Living Off Your Investments ...

[Ricardo]

Interesting thread.

DO start reading-up on money, investment, financial-planning etc. Most of us are financial illiterates, some of us realise this, others just fly blind ! So start to do something about it - head for your local library or 2nd-hand book-store.

DON'T forget that your circumstances may change, you may find yourself with a wife & family to pay for, many people do find their lives change ! You will need to have thought-out your contingency-plans for this sort of situation.

DON'T assume that you can run a business out here, make pots of money, and live the good life ! It's nice when it happens, but most people don't make it, just look at the beer-bar for-sale signs when next you're out here !

Have you considered contract-work overseas, earn the big-bucks somewhere exotic (ie hot , dangerous or uncomfortable) for a few more years, build that pot-of-gold while enjoying long holidays to Thailand ?

[bendix]

Thailand as the next Asian Tiger economy, after Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea?

Hahahah . .funny thing I've heard for ages. There is no work ethic in Thailand - walk around the streets and see moto-cycle taxi drivers sleeping. See the girls eating somtam outside of shops and beauty salons. Watch the indifference of shopkeepers who arent paid enough to care if they sell to you or not?

SE Asian Tiger?

Sleepy kitten more like . . .

[Heng]

There aren't enough ethnic Chinese either (unlike Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea... the latter mostly through genetics/mixing over hundreds of years). Thailand's best bet would be to open property ownership to those of Singaporean, Taiwanese, and Chinese nationalities and to lift all visa restrictions regarding immigration for the same groups. It's been happening anyway over the years, may as well speed up the process.

Edited February 9, 2006 by Heng

[creation2474]

Tricky question this how much is enough.I moved to Thailand from the U.K at 25 ( pretty young I know) I still work and earn good money, well...very good.I don't go back to the U.k and don't really plan to.In my 30's now.I reckon that 140,000 baht a month would be a good figure to get each month and be able to call it a day.That should cover all situations, for me I have a wife and young family so intend to crack on for another year earning then take a look, with a young family I want over 200,000baht a month pension. Quality of life is the priority and regardless of what I earn I WILL call it a day within 12 months.

Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous.

I live in Copenhagen, denmark in a 200 sq. meter villa. Have a 16 mill. big loan in it but i still live for less than 140000 baht/month. Cph. is one of the most expensive cities in the world.

Bangkok is one of the cheapest.

Who is rediculous now?

OMG what a heap of sh*t.

25000 will suffice. Don't worry.

[Gary A]

Once you get settled in and you are NOT paying rent, 25,000 is plenty. I just paid my electric bill for January. It was 560 baht. The water bill for two months was 167 baht. We water many fruit trees and the gardens. My health insurance is about 1,700 a month. I only have third party liability on my truck and that costs about 700 baht per month. My Ipstar is about 2,600 and UBC TV about 1,600. That is about 7,400 total. My wife cooks all our food. She gets a lot of vegetables from the garden and what extra she has she barters for other vegetables so the food bill is VERY little. I go to my favorite beer drinking spot about three times a week. The maximum I spend there per month is less than 4,000 baht. If you want to prowl the bars every night and pay for your company, LOL, I can see where 100,000 per month may not be enough. How long is a piece of string? There are NO correct answers. Different strokes for different folks for sure. I'm perfectly content the way I live and it costs me a lot less than 25,000 baht per month. That is less than 25% of what I could afford to spend.

[Firefan]

Calculating how much was enough (for ME!) took me a long time and a lot of research due to all the variables we have discussed here (rent vs buy, interest rates, inflation, exchange rates, possible investment returns, serious illness, standard of living expected, party-money and so forth).

I also spoke with a lot of friends from bar bums to CEOs (some being the same person ).

20-25k Baht is enough for some - if the apt/house is paid. Some even manage to include rent (4-6000 Baht - gets you a small, older studio in BKK but probably a lot more in the country side). I would set that amount as the lowest denominator for people wanting some health insurance, legal stay (visas or visa runs) and TV+beers Etc. I could myself downshift to that number for some months should investments (or other surprises) go against me - but living in BKK it would not be as fun as today!

