids jump in where applicable !).. but that is not what he wants.

Regarding visas, so what, you are sick, what they going to do deport you? No airline would take you, so you are left with a detention centre if you are that unlucky .

If you have made some plans, great! If not, dont tink tooo mutt!

Edited June 29, 2012 by edwinclapham

[falang07]

Well, my vision was to live somewhere upcountry when I would be old and without any income, and not have to worry about some 90 day reporting or renewing of the visa every year. Oh dear, I will have to find another country for this dream then, Burma here I come

[edwinclapham]

Well, my vision was to live somewhere upcountry when I would be old and without any income, and not have to worry about some 90 day reporting or renewing of the visa every year. Oh dear, I will have to find another country for this dream then, Burma here I come

Farang the 90 day reporting is the scourge of living there unfortunately.

Have a look at Malaysia, they are more welcoming! If your google "retirement in Malaysia" loads of info available.

Edited June 29, 2012 by edwinclapham

[TommoPhysicist]

1) A foreigner buying a house in his wifes name is against the law, do it and you deserve all you get.

2) A sensible foreigner keeps 800k in a hidden bank account for use in a marital emergency.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and one of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

An extremely sensible outlook on living in Thailand.

Edited June 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[billd766]

1) A foreigner buying a house in his wifes name is against the law, do it and you deserve all you get.

2) A sensible foreigner keeps 800k in a hidden bank account for use in a marital emergency.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

An extremely sensible outlook on living in Thailand.

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

We have a joint bank account in Thailand and she can see how much is there at any time she wants.

Also a sensible man who loves and trusts his wife has no need of a hidden bank account.

I have no secrets from my wife and indeed why should I?

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

I and many friends who have married Thais don't have this problem.

[Gary A]

A fool and his money are soon parted. This is a tough old world we live in and if you don't look after yourself, no one else is going to.

I am married to a Thai lady and have never used the support (marriage) visa. I don't expect my wife to throw me out but stranger things have happened. I would not feel at all comfortable if I didn't have a sufficient income and could not keep 800,000 baht in my bank account.

Thailand is a great place to live but this is no place for a poverty stricken old man. And yes, I am an old man. It's difficult for me to workup much sympathy for those who fail to plan.

[crille30]

I realy do understand Op point that it would be nice to feel relaxed by the visa and I think the 90 day report will be just by letter or even email in the future for all,Just found out today for exampel that in Phuket were I live at the moment i can send my 90 report by letter(ED-visa) so I think there slowly come changes.But one thing is very importent that most of us forget,its not a right to live in Thailand,we are guests here, and there country and there rules, take it or leave it.Sure it could be better for visa and other things but I have made a choice to live here and then i have to take it as it is.

[TommoPhysicist]

A fool and his money are soon parted. This is a tough old world we live in and if you don't look after yourself, no one else is going to.

I am married to a Thai lady and have never used the support (marriage) visa. I don't expect my wife to throw me out but stranger things have happened. I would not feel at all comfortable if I didn't have a sufficient income and could not keep 800,000 baht in my bank account.

Thailand is a great place to live but this is no place for a poverty stricken old man. And yes, I am an old man. It's difficult for me to workup much sympathy for those who fail to plan.

Exactly!

[edwinclapham]

I realy do understand Op point that it would be nice to feel relaxed by the visa and I think the 90 day report will be just by letter or even email in the future for all,Just found out today for exampel that in Phuket were I live at the moment i can send my 90 report by letter(ED-visa) so I think there slowly come changes.But one thing is very importent that most of us forget,its not a right to live in Thailand,we are guests here, and there country and there rules, take it or leave it.Sure it could be better for visa and other things but I have made a choice to live here and then i have to take it as it is.

Yes you are correct you are a guest in Thailand and that you did indeed make that choice. Therefore a contingency plan if one is that way inclined is probably the way to go.

[TommoPhysicist]

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

In life one should always hope for the best, but only a fool fails to plan for the worst.

Trust No One ............

(Actually, you can usually trust your parents, but never your wife or children)

Edited June 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[crille30]

I realy do understand Op point that it would be nice to feel relaxed by the visa and I think the 90 day report will be just by letter or even email in the future for all,Just found out today for exampel that in Phuket were I live at the moment i can send my 90 report by letter(ED-visa) so I think there slowly come changes.But one thing is very importent that most of us forget,its not a right to live in Thailand,we are guests here, and there country and there rules, take it or leave it.Sure it could be better for visa and other things but I have made a choice to live here and then i have to take it as it is.

Yes you are correct you are a guest in Thailand and that you did indeed make that choice. Therefore a contingency plan if one is that way inclined is probably the way to go.

Absolut when at are 65 we all should have at least the 800k i bank if we dont have pension high enough.If we dont have that we should think again were to live our last years Edited June 29, 2012 by crille30

[edwinclapham]

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

In life one should always hope for the best, but only a fool fails to plan for the worst.

Trust No One ............

(Actually, you can usually trust your parents, but never your wife or children)

Come on Tommo... thats such a broad generalisation. I would be devastated if I were not able to trust my kids.

[TommoPhysicist]

Come on Tommo... thats such a broad generalisation. I would be devastated if I were not able to trust my kids.

