Old Expats In Thailand - Possible Hell On Earth?

[cooked]

Well your wife might die before you also. Always have a contingency plan, know what will happen to you if you get into trouble. The UK embassy is not much help I have heard, my Embassy is, for instance. I also have a repatriation insurance in case I can't get adequate medical treatment and another one to get me out if the political situation turns me into a refugee. Not expensive and bears thinking about.

[RubbaJohnny]

Well your wife might die before you also. Always have a contingency plan, know what will happen to you if you get into trouble. The UK embassy is not much help I have heard, my Embassy is, for instance. I also have a repatriation insurance in case I can't get adequate medical treatment and another one to get me out if the political situation turns me into a refugee. Not expensive and bears thinking about.

Who is your insurer please.

Also wonder while I am fine now how those in long term infirmity,cannot drive hospital,hospice etc manage 90 days.

Regardless of cash marital status do sick old foreigners saty in bed until deported or drive under meds to satisfy their visa requuirments

[cooked]

Sorry Johnny, I am Swiss, one of the most over insured countries on earth. I'm insured with Rega and Soliswiss.

I have wondered about your question myself, there must be a lot of desperate, abandoned geezers out there. I think the 90 day thing can be done by post and/or by proxy, never thought about it.

[NancyL]

I've had some experience in working with elderly expats in Chiang Mai. To answer the questions about what happens to the visa if they become ill -- well that can become a problem. As mentioned, 90-day reports can be done by mail and the max fine for failing to do a report is usually 2000 baht if you have a good reason. Most of the private hospitals will take care of doing a 90-day report for a patient, especially if the need is brought to their attention. You may not be able to do that if you're in a coma or otherwise bad off. The public hospital doesn't provide any assistance in doing a 90 day report. The best you can do is to slip a few hundred baht to a friendly nurse and ask her to do it.

As for visa extensions, again that can be a big problem. I've known retired expats who ended up on overstay because their retirement visa extensions expired while they were in hospital, even in a private hospital. These were always expats who were in no shape to realize their visa extension was due and thus, couldn't tell anyone. Once you go onto overstay, you have to leave the country (even briefly) to start the whole process over to get a new retirement visa. If you can't travel, you can get medical extensions for a max of 90 days (1900 extension fee charged every time), but most doctors don't understand the need for doing the paperwork exactly as requested by immigration and/or don't want to commit that you'll be under their care for up to 90 days in the future. This is especially true if you're in a public hospital and seem to be having problems paying your bill. They don't want to be seen as promising that they'll give you care for 90 days.

The moral is to plan ahead. Train a close friend or someone in your household on how to do 90 day reports and visa extensions.

A third party can do a visa extension for someone in the hospital. I've done it several times and all you need is a doctor's letter that the patient is currently in the hospital and get the patient to sign (or thumbprint) a letter authorizing the third party to do the visa extension. Get a few nurses to witness and a few stamps from the hospital. Take that along with a photo of the patient in bed (ghasty, but they always want to see this) and they'll grant the extension of a retirement visa. Of course, the third party also needs to bring the financial proof, i.e. bank letter and/or income letter from consulate. Those are also easy for a third party to obtain, with the authorization letter with the thumb print of the patient and fancy-looking stamps from the hospital.

I could go into much more detail about the plight of elderly expats here, but I'm limiting myself to discussing just the visa issues since this is the visa forum.

[Darrel]

To answer the questions about what happens to the visa if they become ill .....

Probably the most stunningly useful and to-the-point post I have ever read on here.

Well done.

[edwinclapham]

Thanks Nancy thats extremely useful knowledge to have for the olds.. will file that one away!

[HumanitiesEnemy]

My personal life and certain things only told to doctors behind closed doors I find to circulate around the city I live in within a matter of weeks. Racism and discrimination exists everywhere in the world but personally as a westerner who can understand thai at a mediocre level. The only day people didn't gossip about me within an audible proximity was when I went camping with a group of friends on the border of Burma, distant from All Thai People, but very close to many beautiful THAI animals and wildlife...

