Chiang Mai: Salmonella Strain Might Reinfect Kids

[webfact]

Salmonella strain might reinfect kids

EKKAPONG PRADITPONG

THE NATION

Chiang Mai

CHIANG MAI: -- A drug-resistant strain of Salmonella bacteria, that was found in eggs causing 500 schoolchildren to fall ill, might continue lingering and re-infect them for another three months.

The provincial health office will send a team to tackle the situation and set food-safety measures at all schools in Chiang Mai, especially those that take boarders. The authorities insist that Salmonella-infected eggs have not hit the general markets.

After several cases of severe diarrhoea were reported at Suksa Songkhro Chiang Mai School on Monday, more students were admitted at nine hospitals in the province, bring the number of hospitalised children up to 500 as of yesterday morning. Though 367 were discharged, 127 are still in hospital for septicaemia, which requires the strongest type of antibiotics. A 17-year-old schoolgirl suffered from shock due to severe septicaemia and low blood pressure.

Chiang Mai health official Dr Wattana Kanchanamol said lab tests confirmed that the diarrhoea had been caused by a strain of Salmonella bacteria, which is drug resistant because of antibiotics mixed in chicken feed. The bacteria, living on fowl faeces, contaminated the eggs, he explained. He estimated that 300 of the 10,000 eggs donated to the school were found to be carrying the bacteria, adding that 26 of the patients have already had a relapse and nine had to be hospitalised.

Wattana said that though the bacteria’s 72-hour incubation period has passed, the children would be carrying the bacteria for another three months, hence they might have a relapse or infect others.

A medical team has interviewed the donor's family and collected samples of their faeces to see if they might be carrying the bacteria, he said, declining to reveal the donor's identity on grounds that the donation had been made with good intentions. Meanwhile, livestock officials were dispatched to inspect a chicken farm in Hang Dong district, he added.

Wattana said the donor family had boiled the eggs on Friday and Saturday but instead of refrigerating them, they had stored them on egg trays. On Sunday, they presented the eggs as an offering to the Kruba Sriwichai Monument and later delivered them to schools to serve with dinner the same evening. Some of the eggs also went to nine agencies and a community, and when a student from the Northern Region School for the Blind became ill after eating an egg, authorities managed to alert the donation receivers to get rid of the eggs.

Saying the outbreak had not affected the public at large and markets, he urged people to ensure that all eggs are properly cooked before consumption and always keep them refrigerated because Salmonella grows fast in hot weather.

-- The Nation 2012-07-12

[Xonax]

Antibiotics mixed in animal food is a NO-NO. Boiling the eggs will kill the salmonella, but putting the eggs back in the dirty egg-trays will re-infect the eggs.

More education is urgently needed.

[blueshark]

Antibiotics mixed in animal food is a NO-NO. Boiling the eggs will kill the salmonella, but putting the eggs back in the dirty egg-trays will re-infect the eggs.

More education is urgently needed.

Generally it falls on deaf ears.... they will never change.

[dingdang]

they are selling such eggs in 7/11 too... ate them, was ok...

dont know about antibiotics, but boiled and not cooled for some days...

Edited July 12, 2012 by dingdang

[freedom4life]

Antibiotics mixed in animal food is a NO-NO. Boiling the eggs will kill the salmonella, but putting the eggs back in the dirty egg-trays will re-infect the eggs.

More education is urgently needed.

I agree strongly. I remember my wife's family will store uneatened food in this glass cabinet, without any type of refrigeration! I didn't know I was being served a part of yesterday's food...and recieved the runs, something fierce. It seems the family is immune to something that is heavily unindated with bacteria..I am extrememly careful of eating anywhere in Thailand..these days.

[tigermonkey]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

[RedRoadRunner]

...don't know how many times I had the sh**s here in Thailand from eggs......it's the storage / transport and handling that is wrong spoiling the eggs......

ever seen an 'egg pick-up truck' on the motorway driving around in the blazing sun with eggs on the back??????

recipe for disaster !!!

[soundman]

Post removed from view.

8) Not to post extremely negative views of Thailand or derogatory comments directed towards all Thais.

[cowslip]

THese people aren't just suffering "a dose of the shits" - If you've had salmonella, you'll know it!

THe advice in the UK was, and I guess still is...to cook all eggs through thoroughly.

This means NO RUNNY YOKES etc - only hard boiled and thoroughly fried omelettes etc..........I doubt if this will happen.

As this strain salmonella isn't necessarily wiped out by antibiotics then it can live on inside the victim and the illness's symptoms can re-emerge.

PS - I wonder how people attribute their personal bouts of diarrhoea to any particular food they have just had - probably just guessing?

[cowslip]

...don't know how many times I had the sh**s here in Thailand from eggs......it's the storage / transport and handling that is wrong spoiling the eggs......

ever seen an 'egg pick-up truck' on the motorway driving around in the blazing sun with eggs on the back??????

recipe for disaster !!!

you might want to explain how you think it is "wrong".

