Canadian Sisters Died In Thailand From Drinking Cocktail That Contained Insect Repellent

[kimamey]

People drink insect repellent and munched up mozzie coils?

By God, what a sheltered existence I've been living. I suppose the question then is did these ladies know what they were drinking?

I have to confess it's a new one on me as well. Then again I'm 58 I've never smoked or taken illegal drugs apart from one time without my knowledge and I don't drink much alcohol . Although I would have said that I was unadventurous with food I do now try things in Thailand which I wouldn't have been certain were edible before. I rely on my girlfriend's advice on this and whether she eats it as well. I don't always know for certain all the ingredients in the food and drink I consume.

I'm puzzled by the use of the word "overdose" in the article. Is there a recommended dosage for DEET taken internally? Should it be taken internally at all?

RIP to the girls and condolences to their family and friends.

[dcutman]

After reading through these 50 posts. It seems to me this the Thai authorities reported theory achieved what they wanted. A majority of these posts accept the these girls died by accidental overdose of deet. In my opinion, even though tragic, makes everybody feel better about what the cause of these deaths. Basically it puts the blame on an activity that many youth do in Thailand, and even though these girls did not do this intentional, and was an accident. (BS)

To me this stinks more of a cover up than before. What about all the other mysterious, unexplained deaths in Chaing Mai? The Canadian sisters deaths where of identical symptoms of these other deaths.

Or did all the people in Chaing Mai die of this cocktail? I suppose it possible an elderly couple in their 70's was out on the town ripping ass and got ahold of one of these deadly cocktails. But not likely.

[indyuk]

who the hell is writing these reports,police hunt for 2 portuguese who where drinking with the sisters,now they say it was 2 brazilians.

An honest error of Judgement the National language of Brazil is Portuguese.

[cup-O-coffee]

Results of the autopsy at a Bangkok hospital have not been publicly released, but they were shown to reporters for CBC's French-language news network.

I guess it's public now, yes?

According to the report, 20-year-old Audrey and Noémi Bélanger, 25, had DEET in their bodies that they had ingested.

Only DEET?

Though the chemical is a potentially neurotoxic mosquito repellent, it is used as an ingredient in a euphoria-inducing cocktail that is popular among youth in Thailand. The drink contains cough syrup, Coke, DEET and ground up kratom leaves, which are a mild narcotic indigenous to Thailand.

So this is implying that these girls were hanging out with youth in Thailand?

It is thought that an overdose of DEET was accidentally mixed into the young women's drinks.

How the <deleted> is it an accident to mix poison into a drink? Is the "thinker" following the lines that these two were hanging out with Thailand's youth?

They had just arrived on the Thai island of Phi Phi and were last seen partying with two Brazilian friends in the early morning of June 13.

And we are now suggesting that "partying" foreigners, who hang out with Brazilians, mix DEET in their drinks, or that bartenders regularly keep DEET in their inventory, stored in sleek looking decanters?

Forty-eight hours later, when staff at their hotel hadn't seen them emerge from their room, a receptionist called police.

Yeah right. I am sure that hotel staff regularly contact the police when they do not see a farang emerge from anything I'll try contacting the police the next time I do not see a Thai emerge from a room to see what happens.

More idiotic reporting using information gathered from Thais who "think". As this is not the norm, I suspect foul play and possibly homicide, but we'll never know if we ask what the Thais "think", will we?

Rest in peace to Audrey and Noémi

Edited September 1, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[Reasonableman]

After reading through these 50 posts. It seems to me this the Thai authorities reported theory achieved what they wanted. A majority of these posts accept the these girls died by accidental overdose of deet. In my opinion, even though tragic, makes everybody feel better about what the cause of these deaths. Basically it puts the blame on an activity that many youth do in Thailand, and even though these girls did not do this intentional, and was an accident. (BS)

To me this stinks more of a cover up than before. What about all the other mysterious, unexplained deaths in Chaing Mai? The Canadian sisters deaths where of identical symptoms of these other deaths.

