Living Off Your Investments ...

[Artamus]

Actually, of all the variables involved.....death is the sure thing. Returns on investments (or losses) are speculation.

Actually, by researching family history and taking into consideration one's life style you can have a pretty good idea how long you'll live; probably more predictable than the stock market. I'm living to be 84 years, 3 months, and 6 days.

For planning purposes, those who want to find out when it's time to die. Try here:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/calcs/n_expect/main.asp

[BlackJack]

yes there is risk - even straining to hard on the toilet is a risk

BUT the trick is to minimise the risk - strain for no more than 5 seconds

Stocks also have risks and so you also need to minimise this by doing your homework

In Australia for example you can get online and work out your risk profile then look up the 1,3,5,7 + year returns on a share/stock/fund. These are also rated from 1 to 5 stars.

Not rocket science but hey you can get a good idea from these 2 things.

The other thing that I found is that a lot of billion dollars companies RENT where they are for 10, 15, 20 years at a fixed rate adjusted each year for inflation

I bought a share fund within this group and the returns are impressive at 17% with little risk

THe other thing you need to be aware of is that the one share has growth and capital - meaning that the share price if bought for $1 should grow over the years to say $5

PLUS you get your dividened each month, 3 months, 12 months - something to live on.

Another share factor is that CHina is growing and has huge energy and materials demand. China has signed huge 20 year plus contracts in the mining resources area - again making commodities a better than average return in capital and growth

Risk again is minimised as contracts are in place for 20 years

Third is that all this money and business has to end up somewhere and usually the bank has its finger in the pie - so buy shares or a fund based on the banks - they never loose

these 3 things will minimise the risk and give you a healthy monthly yearly income

LAST i suggest that you buy a few wild card stocks - cheap

I recently bought shares in a NANO bio tech group - now the FDA fast tracked it and within a year their products will be on the market. There are huge demands for this product and so next year should see the price go from 46 cents to mega dollars

So spread the risk

dont strain

[astral]

Some excellent advice has been posted, I would add the wild card that is often devalued, rising health costs.

In your thirties, medical considerations are almost a non-issue. But as you age insurance premiums are going to go up, God forbid you have to check in the ER and have a lengthly stay while under- insured, it could be a major setback.

The imporrtant thing here is to get in an insurance scheme early

BEFORE all those pre-existing conditions start getting added.

It may look like money down the drain in the early days, but it will pay later.

[LoveDaBlues]

Actually, of all the variables involved.....death is the sure thing. Returns on investments (or losses) are speculation.

Actually, by researching family history and taking into consideration one's life style you can have a pretty good idea how long you'll live; probably more predictable than the stock market. I'm living to be 84 years, 3 months, and 6 days.

For planning purposes, those who want to find out when it's time to die. Try here:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/calcs/n_expect/main.asp

Results

Answer

Life Expectancy 95

Details

Ideal Weight 158

Biggest positive factors Age of parents,Diet,Age of grandparents

Biggest negative factors Family health,Gender

Assumptions & Simplifications

This calculator uses the averages for life expectancy based on your age, sex, family history and personal lifestyle

wow.....looks like I'll be begging for the last 11 years Or maybe the TW really will let me stay in the house......

[BlackJack]

Some excellent advice has been posted, I would add the wild card that is often devalued, rising health costs.

In your thirties, medical considerations are almost a non-issue. But as you age insurance premiums are going to go up, God forbid you have to check in the ER and have a lengthly stay while under- insured, it could be a major setback.

The imporrtant thing here is to get in an insurance scheme early

BEFORE all those pre-existing conditions start getting added.

It may look like money down the drain in the early days, but it will pay later.

yes

agree

friend of mine - younger had a heart attack - all up 1 million baht and ongoing out patient 12 months on

health care is a good investment

[MikeRay]

Under current circumstances I´ll have to work untill 63 anyways.With my lifestyle at the moment I won´t get elder than 70 years.