[david555]

if you realise those things can happen , than also you should make your precautions ... simpel as that .... so the sky does not fall on your head

DO NOT BRING MORE TO THAILAND than what you can loosing whiteout crying (too much) ,

i am not marriyng to get stay permit and have anyway a non o 1 year multiple entry stay visa,

most things you mension can also happen in the west , or there are no divorce lawyers who can make your (ex ) wife a rich woman and you a poor man...??

[damo]

Nursing homes in Thailand for farang, what a gold mine opportunity.

[edwinclapham]

Nursing homes in Thailand for farang, what a gold mine opportunity.

A sanctuary ! I think it would be absolutely wonderful.... also incorporating a "runner" to do the visa run for the olds!

[NancyL]

There are nursing homes and assisted living facilities that cater to foreigners in Thailand. I know of several that cater to people of a specific nationality, like Swiss, German or Japanese. In many cases, the residents are people who were brought to Thailand by their family for the specific purpose of living at the facility -- these facilities are much cheaper than similar facilities in the resident's home countries. These facilities are quite nice, but as you can guess they are quite expensive.

There is one just outside Chiang Mai that has a mix of residents from western and Asian countries plus many Thai residents. It's not quite as luxe as the ones mentioned in the above paragraph, but the place is beautiful and the caregivers very sweet, attentive and plentiful. The cost is much more reasonable -- about 30,000 baht per month for assisted living, i.e. three meals a day, help with showering, dressing, supervision of meds, etc. The cost increases substantially for residents who need constant supervision (like people with dementia who "wander") or more skilled nursing services. There is an excellent physical therapy center on site, but that's extra (reasonable) cost. Of course, someone on staff handles visa maintence.

So, why isn't the place full? Well, if someone is like the OP, i.e. barely able to meet the minimum monthly income required for a marriage visa, then they don't have 30,000 baht/month to spare for excellent quality care. Sometimes, I've seen men who have adequate pensions to cover this, but they've commited to paying for their extended family's vehicles, houses, gambling debts, etc. Sometimes they think they're in a good relationship and the Thai family will always take care of them, but the sad reality is that no one in the family is a trained medical professional, doesn't know how to deal with people with dementia, doesn't have the smarts or interests in understanding the need to manage the taking of medications, can't prepare tasty western food that is easy to eat, doesn't have the patience to help someone who needs assistance in eating, etc. Unfortunately, some of these guys can end up living in the family compound, tied to a post with a rope (like an animal), so they don't go wandering off.

Also, nursing and assisted-care facilities typically require an initial deposit of at least two month's charges, so they have reserves to cover funeral expenses or medical expenses if the resident has to be taken into a full-service hospital.

Yes, Thailand can be a very ugly place to live if you're elderly and don't have money. You can have a very comfortable lifestyle at a reasonable cost, though, with some advance planning.

Edited June 30, 2012 by NancyL

[Colabamumbai]

You are not alone and your fears are justified.

[Colabamumbai]

Many of us who live in Thailand do not have a home to return to in our native countries. When and if we did return, our pensions or income if we had one, could not support us. We would be forced to live in a shelter or beg that the government give us welfare, that we could not live on. That is why we remain in Thailand.

[mike123ca]

Imagine if you are under 50 years of age and your on a marriage visa. Then your wife passes away, it's good-bye visa and please get out of Thailand. It was nice knowing you , don't let the door hit you on the way out.

If your a foreign woman, I would try to get citizenship a.s.a.p. at least and get off the marriage visa. Less hassles in the future.

[Darrel]

Nursing homes in Thailand for farang, what a gold mine opportunity.

There's already one that advertises on Pattaya farang TV.

More will come.

[tartempion]

I had such a neighbor.

His temporary (64 years something) pension was around 20k Baht.

He smoked 80 cigs/day and drank at least 10 bottles of Chang/day.

Had a GF with 10 year youg girl (not his)

No visa, avoided MIB.

Was not living in hell.

When his last days were obvious GF wanted him treated at private hospital although he had no cash.

Farangs obliged and promised to collect funds to pay his hospital bill.

That never materialized.

5 days later private hospital moved him to government hospital where he died a few hours later.

No one cared after that, only his GF was left with the private hospital bill.

