Do Thai People Don'T Like It If We Speak Thai To Them?

[crimson23]

Hi there,

I'm learning Thai now for more then a year and spend a lot of time every day on learning it (3-4 hours).

Sometimes when I'm in Thailand I have Thai people help me in the local laundry shop and they are very nice people and I have someone online that helps me once in a while with sentences.

One of the owners of a laundry shop a very nice woman that I know for about 4 years now and that speaks a little a bit of English tells me that I should be careful using Thai.

I asked why and she said to me that most Thai don't like it when foreigners speak Thai.

Ofcourse I was in disbelieve first but then another customer that overheard the conversation tells me that it is true and she knows of this woman who has a foreign husband who speaks Thai and that woman doesn't like him speaking Thai at all.

I still had this feeling this must be an exception or something like that so I e-mail to a girl I know who works in Bangkok at a large hotel and deals with a lot of foreigners and asked her the same question. She confirmed that many times she heard this before. She told me that a lot of Thai that she knows think that foreigners that speak Thai are arrogant and are bad people.

I was completely stunned when I heard this because when I speak Spanish in South America people love that I speak the language and want you to speak it an it opens a lot of doors.

In France they demand that you speak french and in my country we really appreciate it when somebody has learned the language.

I remember when I met another foreigner 4 years ago that he told me don't bother to learn the language here they don't like it when you can speak it and I thought he was just a negative person and forgot about him.

I also read in a book about learning languages that Japanese find it an invasion when foreigners speak Japanese and it is something that belongs to them alone.

Maybe this is also the same with the Thai?

This kind of cripples my motivation that is why I decided to post this and ask your opinion.

I hope some people here are kind enough to give me there experiences on this subject.

Thanks for reading this.

[Deke]

My experience is that most Thai people appreciate it when you try to learn/speak the language. I use it daily in my work and nobody has ever told me that they would prefer I speak English.

Of course if you are a beginner at learning Thai, practicalities enter into the equation and it may be easier to communicate in English.

[Murf]

A lot of people who learn Thai, learn it in the wrong environment... i.e Bar Girl Thai.

Speaking like you speak with a Bar Girl to almost anyone outside of this scene will be frowned upon.

I am always polite when i speak and i have never come across anyone that takes offence at my ability, quite the opposite, they are usually impressed.

If you speak rudely and do not address people correctly and do not add "krap" to the end of your sentences, then maybe some people won't be too happy.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Murf

[stoneyboy]

A lot of people who learn Thai, learn it in the wrong environment... i.e Bar Girl Thai.

Speaking like you speak with a Bar Girl to almost anyone outside of this scene will be frowned upon.

I am always polite when i speak and i have never come across anyone that takes offence at my ability, quite the opposite, they are usually impressed.

Can you elaborate on the bar girl Thai,what type of things should I listen out for when I next hear a westerner speak Thai,it will great fun telling them I know there dirty little secret.

[villagefarang]

You are hanging around with the wrong sort of people if they don’t like those who speak Thai. Most of the Thais I meet, even casually, are pleased that I speak Thai and breath a sigh of relief at being able to speak with me as they would anyone else. There is something very wrong when people prefer those they can’t communicate with.

[llso]

Having lived and worked and worked in Thailand for many years since 2000,I had learned to speak Thai quite well. This is difficult due to the tonal nature of the language. It was rather easy for me and some have said that I have a knack for language. In my case it was a necessity as I was dropped off in a remote jungle with people who spoke zero English to build and manage a factory.

In my experience Thai's are generally amused if a Farang can speak decent Thai. In some instances if they do not want to deal with you they will pretend that they do not understand. The majority of them seem pleased that you have taken the effort to learn their language. It will definitely open up a new way of looking at Thailand. I found myself even beginning to think in Thai. If I find that a Thai speaks pretty good English I will usually just speak to them in English. You will also hear some of the negative comments made about Farangs when they think you cannot understand. Probably the only downside to learning the Language. Some people live for years in Thailand and never learn more than a few phrases or words in Thai. Well woth the effort if you intend to live in Thailand. One of the things I found very useful in learniong Thai was to watch Thai TV.

LL

Edited July 18, 2012 by llso

[edwinclapham]

I have never usually experienced a problem speaking Thai with Thais. If there is a problem then it is generally with someone who has something to hide.

It is a very useful tool to have under your belt.