Personally I ended up with a 50.000 Baht/mth no. (w. housing paid. In BKK) and am comfortable for sure. I DID blow through about triple that when I lived here on an expat package - but a lot of that was travel outside Thailand which I do much less now - as well as the car.

We do not have to agree and above are just MY experience.

Cheers!

[LoveDaBlues]

Tricky question this how much is enough.I moved to Thailand from the U.K at 25 ( pretty young I know) I still work and earn good money, well...very good.I don't go back to the U.k and don't really plan to.In my 30's now.I reckon that 140,000 baht a month would be a good figure to get each month and be able to call it a day.That should cover all situations, for me I have a wife and young family so intend to crack on for another year earning then take a look, with a young family I want over 200,000baht a month pension. Quality of life is the priority and regardless of what I earn I WILL call it a day within 12 months.

Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous.

After reading this post an objective person with some knowledge of Thailand would conclude that you don't even live here! After paying ALL my 'necessary & normal' expenses each month (including rent & the father-in-laws truck payment of 3500 baht) the total comes to around 30,000 baht. After that the amount I spend on travel, recreation, etc. is an individual choice.

If a person pays cash for his house & car he can then have a pretty decent life style on 25,000 each month depending on his needs, etc. To make a post like this and say 140,000-200,000 is needed is a joke and passing on bogus info like this does not help those considering a move here.

[Cassandra]

Tricky question this how much is enough.I moved to Thailand from the U.K at 25 ( pretty young I know) I still work and earn good money, well...very good.I don't go back to the U.k and don't really plan to.In my 30's now.I reckon that 140,000 baht a month would be a good figure to get each month and be able to call it a day.That should cover all situations, for me I have a wife and young family so intend to crack on for another year earning then take a look, with a young family I want over 200,000baht a month pension. Quality of life is the priority and regardless of what I earn I WILL call it a day within 12 months.

Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous.

After reading this post an objective person with some knowledge of Thailand would conclude that you don't even live here! After paying ALL my 'necessary & normal' expenses each month (including rent & the father-in-laws truck payment of 3500 baht) the total comes to around 30,000 baht. After that the amount I spend on travel, recreation, etc. is an individual choice.

If a person pays cash for his house & car he can then have a pretty decent life style on 25,000 each month depending on his needs, etc. To make a post like this and say 140,000-200,000 is needed is a joke and passing on bogus info like this does not help those considering a move here.

It is amusing how hot and bothered people get on this subject.I can summarise by saying that what posters have available themselves -whether it's Bt 25000 or Bt 140,000- is by some miraculous coincidence what one needs to get by in Thailand.I have friends here whose monthly income ranges from Bt 40,000 to Bt 500, 000.All have full and interesting lives.Nevertheless those at the lower end are not able to save a great deal or do as much travelling as they would like.For those planning to come here I would suggest you plan on Bt 100,000 pm.But I stress it all depends on your circumstances.If you are a 23 year old kid Bt 30,000 should be fine.But frankly there's something rather sad about a middle aged man with wife and children trying to manage on this, particularly if they are in "father in law's truck payment" mode.

[Gary A]

I think you have it ALL wrong. If I were 23 years old I would need OVER 100,00 per month just to get by. After you get a little older (OK, a lot older) your ideas of recreation change drastically. Yes, I did enjoy travel when I was a young man but now I much prefer to stay close to home. A trip down to the farang ghettos is a pain in the back side for me. BTW, my children are raised with children of their own and since I have very little patience I would NEVER consider raising another family or raising someone else's children.

It is amusing how hot and bothered people get on this subject.I can summarise by saying that what posters have available themselves -whether it's Bt 25000 or Bt 140,000- is by some miraculous coincidence what one needs to get by in Thailand.I have friends here whose monthly income ranges from Bt 40,000 to Bt 500, 000.All have full and interesting lives.Nevertheless those at the lower end are not able to save a great deal or do as much travelling as they would like.For those planning to come here I would suggest you plan on Bt 100,000 pm.But I stress it all depends on your circumstances.If you are a 23 year old kid Bt 30,000 should be fine.But frankly there's something rather sad about a middle aged man with wife and children trying to manage on this, particularly if they are in "father in law's truck payment" mode.