So I would have to save 2500 pounds a year untill pension for a decent lifestyle. Plus my regular pension, I´ll manage to live quite well.Lucky me , I´m still young and it´s in my hands to retire earlier. At least if my 3 kids will be out of the house- our reason at the moment for not beeing able to save a penny

Edited September 6, 2006 by MikeRay

[Roamin]

[The imporrtant thing here is to get in an insurance scheme early

BEFORE all those pre-existing conditions start getting added.

It may look like money down the drain in the early days, but it will pay later.

yes

agree

friend of mine - younger had a heart attack - all up 1 million baht and ongoing out patient 12 months on

health care is a good investment

Health Insurance is a MUST! Get it and never let it go - it's well worth the money. If you never get sick then good for you but if you get one of the big ones like cancer, treatment will cost a fortune even tho' it's a lot cheaper here than most other places.

[Beavis and Butthead]

BKK life is expensive; my rent alone is 60K + 5K uts + 20K food + 10K beer lao + 5K bar + 5K visa run and travel expense averaged out + 20K misc. so that's 125K i spend every month with no vehicular or local transport expense figured or health insurance, emergency money, travel back home. This is for myself and gf. I'd never make it on 60K, it would be like being homeless. I barely make it on 125K. A friend of mine here in BKK pisses away 60K a month btw Starbucks, dinner and bar easy

Edited September 6, 2006 by Beavis and Butthead

[Nongwahyay]

BKK life is expensive; my rent alone is 60K + 5K uts + 20K food + 10K beer lao + 5K bar + 5K visa run and travel expense averaged out + 20K misc. so that's 125K i spend every month with no vehicular or local transport expense figured or health insurance, emergency money, travel back home. This is for myself and gf. I'd never make it on 60K, it would be like being homeless. I barely make it on 125K. A friend of mine here in BKK pisses away 60K a month btw Starbucks, dinner and bar easy

What a load of drivel.........

[snakestick]

I believe it. Let's say someone goes to a bar evey night and spends 1000 baht, which is easy to do, that person would be spending 30K per month or 5K more than Gary A says he spends monthly to live comfortably. My feeling is that Gary A should contact Ripley's believe it or not ASAP

[backflip]

If you spend 1000 baht in a bar every day, you probably have other problems to consider than just "money".

[Gary A]

I believe it. Let's say someone goes to a bar evey night and spends 1000 baht, which is easy to do, that person would be spending 30K per month or 5K more than Gary A says he spends monthly to live comfortably. My feeling is that Gary A should contact Ripley's believe it or not ASAP

When I first retired here, 1,000 baht for a night at the bar wouldn't have covered it for sure. That said, if I did that every night I wouldn't need much money because I wouldn't live long enough to spend much. Hangovers from those kinds of nights last me about three days, then another day of not being able to stand the smell of alcohol.

My best farang friend up here in the boonies was feeling bad nearly every day. He finally went to the doctor who immediately sent him to the hospital for a lot of tests. The conclusion was that if he wanted to continue his lifestyle that he had about six months to live. My friend's liver couldn't stand the abuse. He has gone from a steady diet of Chang to a teetotaler.

Many Thai people up here earn less than 5,000 baht per month. They are able to take care of their family on that wage. If the expats can't survive on 100,000 plus per month no wonder the Thais think we are all filthy rich. If you can afford to and want to spend that kind of money, good for you. Different strokes for different folks. I have no debt and pay no rent and for me to spend more than 25,000 baht a month, I would have to throw money away. FWIW, I COULD afford to spend that much.

I certainly wouldn't want to have to live on a budget. Fortunately I don't have to and if I want a new toy, I buy it. CASH!

[BlackJack]

BKK life is expensive; my rent alone is 60K + 5K uts + 20K food + 10K beer lao + 5K bar + 5K visa run and travel expense averaged out + 20K misc. so that's 125K i spend every month with no vehicular or local transport expense figured or health insurance, emergency money, travel back home. This is for myself and gf. I'd never make it on 60K, it would be like being homeless. I barely make it on 125K. A friend of mine here in BKK pisses away 60K a month btw Starbucks, dinner and bar easy

stop renting

[BlackJack]

If you spend 1000 baht in a bar every day, you probably have other problems to consider than just "money".

