Choosing A Tablet

[Pib]

If you have a Google Voice account then you can run GrooVeIP on a tablet over WiFi, I do this and it is very, very, very cool.

I do have GrooVeIP on my smartphone. You may remember from the another thread on the MajicJackPlus which kinda mutated into also talking about the NetTalkDuo, GrooVeIP, and a couple other VOIP Apps. For me the GrooVeIP App won't respond (cause the phone to ring) to inbound calls after 10 or so minutes unless using a VPN connection...the App gives the indication it's ready and willing to respond with its GV icon lite-up green but it won't respond...a problem other GrooVeIP users also note. But this problem may be due to the network being used as I was using my home Wifi True DOCSIS internet plan since I didn't have a mobile data plan at the time....now I have a DTAC 3G plan.

At this very moment I running/testing GrooVeIP outbound and inbound tests on my new DTAC plan....so far, so good in terms of the phone responding to inbound calls after the phone has been idle for X-minutes...it has responded to inbound calls after being idle for 10, 20, 63, and 75 minutes. But there were a few times before on my home internet and not on VPN that it also continued to respond to inbound calls for a couple of hours...but for the most part unless I ran GrooVeIP with VPN connection it would stop responding to inbound calls after the phone has been idle for approx 10 minutes. Not a power saving issue....it's just some kind of connection/network/IP issue I figure that could easily occur on a tablet also with my luck....especially if it's a DOCSIS network/IP issue.

Still too early to tell if GrooVeIP works better in terms of responding to inbound calls on my mobile data plan. If I remember right in the other thread, GrooVeIP worked like a charm for you on home internet and mobile data.

Just an update on using GrooVeIP on my DTAC mobile data plan...works like a charm...doesn't lose its connection...responds (rings) to inbound calls whether the phone has been in idle for 10 minutes or overnight. I left the connection on mobile data for 32 hours in one test period and made inbound calls numerous times at varying intervals of my phone being in idle...whether 10, 20, or 30 minutes in idle, 1, 2, 5, or 10 hours in idle...phone rang every time. Calls were clear to/from the U.S.

Same result on home Wifi if using a VPN connection, but if the VPN connection drops for a few seconds and reestablishes itself GrooVeIP won't respond to inbound calls (even though in GV green icon implies it will) unless exiting and restarting GrooVeIP. Fortunately, my StrongVPN rarely drops its connecton unless the basic internet connection is interrupted for some reason.

When using the home Wifi without VPN GrooVeIP won't respond to inbound calls usually after 10 to 20 minutes of the phone being in idle. Same problem as before.

With a fresh GrooVeIP connection if I switch between mobile data and Wifi (or vice-versa) GrooVeIP won't respond to inbound calls everytime without an exit and restart. It displayed this problem in about 50% of the switches...and I did want several minutes after the switch before doing a test inbound call. I guess the changing of the IP address in this switch confuses GrooVeIP or my phone or something.

I thought before my problem with GrooVeIP might be GrooVeIP or GoogleVoice/Talk servers sensed my Thailand IP address and maybe the GoogleVoice/Talk link with GrooVeIP would just drop the connection after 10 or so minutes of inactivity but GrooVeIP wouldn't pickup on this and continue to display its green icon that's it running/connected just fine. But since the DTAC mobile connection also provides a Thailand IP address to GrooVeIP/GoogleVoice, and GrooVeIP continues to respond to inbound calls I'm guessing it's not a non-U.S. IP issue. Instead, just something about my home internet (True DOCSIS) normal, non-VPN connection doesn't agree with GrooVeIP...or it's just an issue with my Samsung Ace 2 which runs Android 2.3.6....or who knows for sure. I know the GrooVeIP developer don't as I've had at least a half dozen emails with them regarding the issue. I'll keep my fingers crossed that one day it will magically start working 100% of the time for home Wifi inbound calls due to some change in GrooVeIP/GoogleVoice, my home internet plan, my phone's firmware, etc.

Just FYI...GrooVeIP is a very good App but for me I can't rely on it to respond to inbound calls unless staying on mobile data all the time. Not a big deal as I got GrooVeIP primarily for outbound calls...but if the inbound call function always responded to calls on normal Wifi that would have been really sweet....and I expect it does for many. Just wanted to provide the feedback in case others might be interested on how GrooVeIP App worked on a DTAC 3G plan. Cheers.