Or did all the people in Chaing Mai die of this cocktail? I suppose it possible an elderly couple in their 70's was out on the town ripping ass and got ahold of one of these deadly cocktails. But not likely.

The final Canadian autopsy report has not yet been released, has it? Perhaps we are all hoping for closure, but it is still too soon. Afaik, this news report only relates to the Bangkok autopsy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[retell]

so I guess the tales that some posted on the other page about mozzie repellents being put into drinks weren't to far off then. The worldly and wise branded them as loonies running around in tin foil hats with conspiricy theories. I guess there is something to be learnt here, next time before some attack others with insults, stop for a moment and consider the possibility they may actually be more intelligent than yourselves and not escapees from the loony farm. I am refering to minority, those that think they have thier doctorates in everything known to mankind.

how can one escape from a place that is everywhere

[F1fanatic]

After reading through these 50 posts. It seems to me this the Thai authorities reported theory achieved what they wanted. A majority of these posts accept the these girls died by accidental overdose of deet. In my opinion, even though tragic, makes everybody feel better about what the cause of these deaths. Basically it puts the blame on an activity that many youth do in Thailand, and even though these girls did not do this intentional, and was an accident. (BS)

To me this stinks more of a cover up than before. What about all the other mysterious, unexplained deaths in Chaing Mai? The Canadian sisters deaths where of identical symptoms of these other deaths.

Or did all the people in Chaing Mai die of this cocktail? I suppose it possible an elderly couple in their 70's was out on the town ripping ass and got ahold of one of these deadly cocktails. But not likely.

The final Canadian autopsy report has not yet been released, has it? Perhaps we are all hoping for closure, but it is still too soon. Afaik, this news report only relates to the Bangkok autopsy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was thinking the same thing.

Whilst we are all (or nearly all) very concerned about this, we need to wait for the Canadian autopsy results.

I'm suprised at how long its taking though.

[Reasonableman]

After reading through these 50 posts. It seems to me this the Thai authorities reported theory achieved what they wanted. A majority of these posts accept the these girls died by accidental overdose of deet. In my opinion, even though tragic, makes everybody feel better about what the cause of these deaths. Basically it puts the blame on an activity that many youth do in Thailand, and even though these girls did not do this intentional, and was an accident. (BS)

To me this stinks more of a cover up than before. What about all the other mysterious, unexplained deaths in Chaing Mai? The Canadian sisters deaths where of identical symptoms of these other deaths.

Or did all the people in Chaing Mai die of this cocktail? I suppose it possible an elderly couple in their 70's was out on the town ripping ass and got ahold of one of these deadly cocktails. But not likely.

The final Canadian autopsy report has not yet been released, has it? Perhaps we are all hoping for closure, but it is still too soon. Afaik, this news report only relates to the Bangkok autopsy. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was thinking the same thing.

Whilst we are all (or nearly all) very concerned about this, we need to wait for the Canadian autopsy results.

I'm suprised at how long its taking though.

They did say somewhere it could take months.

[phuketjock]

who the hell is writing these reports,police hunt for 2 portuguese who where drinking with the sisters,now they say it was 2 brazilians.

It's an easy mistake to make Brazil is the only South American country where

Portuguese is spoken and not Spanish.

[skorchio]

Have the Canadians confirmed this toxicology report? They were provided with tissue samples early in the investigation, I am interested to know if their procedures confirm the presence of DEET.

I am also surprised that the Scottish woman who was with these ladies on the night of their demise was allowed to leave Thailand without a proper grilling. She was working for a bar, most likely as a tout. I suspect she knew more than she told, she was also very ill after their night out. It is quite possible they all knowingly drank this tox-tail (my new word for toxic cocktail) but something went wrong. I await comment from Canada .....