[TokyoT]

There aren't enough ethnic Chinese either (unlike Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea... the latter mostly through genetics/mixing over hundreds of years). Thailand's best bet would be to open property ownership to those of Singaporean, Taiwanese, and Chinese nationalities and to lift all visa restrictions regarding immigration for the same groups. It's been happening anyway over the years, may as well speed up the process.

Or they could do one better than that and allow the Japanese to re-occupy them and teach them how to become a real 1st world economy (instead of just being a quickly developing economy likely those slow to come around Chinese).

[LoveDaBlues]

Tricky question this how much is enough.I moved to Thailand from the U.K at 25 ( pretty young I know) I still work and earn good money, well...very good.I don't go back to the U.k and don't really plan to.In my 30's now.I reckon that 140,000 baht a month would be a good figure to get each month and be able to call it a day.That should cover all situations, for me I have a wife and young family so intend to crack on for another year earning then take a look, with a young family I want over 200,000baht a month pension. Quality of life is the priority and regardless of what I earn I WILL call it a day within 12 months.

Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous.

After reading this post an objective person with some knowledge of Thailand would conclude that you don't even live here! After paying ALL my 'necessary & normal' expenses each month (including rent & the father-in-laws truck payment of 3500 baht) the total comes to around 30,000 baht. After that the amount I spend on travel, recreation, etc. is an individual choice.

If a person pays cash for his house & car he can then have a pretty decent life style on 25,000 each month depending on his needs, etc. To make a post like this and say 140,000-200,000 is needed is a joke and passing on bogus info like this does not help those considering a move here.

It is amusing how hot and bothered people get on this subject.I can summarise by saying that what posters have available themselves -whether it's Bt 25000 or Bt 140,000- is by some miraculous coincidence what one needs to get by in Thailand.I have friends here whose monthly income ranges from Bt 40,000 to Bt 500, 000.All have full and interesting lives.Nevertheless those at the lower end are not able to save a great deal or do as much travelling as they would like.For those planning to come here I would suggest you plan on Bt 100,000 pm.But I stress it all depends on your circumstances.If you are a 23 year old kid Bt 30,000 should be fine.But frankly there's something rather sad about a middle aged man with wife and children trying to manage on this, particularly if they are in "father in law's truck payment" mode.

It amuses me how someone who reads a post and can't even remember the facts correctly a few minutes later has the gall to even offer an opinion

First of all, I'm not 'hot and bothered'. The smilie I chose is (annoyed) which is closer to my mindset after reading such dribble as 200,000 baht a month to live on.

Secondly, where in my post did I say I have children? I don't; please try to get your facts straight before posting.

I make my father-in-laws truck payment because I want to.....it was my idea....he managed quite nicely making 2 years of payments before I came into the picture. I enjoy helping my wife's family live better and it's such a small amount of money.

You said this "I can summarise by saying that what posters have available themselves -whether it's Bt 25000 or Bt 140,000- is by some miraculous coincidence what one needs to get by in Thailand."

What a joke! Your assumption is totally wrong IMO. I could easily spend 200,000 baht a month (I have a pension, paid-for rental property in the states, and other investments working). I spend what I need to enjoy a good life style doing what I want. Each month my net worth goes up which makes Steve even happier Most farangs I know live basically the same way.

<----- this is my mindset for your post (rolleyes)....another 'Thai expert' with incorrect facts and assumptions.

Sorry you think I live a 'rather sad' life.......actually I've never been happier after escaping the 'rat race' working in the States.

The OP said he wanted to live outside of BKK. By the tone of his post he's wanting to know the cost to live what most would consider a nice lifestyle (ie TV,internet,nice house/apt,recreation money). I don't glean from the OP that he's looking to jet somewhere each weekend.....he wants to know the COST TO LIVE IN THAILAND. Therefore I took exception to this comment by 'expatgaz' :

"Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous." Actually 25,000 is spot-on for a significant number of expats. I personally know an expat working in downtown Udon Thani who makes 15,000 baht a month and he's happy. Not enough money for me but he is happy that's what's important.

