U N Human Rights Commissioner Says Thailand Should Try Those Responsible For 2010 Deaths

[philw]

Except there were no direct orders to shoot to kill.

how do you know?

Seh Daeng was hit by a sniper shooting in self-defense?

Because I haven't seen any evidence of it. If anyone has seen evidence of orders of shoot to kill, that would be very interesting.

Does anyone know who shot Seh Daeng? Was it retribution for some of the things he'd done or some of things he was talking about?

Somebody does, and I bet more than one.

Who was it do you think ??

[whybother]

Somebody does, and I bet more than one.

Who was it do you think ??

See the discussion above.

[Nickymaster]

At the very least, the 'trigger happy brigade' will know that the eyes of the world are watching and that there is a possibility that they may be called to account. "Pulling their heads in" would be carte blanche for the ones who consider themselves excused any moral or legal obligations. Probably not a clever idea.

Sure. That explains following comments from the Reds.

http://www.thaivisa....ailands-report/

Edited September 20, 2012 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

I wonder how many innocent civilians would have been hurt or killed had the granade attack on Sala Deng BTS station had actually hit a train?

the firing of an M79 into the BTS station at Sala-Daeng on April 22, 2010, caused 2 deaths and 78 injuries

[birdpooguava]

I wonder how many innocent civilians would have been hurt or killed had the granade attack on Sala Deng BTS station had actually hit a train?

BANGKOK, 5 May 2010 (NNT) M79 grenade attacks at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010 have been proven to be shot from Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital, according to the Central Institute of Forensic Science Director, Khunying MD Pornthip Rojanasunan.

The director stated that M79 grenades against protestors of the Alliance of Patriots that day could have been launched from either the seventh or the eighth floor of King Bhumibol Building in Chulalongkorn Hospital based on traces and damages found at the scene.

Ahh, Chula hospital, where they refuse to treat reds and allow army snipers access to their upper floors & then pull a (very successful to the gullible) publicity stunt of evacuating patients, putting their own patients at risk. Oh & let's not forget their most famous associate Dr. Dr. Tul Sithisomwong (old DNA Tul as I like to call him)

[birdpooguava]

Except there were no direct orders to shoot to kill.

how do you know?

Seh Daeng was hit by a sniper shooting in self-defense?

Because I haven't seen any evidence of it. If anyone has seen evidence of orders of shoot to kill, that would be very interesting.

Does anyone know who shot Seh Daeng? Was it retribution for some of the things he'd done or some of things he was talking about?

http://www.theage.com.au/world/army-declares-shoot-to-kill-20100515-v5ia.html

[MunterHunter]

I didn't know about the number of injuries... missed that report.

Wasn't that the hospital the reds raided and kidnapped patients out of (to parade on their stages)?

Doesn't that violate all kinds of human rights, in itself?

(not to mention show the red protestors to be the lowest of scum to ever inhabit the world)

[rixalex]

BANGKOK, 5 May 2010 (NNT) M79 grenade attacks at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010 have been proven to be shot from Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital, according to the Central Institute of Forensic Science Director, Khunying MD Pornthip Rojanasunan.

The director stated that M79 grenades against protestors of the Alliance of Patriots that day could have been launched from either the seventh or the eighth floor of King Bhumibol Building in Chulalongkorn Hospital based on traces and damages found at the scene.

Ahh, Chula hospital, where they refuse to treat reds and allow army snipers access to their upper floors & then pull a (very successful to the gullible) publicity stunt of evacuating patients, putting their own patients at risk. Oh & let's not forget their most famous associate Dr. Dr. Tul Sithisomwong (old DNA Tul as I like to call him)

have been proven....

could have been launched...

Why the "could"?

If it has been proven, surely that should be "were launched...".

As for Chula hospital putting patients lives at risk for a publicity stunt, yeah right, you remind me of the yellows who have been known to claim that the airport was shut down when they protested there as a deliberate over reaction by the government.

[Buchholz]

Except there were no direct orders to shoot to kill.

how do you know?