[jomtienbob]

You can expect to see much more of this type of thing based on drug resistant and methicillin resistant varieties of bacteria and viruses that are being created and incubated in the factory farms throughout the developing worlds & the USA (EU & Aust have banned it), as they are still using the nasty old habits taught by the greedy western farming corps of old by feeding antibiotics to their animals sub-therapeutically in their feeds. Still today more than 70% of all production of antibiotics (by volume) is created for animal feeds. The drug resistant bacteria are grown and incubated in the intensively farmed animals and surely then find their way to you & children.

Margaret Chan (head of the WHO) made the statement a few months back, that "The age of safe medicine is ending" based primarily on the above-mentioned facts. See here for one report on that: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/health-chief-warns-age-of-safe-medicine-is-ending-7574579.html

This is not a Thailand or Asian problem, this is a human vs 'What the flock do we do now' problem; and it is a problem of our own making.

[tragickingdom]

It is always the same story. Some rich prick, mostly a Rotary member do not want to miss a photo opportunity. They donate sacks of rice, eggs and canned vegetables that are unsellable and expired to schools, prisons or old people homes. Chapeau for the elite that never throws anything away.

[jomtienbob]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

I think what they mean is that once the 72 hour incubation has passed, the child then becomes a 'donor' who will infect others regardless of their symptoms. The problem with drug resistant bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract is that it is incredibly hard to resolve.

[allan michaud]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

...don't know how many times I had the sh**s here in Thailand from eggs......it's the storage / transport and handling that is wrong spoiling the eggs......

ever seen an 'egg pick-up truck' on the motorway driving around in the blazing sun with eggs on the back??????

recipe for disaster !!!

you might want to explain how you think it is "wrong".

Seriously, you don't understand that eggs being slowly cooked in the sun in the back of a pick (or other vehicle) is not a good idea? I think you will find most developed countries refrigerate the eggs from the earliest possible time until they are sold. Common sense.

[tigermonkey]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

I think what they mean is that once the 72 hour incubation has passed, the child then becomes a 'donor' who will infect others regardless of their symptoms. The problem with drug resistant bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract is that it is incredibly hard to resolve.

I agree that a child can be come a carrier or as you say a "donor''. I further agree that it can be extremely difficult to eradicate, but I am still puzzled by their meaning. Salmonella, in general are extremely hardy and can survive for a long time outside of the host, but they can only re-enter the food chain from excretions from that host.

So, if this does not actually mean "reinfect', but means 'infect others', how do the excretions of the infected children get into the food of others?

I suspect that last years extensive flooding may have been responsible for distributing and enlarging this problem, since Salmonella can exist quite well for many months in a wet environment or many weeks in a dry environment. Perhaps we have not seen the last of this problem, and that is what the headline is trying to say.

[tigermonkey]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

...don't know how many times I had the sh**s here in Thailand from eggs......it's the storage / transport and handling that is wrong spoiling the eggs......

ever seen an 'egg pick-up truck' on the motorway driving around in the blazing sun with eggs on the back??????

recipe for disaster !!!

you might want to explain how you think it is "wrong".

Seriously, you don't understand that eggs being slowly cooked in the sun in the back of a pick (or other vehicle) is not a good idea? I think you will find most developed countries refrigerate the eggs from the earliest possible time until they are sold. Common sense.

What I seriously do not understand is that you did not bother to read the words in my post, or you do you not have the ability to comprehend what I wrote ? I said nothing about the things which you reply to. Common sense tells me that I should not have bothered to reply to you !

[johnlandy]

Antibiotics mixed in animal food is a NO-NO. Boiling the eggs will kill the salmonella, but putting the eggs back in the dirty egg-trays will re-infect the eggs.

More education is urgently needed.

Generally it falls on deaf ears.... they will never change.

It would require a transplant

[sirchai]

A 17-year-old schoolgirl suffered from shock due to severe septicaemia and low blood pressure.

So a too high dose of Antibiotics, maybe given intravenous caused a serious blood infection?

The shock seemed to be an "anaphylactic" shock through an overdose of Antibiotics.

They'd killed a friend of us about nine years ago, shooting Antibiotics for three days at one time and that intravenous, instead of on three following days, but intramuscular.

All she had was not a real serious urinal tract infection.

She was only 22 and had two lovely kids. Let's hope the best.-

Edited July 12, 2012 by sirchai

[cowslip]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

...don't know how many times I had the sh**s here in Thailand from eggs......it's the storage / transport and handling that is wrong spoiling the eggs......

ever seen an 'egg pick-up truck' on the motorway driving around in the blazing sun with eggs on the back??????

recipe for disaster !!!

you might want to explain how you think it is "wrong".