One of the purposes of a forum like this is to pass on RELIABLE info to help people make decisions......I will admit it does annoy me slightly when I see rubbish posted.

Everyone have a nice day.

[expatgaz]

Listen, lets get things straight.Firstly the question was how much we need.My amount is what I need, yes...me, not you or him or them but me.If I decide I want to spend more then thats my choice.I will now break down a few things for the likes of LUVDABLUES, I live in Jomtien, View Talay Villas to be exact, lived in THailand for close to 10 years, 25,000 per month wouldn't even cover my beer bill, let alone restaurant bills.I take my wife and child on holidays / breaks frequently, including cruises, We only travel in style and only stay in 5 star hotel, again my choice.So basically 200,000 per month is less than 3,000 quid, 750 quid a week.If people can manage on 25,000- 50,000 then fine ,however I like more.MY CHOICE springs to mind.

[LoveDaBlues]

Listen, lets get things straight.Firstly the question was how much we need.My amount is what I need, yes...me, not you or him or them but me.If I decide I want to spend more then thats my choice.I will now break down a few things for the likes of LUVDABLUES, I live in Jomtien, View Talay Villas to be exact, lived in THailand for close to 10 years, 25,000 per month wouldn't even cover my beer bill, let alone restaurant bills.I take my wife and child on holidays / breaks frequently, including cruises, We only travel in style and only stay in 5 star hotel, again my choice.So basically 200,000 per month is less than 3,000 quid, 750 quid a week.If people can manage on 25,000- 50,000 then fine ,however I like more.MY CHOICE springs to mind.

I agree with this post 100%. You're right. Your term 'MY CHOICE' is spot-on. So I think you'll now agree that your comment: "Some of the figures quoted of 25,000....there just ridiculous." is totally wrong because this figure of 25,000 is SOMEONE ELSES CHOICE of a decent life style.

Lord it's hard to be humble.......

[Gary A]

If I drank 25,000 baht worth of beer a month I wouldn't have to worry about how much money I spend because I wouldn't need much. I wouldn't live long enough to spend much.

My wife has me spoiled because she is a great cook. I can't get that good of food in a restaurant. Once in a while we do go to a big local fish pond and have a leisurely dinner on a floating raft. Tam Yam, fresh fish and fresh prawn are better there than at home. A small bottle of Sang Som for me makes it perfect. The wife pays the bill so I don't even know how much it costs.

Listen, lets get things straight.Firstly the question was how much we need.My amount is what I need, yes...me, not you or him or them but me.If I decide I want to spend more then thats my choice.I will now break down a few things for the likes of LUVDABLUES, I live in Jomtien, View Talay Villas to be exact, lived in THailand for close to 10 years, 25,000 per month wouldn't even cover my beer bill, let alone restaurant bills.I take my wife and child on holidays / breaks frequently, including cruises, We only travel in style and only stay in 5 star hotel, again my choice.So basically 200,000 per month is less than 3,000 quid, 750 quid a week.If people can manage on 25,000- 50,000 then fine ,however I like more.MY CHOICE springs to mind.

[expatgaz]

Agreed, Choice.So yes if people can survive on 25,000 per month, fair play.To me it seems really low but hey, lets not sqabble abt it.Live to your means and what your comfortable with. 25,000 per month though would only just cover school costs so I suppose it depends on your situation.

[LoveDaBlues]

That much Thai beer bound to impair rational thinking too.......

Gary my Thai wife is an excellent cook also. And she's learning to cook all the dishes just the way I like em.....

[LoveDaBlues]

Agreed, Choice.So yes if people can survive on 25,000 per month, fair play.To me it seems really low but hey, lets not sqabble abt it.Live to your means and what your comfortable with. 25,000 per month though would only just cover school costs so I suppose it depends on your situation.

Agreed no squabbles then. Cheers.

[Ricardo]

There aren't enough ethnic Chinese either (unlike Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea... the latter mostly through genetics/mixing over hundreds of years). Thailand's best bet would be to open property ownership to those of Singaporean, Taiwanese, and Chinese nationalities and to lift all visa restrictions regarding immigration for the same groups. It's been happening anyway over the years, may as well speed up the process.