spend all your money dude as if you hangout in bars every night i have a rough idea of what your lifestyles about

so in my book you dont have long to live or you will get sick

better shape up or you will be shipped out in a box

MODERATION in everything is acceptable

[Hans Brix]

I think a lot of folks living in BKK, Pattaya and Phuket spend many nights in the bar spending cash as these places are a bar culture. For them, living in the boonies on a peasant's wage is not why they came to Thailand. I think these folks would rather live back home like a regular person in that case

[LoveDaBlues]

BKK life is expensive; my rent alone is 60K + 5K uts + 20K food + 10K beer lao + 5K bar + 5K visa run and travel expense averaged out + 20K misc. so that's 125K i spend every month with no vehicular or local transport expense figured or health insurance, emergency money, travel back home. This is for myself and gf. I'd never make it on 60K, it would be like being homeless. I barely make it on 125K. A friend of mine here in BKK pisses away 60K a month btw Starbucks, dinner and bar easy

Another reason not to live in BKK (unless you have no choice). Way too expensive. 60K rent? I pay 6K for 4BR, 3bath 10 year old house. Your expense for beer/bar tells me you have a problem drinking too much. 20K for food? I eat almost all Western style food and the TW Issan & Thai style food; we spend around 10K for food (this includes meals out).

Your friend spends $50.00 USD per day on starsucks, dinner, and bar.....more money than brains.........

[LoveDaBlues]

I think a lot of folks living in BKK, Pattaya and Phuket spend many nights in the bar spending cash as these places are a bar culture. For them, living in the boonies on a peasant's wage is not why they came to Thailand. I think these folks would rather live back home like a regular person in that case

You've got in wrong. Thailand has some great areas close to larger cities where you can live on the cheap (I didn't say live a cheap lifestyle). I do what I want when I want; can't do it on a peasant's wage (4,000 baht in my area).

It doesn't matter where you live in Thailand if you have a drinking problem. If one spends 30,000 baht a month drinking he could live in Pattaya or boonies; the problem (and expense) is still there.

I live the same lifestyle here as back in the states; it's just a whole lot cheaper. Nice car, meals out, golf, visits with friends, etc.

Life is good ........for 40-50K per month.....

[Hans Brix]

That's cool my man. I guess it's up to the lifestyle the person wants to live. I guess choosing BKK is like choosing NYC in the USA and you gotta shell out a lot of cash if that's where you want to hang out

[LoveDaBlues]

That's cool my man. I guess it's up to the lifestyle the person wants to live. I guess choosing BKK is like choosing NYC in the USA and you gotta shell out a lot of cash if that's where you want to hang out

Great comparison, BKK = NYC. It does come down to lifestyle. If you gotta have vehicle traffic, foot traffic, bad air, high rent and the GOOD THINGS that come with BKK I say go for it!

For me I'll stick to the middle ground. Don't like BKK but can't stand the boonies either; too boring.

Cheers.

[sleepyjohn]

I've always looked on insurance as something to be avoided if possible, as one is of course giving away a considerable amount to run the insurance company and give it a profit.

I think when it becomes necessary is if any risk is likely to cost more than a modest %age of your wealth, such that it would really lower your future standard of living.

So as for my car, what's the downside? Most accidents are likely to cost less than 50,000baht. Worst, very unlikely indeed, is replacement car, say 750,000. That is a very slight chance of the loss of a %age of my capital. Therefore I pay 1000baht legal minimum insurance.

Trying to extend this to health, yes of course in the US it's likely to break you because of the criminal pricing there. But I have just visited a friend who's had a very serious heart episode aged 78.

Pacemaker will cost 200kbaht. Angiogram not sure but I'm guessing less than half that. Care, well it's been pretty cheap for me. Had a friend had a colostomy and reversal, everything cost about 3000GBP. So let's suppose it's much worse than these. Bypass and all the trimmings. I can only guess a real bad episode might come to a million or two. Well maybe it's worth once again "insuring oneself".

I'd be very interested to know what big or biggish health problems have cost people and hope it's considered right on topic as it will help me decide if I'm doing the right thing or need to adjust my future financial needs.