His corpse remained in the fridge for months, but I guess he did not care

[billd766]

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

In life one should always hope for the best, but only a fool fails to plan for the worst.

Trust No One ............

(Actually, you can usually trust your parents, but never your wife or children)

I guess that is where we differ.

After all if you don't trust your wife or children then why marry and have children?

If you have the money then be single and a butterfly and perhaps be the richest man in the graveyard.

Not that it makes any difference when you are dead anyway.

[billd766]

1) A foreigner buying a house in his wifes name is against the law, do it and you deserve all you get.

2) A sensible foreigner keeps 800k in a hidden bank account for use in a marital emergency.

Quite frankly I have had a great life and a good 19 years relationship with my Thai wife and if it all ended tomorrow I would wish her all the best for her future life with our son who I would dearly miss, pack my bags and move along.

Unlike a few posters on TVF I came into the marriage knowing that I would not be legally able to own much and of the things I did in my marriage was to ensure that my wife would be well looked after and have a reasonably comfortable life.

An extremely sensible outlook on living in Thailand.

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

We have a joint bank account in Thailand and she can see how much is there at any time she wants.

Also a sensible man who loves and trusts his wife has no need of a hidden bank account.

I have no secrets from my wife and indeed why should I?

It seems from many of your posts you do not trust your wife.

I and many friends who have married Thais don't have this problem.

hey love and trust their families

Are you not aware of the thousands who get ripped off every year, this is the real world not your fancy one in a million situations

You are right and this IS the real world, the one I chose to live in.

Are YOU aware of the thousands who DON'T get ripped off every year becaise they love and trust their families?

Probably not because they may read a thread like this and not comment as they rarely do.

Most threads that describe the people who get ripped off are ones that blame everybody else without looking at themselves.

[TommoPhysicist]

Are YOU aware of the thousands who DON'T get ripped off every year becaise they love and trust their families?

I am completely sure that all those who get ripped off think exactly as you do .......... mainly "I love and trust them so they won't steal from me".

Good luck with your fantasy!

[billd766]

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

I don't believe it is against the law for you to give an unencumbered gift to your Thai wife to buy/build a house and land.

(But I do know of at least one female Thai judge that has ruled this was against the law)

But it is against the law for you to give your wife money to buy land which you then call/consider YOUR house.

This is called a nominee purchase and is strictly against Thai law.

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't remember claiming this as MY house at all and no it is/was not against the law to give my wife the money to buy the land and build the house.

Everything has been done in here name not mine and up here Judges seem to have more common sense than only one female judge elsewhere.

I am not on the blue Tabian ban though I do legally have a yellow tabian ban in my own name.

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

[TommoPhysicist]

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

I actually have a very positive attitude to life.

Life here is good, and I am positive that my planning will continue ensuring that my life is good.

Those who give all their money away to a woman .......... they go home unhappy (eventually).

[NanLaew]

.... But it is against the law for you to give your wife money to buy land which you then call/consider YOUR house.

This is called a nominee purchase and is strictly against Thai law.

So my money was transferred to her account and after I signed the "perjury slip" at the Land Office, she went ahead and bought the land. I then used my money through my account to build the house upon that land, Later, I went to the Amphur with wife and witnesses and they gave me a yellow tibian bahn that states I live there. That means the local government compounded my 'crime' by issuing a legal document that states to all intents and purposes that I live in the house that I paid for that is built on the land that I have stated to belong to the wife and has nothing to do with any money I may have given her, ie. a nominee purchase.

[NanLaew]

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

I actually have a very positive attitude to life.

Life here is good, and I am positive that my planning will continue ensuring that my life is good.

Those who give all their money away to a woman .......... they go home unhappy (eventually).

But in two posts, you alluded to personally knowing of 11 unfortunates who like yourself, were financially hosed in some way or another by their chosen female partner. The odds on that are akin to personally knowing the last 11 Formula 1 Champions. Is it a hobby that keeps you in touch with the similarly scotched, jaded, bitter and twisted?

[Bangkokhatter]

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

I don't believe it is against the law for you to give an unencumbered gift to your Thai wife to buy/build a house and land.