Seh Daeng was hit by a sniper shooting in self-defense?

Because I haven't seen any evidence of it. If anyone has seen evidence of orders of shoot to kill, that would be very interesting.

Does anyone know who shot Seh Daeng? Was it retribution for some of the things he'd done or some of things he was talking about?

http://www.theage.co...00515-v5ia.html

less than a week before someone put a bullet in his brain...

No new team of red shirts leaders : Nuttawut

BANGKOK: -- A red shirt leader on Monday dismissed as groundless a claim by an outspoken general that ex-PM Thaksin Shinawatra appointed new team of red shirts leaders.

Nuttawut Saikua said Major-Geneneral Kattiya Sawasdipol maybe misinformed or misunderstood that Thaksin was not happy with the existing red shirt leaders who Kattiya said were changing their position to a compromising one in their talks with Abhisit government.

"Seh Daeng's report is not correct. Maybe he is misinformed," Nuttawut said.

Kattiya claimed Monday that he talked to Thaksin on a phone on Sunday. "Thaksin said he would appoint a new team of the red shirts leaders."

The new team would exclude Veera Musikapong, Jatuporn Prompan, Dr Weng Tohjirakarn and Nuttawut Saikua as they appeared to agree with Abhisit's roadmap and prefer to end the rally.

The group had several secret meeting with Abhisit's team, Kattiya said.

Nuttawut told reporters that even Thaksin has no authority to change the leaders' team.

Each of the new team claimed by Seh Daeng has not yet been contacted about the matter, Nuttawut said.

Kattiya quoted Thaksin as saying that those who did not want to fight on should go home.

The new team comprises Arisamun Pongruengrong, Suporn Attawong, Kwanchai Praipana, Waipot Apornrat.

-- The Nation 2010-05-10

Edited September 20, 2012 by Buchholz

[Nickymaster]

I wonder how many innocent civilians would have been hurt or killed had the granade attack on Sala Deng BTS station had actually hit a train?

BANGKOK, 5 May 2010 (NNT) M79 grenade attacks at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010 have been proven to be shot from Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital, according to the Central Institute of Forensic Science Director, Khunying MD Pornthip Rojanasunan.

The director stated that M79 grenades against protestors of the Alliance of Patriots that day could have been launched from either the seventh or the eighth floor of King Bhumibol Building in Chulalongkorn Hospital based on traces and damages found at the scene.

Ahh, Chula hospital, where they refuse to treat reds and allow army snipers access to their upper floors & then pull a (very successful to the gullible) publicity stunt of evacuating patients, putting their own patients at risk. Oh & let's not forget their most famous associate Dr. Dr. Tul Sithisomwong (old DNA Tul as I like to call him)

What a s..t load of speculation.

The Reds themselves have already confirmed that there were no soldiers there. Only a lot of very scared patients.

Or do you question the red's "own investigation"?

http://www.guardian....invade-hospital

Edited September 20, 2012 by Nickymaster

[tinfoilhat]

And the US wonders why people bomb their embassies and kill their ambassadors.

they should sort themselves out first, then look afield once they have achieved Utopian status

[AleG]

I wonder how many innocent civilians would have been hurt or killed had the granade attack on Sala Deng BTS station had actually hit a train?

BANGKOK, 5 May 2010 (NNT) M79 grenade attacks at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010 have been proven to be shot from Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital, according to the Central Institute of Forensic Science Director, Khunying MD Pornthip Rojanasunan.

The director stated that M79 grenades against protestors of the Alliance of Patriots that day could have been launched from either the seventh or the eighth floor of King Bhumibol Building in Chulalongkorn Hospital based on traces and damages found at the scene.

Ahh, Chula hospital, where they refuse to treat reds and allow army snipers access to their upper floors & then pull a (very successful to the gullible) publicity stunt of evacuating patients, putting their own patients at risk. Oh & let's not forget their most famous associate Dr. Dr. Tul Sithisomwong (old DNA Tul as I like to call him)

What a s..t load of speculation.