I think we tend to try too hard these days to make life "risk free". Those in the US have to seriously compromise their health mental and physical and quality of life by overworking to pay for healthcare. There is no such thing as absolute security, and I think there's a certain freedom to be gained in letting it go a bit.

So any health costs here available?

Edited September 7, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[Heng]

I've always looked on insurance as something to be avoided if possible, as one is of course giving away a considerable amount to run the insurance company and give it a profit.

I think when it becomes necessary is if any risk is likely to cost more than a modest %age of your wealth, such that it would really lower your future standard of living.

So as for my car, what's the downside? Most accidents are likely to cost less than 50,000baht. Worst, very unlikely indeed, is replacement car, say 750,000. That is a very slight chance of the loss of a %age of my capital. Therefore I pay 1000baht legal minimum insurance.

Trying to extend this to health, yes of course in the US it's likely to break you because of the criminal pricing there. But I have just visited a friend who's had a very serious heart episode aged 78.

Pacemaker will cost 200kbaht. Angiogram not sure but I'm guessing less than half that. Care, well it's been pretty cheap for me. Had a friend had a colostomy and reversal, everything cost about 3000GBP. So let's suppose it's much worse than these. Bypass and all the trimmings. I can only guess a real bad episode might come to a million or two. Well maybe it's worth once again "insuring oneself".

I'd be very interested to know what big or biggish health problems have cost people and hope it's considered right on topic as it will help me decide if I'm doing the right thing or need to adjust my future financial needs.

I think we tend to try too hard these days to make life "risk free". Those in the US have to seriously compromise their health mental and physical and quality of life by overworking to pay for healthcare. There is no such thing as absolute security, and I think there's a certain freedom to be gained in letting it go a bit.

I think a lot of folks who are fully insured and also self insured look at insurance as purchasing a service. It means someone will be there to handle a car accident scene for you. It means you don't have to explain to some admitting nurse how you're going to pay for treatment.

That said, if one can't afford to insure oneself, and don't foresee yourself being able to afford it until death, then perhaps it's best to go for self insurance.... as a huge part of the insurance profit margin (apart from the actuary stats that say that yes, most likely bad things won't happen to you, as per your argument) are folks that discard their insurance policies (for example purchasing life insurance, paying for X-XX years and then allowing the policy to lapse with no benefits paid).

[Napolean_Complex]

Actually, of all the variables involved.....death is the sure thing. Returns on investments (or losses) are speculation.

Actually, by researching family history and taking into consideration one's life style you can have a pretty good idea how long you'll live; probably more predictable than the stock market. I'm living to be 84 years, 3 months, and 6 days.

For planning purposes, those who want to find out when it's time to die. Try here:

http://moneycentral.msn.com/investor/calcs/n_expect/main.asp

I dont like that website at all. According to that im gonna live till im 41...Im only 26 now!!

[Napolean_Complex]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

[Thaiquila]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

I vote no. You are too young to do that unless you have good reason to believe that life expectancy prediction is likely.

If you did try that, I would put most of it into much higher risk investments, growth and value stocks, diversified internationally, and start out your withdrawal at 4 percent (over 17,000 per year Canadian) and increase the withdrawal rate every year a tiny bit for inflation adjustment.

As far as your assertion that you can earn over 1 million baht a year from 440 CAD, year after year, I am skeptical. How exactly?

[cclub75]

I vote no. You are too young to do that unless you have good reason to believe that life expectancy prediction is likely.

If you did try that, I would put most of it into much higher risk investments, growth and value stocks, diversified internationally, and start out your withdrawal at 4 percent (over 17,000 per year Canadian) and increase the withdrawal rate every year a tiny bit for inflation adjustment.

As far as your assertion that you can earn over 1 million baht a year from 440 CAD, year after year, I am skeptical. How exactly?

I say "nay" too.

At 26, you didn't had enough of western bullshit. It means your education is not finished. You should wait a few years more.

More seriously : the age is a concern. As for the money, a part your 440 K CAD, can you expect an heritage from your parents ?

As for the 90 000 THB. Well your CAD converted to a fixed time deposit in AUD, at 5.2% in Singapore (tax free) = 64 000 THB per month.

How can you do more ?