Agree 110%

Margaret Thatcher's biggest economic mistake in the UK,politics aside, was not to invite all 6 million Hong-Kong Chinese back to the England. While radical, it would have been a drastic shot-in-the arm to a slow-growth economy, bringing skills & capital & a work-ethic which we needed.

Quite apart from the moral duty we had to them - to offer an alternative home to our colonists.

[BlackJack]

so i hope we all agree now

[NovaBlue05]

so i hope we all agree now

Yep...In summary, it easily costs between 25K and 250K Bt per month..

Seriously, After mortgage & car payments, I live fine on under 40K Bt/ month in one of the more expensive cities in the US so no reason that it would not be do-able on 25K in Isaan assuming housing and auto are clear.

You can spend as much as you want. Some travel to Bangkok and insist on paying western prices to stay in certain hotels when they could stay in a perfectly nice hotel for a fraction of the cost. Same with 1st class plane tickets when coach gets them there...Some have champagne habits on a beer income while others have beer habits on a champagne income......Different strokes for different folks.....although I tend to be a bit more utilitarian myself..

[LoveDaBlues]

so i hope we all agree now

Yep...In summary, it easily costs between 25K and 250K Bt per month..

Seriously, After mortgage & car payments, I live fine on under 40K Bt/ month in one of the more expensive cities in the US so no reason that it would not be do-able on 25K in Isaan assuming housing and auto are clear.

You can spend as much as you want. Some travel to Bangkok and insist on paying western prices to stay in certain hotels when they could stay in a perfectly nice hotel for a fraction of the cost. Same with 1st class plane tickets when coach gets them there...Some have champagne habits on a beer income while others have beer habits on a champagne income......Different strokes for different folks.....although I tend to be a bit more utilitarian myself..

LOL......yea these threads always end up the same. Since most OP aren't too specific on how they live I always try to answer the question from a 'middle-class' life style. The OP can then adjust up/down depending on their needs.

I think I've found (after trying different options) a combination that would well suit a large percentage of ex-pats. I don't like the 'boonies' like where my wife is from. Just not enough infrastructure; nothing to do. I don't like living in the city. Too much pollution, noise, traffic, etc. So I live 9 miles outside of Udon Thani. My nearest neighbor about 200 yards away. Beautiful views and quiet. Can pop over to the village restaurant for some tasty dishes (20 baht) when the wife doesn't want to cook or quickly drive into town for American/Mexican/whatever food. The city is close enough that we drive into town maybe 3 times a week on average. The downside is you gotta have a vehicle; some people don't want to make that commitment/expense. Upside is as you get 'out of town' rents/buying price goes down. The house I'm renting would cost double in town. This 'system of Thai living' works for me and should be applicable in any area of Thailand.

Steve

[Maestro]

Some of you may be interested in the calculator at the following link. It takes into account both interest and drawdown of the initial lump sum (not just the interest).

https://www.tools.asiapacific.hsbc.com/inve...rawal&init=true

I tried that link but get the unexpected result of “Your investment will last for 0 years and 0 months”. I put 1000000 in the first field, 4000 in the second, 5 in the third. What did I do wrong?

---------------

Maestro

[BlackJack]

it means you have tooooooooo much money and cant spend it all

1 million x 5% = 50K but its compounded interest and also you are using the priciple as well as the interest

in simple terms you need to spend more each month

if you have trouble spending it let me know as i have a few sure things for you

[NovaBlue05]

Some of you may be interested in the calculator at the following link. It takes into account both interest and drawdown of the initial lump sum (not just the interest).

https://www.tools.asiapacific.hsbc.com/inve...rawal&init=true

I tried that link but get the unexpected result of “Your investment will last for 0 years and 0 months”. I put 1000000 in the first field, 4000 in the second, 5 in the third. What did I do wrong?

---------------

Maestro

Here's another calculator you can try

http://www.fireseeker.com/

[Cassandra]

so i hope we all agree now

Yep...In summary, it easily costs between 25K and 250K Bt per month..

Seriously, After mortgage & car payments, I live fine on under 40K Bt/ month in one of the more expensive cities in the US so no reason that it would not be do-able on 25K in Isaan assuming housing and auto are clear.