[naboo]

It's interesting that as best as I could see, of those four tablets, only the Archos 80G9 showed up on Google's compatible list... I couldn't find MID, ONDA, AIGO or the previously mentioned Ainol models on the Google compatibility list.

It's one thing if you're shopping in a store and hopefully can see whether a tablet has the normal Google Play Store and other standard Google apps installed.

It's an entirely different thing when you're shopping online and you know it's an Android OS tablet, but can't necessarily see or tell whether the device has the Google suite of apps and is Google Play Store compatible. I see a lot of cheap Android tablets that loudly advertise they have Ice Cream Sandwich OS installed, but don't mention and don't have access to the Google Play Store and Google apps.

I bought an Onda Vi40 dual core a couple of weeks ago. Horrible Chinese software on it made it unuseable. This included a cracked version of Google Play. Thankfully, the guys at slatedroid forum had some custom versions of ICS and now it works a treat with Play identical to every other Android device I have used.

These cheap tablets are great, but only if you have a bit of know how.

[dddave]

Something to be aware of with cheap tablets; most available use either an A9, A10 or A13 processor. The A13 seems to be appearing more and more in the lowest priced tablets and is a stripped down version of the A10.

The A13 does not support HDMI which is a critical feature for many users.

As I suggested earlier, don't believe what's written on boxes or spec. sheets posted by online websellers. If you can not do a physical, hands-on inspection of the tablet you are considering, go to YOUTUBE. I was able to find at least one demonstration video for every brand sold on AliExpress. They are sometimes amateurish or in a language other than English but you can usually see the ports on the sides and the screenshots will usually show what apps are installed.

There are several YOUTUBE videos available showing the factories and assembly lines where these tablets are made: interesting viewing.

[Pib]

And of course don't buy a tablet unless you've seen the all important screen in operation and/or trust the screen review made on the tablet....is the screen clear and bright...or not so clear and bright regardless of the resolution rating? A lot of time people get all wrapped around screen resolution...higher is better I agree but you'll pay the price. You get to a certain resolution point where many people won't notice the difference in resolution for common everyday usage of the tablet. The screen is really important as you'll be staring at it all the time so be sure to get one with adequate resolution, is clear, is bright (or at least as clear and bright as you can find with all the different models on the market).

[dddave]

And of course don't buy a tablet unless you've seen the all important screen in operation and/or trust the screen review made on the tablet....is the screen clear and bright...or not so clear and bright regardless of the resolution rating? A lot of time people get all wrapped around screen resolution...higher is better I agree but you'll pay the price. You get to a certain resolution point where many people won't notice the difference in resolution for common everyday usage of the tablet. The screen is really important as you'll be staring at it all the time so be sure to get one with adequate resolution, is clear, is bright (or at least as clear and bright as you can find with all the different models on the market).

I agree and would add to this that I was surprised when surfing the AliExpress webstore that some of the cheaper tablets, even some running ICS had old style RESISTIVE screens rather than up to date capacitive. At first, I thought it must be an error; nobody could be dumb enough to still produce resistive screens;......I was wrong.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

No..that's right... When I'm browsing Amazon.com and a few other technology retail sites, I'm always seeing very cheap tablets loudly advertising Touch Screens and Android ICS... But what they don't say, or try to say very quietly, is that they are resistive screens instead of capacitive.

I'd sure be surprised if manufacturers are still making them new at present. But there clearly is an inventory of resistive screen models still being sold. And perhaps someone in China somewhere is still manufacturing them, mainly to get a price advantage over their capacitive brethren among price conscious shoppers who who don't care or don't notice the difference.

Meanwhile, amid this thread, I found that the manufacturer of my Android tablet, originally Honeycomb, finally released its promised ICS firmware update last week -- about a year after ICS was first released, and about 3 months after I bought the tablet. Downloaded and installed ICS from the manufacturer's website last night, and everything went smoothly with the update. Seems a much smoother and more fluid experience compared to Honeycomb -- not in terms of lag, because my model always has been pretty snappy, but in terms of the general fluidity of the screen movements and transitions.

[Pib]

You make it and price it right and people will buy it because many people really don't have a clue about design aspects/technical specifications. At the right price, with or without a smooth talking salesperson, any item will sell.