I once believed I could trust my (former) wife and (former) kids ...... now I know better.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

Edited June 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[ableguy]

1) A foreigner buying a house in his wifes name is against the law, do it and you deserve all you get.

2) A sensible foreigner keeps 800k in a hidden bank account for use in a marital emergency.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

An extremely sensible outlook on living in Thailand.

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

We have a joint bank account in Thailand and she can see how much is there at any time she wants.

Also a sensible man who loves and trusts his wife has no need of a hidden bank account.

I have no secrets from my wife and indeed why should I?

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

I and many friends who have married Thais don't have this problem.

Are you not aware of the thousands who get ripped off every year, this is the real world not your fancy one in a million situations

[falang07]

Yes, we are just plain people and since people tend to fail quite often and it is their fundamental quality (I doubt anyone's wife never fails but perhaps you are the lucky one, or at least you live in that illusion :-), if you trust for 100% in someone else except your mother, you are quite a fool. Many have learned that the hard way. Or can you say you did not fail in your whole life, i.e. can you 'throw the stone' as they say in the Bible, or 'let him that is without sin among you first cast the stone at her?' and prove that some people do not fail?

[TommoPhysicist]

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

I don't believe it is against the law for you to give an unencumbered gift to your Thai wife to buy/build a house and land.

(But I do know of at least one female Thai judge that has ruled this was against the law)

But it is against the law for you to give your wife money to buy land which you then call/consider YOUR house.

This is called a nominee purchase and is strictly against Thai law.

Edited June 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[moe666]

1) A foreigner buying a house in his wifes name is against the law, do it and you deserve all you get.

2) A sensible foreigner keeps 800k in a hidden bank account for use in a marital emergency.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

An extremely sensible outlook on living in Thailand.

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

We have a joint bank account in Thailand and she can see how much is there at any time she wants.

Also a sensible man who loves and trusts his wife has no need of a hidden bank account.

I have no secrets from my wife and indeed why should I?

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

I and many friends who have married Thais don't have this problem.

Are you not aware of the thousands who get ripped off every year, this is the real world not your fancy one in a million situations

Where are your stats on these thousand who get ripped off or just your imigination working overtime.

[TommoPhysicist]

Where are your stats on these thousand who get ripped off or just your imigination working overtime.

I know personally, about 10 guys who lost a house outright plus

The Welsh guy who built on her family land and burnt it down when he was forced to leave.

Retired Dutch dentist did the same, then hired a bulldozer to remove his house before he left.

The Devonshire lady who had a 30 year lease torn up by the land office (bribe).

One guy who lost 4 houses to one lady (village home, townhouse and two investment properties).

A London guy who bought and built using his money, but the lady split 50/50 on divorce.

Another Swedish person who after divorce tried to sell, but his former always finds reason to not sign until the buyer moves on.

One more Manchurian with a lease where the woman died and the family refuse to sign the land sale papers.

French guy who paid for a house, 100rai of paddy, 2 tractors, lost it all after 3 years when marriage failed.

Oh, and an estate agent (realtor) who arranges sales to foreigners, who I asked

"ever had a success where a foreigner bought a house in a gf/wife name, subsequently split, then got all his money back"

His answer "No, not one in my experience"

But up you what you believe.

Edited June 29, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[falang07]

just read any news on the divorce rate in the world

[Maestro]

OK, but not everyone is that lucky like billd766, many marriages end up in divorce after all (no matter how much they have loved each other before, and I am sure as hell they often did). My point was that it would be really nice to have the same rights as my wife, the same as is granted to Thais abroad.

It would be really nice, wouldn't it, it for everything that affects our life there would be one law or rule valid in the whole world. In this era of globalisation, it would make life so much easier.

[marshbags]

Like many others living here I am happy with my lot, appreciate being looked after far more than I would be back home and do not begrudge buying what I can afford as a well deserved thank you to my wife.

I am a great believer in never having more than I can afford to loose here in Thailand and having something to fall back on.

I keep the rest back in the U.K were I know it will be for me should I ever have to return home.

I can walk away content in the knowledge I did my best for my wife and left her with security for the time she has invested in my life.

With no regrets what so ever. and many happy memories to take back with me.

As for Thai law on who owns what ect. ect., it has always been this way and we are, or should have been aware of it along with the worse case scenario / possibilties when coming here.

If it,s hell on earth or develops into it, returning home would be the best advice I could offer anyone.

marshbags

P.S.

Never forget the O.P. could apply anywhere in the world and a fool with his money is just as likely to finish up in a similar way unless the old grey matter and caution is applied until you are into a genuine long term relationship.

Edited June 29, 2012 by marshbags

[TommoPhysicist]

Never forget the O.P. could apply anywhere in the world and a fool with his money is just as likely to finish up in a similar way unless the old grey matter and caution is applied until you are into a genuine long term relationship.

Hard to know that though, in the UK I went for 25 years before being fleeced.

I know an American here, married to a Thai lady 10 years, her Thai husband is still waiting for a result.

[damo]

2 words, due dilligence.

[crille30]

2 words, due dilligence.

Thats the way to do it