(But I do know of at least one female Thai judge that has ruled this was against the law)

But it is against the law for you to give your wife money to buy land which you then call/consider YOUR house.

This is called a nominee purchase and is strictly against Thai law.

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't remember claiming this as MY house at all and no it is/was not against the law to give my wife the money to buy the land and build the house.

Everything has been done in here name not mine and up here Judges seem to have more common sense than only one female judge elsewhere.

I am not on the blue Tabian ban though I do legally have a yellow tabian ban in my own name.

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

Bild, you should not worry yourself over the views of some bitter and twisted people that spend their time at the keyboard sprouting nonsense. It's good to hear of situations like yours and like you say there are many more like you.

[TommoPhysicist]

But in two posts, you alluded to personally knowing of 11 unfortunates who like yourself, were financially hosed in some way or another by their chosen female partner. The odds on that are akin to personally knowing the last 11 Formula 1 Champions. Is it a hobby that keeps you in touch with the similarly scotched, jaded, bitter and twisted?

Most of them aren't bitter or twisted, as they (like me) had plenty of money and just learn to be more careful next time.

Funny the 'bitter and twisted' insult is always resorted to in the end. When you have loads of money ...... losing a little is no big deal ..... maybe it would make you bitter and twisted, if so, more fool you for gambling something you can't afford to lose.

[billd766]

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

I actually have a very positive attitude to life.

Life here is good, and I am positive that my planning will continue ensuring that my life is good.

Those who give all their money away to a woman .......... they go home unhappy (eventually).

We will never agree on this subject so I will drop it and not respond to any more of your posts on this thread.

[billd766]

I didnt buy my wife a house at all.She had some land up here in the countryside and I gave her the money to buy the land next door.

I paid for the house etc and also for another plot of land that she owns up the road a bit.

Where is it against the law for my wife to own a house and land in her name?

It isn't mine it belongs to my wife and son

If I give her the money to do so and sign it off at the amphur that it was her money it is HER house and land not mine.

I don't believe it is against the law for you to give an unencumbered gift to your Thai wife to buy/build a house and land.

(But I do know of at least one female Thai judge that has ruled this was against the law)

But it is against the law for you to give your wife money to buy land which you then call/consider YOUR house.

This is called a nominee purchase and is strictly against Thai law.

Sorry to disappoint you but I don't remember claiming this as MY house at all and no it is/was not against the law to give my wife the money to buy the land and build the house.

Everything has been done in here name not mine and up here Judges seem to have more common sense than only one female judge elsewhere.

I am not on the blue Tabian ban though I do legally have a yellow tabian ban in my own name.

You seem to have a negative attitude to life when in reality life is good so make the best of it that you can while you are here.

Bild, you should not worry yourself over the views of some bitter and twisted people that spend their time at the keyboard sprouting nonsense. It's good to hear of situations like yours and like you say there are many more like you.

Thank you for your comment and I don't worry or care .that much as I have a real life that I live away from the keyboard.

[Mario2008]

And that concludes the exchange of insults. Let's keep it civil.

[jamescollister]

Was back in OZ a few years ago, friend of mine, 2 years younger then me. He was thinking of taking early retirement and moving here, but had read all the horror stories and kept putting it off so as to make more money just to be safe. Died last year, 2 houses and would have had a good pension if he had live to see it.

Worry about today, tomorrow will take care of itself. Don't get any brownie points for being the riches man in the graveyard. Jim

[TommoPhysicist]

Was back in OZ a few years ago, friend of mine, 2 years younger then me. He was thinking of taking early retirement and moving here, but had read all the horror stories and kept putting it off so as to make more money just to be safe. Died last year, 2 houses and would have had a good pension if he had live to see it.

Worry about today, tomorrow will take care of itself. Don't get any brownie points for being the riches man in the graveyard. Jim

I completely agree, but you can have a good life here without buying land and houses.

Renting is very cheap, and many very nice Thai ladies already have their own properties ......

OK so you spend a little to put in a nice shower and toilet, and some proper furniture.

But when you get to the state of giving your lady money for land, and not keeping enough in your bank for your visa extension ....... beyond daft.

Edited June 30, 2012 by TommoPhysicist