http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19312378

The UK has just revealed the design of new warships, expected to come into service in 2020.

What can the navy do which cannot be done better by the RAF? Or should the navy be retained for a non-combat role? (evacuation of earthquake victims, for example)

Go to the Falklands?

Doh! Its job is to rule the waves....

The Navy can carry large numbers of troops, weapons, tanks, aircraft and other supplies and operate as a floating base.

The Navy can carry large numbers of troops, weapons, tanks, aircraft and other supplies and operate as a floating base.

Put all your goodies in one spot, and it's easy for an enemy to zap them. This used to be what the Navy was for, but it seems to have become less and less viable. In a modern war, you cripple the enemy long-range (or the enemy cripples you), and then you no longer need an offshore base. If it's a purely land war, as one might suppose a Middle East conflict would be, the Navy can't do much.

In any case, little ships like the British are planning to build would not be of very much use.

Doh! Its job is to rule the waves....

Considering that's about all we do rule these days.... oh, I'd forgotten the Falklands and Tristan da Cunha.

The Navy can carry large numbers of troops, weapons, tanks, aircraft and other supplies and operate as a floating base.

Put all your goodies in one spot, and it's easy for an enemy to zap them. This used to be what the Navy was for, but it seems to have become less and less viable. In a modern war, you cripple the enemy long-range (or the enemy cripples you), and then you no longer need an offshore base. If it's a purely land war, as one might suppose a Middle East conflict would be, the Navy can't do much.

In any case, little ships like the British are planning to build would not be of very much use.

I am no expert on this but usually the small ships support big ones (aircraft carriers) and I am guessing that it will not be long until our ships have effective missile defense and they already can defend against aircraft.

I think submarines can go under water, and stay there a long long time, Aircraft can have problems operating once submerged.

If we were still an agressive nation, policing the world, then we would need boots on the ground to retain possession of the territory occupied.

However, Britain should not be thinking along such lines (Bliar and Camoron please note)(and especially little Willy Hague) but should be developing a defence force only - as Japan and Israel. Strong, yes, but reactive to perceived threats to the homeland only.

No rubbish like Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya or Syria. Let them sort their own problems out - the oil will still flow after the dust settles.

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

Yes, I was in the RAF, stationed at RAF Changi... and have a medal to show for it.

Just how much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

Yes, I was in the RAF, stationed at RAF Changi... and have a medal to show for it.

Just how much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

I got a medal as well so lets not start that game. How much bombing do the crabs do that SHOULD be done by Fixed Wing FAA aircraft? The whole reason is that the hierarchy in light blue nylon suits (RAF) have better lobbying in Parliament.

Look at how much trade is carried out worldwide across oceans and tell me that there doesn't have to be a system in place to cover that trade and please don't harp on about long range air support, like the 100 year experiment that the raf is, its a joke that should be put to bed.

As a final reminder the Royal Navy IS the Senior Service followed by the Army, both branches steeped in traditions as opposed to Ryan Air Farce who have just had time to acquire some bad habits.

P.S. Is it not so telling that without meeting you I knew you to be a crab.

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

Yes, I was in the RAF, stationed at RAF Changi... and have a medal to show for it.

Just how much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

I got a medal as well so lets not start that game. .

Depending on your age one medal from your time in the Army suggests that it is likely to be a NI medal or possibly a LS&GC, other possibilities are a UN gong or if you are a little older a Malaya medal. Which is it?

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

Yes, I was in the RAF, stationed at RAF Changi... and have a medal to show for it.

Just how much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

I got a medal as well so lets not start that game. .

Depending on your age one medal from your time in the Army suggests that it is likely to be a NI medal or possibly a LS&GC, other possibilities are a UN gong or if you are a little older a Malaya medal. Which is it?

You got the branch of the armed forces wrong and I am obviously considerably younger than you imagine.

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

Yes, I was in the RAF, stationed at RAF Changi... and have a medal to show for it.

Just how much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

I got a medal as well so lets not start that game. How much bombing do the crabs do that SHOULD be done by Fixed Wing FAA aircraft? The whole reason is that the hierarchy in light blue nylon suits (RAF) have better lobbying in Parliament.

Look at how much trade is carried out worldwide across oceans and tell me that there doesn't have to be a system in place to cover that trade and please don't harp on about long range air support, like the 100 year experiment that the raf is, its a joke that should be put to bed.

As a final reminder the Royal Navy IS the Senior Service followed by the Army, both branches steeped in traditions as opposed to Ryan Air Farce who have just had time to acquire some bad habits.

P.S. Is it not so telling that without meeting you I knew you to be a crab.

Bizarre! I ask a question about the RN and RabC turns it into an attack on the RAF.

Planning for the future defence of our country does not depend on traditions; it depends on what tools we need for the job. These days the tools are aircraft, with a land force to back them up. I simply want to know what role the RN has to play, if any... and it's not very convincing to tell me that it will use the Fleet Air Arm!

OP.Just do some homework before asking questions like that , spouted like a true RAF arm chair warrior. How much Global Trade is carried out by sea, answer that then think if your question is worthy of a reply

Yes, I was in the RAF, stationed at RAF Changi... and have a medal to show for it.