[Pib]

A CNET article that lists a lot of tablet models with their test results for Video Battery Life and Screen Display tests. Link

The battery life spec is good info but I'm not sure the screen display brightness/contrast test data is very useful to the layman except the screen size/resolution info. Probably best just to evaluate the screen in different lightning environments (including video) if possible....just like you would check out a TV screen.

[Pib]

Was cruising around the ARNOVA tablet (I see these sold in many Thai stores) web site and under their Customer Support FAQ area I found this about using Google Play and downloading Apps for ARNOVA tablets (a.k.a., apparently a no-go in using Google Play to get your Apps):

While researching some more it seems many of the less known tablets manufacturers like ARNOVA preinstall the App "AppsLIb" in place of "Google Play" since Google Play may not work/is certified to work with these manufacturers tablets/smartphones. AppsLib is a site like Google Play, Amazon, etc., to get Apps.

Below are two links...one to the AppLIb web page which list manufacturers which use AppLib, which may mean they are not compatible with Google Play...ARNOVA is on this list. And the other link is just a post from a blog where someone asks about how to get Google Play to work on their device versus using AppLib which I think distinctly sums up the device & Google Play compatibility issue.

Link to AppLib

Link to Post

[moonray]

Resistive screens were "in"very much just 1&1/2 years ago;they are still being used in simple pmp and other devices but in tablet? resistive screen is pain in ass!give it to toddlers for play.Friends received such tablet as a free gift with big TV.

It was free punishment for bad karma,whatever...not gift.

[moonray]

These cheap tablets are great, but only if you have a bit of know how.

You are right,first - they are meant for Chinese markets,they can be used by enthusiasts and others who are ready for certain degree of inconvinience including sacrifice.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

While researching some more it seems many of the less known tablets manufacturers like ARNOVA preinstall the App "AppsLIb" in place of "Google Play" since Google Play may not work/is certified to work with these manufacturers tablets/smartphones. AppsLib is a site like Google Play, Amazon, etc., to get Apps.

Below are two links...one to the AppLIb web page which list manufacturers which use AppLib, which may mean they are not compatible with Google Play...ARNOVA is on this list. And the other link is just a post from a blog where someone asks about how to get Google Play to work on their device versus using AppLib which I think distinctly sums up the device & Google Play compatibility issue.

Pib...thanks for all the interesting posts and info above...

I thought the Talk Android forum moderator's response on getting the Google Play app on devices that don't come with it pre-installed was interesting.

In order to use Google Play the OEM has to go through Google and most of the smaller ones don't. They [get] a better cut of profits from their third party app stores. Getting Google Play on a non-support device is a pain in the ass and involves a massive effort and rarely works. The Google apps need their own framework to work properly

Edited October 25, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Wanted to comment a bit on one of the Android tablet dilemmas I've been dealing with lately, having to do with video streaming.

There's lots of very good TV and movie video streaming content out there from U.S. sources that requires a U.S. IP address, or UK content with a UK IP address, etc etc. On a regular computer, that's a pretty easy issue to resolve through common VPN and proxy services that can be easily implemented either at the Wifi router or individual machine level.

In all of my testing of video streaming, however, good private authenticated proxies (ones that are paid with user ID and password access) usually significantly outperform the usual OpenSSL and PPTP VPN connections. So ideally for international video streaming on an Android tablet or phone, setting up a system-wide authenticated (user ID and password) proxy connection would be the better way to go... But I can't find any convenient way to achieve that on a non-rooted Android device.

On the Gingerbread and ICS phones and tablets I've dealt with, it's fairly easy to set up a slower VPN connection, usually PPTP, by going into the Wireless & Networks menu, then choosing "More" and then choosing "VPN" and "Add VPN Network." No problem with that, except that it's markedly slower than a good proxy connection, all other things being equal.

On non-rooted Android devices, you can set up "open" system-level proxies (no user ID and password) that are associated with a particular Wifi connection by long pressing that connection and then choosing "Modify Network" and then putting a check mark in the "Show Advanced Options" box, which then reveals dialog box settings for entering proxy hostname (address) and proxy port details -- but nothing for user ID and password.