[lanny]

You do have to be careful when dealing with some Thais - particularly in places like a store or restaurant or hotel. If they have approached you and spoken in English, to reply in Thai can seem to make them lose face. To them, you may be implying that their English is not good - particularly if your Thai is not fluent.

[Mind]

I think that there are three main reasons for thais not want us to speak thai.

Reason one:

You use wrong tones all the time and thais have really bad problems to understand you, often while you think you speak good thai because of the constant compliments you get.

Reason two:

You speak rude bargirlthai and this is not appropriate in many situations. Its is like saying "Yoh bitch" to your stepmother.

Reason three:

Speaking thai means that you know to much and that you are not an easy prey.

I think reason one and two are the top reasons that thais don't want a farang to speak thai. Reason three is more often found in tourist areas where "hookers" and traders want you to pay fantasy prices, or taxidrivers want you to take the gem ride.

Reason one and two are avoidable through visiting a school and learn "bangkok"-thai. Reason three is a feature because the scammers will let you more alone.

Edited July 18, 2012 by Mind

[roamer]

A lot of people who learn Thai, learn it in the wrong environment... i.e Bar Girl Thai.

Speaking like you speak with a Bar Girl to almost anyone outside of this scene will be frowned upon.

I am always polite when i speak and i have never come across anyone that takes offence at my ability, quite the opposite, they are usually impressed.

Can you elaborate on the bar girl Thai,what type of things should I listen out for when I next hear a westerner speak Thai,it will great fun telling them I know there dirty little secret.

??? If you can understand Thai then you shouldn't have a problem distinguishing bar girl Thai. If you need to be told what you have to listen out for then you shouldn't be thinking;

"it will great fun telling them I know there dirty little secret."

It might be your bloody nose.

To the OP. In almost 30 years of speaking Thai i have only ever encountered resentment in the circumstances "Mind" outlined above, though never in the case of tones . Tones are rarely ,if ever, a cause of miscommunication, the context of the sentence will always make the meaning clear.

Keep up with the Thai!!!

Edited July 18, 2012 by roamer

[crimson23]

Thanks for the comments this really gives me my motivation back and gets rid of the strange concept that Thai natives would not be happy that we would learn there language.

I always make sure I stay away from slang or street language because I can understand that this can not only look stupid to a native but also offensive.

And to be honest I don't even like to hear it in my own language.

I learn my Thai watching documentaries so not much bargirl thai or slang will be involved

I think also as a basic rule it is better not to learn anything bad in a language that way I can never use it.

I also draw the same conclusion that some of you made clear here that if they don't like people to speak Thai then they are maybe not so honest like some shopkeepers or people that like to charge extra for electricity etc..

My guideline will be if they don't like it I'll be better off renting somewhere else or buying at another shop.

I'm very pleased that I posted this question because it was bugging me and the doubt is now gone.

I will go one with my journey in mastering this language and a long journey it will be

thank you all very much for your time to answer this question

Edited July 18, 2012 by crimson23

[ripstanley]

In the village there is not much English. The locals love it when I learn a new words and practice them. My wife always trying to teach me new words.

[Mind]

To the OP. In almost 30 years of speaking Thai i have only ever encountered resentment in the circumstances "Mind" outlined above, though never in the case of tones . Tones are rarely ,if ever, a cause of miscommunication, the context of the sentence will always make the meaning clear.

Keep up with the Thai!!!

Hmmm, i am only a thai beginner, but i have strong doubt about your statement that the contect of the sentence will always make the meaning clear. Yes, you can see out of the context that you talking about a shirt and not about a tiger. But how will you see out of the context if something is near or far away?

Here is a quote of Hugh Leong from a women learn thai interview:

What is the biggest misconception for students learning Thai?

The biggest mistake people have is not to stress the importance of Thai tones. In my opinion, if you get the tones wrong, no matter how much they are smiling at you, no matter how much vocabulary you know, no matter how well you read and write, no one will understand a word you say. Let me change that a bit. If you have someone you spend lots of time with, your partner, paramour, maid, golf caddie, they may be able to "decipher" incorrect tones and guess what you mean. That becomes more of an idiolect, your own personal language, which can be understood by only a few.