The Reds themselves have already confirmed that there were no soldiers there. Only a lot of very scared patients.

Or do you question the red's "own investigation"?

http://www.guardian....invade-hospital

Not to mention that there are buildings in between Chula hospital and the Sala Daeng station, so unless they have superhuman M79 aiming skills so as to hit the station firing blind over the top of the buildings in between I'm not buying this.... theory.

[philw]

Except there were no direct orders to shoot to kill.

how do you know?

Seh Daeng was hit by a sniper shooting in self-defense?

Because I haven't seen any evidence of it. If anyone has seen evidence of orders of shoot to kill, that would be very interesting.

Does anyone know who shot Seh Daeng? Was it retribution for some of the things he'd done or some of things he was talking about?

http://www.theage.com.au/world/army-declares-shoot-to-kill-20100515-v5ia.html

Good link and recalls the real atmosphere of fear and death that the army created before proceeding with their fairly ruthless and sometimes indiscriminate shooting of unarmed Thai citizens.

They had many more options other than snipers and indiscriminate shootings.

Little mention is made on here of the approx 2,400 people wounded by gunfire.

Wonder how many army bullets were dug out of them ??

[AleG]

...

Little mention is made on here of the approx 2,400 people wounded by gunfire.

Wonder how many army bullets were dug out of them ??

Citation on the 2400 gunfire injures?

[MaiChai]

Thailand put it behind you. There are lots of injustices in the world, especially in countries like Thailand. There is no solution to what happened in 2010, apart from Taksin admitting guilt and showing some remorse for his actions.

[birdpooguava]

I wonder how many innocent civilians would have been hurt or killed had the granade attack on Sala Deng BTS station had actually hit a train?

BANGKOK, 5 May 2010 (NNT) M79 grenade attacks at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010 have been proven to be shot from Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital, according to the Central Institute of Forensic Science Director, Khunying MD Pornthip Rojanasunan.The director stated that M79 grenades against protestors of the Alliance of Patriots that day could have been launched from either the seventh or the eighth floor of King Bhumibol Building in Chulalongkorn Hospital based on traces and damages found at the scene.Ahh, Chula hospital, where they refuse to treat reds and allow army snipers access to their upper floors & then pull a (very successful to the gullible) publicity stunt of evacuating patients, putting their own patients at risk. Oh & let's not forget their most famous associate Dr. Dr. Tul Sithisomwong (old DNA Tul as I like to call him)

What a s..t load of speculation. The Reds themselves have already confirmed that there were no soldiers there. Only a lot of very scared patients.Or do you question the red's "own investigation"?http://www.guardian....invade-hospital

Not to mention that there are buildings in between Chula hospital and the Sala Daeng station, so unless they have superhuman M79 aiming skills so as to hit the station firing blind over the top of the buildings in between I'm not buying this.... theory.

Well why do all of the army apologist's always lay the blame of this attack (BTS) on the reds? Also on the day of the hospital 'invasion' an hour or so before there were a stream of twitter reports saying army personnel were seen hurriedly exiting the upper floors of Chula hospital. Considering snipers were positioned in schools is anyone really doubting that they weren't there? Edited September 20, 2012 by birdpooguava

[philw]

...

Little mention is made on here of the approx 2,400 people wounded by gunfire.

Wonder how many army bullets were dug out of them ??

Citation on the 2400 gunfire injures?

Not hard to find sources for how many wounded there were.

Look it up yourself.

[birdpooguava]

On the same reasoning that WhyBother claims Seh Daeng was murdered by his own side, or others claim reds shot each other to increase the body count, we can just as easily suppose the army was carrying out attacks to frame the reds.

[Thaddeus]

...

Little mention is made on here of the approx 2,400 people wounded by gunfire.

Wonder how many army bullets were dug out of them ??

Citation on the 2400 gunfire injures?

Not hard to find sources for how many wounded there were.

Look it up yourself.

Gunfire injuries?