[simple1]

There is a lot of shouting that it's terrible the autopsy reports have yet to be released and it's all because of a Thai coverup. It's about time that people note that the Thai test results have not officially been released at the request of the parents. Who knows, but the Canadian autopsy results may come to a different conclusion and also not be released at the parents request.

The reporters should be ashamed of themselves.

Edited September 1, 2012 by simple1

[watcharacters]

Yeah! This is an everyday occurrence Everybody knows this.

"It is thought that an overdose of DEET was accidentally mixed into the young women's drinks."

Couple of more dead farangs dead. Who cares? Not the cops or officials for sure.

[F1fanatic]

There is a lot of shouting that it's terrible the autopsy reports have yet to be released and it's all because of a Thai coverup. It's about time that people note that the Thai test results have not officially been released at the request of the parents. Who knows, but the Canadian autopsy results may come to a different conclusion and also not be released at the parents request.

The reporters should be ashamed of themselves.

Why would their parents not want the inquest and toxicology results released?

I can understand that they would want (and deserve) to know the results first - but why would they not want them released?

[theblether]

Would these young ladies have known what they were drinking?............

It's one thing to be struck down by your own foolishness........but another thing to be unknowingly poisoned.

Somewhere in the World today some other youngster, possibly many, are going to lose their lives due to recreational drugs.

Obviously this question will be impossible to answer in this particular case as we don't know what these unfortunate young ladies thought they were drinking............but for people with knowledge of these matters.........would you have known what was in the cocktail?

What people knowingly put into their bodies these days to get a High is quite frankly beyond belief.

I'm going to chose to believe that these young ladies weren't aware of what was going on..........maybe that's me just being soft hearted. There can be no solace to anyone knowing what has happened here, as it will no doubt just leave even more unanswered questions, however it's now up to the tourist industry and foreign governments to put serious pressure on the Thai authorities to put an end to this constant abuse of tourists travelling through Thailand.

Who in the right mind put DEET in a cocktail?

[jcw]

I feel very sad for these girls and their family and friends. DEET is a common additive to a cocktail sold in Thailand called 1-2-Call, which is a variation of 1x100. It is popular with Thais but nearly always found where ever mushroom shakes are found, aimed at the foreign back packer market for a cheap buzz. It is very popular in the South of Thailand by local communities.

Today the Canadian Government updated their travel advisory for Thailand saying, “Some media reports indicate that there have been recent cases of poisoning allegedly linked to the consumption of a Thai beverage containing DEET.”

Canadian Sisters Poisoned by a DEET Overdose in a Kratom Cocktail in Thailand

"In Thailand where it has been a forbidden substance for some 70 years it has risen to popularity again. It is particularly popular in the south of Thailand, consumed orally as a drink known as “4x100”. It is typically a mixture of ice, cough syrup cola soft drink and kratom leaf extract. Another variation of this drink is also mix in ground-up mosquito coils as a cheap substitute for hallucination mushrooms, in English this drink is nicknamed “1-2-Call” after the very popular Thai cell phone provider.

This drink has proved to be popular to young foreigners to us at the famous full moon party, unfortunately a toxic reaction to the mosquito coils is not uncommon. This was highlighted in May 2007 where five people died after drinking the mosquito coil drinks at the full moon party. Sometimes liquefied DEET that is common in mosquito repellents is also used in the cocktail. This practice is expected to continue as tourist areas are prone to large commissions without receipts with figures of authority. "

Edited September 1, 2012 by jcw

[simple1]

There is a lot of shouting that it's terrible the autopsy reports have yet to be released and it's all because of a Thai coverup. It's about time that people note that the Thai test results have not officially been released at the request of the parents. Who knows, but the Canadian autopsy results may come to a different conclusion and also not be released at the parents request.

The reporters should be ashamed of themselves.

Why would their parents not want the inquest and toxicology results released?

I can understand that they would want (and deserve) to know the results first - but why would they not want them released?

Maybe they will when the Canadian results are in as a warning to other people; if death was caused by a poisonous substance or drugs

[F1fanatic]

Would these young ladies have known what they were drinking?............