Seriously, you don't understand that eggs being slowly cooked in the sun in the back of a pick (or other vehicle) is not a good idea? I think you will find most developed countries refrigerate the eggs from the earliest possible time until they are sold. Common sense.

so what do you think is happening to the eggs? (cooking is fine)

[jaideecm]

I eat eggs regularly as part of my body building program. i get them from my local market and they are fresh as the yokes and whites are not runny but firm, no problems.

Randy

[belg]

ah Salmonella and chiang mai ... both my kids got infected by eating in a not so good class restaurant... 3 to 6 months of daily diariah, but no need for antibiotics, said the pediatrician... just have to sick it out and no antibiotics will help anyway

[jomtienbob]

I don't really understand the headline " might reinfect kids " -- have these kids who were infected already been infected at another time ? --- or are the kids whio were infected expecting to receive another infection ? -- if so from where ? and when ? The article really does not address anything about reinfection.

Can anyone help and explain to me just what this means.

I think what they mean is that once the 72 hour incubation has passed, the child then becomes a 'donor' who will infect others regardless of their symptoms. The problem with drug resistant bacteria in the gastrointestinal tract is that it is incredibly hard to resolve.

I agree that a child can be come a carrier or as you say a "donor''. I further agree that it can be extremely difficult to eradicate, but I am still puzzled by their meaning. Salmonella, in general are extremely hardy and can survive for a long time outside of the host, but they can only re-enter the food chain from excretions from that host.

So, if this does not actually mean "reinfect', but means 'infect others', how do the excretions of the infected children get into the food of others?

I suspect that last years extensive flooding may have been responsible for distributing and enlarging this problem, since Salmonella can exist quite well for many months in a wet environment or many weeks in a dry environment. Perhaps we have not seen the last of this problem, and that is what the headline is trying to say.

Actually young children are much more susceptible to Salmonella in much smaller amounts and as the bacteria is also spread in the vomit and sometimes bodily fluids like saliva, the likelihood of tertiary transmission among young kids is high in communities that aren't as Hygiene aware or trained. I think they are really referring to (although not specified) children that had recovered from the early illness symptoms however still harbor the pathogen, which is apparently drug resistant (and one assumes also resistant to iodine - as eggs are sprayed with it when laid so as to prevent bacterial growth) and therefore has a possibility of still being able to be passed onto other kids as they share food and drinks in schools and communities etc.

[jomtienbob]

I think you have missed the main point by miles. Eggs are usually treated/sprayed with iodine once they are laid. This is to prevent any bacterial growth on the shell which soon migrates through the porous exterior into the inner mass where it rapidly reproduces. The form of Salmonella here is drug resistant so one assumes that it is resistant to the iodine as well, which means that it is getting through into the eggs. Refrigeration does not kill Salmonella it just slows its growth rate. The transportation methods in Thailand are surely not the cause, it is the preventative strategy at the producer that isn't working. Let's hope they forgot to spray 300 of the 10,000 eggs eh? otherwise there could well be a much bigger problem lurking...

[PoodMaiDai]

Cooking them thoroughly will kill the bacteria? I more or less burn my eggs when I cook them. Never had any problems.

[Baloo22]

I've been wondering for a while about the frequency of Salmonella and diseases like it being spread by eggs here in Thailand. At home, in supermarkets and food stores, eggs are always stored under refrigeration. Even with such care, there are occasional cases of Salmonella infections/outbreaks spread via eggs. Here, even in supermarkets that cater to foreigners, I've observed that eggs are almost always out in the open and not refrigerated.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Baloo22

[jsflynn603]

I think you have missed the main point by miles. Eggs are usually treated/sprayed with iodine once they are laid. This is to prevent any bacterial growth on the shell which soon migrates through the porous exterior into the inner mass where it rapidly reproduces. The form of Salmonella here is drug resistant so one assumes that it is resistant to the iodine as well, which means that it is getting through into the eggs. Refrigeration does not kill Salmonella it just slows its growth rate. The transportation methods in Thailand are surely not the cause, it is the preventative strategy at the producer that isn't working. Let's hope they forgot to spray 300 of the 10,000 eggs eh? otherwise there could well be a much bigger problem lurking...

About the most common misconception of samomellosis, is people thinking that the bacteria was on the outside of the egg.

In fact, though this was true a century ago, this form of food poisoning is actually extremely rare.

Today, 99%+ of commercial eggs that are contaminated with salmonella are contaminated "within" (=inside) the egg.

The bacteria does not migrate from the outside to the inside, it is introduced at conception and during the formation of the egg--it is not a fecal transfer--it is simply a bacteria commensal (normal) and harmless to the chicken. Some chickens have commensal salmonella, but ones that do will produce eggs, some of which have salmonella within the eggs. Egg laying chickens should not have commensal salmonella.