You can spend as much as you want. Some travel to Bangkok and insist on paying western prices to stay in certain hotels when they could stay in a perfectly nice hotel for a fraction of the cost. Same with 1st class plane tickets when coach gets them there...Some have champagne habits on a beer income while others have beer habits on a champagne income......Different strokes for different folks.....although I tend to be a bit more utilitarian myself..

LOL......yea these threads always end up the same. Since most OP aren't too specific on how they live I always try to answer the question from a 'middle-class' life style. The OP can then adjust up/down depending on their needs.

I think I've found (after trying different options) a combination that would well suit a large percentage of ex-pats. I don't like the 'boonies' like where my wife is from. Just not enough infrastructure; nothing to do. I don't like living in the city. Too much pollution, noise, traffic, etc. So I live 9 miles outside of Udon Thani. My nearest neighbor about 200 yards away. Beautiful views and quiet. Can pop over to the village restaurant for some tasty dishes (20 baht) when the wife doesn't want to cook or quickly drive into town for American/Mexican/whatever food. The city is close enough that we drive into town maybe 3 times a week on average. The downside is you gotta have a vehicle; some people don't want to make that commitment/expense. Upside is as you get 'out of town' rents/buying price goes down. The house I'm renting would cost double in town. This 'system of Thai living' works for me and should be applicable in any area of Thailand.

Steve

Sounds idyllic and would suit many people including myself in a few years time.But its not by any stretch of the imagination a "middle class" lifestyle which would imply a much more upmarket and higher cost lifestyle.Its a low end and low cost rural existence and none the worse for that.But maybe you're from the USA where everyone and everything are middle class.

[expatgaz]

so i hope we all agree now

Yep...In summary, it easily costs between 25K and 250K Bt per month..

Seriously, After mortgage & car payments, I live fine on under 40K Bt/ month in one of the more expensive cities in the US so no reason that it would not be do-able on 25K in Isaan assuming housing and auto are clear.

You can spend as much as you want. Some travel to Bangkok and insist on paying western prices to stay in certain hotels when they could stay in a perfectly nice hotel for a fraction of the cost. Same with 1st class plane tickets when coach gets them there...Some have champagne habits on a beer income while others have beer habits on a champagne income......Different strokes for different folks.....although I tend to be a bit more utilitarian myself..

LOL......yea these threads always end up the same. Since most OP aren't too specific on how they live I always try to answer the question from a 'middle-class' life style. The OP can then adjust up/down depending on their needs.

I think I've found (after trying different options) a combination that would well suit a large percentage of ex-pats. I don't like the 'boonies' like where my wife is from. Just not enough infrastructure; nothing to do. I don't like living in the city. Too much pollution, noise, traffic, etc. So I live 9 miles outside of Udon Thani. My nearest neighbor about 200 yards away. Beautiful views and quiet. Can pop over to the village restaurant for some tasty dishes (20 baht) when the wife doesn't want to cook or quickly drive into town for American/Mexican/whatever food. The city is close enough that we drive into town maybe 3 times a week on average. The downside is you gotta have a vehicle; some people don't want to make that commitment/expense. Upside is as you get 'out of town' rents/buying price goes down. The house I'm renting would cost double in town. This 'system of Thai living' works for me and should be applicable in any area of Thailand.

Steve

Sounds idyllic and would suit many people including myself in a few years time.But its not by any stretch of the imagination a "middle class" lifestyle which would imply a much more upmarket and higher cost lifestyle.Its a low end and low cost rural existence and none the worse for that.But maybe you're from the USA where everyone and everything are middle class.

Agree fully Cassandra, what is described maybe very nice indeed but middle class???? dont think so, but again as you quite rightly stated all Americans seem to think their middle class.My lifestyle in THailand I would class as middle class and this is a brief description. Home owner, resort city close to the beach, home 15 mil plus.Private International school approx 500,000 per year,going to a reataurant to eat approx 3000 (like a nice red wine), play golf 3 times per week, drive BMW. This is what I would class as middle class.I can see this arguement developing from how much is enough to what class.May I also add I came from a lower class upbringing.