It's one thing to be struck down by your own foolishness........but another thing to be unknowingly poisoned.

Somewhere in the World today some other youngster, possibly many, are going to lose their lives due to recreational drugs.

Obviously this question will be impossible to answer in this particular case as we don't know what these unfortunate young ladies thought they were drinking............but for people with knowledge of these matters.........would you have known what was in the cocktail?

What people knowingly put into their bodies these days to get a High is quite frankly beyond belief.

I'm going to chose to believe that these young ladies weren't aware of what was going on..........maybe that's me just being soft hearted. There can be no solace to anyone knowing what has happened here, as it will no doubt just leave even more unanswered questions, however it's now up to the tourist industry and foreign governments to put serious pressure on the Thai authorities to put an end to this constant abuse of tourists travelling through Thailand.

Who in the right mind put DEET in a cocktail?

Which is why I asked (but never received a reply) as to whether Deet had drug-like qualities or, was cheaper than alcohol.

Habitual drug takers know what they are putting in their body, but I haven't yet heard of any youngster taking Deet as their drug of choice.

[sirchai]

So many foreigners in this country (not just here) die because of drug abuse. Full moon parties,with all sorts of drugs in the south, more heroin related deaths in the north, etc....

But would the TAT be interested in any investigation? Sad that the two girls had to die such a terrible death and it seems that there won't me much more information available.

People in heroin business mix strychnine into some bad quality stuff. It could make them high, or they could die.

Seems that too much of DEET came into their bodies. If they wanted to get high or not, shouldn't be the question.

Was it a "bar mixer" accident? Let's at least hope that some people have learned through such a tragedy.

I remember that the major's son of a bigger city in the UK died overdosed on Ko Panghan not too many moons ago.

English authorities took the dead body home and nothing has changed since then.

Did they really take that stuff, without knowing what was inside? Without the intention of trying to hurt anybody, but I've seen so many foreigners leaving their brains back home when heading to Thailand.

Edited September 1, 2012 by sirchai

[F1fanatic]

So many foreigners in this country (not just here) die because of drug abuse. Full moon parties,with all sorts of drugs in the south, more heroin related deaths in the north, etc....

But would the TAT be interested in any investigation? Sad that the two girls had to die such a terrible death and it seems that there won't me much more information available.

People in heroin business mix strychnine into some bad quality stuff. It could make them high, or they could die.

Seems that too much of DEET came into their bodies. If they wanted to get high or not, shouldn't be the question.

Was it a "bar mixer" accident? Let's at least hope that some people have learned through such a tragedy.

I remember that the major's son of a bigger city in the UK died overdosed on Ko Panghan not too many moons ago.

English authorities took the dead body home and nothing has changed since then.

Did they really take that stuff, without knowing what was inside? Without the intention of trying to hurt anybody, but I've seen so many foreigners leaving their brains back home when heading to Thailand.

I'm still struggling to understand why any bar would put Deet into drinks?

Personally, I find it impossible to believe they knew that the drink contained Deet.

[indyuk]

I just find it so difficult to accept that yet again we are never going to know the truth in this matter. As so often these last twenty years in Thailand police make initial speculative statement of what might have happened to the victims. Such statements are inappropriate and are usually most improbable scenarios. Why don't they keep their mouths shut and preserve the forensic integrity of the crime scene and the deceased so a rational explanation can be reached.

[laislica]

Thanks to all who gave links and the video.

This is very important to me because insects come from far and wide to bite me and I had no idea what so ever that there were risks with mozzy sprays.

I have been using local repellents containing 12 or 13% DEET.

The links say the risks are acceptable compared to catching mosquito-born diseases such as malaria, dengue fever, and West Nile virus.

However, it seems that the risks increase dramatically if I am also in contact with pesticides.

If hotels generally spray pesticides and I apply DEET topically, could the combination be problematic?

or does it need much larger concentrations of DEET?