Unfortunately, I can't find any method on a non-rooted Android device that allows the system-wide use of authenticated (user ID and password protected) proxies. On non-rooted devices, you can implement authenticated proxies through the advanced settings and/or add-ons in some Android browsers such as Firefox. But those proxies only work for content in those web browsers, not in separate Android apps like Netflix and those from professional sports where their content will only play in the app and not in Android device browsers.

So why is it so easy on a non-rooted Android device to set up a system-level VPN connection with user ID and password authentication, but it seems almost impossible to do the same for a authenticated proxy connection? ...Unless you are able to implement the proxy at the Wifi router level...and not all Wifi router firmware supports that.

[JimShortz]

Was cruising around the ARNOVA tablet (I see these sold in many Thai stores) web site and under their Customer Support FAQ area I found this about using Google Play and downloading Apps for ARNOVA tablets (a.k.a., apparently a no-go in using Google Play to get your Apps):

While researching some more it seems many of the less known tablets manufacturers like ARNOVA preinstall the App "AppsLIb" in place of "Google Play" since Google Play may not work/is certified to work with these manufacturers tablets/smartphones. AppsLib is a site like Google Play, Amazon, etc., to get Apps.

Below are two links...one to the AppLIb web page which list manufacturers which use AppLib, which may mean they are not compatible with Google Play...ARNOVA is on this list. And the other link is just a post from a blog where someone asks about how to get Google Play to work on their device versus using AppLib which I think distinctly sums up the device & Google Play compatibility issue.

Link to AppLib

Link to Post

My advice would be if there is no Google Play installed and working properly RUN A MILE, and believe me, I have been there... What a headache!

There is no reason to buy that rubbish now - lots of cheap semi-decent tablets available with Google Play installed and working.

[lopburi3]

Actually screen being capacitive or resistive is also a usage decision as resistive has advantage in writing and precision applications so not really dead and buried.

http://capacitive-resistive-touchscreens.articles.r-tt.com/

[Pib]

I hear you. Being able to use Google Play means access to the largest market place for free and paid Android Apps (now at around 600,000 apps), once you install the Apps from Google Play then Google Play can keep the Apps updated automatically on your device, maintains an online inventory of your installed and un-installed Apps, I expect Google Play does a very good job of screening out malware infected Apps, it's an easy to use Apps market/site, and the list just goes on, etc.

Pretty much eliminates the need to use other Apps market sites, round-up APK file versions of Apps and then side-load the Apps (possibly not the latest version)...or letting Somchai of XYZ smartphone shop install Apps for you (once again, possiby not the latest version and hopefully malware free), etc.

Being able to use Google Play just gives you easy access to the best source for Apps versus giving you something less. When I buy my tablet having Google Play will be a key "must-have" on the buy criteria checklist.

[Thailaw]

My advice would be if there is no Google Play installed and working properly RUN A MILE, and believe me, I have been there... What a headache!

There is no reason to buy that rubbish now - lots of cheap semi-decent tablets available with Google Play installed and working.

How about some brand names and model numbers of those "lots of cheap ... decent tablets available with Google Play installed and working", with the emphasis on "decent" (or "really good", even better) -- inquiring minds would like to know.

[KC 71]

The ipod 2 is a good option.i have been told it is the best device so far.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[Pib]

The ipod 2 is a good option.i have been told it is the best device so far.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

It don't run Android Apps worth a durn!

[JimShortz]

The ipod 2 is a good option.i have been told it is the best device so far.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

It don't run Android Apps worth a durn!

But is nevertheless a better choice than most android tablets - and not too expensive just now...

My choice anyway...

[dddave]

I've received some inquires as to where i purchased my ONDA Vi40 so I will put it here in case others want to know.

FORTUNE CITY, (Above Rama-9 MRT station) 2nd level in the newly renovated corridor area nearer the center of the building, a small retail shop just about opposite the (always crowded ((dig, dig))) Samsung Service Center. Sorry, the name escapes me but you will see the Ondas on display along with 7" Ainos.

In an earlier post in this thread I erroneously said I had purchased it at Pantip Plaza.

[edwardandtubs]

Anyone got any thoughts on the Upad U801, currently available for under 4000 baht at Big C?

[guzzi850m2]

Anyone got any thoughts on the Upad U801, currently available for under 4000 baht at Big C?