Salmonella is a commensal bacteria common to birds. The bacteria can exist and does not make the bird ill. But a chicken that has salmonella can produce eggs with salmonella inside the egg. Eating an undercooked egg with such bacteria then infects the human eating it.

To give you an idea of how seriously ANY salmonella found in chickens can be taken by breeders I'll use Hubbard Farms of Walpole, NH, USA as an example. Hubbard is one of the world's leading breeder of specific egg-layer chicks, and they ship world-wide.

Every day, one piece of straw from every hen's nest is taken. Each piece of straw is used to innoculate a petri dish with proper media. If one single colony of salmonella emerges, even just one single colony, from one single chicken in a house that holds many thousands of hens--every single chicken in that house is destroyed. The house is then cleaned, fumigated, and new, salmonella free chickens are started. This is how seriously Hubbard takes ANY salmonella in their chickens. Though birds often are commensalized with salmonella, it is essential that the chickens who produce eggs for human consumption have NO salmonella.

I hope that this was traced back to the producer, and that the commensalized chickens have been destroyed--if not, then this will occur again.

If you doubt that most salmonellosis is caused from within eggs, not on the outside, seach "salmonella inside eggs."

Edited July 12, 2012 by jsflynn603

[chiangmaicharlies]

...don't know how many times I had the sh**s here in Thailand from eggs......it's the storage / transport and handling that is wrong spoiling the eggs......

ever seen an 'egg pick-up truck' on the motorway driving around in the blazing sun with eggs on the back??????

recipe for disaster !!!

I eat an egg most days - never had a problem in 15 years - shows we're all different and our opinions different, but some more eager to comment than others.

[tigermonkey]

I think you have missed the main point by miles. Eggs are usually treated/sprayed with iodine once they are laid. This is to prevent any bacterial growth on the shell which soon migrates through the porous exterior into the inner mass where it rapidly reproduces. The form of Salmonella here is drug resistant so one assumes that it is resistant to the iodine as well, which means that it is getting through into the eggs. Refrigeration does not kill Salmonella it just slows its growth rate. The transportation methods in Thailand are surely not the cause, it is the preventative strategy at the producer that isn't working. Let's hope they forgot to spray 300 of the 10,000 eggs eh? otherwise there could well be a much bigger problem lurking...

About the most common misconception of samomellosis, is people thinking that the bacteria was on the outside of the egg.

In fact, though this was true a century ago, this form of food poisoning is actually extremely rare.

Today, 99%+ of commercial eggs that are contaminated with salmonella are contaminated "within" (=inside) the egg.

The bacteria does not migrate from the outside to the inside, it is introduced at conception and during the formation of the egg--it is not a fecal transfer--it is simply a bacteria commensal (normal) and harmless to the chicken. Some chickens have commensal salmonella, but ones that do will produce eggs, some of which have salmonella within the eggs. Egg laying chickens should not have commensal salmonella.

Salmonella is a commensal bacteria common to birds. The bacteria can exist and does not make the bird ill. But a chicken that has salmonella can produce eggs with salmonella inside the egg. Eating an undercooked egg with such bacteria then infects the human eating it.

To give you an idea of how seriously ANY salmonella found in chickens can be taken by breeders I'll use Hubbard Farms of Walpole, NH, USA as an example. Hubbard is one of the world's leading breeder of specific egg-layer chicks, and they ship world-wide.

Every day, one piece of straw from every hen's nest is taken. Each piece of straw is used to innoculate a petri dish with proper media. If one single colony of salmonella emerges, even just one single colony, from one single chicken in a house that holds many thousands of hens--every single chicken in that house is destroyed. The house is then cleaned, fumigated, and new, salmonella free chickens are started. This is how seriously Hubbard takes ANY salmonella in their chickens. Though birds often are commensalized with salmonella, it is essential that the chickens who produce eggs for human consumption have NO salmonella.

I hope that this was traced back to the producer, and that the commensalized chickens have been destroyed--if not, then this will occur again.

If you doubt that most salmonellosis is caused from within eggs, not on the outside, seach "salmonella inside eggs."

Just a note --- salmonella can not be introduced to an egg for human consumption at the time of "conception". These eggs ar unfertilized -- there is NO conception. Either Wiki is wrong or you misunderstood.

Treating the fresh laid eggs with iodine is not done much in Thailand, except in the large 'egg factories'. It is of no use in eradicating exterior salmonella in any case.

Edited July 12, 2012 by tigermonkey

[sirchai]

Egg laying chickens should not have commensal salmonella.

What if they would?

[biplanebluey]

Antibiotics mixed in animal food is a NO-NO. Boiling the eggs will kill the salmonella, but putting the eggs back in the dirty egg-trays will re-infect the eggs.

More education is urgently needed. Me No Understand------------ you boil the eggs and then put them back into the egg trays ?????