Just how much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

I got a medal as well so lets not start that game. How much bombing do the crabs do that SHOULD be done by Fixed Wing FAA aircraft? The whole reason is that the hierarchy in light blue nylon suits (RAF) have better lobbying in Parliament.

Look at how much trade is carried out worldwide across oceans and tell me that there doesn't have to be a system in place to cover that trade and please don't harp on about long range air support, like the 100 year experiment that the raf is, its a joke that should be put to bed.

As a final reminder the Royal Navy IS the Senior Service followed by the Army, both branches steeped in traditions as opposed to Ryan Air Farce who have just had time to acquire some bad habits.

P.S. Is it not so telling that without meeting you I knew you to be a crab.

Bizarre! I ask a question about the RN and RabC turns it into an attack on the RAF.

Planning for the future defence of our country does not depend on traditions; it depends on what tools we need for the job. These days the tools are aircraft, with a land force to back them up. I simply want to know what role the RN has to play, if any... and it's not very convincing to tell me that it will use the Fleet Air Arm!

And how is the fuel for the aircraft or food for the troops going to get to our Green and Pleasant Land?

You seem to have a very shortsighted view of what would be needed to defend the UK.

By freighter, no thanks to the RN. I repeat, How much convoy duty does the RN do these days?

Serves me right, I must remember not to feed the trolls.

Ironically if we are talking redundant branches of the military the RAF is the prime candidate.

Fold the RAF back into the Army, they already fly drones and manned flight is rapidly vanishing as a viable concept in fighting scenarios. The transport arm folds into the loggies to have a single logistic organization and the AAC can play with the Chinooks, Merlins etc rather than just their Apaches, Lynx etc

An air force is a land based organization unless carrier borne and there the FAA can pick up the strain as before.

So bye bye RAF, not even 100 years old!

Rab, apologies for mistaking you for a previous member of the superior (if not senior) branch of the military, and for thinking you fitted the typical TV profile of an octogenarian with too much time on their hands, who of course served in Vietnam in the special forces ( or perhaps that just applies to Pattaya types!)

Re the roles of the RN what appears to have been overlooked is the fact that they have the only nuclear delivery system in the UK military plus a serious stand off capability in launching cruise missiles as seen in recent conflicts.

Other useful contributions are the SBS and Royal Marines, 2 highly professional and effective organizations.

The RAF has the RAF Regiment which doesn't exactly match up and at least in my day were referred to as ALTGNIs (pronounced altergenies) which stands for All the Gear, No Idea!

Someone mentioned escort duties today, try Op Atalanta off Somalia.

Similarly Argentina rattles it's saber re the Falklands (always a clear sign of domestic issues getting out of hand) and so the RN sends a sub to remind them of the Belgrano, and the crabs send Prince William.

Thanks, Folium, for some answers! I have no objection to the RAF being called redundant if it is so.

My OP question was an open one; I'm sorry if it sounded like a way of saying the RN was obsolete... but I didn't expect abusive and blustering posts like those of RabC. Ah well, it takes all sorts to make a forum!

Thanks, Folium, for some answers! I have no objection to the RAF being called redundant if it is so.

My OP question was an open one; I'm sorry if it sounded like a way of saying the RN was obsolete... but I didn't expect abusive and blustering posts like those of RabC. Ah well, it takes all sorts to make a forum!

Isanbirder. I took your original question to be offensive because if you can find the artical on the BBC you could also use the Internet to find the present commitments that the RN has including but not limited to :

Afghanistan

Persian Gulf / Straits of Homuz

East Africa anti piracy

Caribbean anti drugs

Falklands

Permanent Nuclear Deterant

Plus wherever HM Government want the sabre rattling or force showing. Whilst the crabs were bombing Libya the RN was engaging the locals with shore bombardments.

A point you may not know the RN were the last official British Contingent to leave Iraq.

You are perfectly correct that the RN isn't delivering the logistics that I mentioned but in time of conflict those supply lines would require protecting.

I think you will find that if you speak to either RN or Army personnel there is now a very strong anti RAF feeling far deeper than the old rivalry. Both the RN and Army believe they have lost a lot more in recent cuts than the raf have and believe this is due to political games being played by senior raf officers.

Sometimes it's good to raise questions on OTB rather than surf the Internet for the answers. If I didn't know what the RN was doing (and I didn't), I'm quite sure many others didn't.

Sometimes it's good to raise questions on OTB rather than surf the Internet for the answers. If I didn't know what the RN was doing (and I didn't), I'm quite sure many others didn't.

I now fully understand and accept why you raised your question, just to some serving and ex serving people it is a very emotive subject. I apologise for my venom.

Whew!

As a mere civilian its a relief to see you all agreeing at last!

Whew!

As a mere civilian its a relief to see you all agreeing at last!

Skokie if we show this kind of attitude towards our own side, imagine what we are like with the real enemy?

Whew!

As a mere civilian its a relief to see you all agreeing at last!

Skokie if we show this kind of attitude towards our own side, imagine what we are like with the real enemy?

Good point....be very afraid....

Nothing more lethal than a Matelot with a gun..............................................

Doh! Its job is to rule the waves....

Nothing more lethal than a Matelot with a gun..............................................

I'm an ex Matelot and let me tell you, I was a fantastic shot.....especially when I remembered to point it the right way !