[rixalex]

Well why do all of the army apologist's always lay the blame of this attack (BTS) on the reds? Also on the day of the hospital 'invasion' an hour or so before there were a stream of twitter reports saying army personnel were seen hurriedly exiting the upper floors of Chula hospital. Considering snipers were positioned in schools is anyone really doubting that they weren't there?

Backed up by twitter reports. Well there you have it people. How can you argue with something that has been on twitter?

[AleG]

...

Little mention is made on here of the approx 2,400 people wounded by gunfire.

Wonder how many army bullets were dug out of them ??

Citation on the 2400 gunfire injures?

Not hard to find sources for how many wounded there were.

Look it up yourself.

None of the sources I've seen mention 2400 gunfire injuries. So, where's your source then?

[GentlemanJim]

Is the UN Human Rights Commissioner more than slightly embarrassed now that after supporting the finds from the Truth and Reconciliation Committee and endeavoring to offer some kind of international support for the PTP Governments desire to uncover the truth, that now the 'truth' has been uncovered and is critical also of reds and PTP that the Government now say that the committee was crap and had no authority and the findings are lies? Mmmm I don't think Thailand will get much more 'international' moral support from such organizations again any time soon! Miracle Thailand.

[animatic]

Firstly, there seems to be a tendency to assume that because someone is killed, that immediately makes them a victim who played no part in their own death. It may be true, it may not be true. It is something we need to establish first before assuming that someone needs to be tried.

Secondly, the UN High Commissioner should be aware that all these investigations are just a show. They won't lead anywhere, least of all to high ranking people going to jail. It's all part of a political game. PTP need leverage on the Dems, so they can get the Dems to stop delaying the whitewash Thaksin bill. That's all this is about. Nothing more. If you want evidence of this, just look at the way the victim's families on receiving their blankety blank cheques, were made to sign an agreement that they would not take legal action.

The whole demonstration was a pretext and method to getting

enough leverage on the Dems and the Army to get Thaksin back into power.

Nothing more nothing less.

[sbk]

I wonder how many innocent civilians would have been hurt or killed had the granade attack on Sala Deng BTS station had actually hit a train?

BANGKOK, 5 May 2010 (NNT) M79 grenade attacks at Sala Daeng Intersection on 22 April 2010 have been proven to be shot from Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital, according to the Central Institute of Forensic Science Director, Khunying MD Pornthip Rojanasunan.

The director stated that M79 grenades against protestors of the Alliance of Patriots that day could have been launched from either the seventh or the eighth floor of King Bhumibol Building in Chulalongkorn Hospital based on traces and damages found at the scene.

Ahh, Chula hospital, where they refuse to treat reds and allow army snipers access to their upper floors & then pull a (very successful to the gullible) publicity stunt of evacuating patients, putting their own patients at risk. Oh & let's not forget their most famous associate Dr. Dr. Tul Sithisomwong (old DNA Tul as I like to call him)

do you have a link for this news source? If not it will be deleted. Unattributed sources are not allowed

[Noistar]

Recent events indicate that the momentum for serious inquiries, proper scrutiny of actions / decisions and perhaps indictments and court cases is building.

Perhaps some Dems and Generals might be getting a bit nervous.

Considering that the latest report finding concluded blame on both sides, why is it you only talk about the Dems and Generals getting nervous?

Actually I would be pleased to see those responsible from ALL sides in court, as this ( in my opinion ) is the only way the country can go forwards.

Like said, those from ALL sides.

So far it's only the reds, with luck that will change.

I hope it's facts that prevail, rather than luck

[birdpooguava]

do you have a link for this news source? If not it will be deleted. Unattributed sources are not allowed

DSI: Origin of Silom grenade attacks yet to be concluded : National News Bureau of Thailand, 5 May 2010

[rixalex]

do you have a link for this news source? If not it will be deleted. Unattributed sources are not allowed

DSI: Origin of Silom grenade attacks yet to be concluded : National News Bureau of Thailand, 5 May 2010

Dead link.