There was a suggestion that these combinations caused Gulf War Syndrome - scary.

Thank goodness I do not have small children, their small bodies makes them more vulnerable.

What a crazy world we live in.....

[Nam Plah]

Just from memory:

One of the farang ( Portuguese) guys who helped the girls to their room left a note stating, "Sorry..." Why?

The girls exhibited discolored fingernails, rash-like lesions on their bodies and bleeding from the gums and within the eyes. None of which seems to be a symptom exclusively to DEET ingestion.

They were unable to call for help or exit their room before they expired. Paralysis, unconsciousness or both?

If there were excessive amounts of DEET ingested and they had vomited profusely as reported why wasn't the chemical initially discovered in samples of the vomit taken months ago?

Still more questions than answers.

[haybilly]

After the break, how a Swedish man shot 27 bullets into his body with a 6 shooter by reloading 3 times.

Quite a trick. Think you will find (or maybe not) that he would have to reload FOUR times: first load, 6 rounds, three reloads, 18 rounds = 24 total. Need one more reload (or 3 rounds) to get 27.

Jeez...

And I thought he was being sarcastic--stupid me!

[laislica]

So many foreigners in this country (not just here) die because of drug abuse. Full moon parties,with all sorts of drugs in the south, more heroin related deaths in the north, etc....

But would the TAT be interested in any investigation? Sad that the two girls had to die such a terrible death and it seems that there won't me much more information available.

People in heroin business mix strychnine into some bad quality stuff. It could make them high, or they could die.

Seems that too much of DEET came into their bodies. If they wanted to get high or not, shouldn't be the question.

Was it a "bar mixer" accident? Let's at least hope that some people have learned through such a tragedy.

I remember that the major's son of a bigger city in the UK died overdosed on Ko Panghan not too many moons ago.

English authorities took the dead body home and nothing has changed since then.

Did they really take that stuff, without knowing what was inside? Without the intention of trying to hurt anybody, but I've seen so many foreigners leaving their brains back home when heading to Thailand.

That's it - they leave their brains behind.

That is the case for most folks - the wear their "Holiday Head" and then do things the would never normally do.

Alcohol is usually involved - never again - till the next time.

Many years ago at a beach party in Spain, folk were drinking a cocktail which contained cannabis, I tried it - seemed a good idea at the time as everyone was doing it and I didn't want to feel left out.

Good old peer pressure.

At the end of the day, people have the choice - take part or not.

I would hate to live in a nanny world where all risks are removed from me!

I'd have to try sky diving!

Tragic though this is, let's hope it spreads the word and then people can make informed choices.

[Nitupsar]

Whoever mixed their drinks is guilty of murder. Period. How's the investigation going? Anyone knows?

[delphiboy]

I'm still struggling to understand why any bar would put Deet into drinks?

Personally, I find it impossible to believe they knew that the drink contained Deet.

Maybe you've been living in the falkland islands but I thought it was quite common knowledge that in some Muslim communities around the world, where alcohol is forbidden, there are people who regularly brew up kratom, cough syrup, coca cola occasionally with DEET and mosquito coils. I've been in the south of thailand on and off for four years and witness quite often (i.e. nearly a daily occurrence) the energy concoction being taken and I've tried myself just to see what all the 'buzz' was about (hasten to say sans any form of mozzy repelent!) and didn't quite see what the attraction was; surprisingly it tastes okay...

The number of 'farang' I've seen pass through willing to try the brew doesn't surprise me given the number of cheap chinese 'plant food' ecstasy and cocaine powder substitutes on the market in europe/us that people are willing to snort up.

I can honestly say I've yet to witness any bar publicly advertising this stuff for sale, usually taken amongst a small group of friends away from the limelight, so they must have known or been aware to some degree that this wasn't a readily available over-the-counter drink.

Oh and one last thing - Kratom is for sale on amazon.

Edited September 1, 2012 by delphiboy

[F1fanatic]

I'm still struggling to understand why any bar would put Deet into drinks?