[Gary A]

Turn of your firewall and it will work.

Some of you may be interested in the calculator at the following link. It takes into account both interest and drawdown of the initial lump sum (not just the interest).

https://www.tools.asiapacific.hsbc.com/inve...rawal&init=true

I tried that link but get the unexpected result of “Your investment will last for 0 years and 0 months”. I put 1000000 in the first field, 4000 in the second, 5 in the third. What did I do wrong?

---------------

Maestro

[kaisaigai]

As I have been in Thailand only for a couple of holidays, it's very interesting to see on how much money some people on this board actually live in Thailand. The stories of some posters here, for example from Gary A and LoveDaBlues....., support my idea that it is quite possible to live here on 25.000 baht per month, provided that you have a house and car that is fully paid for.

In my calculations I take the following cost into account:

(all in baht per month and based on a two-person household somewhere outside BKK or a touristic area)

Food/drinks: 5000

Utilities: 2000 (one airco in the bedroom, switched on at night )

Insurance: 2000

Depreciation of household appliances, furniture et cetera: 1000

House maintenance: 500

Visa cost + some weekend getaways: 2500

Personal care (ie contact lenzes, toothpaste etc) : 1500

Internet + telephone: 1000

A night out: 1000

Newspapers, books, vcd's etc: 500

Clothes: 1000

UBC: 1500

Car (insurance, taxes, depreciation, petrol): 5000

Miscellaneous: 500

This add up to exactly 25.000

However, as I would like to visit my family and friends at least once a year I am short of around 8.000 baht per month Or I should replace the old 4-wheel drive that I am planning to buy by a motorcycle.

Please feel free to criticize the breakdown of the monthly costs I made.

[NovaBlue05]

Sounds idyllic and would suit many people including myself in a few years time.But its not by any stretch of the imagination a "middle class" lifestyle which would imply a much more upmarket and higher cost lifestyle.Its a low end and low cost rural existence and none the worse for that.But maybe you're from the USA where everyone and everything are middle class.

Agree fully Cassandra, what is described maybe very nice indeed but middle class???? dont think so, but again as you quite rightly stated all Americans seem to think their middle class.My lifestyle in THailand I would class as middle class and this is a brief description. Home owner, resort city close to the beach, home 15 mil plus.Private International school approx 500,000 per year,going to a reataurant to eat approx 3000 (like a nice red wine), play golf 3 times per week, drive BMW. This is what I would class as middle class.I can see this arguement developing from how much is enough to what class.May I also add I came from a lower class upbringing.

Yes...I assume a simpler, more rural/less expensive existence in the NE. Also...yes, raising and schooling kids is a factor I omit because it doesnt apply to myself. Certainly, If it did, then the cost of educating them in an English speaking school would dramatically increase costs & the figure you mention is in line with that. Beyond that, Im thinking more in line with a 4M Bt home, a new truck , leaving most of my assets in investments and living exclusively off my pension with travel, recreation, dining out, etc as the spirit moves me (it moves me sporadically....not regularly).

"How much is enough to which class"?? I dont know because I don't equate class with income and, until the politicians, social scientists and economists provide a satisfactory correlation between the two, then I'll continue to view class as something you either have or you dont. However, if you ask "How much for what lifestyle..?" , then I guess the answer is the same as the old question about how much land is worth in a particular location. The answer being...its worth what you are willing to pay for it. Getting back to my previous post, thats why they have hotels in Bangkok that charge western prices....so you can come to Bkk and feel like you are back in Europe or the US

[backflip]

"all Americans seem to think their middle class"

Most of them ARE middle-class, and that's what makes that country economically viable. The bottom 10% can't afford the luxuries that you expect, and the top 10% only buy relatively few (but, generally expensive things. Economically, the middle-class in the US make between $25K-$100K, and they buy most of the stuff. It's a wide financial disparity, but that doesn't preclude the term "middle-class".

Too, isn't the phrase "living off your investments" the same as "retired"? At least in the US, retirees generally have a better standard of living than those who are still working.

You can also try the calculator @ www.financialengines.com, developed by a Nobel Prize winning economist. It's very cool.