[Firefan]

That is about US$400k. At your young age I agree with Thaiquila that 4-5%(+yearly infl. adj.) withdrawal seems prudent. That is a max of US$20k/year corresponding to about Baht 65000/mth. You are close to your target but not quite there. AS you have read here; some find that plenty of money for a single guy here, others want at least twice that. Personally I think it is plenty.

Note that the 4-5% number is based on a well diversified, low cost portfolio - containing global stocks(large/small)/bonds/commodities - and not just some cash deposits, as they rarely will keep you up with inflation.

As you grow older, you can consider to dig into the principal.

As to your question; from a financial view point I would save just a little bit more, but there can be many other view point, such as your job driving you nuts/making you sick Etc. If that was the case I would probably take the jump - but I am a bit of a risk taker

Don't forget to buy health insurance!

Cheers!

[Firefan]

As to health insurance; I think the main question is, can one afford NOT to buy health insurance? One does not buy it to cover the petty costs of doctors visits/normal medicine, but to protect aganst the catastrophic events, that would wipe out a person financially(should he/she survive).

World class brain surgery in Singapore with medical evacuation from Thailand+after treatment can run up to $150k. Even here in Thailand it can be $50k+. Also; having the insurance card in your pocket/car whatever increases the chance that you will actually be BROUGHT to a decent hospital for that initial life saving treatment after an accident.

Cheers!

[bmanly]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

No, it is not enough. The best you can generate without taking silly risks is between 60 to 65K per month. At age 26 there is no way you should be eating into your capital so don't be tempted.

BKK life is expensive; my rent alone is 60K + 5K uts + 20K food + 10K beer lao + 5K bar + 5K visa run and travel expense averaged out + 20K misc. so that's 125K i spend every month with no vehicular or local transport expense figured or health insurance, emergency money, travel back home. This is for myself and gf. I'd never make it on 60K, it would be like being homeless. I barely make it on 125K. A friend of mine here in BKK pisses away 60K a month btw Starbucks, dinner and bar easy

Mate, look I live very very well on 60K per Month. I rent a nice 64 sq m condo and motorcycle and including all utilities for 10K per Month. I go out 5 to 6 nights a week and can easily spend 1,000 Baht per night. I go away about every 4 to 6 weeks for a holiday and that is included too. My wife and I don't skimp on anything, however we never pay more than 500 to 700 Baht a night for a hotel anywhere in Thailand, it is not neccessary. We travel by aircon buses and trains and use visa runs as an excuse to go away somewhere. The other thing is we eat Thai food all the time which keeps costs down. How much one spends is up to them but I can't eat, drink and travel anymore than what I do already.

[BlackJack]

I think a lot of folks living in BKK, Pattaya and Phuket spend many nights in the bar spending cash as these places are a bar culture. For them, living in the boonies on a peasant's wage is not why they came to Thailand. I think these folks would rather live back home like a regular person in that case

getting smashed everynight will bite you on the bum later on

many eyes are watching you and soon enough they will make a move on you, your money, your assets

If you are burnt out from hanging out in the bar you are easy pickings - make no mistake - it doesnt matter whether THailand or another country

There are plenty of clubs and things to do here that dont cost 1000 baht a night in the bar

being a bar fly is OK but you grow out of it

[BlackJack]

Okay, lets take it to a vote.

I got 440,000 CAD, im 26 and think that I should be able to get about 90,000 THB/month out of that, without going into the principle.

Would you do it? Yea or nay.

you can't spend all your interest on the 440K as then you will be eating into your future

at 26 you are still being ruled by Mr Pink and the twins and being in Thailand Mr Pink will be visiting many many ladies - this costs

Soon enough you may get bored with this and get a full time floosy - this costs

as the water buffulo will need replacing as well as the old house of the parents, bro will have MB accident, sis will have problems too - this costs

maybe also you will want to start a business here so you can get some money on the side - this costs and possibly the first 2-3 business you start will not work or you will lose on them

May I suggest that you do a trial run - come here for 6 months - try it out - dont invest anything in THailand until you think it through

I say go to Cambodia casino - put it all on 8 black - double your money for sure - then you will have 880K