Personally, I find it impossible to believe they knew that the drink contained Deet.

Maybe you've been living in the falkland islands but I thought it was quite common knowledge that in some Muslim communities around the world, where alcohol is forbidden, there are people who regularly brew up kratom, cough syrup, coca cola occasionally with DEET and mosquito coils. I've been in the south of thailand on and off for four years and witness quite often (i.e. nearly a daily occurrence) the energy concoction being taken and I've tried myself just to see what all the 'buzz' was about (hasten to say sans any form of mozzy repelent!) and didn't quite see what the attraction was; surprisingly it tastes okay...

The number of 'farang' I've seen pass through willing to try the brew doesn't surprise me given the number of cheap chinese 'plant food' ecstasy and cocaine powder substitutes on the market in europe/us that people are willing to snort up.

I can honestly say I've yet to witness any bar publicly advertising this stuff for sale, usually taken amongst a small group of friends away from the limelight, so they must have known or been aware to some degree that this wasn't a readily available over-the-counter drink.

Oh and one last thing - Kratom is for sale on amazon.

Perhaps you should read my earlier posts asking whether Deet has drug-like qualities or is cheaper than alcohol.

Cough syrup etc. in drinks doesn't suprise me in the slightest - Deet on the other hand, does.

[melcoe]

I live on Phi Phi for half of the year and I can tell you FOR CERTAIN that it is entirely possible and plausible that the two candian girls died from drinking a lethal cocktail containing deet.

I know people who have drunk the 4 x100 and who have also drunk variations on same, by adding redbull to this mix, ground up mossie coils, crushed pain medication tablets, and even unknown types of drugs just to see what they will do (in one instance it was a cholesterol reducing drug that someone had left in a guesthouse after checking out).

Whether or not the girls were aware of the added deet will maybe never be known, but I have tasted Kratom (the natural leaves, not the boiled version or the 4 x 100) and it is extremely bitter and quite disgusting so the girls might have been told they were just drinking nam tom or the 4 x 100, which although still somewhat dangerous, rarely results in death. (I have heard some places use the mossie coils when they can't get magic mushies as it produces a similar high/effect, so perhaps they thought they were having a mushie shake.)

Whatever the case, it is not a stupid, farfetched, or fake possiblity... these things do exist and are drunk every day, especially in southern thailand, and if this indeed is what was uncovered by the autopsy results, it makes a lot of sense.

Unfortunately, many of the locals I know who use variations of the kratom mixes have done so because of their addictions to methamphetamine (ya ice and ya ba) and various other speed-like drugs. When they can't get ice or whatever, they mix up nam tom (boiled kratom leaves) which has a similar effect of enabling them to stay awake for days on end, and when they need a bigger high, they add all the other stuff to it.

The people I know personally who use such items were all victims of the tsunami, and all lost loved ones, and the majority of them turned to drugs as a coping mechanism and ended up becoming addicts.

It's a sad but very real tragedy that I see evidence of everytime I'm home on the island, and is a constant reminder of what can happen to survivors when there is no care or follow up. None of these people received any counselling, for grief or coping or loss or depression or anything. The only medical help they received was to fix the external wounds, not the mental damage. So do not judge them for becoming drug addicts when for a long time after the tsunami that was the only way they could forget what happened, and get rid of the sadness.

Having such widespread use of illicit substances rife within local communities like Phi Phi which are tourist targets, means the word quickly spreads among the tourists eager to have a good time while on holidays. Recreational drug users, even non drug users, are more likely to do a bit of experimenting while on holidays, especially young adults leaving home for the first time and so on. Yet all holiday makers (regardless of whether they choose to try drugs etc) are also more likely to become targets ... whether it be from locals requiring money with which to feed their drug habits or support their families, and from locals or non locals keen to engage in sex acts, or steal items from the drug affected recipients or whatever.