Here is why tones are so important. The sounds of English can be divided into 3 very important parts, consonants, vowels, and intonation. If you get any of these wrong then the person listening will have trouble understanding you. For instance, let's say we have trouble with our consonants. You want to say "Your life is fine," but you confuse the consonants and come out with "Your wife is mine", only two small consonant changes. But if you say this to the wrong person you will quickly see how important consonants are in English. In this case we say that the change in consonants is "morphemic", it changes the word's meaning. I don't think that anyone would say that it is unimportant to learn the English consonants and vowels. Then why do some people insist that Thai tones are not essential to being able to speak and be understood?

In Thai, tones are just as important as consonants and vowels. Changes in Thai tones cause "morphemic" changes in the words. They mean something different. If one speaks toneless Thai it is the same as saying all English words using only one consonant. "Your life is fine" becomes "Tour Tife is Tine".

No wonder Thais look at us incomprehensibly at times. I'm not saying learning Thai tones is going to be easy. I still get those looks sometimes. And when I do, I don't blame the listener for not understanding me. I know I just have to work a little harder at it. In one of my favorite books, Alice in Wonderland, Alice and Humpty Dumpty have a discussion as to whether "Saying what you mean" is the same as "Meaning what you say". I never could figure out who was right. But I do know that if we don't use the correct tones when speaking Thai we will always be meaning one thing and saying another.

http://womenlearntha...ers-hugh-leong/

[wrevelate]

i am so pleased to hear about all the wonderful experiences from everybody.

thank you for sharing your positivity. may the quest continue.

i too study 3-4 hours everyday. i have a lot of thai friends who speak thai and only thai with me based solely on the fact that i ve asked them to, and despite them speaking excellent english. so, they are out there. my girlfriend for example has not spoken english with me in 6 months.

[Learned]

To the OP. In almost 30 years of speaking Thai i have only ever encountered resentment in the circumstances "Mind" outlined above, though never in the case of tones . Tones are rarely ,if ever, a cause of miscommunication, the context of the sentence will always make the meaning clear.

Hmmm, i am only a thai beginner, but i have strong doubt about your statement that the contect of the sentence will always make the meaning clear. Yes, you can see out of the context that you talking about a shirt and not about a tiger. But how will you see out of the context if something is near or far away?

Here is a quote of Hugh Leong from a women learn thai interview:

I took a double take too when I read that incorrect tones don't cause problems.

Great link, really shows the importance of the tones in a way we can understand and relate to.

[Bpraim1]

Never met a thai person that didn't like me speaking thai, Unless they were up to something. Everyone has been very helpful.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

[meadish_sweetball]

About the tones, if you master correct sentence structure, the tones do become less important. At that stage, incorrect tones can still cause misunderstandings, but it is less likely since the listener has more information available to guess what you are on about.

But that happens at a relatively late stage, and many foreigners never achieve an idiomatic grammar and sentence structure.

At the beginner's stage, when you operate in one/two/three word sentences, tones and vowel length are crucial. So doing the drills to learn them properly from the outset is my best advice.

[meadish_sweetball]

As for the OP's question, I agree with what Mind said.

Also would like to add that perceived rudeness differs between cultures because the norms for polite behaviour are not the same.

For some Thais, just being straightforward in the wrong situation can cause offense. They know English is different than Thai, and since the vast majority of them don't master it, they just try to get the gist of what you say, and are less likely to take offense.

But when you speak Thai and you say the same things, in the same way you would say them in English, offense is much more likely to be taken, because your speech will seem more blunt.

So until you have many years of cultural awareness and experience of using the language in context, err on the side of politeness, and avoid being too critical. You will not get away with being as critical as some Thais can be of their peers, and to aggressively or assertively speak in broken Thai is not something most Thais will appreciate. Especially not if you are young - age is very important here. Then again, in some situations, you do have to stand your ground regardless. Just be aware of the potential consequences.

[crimson23]

I think the Thai are the opposite of the South Americans where they don't like it to much when people are very polite in there speech.

I had to get used to that first and then I discovered that you make good friends there very quickly they are so open and friendly.

They hardly use the polite forms there even with strangers.

But with Thai I think one can not be careful enough and be polite enough.

I'm still a beginner and I make sure I stay away from particles they are so tricky and can offend somebody easily.

I once made the mistake to correct the spelling of a Thai word and even though I know this person for many years she took somewhat offense. I was right and the spelling was incorrect that she showed me but that was not the point It is a loss of face for a Thai and just one of those things you better not do as a foreigner. Would this have been another country and culture it could be that they would have no problem with that sort of a correction and would laugh about it. Thai are different and I learned my lesson.