[GentlemanJim]

do you have a link for this news source? If not it will be deleted. Unattributed sources are not allowed

DSI: Origin of Silom grenade attacks yet to be concluded : National News Bureau of Thailand, 5 May 2010

So you are promoting a link by some forensic expert no more than two weeks after the event with some ridiculous claim that has since been thrown away with the rest of the garbage. Utterly shocking that you should be allowed to continue posting your utter inflammatory nonsense. Now what's that line normally thrown at conspiracy theorists concerning tin foil hats?

[TheKrayTriplet]

Well it looks to me that the major problem for the government and the military is that they over reacted.

That is your opinion. I don't think they did personally.

Personally i think they under reacted for three or four weeks, before finally acting in the same sort of fashion as authorities would act in the UK if London was under siege in the same fashion, or in America if Washington had been taken over. Main difference of course is that in those cities, they would have done a much better job of stopping it get as far as it did. Which brings us back to the Thai police.

More and more use of lethal weapons? That doesn't seem to be born out by the number of military deaths between the introduction of military snipers and the final crackdown - yet the number of civilian deaths went up?

It's born out by my eyes, whatever the "successfulness" of their use of those weapons were. If you were here in Bangkok at that time, you would have seen just how brazenly the armed members had become.

What do you (I don't mean this as literally you, anybody could answer but it's rhetorical anyway) think is going to happen when the inquest results come out for the foreign photographers - that's going to stir something up internationally. And then there's the deaths of Kate, the other medic and other protesters in the Wat. It's not Amsterdam making these people victims - Surely you can see they are genuine victims?

I don't say there weren't any innocent people caught up in this. There were. Some most likely killed at the hands of soldiers, some most likely killed at the hands of protesters. There needs to be justice for those deaths. But we also need to recognise, these sorts of deaths were in the minority. Focusing solely on them, and making no mention of all the other deaths that make up the majority, is i think an attempt to paint them all with the same "victim" brush.

Just because you end up dead, doesn't automatically make you a victim. Criminals get killed every day throughout the world by authorities. It's a risk you take when you break the law. Not to say that people who break the law deserve to be killed, but there are times when those people do have to take some responsibility for their fate - posthumously of course.

"I don't say there weren't any innocent people caught up in this. There were. Some most likely killed at the hands of soldiers, some most likely killed at the hands of protesters. There needs to be justice for those deaths. But we also need to recognise, these sorts of deaths were in the minority. Focusing solely on them, and making no mention of all the other deaths that make up the majority, is i think an attempt to paint them all with the same "victim" brush."

"These sorts of deaths were in the minority" I'm going to have to differ with you there, a gut feeling as it were as there is no specific proof yet but I think these deaths of innocents are likely to be in the majority. Now my definition of an innocent will be different to yours - it appears that of all the deaths recorded by the PIC none of those had been handling guns, no gunshot residue found.

I add to that the many photographs/videos of dead redshirts that do not show them to be armed with anything other than a catapult. If you wish to call this armed, well fair enough but you have to accept that to shoot these people dead is a wild over reaction to the threat, an over reaction already documented by the HRW.That is what I was suggesting by the number of deaths of protesters going up in relation to the deaths of security forces. The use of grenades by the red or black shirts whoever it was the limit, there was no escalation above this, 5 Security Force personnel were killed on the 10th April and another 6 (one by "friendly" fire) by the 19th May - were was this supposed constant escalation of armed offenses against the security forces that warranted live fire zones and snipers, let alone 30,000 deployed troops? In this same period 50 plus civilians were killed.

Edited September 20, 2012 by TheKrayTriplet

[Buchholz]

Even though the source (anonymous 22) can be discredited, what the content highlights is how valuable it was for the army to shed the reds in a negative light.

Actually it shows how valuable unnamed anonymous witnesses were to your quote of Red Shirt Lawyer Amsterdam's "investigation".... cause certainly it's credible, right?

.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Buchholz