Sadly, some individuals, and even some bars on Phi Phi have chosen to exploit this need/desire by selling or making easily available, buckets containing such substances. Buckets should be banned as those sold in the crazy beach bars on Phi Phi are usually premixed behind the scenes so there's no way of customers knowing exactly what's going into them (in contrast to the buckets sold in small stalls/shops which have unopened bottles of alcohol and mixers in them). What's more, due to the large wide opening of each bucket, it's extremely easy to add unknown poisonous substances at any time without the customer realising.

Banning buckets won't solve all the problems, but it will give people like the two canadians who died a better chance of knowing what they're actually drinking. Next step is obviously police checks and regular random tests to shut down the bars supplying the customers with shit mixes (ie 4 x 100, kratom, 1-2-call, magic mushie shakes et al) because sadly, it's very easy for tourists to buy pre mixed drug cocktails, KNOWINGLY, over the counter at more than one establishment on Phi Phi. Thirdly, spread the word. Because my first two points will take time to implement, let's all do the third. Say no to buckets, and say no to anything not mixed in clear view of the public. Watch your drinks, and avoid dabbling in the local drug scene. Whether the two girls died of one of the locally available drug cocktails or not,and whether they knew what they were drinking or not, these cocktails are very real, they do exist, and they could kill anyone.

My sincere condolences to the family of the two girls who died, such a very sad, and very tragic ending to what should have been a wonderful time in their short lives.

[TommyDee]

I'm still struggling to understand why any bar would put Deet into drinks?

Personally, I find it impossible to believe they knew that the drink contained Deet.

Maybe you've been living in the falkland islands but I thought it was quite common knowledge that in some Muslim communities around the world, where alcohol is forbidden, there are people who regularly brew up kratom, cough syrup, coca cola occasionally with DEET and mosquito coils. I've been in the south of thailand on and off for four years and witness quite often (i.e. nearly a daily occurrence) the energy concoction being taken and I've tried myself just to see what all the 'buzz' was about (hasten to say sans any form of mozzy repelent!) and didn't quite see what the attraction was; surprisingly it tastes okay...

The number of 'farang' I've seen pass through willing to try the brew doesn't surprise me given the number of cheap chinese 'plant food' ecstasy and cocaine powder substitutes on the market in europe/us that people are willing to snort up.

I can honestly say I've yet to witness any bar publicly advertising this stuff for sale, usually taken amongst a small group of friends away from the limelight, so they must have known or been aware to some degree that this wasn't a readily available over-the-counter drink.

Oh and one last thing - Kratom is for sale on amazon.

in the 70s I can remember quite a few boys who were addicted to cough medicine, in the days it contained codiene and they used to let it settle then drink the separated level on the top. i think its banned nowadays.

Yabba makers have an odd trick, they mix the powder with pesticide as it help them form a tablet easily.. crazy or what?

[sysardman]

Thanks to all who gave links and the video.

This is very important to me because insects come from far and wide to bite me and I had no idea what so ever that there were risks with mozzy sprays.

I have been using local repellents containing 12 or 13% DEET.

The links say the risks are acceptable compared to catching mosquito-born diseases such as malaria, dengue fever, and West Nile virus.

However, it seems that the risks increase dramatically if I am also in contact with pesticides.

If hotels generally spray pesticides and I apply DEET topically, could the combination be problematic?

or does it need much larger concentrations of DEET?

There was a suggestion that these combinations caused Gulf War Syndrome - scary.

Thank goodness I do not have small children, their small bodies makes them more vulnerable.

What a crazy world we live in.....

Please @laislica don't start listening to these scare mongers, I have been using DEET products for years and regularly spray my house with mozzie killers and, I confess, am now in the middle age group. I just had a check up at my doctors and she proclaimed me fit as a 20 year old, she didn't have to amputate any additional heads or limbs that I'd grown. DEET is safe if used as directed. I go out into really mosquito infested places and by dressing sensibly and applying DEET sparingly in exposed places I seldom get bitten.