I'm afraid more lessons will come but I try to read as much as possible on culture and that helps a lot.

Just my 2 cents when ik comes to politeness

Edited July 21, 2012 by crimson23

[Grumbles]

I believe most honest Thai people appreciate it if you make the effort to learn their language. I walked into a motorbike showroom and the guy in there asked me (in Thai) if I spoke Thai. When I replied (also in Thai) that I spoke a little but was still learning, he said in perfect English "That's OK then, I'll speak English." He told me that he got really annoyed by foreigners who he sees around town all the time who come in and expect him to speak English and make no attempt to speak Thai.

He believes if you are living here you should at least make an attempt to speak Thai. A sentiment I fully agree with.

Good luck with your studies.

[crimson23]

Grumbles I couldn't agree with you more.

I think the Thai shopkeeper has a good point. When you live in a country where they speak another language you have to learn it and you can't demand or take for granted that people will speak English or want to speak English all the time.

This is a very good example you gave here.

Thanks for your comment

[Aforek]

In my experience, where it is usual to speak english ( immigration, doctor, dentist ), I have noticed that they don't like that I speak thai, so I speak english ( which is not my language );

otherwise, I have heard some thai bar girls saying that usualy they don't like farangs who speak thai, because they know too much about thai people, but I have started to learn thai with bar girls, because they where not at ease with english and I don't think their thai is so horrible and umpolite and I have learned very much with them

for the story of tones, of course it's better to use the right tone, but the context is important and helps to be understood, and also the use of the correct length of vowels is important

The only place in Thailand where people in the tourist places refused absolutely to speak thai with me was Ko Chang ; I was very disapointed.

Edited July 22, 2012 by Aforek

[overherebc]

A lot of people who learn Thai, learn it in the wrong environment... i.e Bar Girl Thai.

Speaking like you speak with a Bar Girl to almost anyone outside of this scene will be frowned upon.

I am always polite when i speak and i have never come across anyone that takes offence at my ability, quite the opposite, they are usually impressed.

Can you elaborate on the bar girl Thai,what type of things should I listen out for when I next hear a westerner speak Thai,it will great fun telling them I know there dirty little secret.

That one is a minefield. As soon as 'the bar girl type' your description, think you understand they revert to lao or whatever. Learn Thai, listen and don't talk, amazing what you find out.

Edited July 22, 2012 by overherebc

[BirdsandBooze]

I`ve never had any Thais showing resentfulness when I speak Thai with them. I think I`m very fortunate in that I never formally learnt Thai but became competent through immersion. The different tones came to me in the way a child listens to their mother and naturally mimics her speech without giving it a second thought. Many years ago I learnt Castillian Spanish in a classroom environment and found the inflection quite difficult at times. I was mildly pleased when on my travels in Spain to hear native speakers occasionally make mistakes. Keep on learning, it`ll open up a whole new dimension to life here.

[msg362]

I try to speak Thai locally to villagers, often ,even if I'm saying things that are not difficult tonally and simple to understand, they smile, nod and give up. The most recent example was the maid next door (?? hill tribe, possibly never spoken to a farang before??) I tried to ask about the missing cat, she took off without hesitation and got someone else. This often happens with older people in the local market. Asking how much meat was , in my poor Thai 'kit la taurai?' which should mean 100 grammes how much? I got a smile. Saying the same thing to a younger person got me the answer.

I suspect many Thais, especially those that have little exposure to farangs or are old just get scared, smile and hope I'll go away.

[mca]

I've found that the locals working in the mom and pop shops, gas stations, noodle stalls etc are pleased and relieved when you go in and start speaking Thai as their English is either next to nothing or non-existent.

[wrevelate]

About the tones, if you master correct sentence structure, the tones do become less important. At that stage, incorrect tones can still cause misunderstandings, but it is less likely since the listener has more information available to guess what you are on about.

But that happens at a relatively late stage, and many foreigners never achieve an idiomatic grammar and sentence structure.

At the beginner's stage, when you operate in one/two/three word sentences, tones and vowel length are crucial. So doing the drills to learn them properly from the outset is my best advice.

hi im wondering if you know a teacher or a school who is particularly good at drilling and practising tones and vowels, and pronunciation in general. For the most part i study independently (actually i study at a school on saturday mornings, but the school, i believe severely neglects the importance of smoothing out the accent of a foreigner), and i would benefit from having an experienced teacher or school to help with pronunciation.

thanks