Can you play with one in big c? If yes then you can quickly see if it's responsive and screen nice.

It looks like a lot is happening on the tablet market now with new units coming out, incl a Windows 8 tablet and Apple too are launching, I think Nexus is too coming out with a 10" model. Okay this is not 4000 bath units but I have decided to wait for now and maybe buy one beginning next year and see what can be had then.

[Theoutsider]

Nice thread guys, I too am looking for a tab. I am not in Thailand at the moment but I have got some good info here. I liked like the info on the USB hard drives with their own power source:) cheers.

[Pib]

Anyone got any thoughts on the Upad U801, currently available for under 4000 baht at Big C?

Thanks for mentioning this model. After googling the Upad 801 quite a few Thai sites come up with info...apparently it's running ICS 4, has Google Play (I think I saw Google Play on the screen when visiting one of the sites), Capactive Screen at 1024 x728 resolution, Wifi, 8GB of memory, 1GB RAM, 0.3MP front camera, 2MP back camera, ExMicroSlot up to 32GB, various ports to include a HDMI port, 1 year warranty, etc. B3,999 seems to be the normal price I see the various sites quoting. Here's a Link with the specs....Google Translate is your friend on this link. Here's another Link with pictures. And here's a

to a short YouTube video showing someone playing a game on it. Sound promising for a basic tablet...one you could throw away if it dies after the 1 year warranty and not feel like you've lost too much. I just may visit Big C this weekend to take a look. Can't see to find any support website though...but I'm still googling. Edited October 26, 2012 by Pib

[edwardandtubs]

Anyone got any thoughts on the Upad U801, currently available for under 4000 baht at Big C?

Can you play with one in big c? If yes then you can quickly see if it's responsive and screen nice.

I was able to have a good game of Angry Birds when I played with it in Big C so the screen seemed nice and responsive. I did have problems hitting the right letters on the keyboard but that may be because I'm not used to typing like that. Maybe it would be better if turned horizontal.

Edited October 26, 2012 by edwardandtubs

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, what's your sense of the extent to which a non-U.S. country-coded Android tablet (probably mostly China-made and/or Thailand-purchased as regards the discussion here), even if it does come with the Google Play Store installed, is going to have a different and/or more limited set of apps available compared to a U.S. manufactured or country-coded one?

The whole locational issue with Android tablets has me a bit muddled, particularly recalling what you posted above about device country codes. Here's an odd example from my own experience with my U.S. purchased AT&T Pantech Element tablet, which may be a bit more complicated because the tablet, in addition to Wifi, also accepts/uses a data micro SIM card.

When I installed a AIS SIM card in its SIM slot, the tablet showed up in my Google Play profile as "AIS Pantech Element" and my choice of U.S. originating apps seemed constrained. But when I took that SIM out and replaced it with an AT&T SIM, at some point my Google Play Store device entry changed to "ATT Pantech Element" and I think my selection of available apps changed as well.

It also seems to make some difference as to whether or not I'm using a VPN when I sign into the Play Store on my PC.

More broadly, I've got one U.S. video streaming app that seemingly refuses to play here, even when I'm running a U.S. VPN connection on the tablet, because it seems to be seeking out some variety of other "locational services" on the tablet such as those from Google. And it isn't happy that I've either turned that off or not giving the app access to it.

[Pib]

TallGuy,

From my googling on this subject apparently both Google Play and/or the App developer can include hardware, software, location, licensing, and other uses-featrue attributes to determine whether an App is identified as compatible with your Android device and installable from Google Play. Take a look at these two Links.

Link 1: Uses-feature

Link 2: App Licensing

I expect when a person logs on via VPN which gives a U.S. IP address then Google Play uses certain attributes tied to the App which will only show those Apps allowed to be used at your location based on the geo-location coding in your device. Just using the Google Earth and Google Voice Apps as an example, I can only see them on Google Play when I logon via VPN with my U.S. IP address, but I still can't install them from Google Play because they are identified as incompatible with my device most probably due to the geo-location coding of my phone sold for the Thailand market/location. Now, both Google Earth and Voice will install and work on my phone as I have done such by side-loading them. And that different SIM example you gave which apparently showed a different selection of App availability, I guess service provider restrictions (if any but I expect exist) is also one of those attributes looked at by Google Play and/or the Apps Uses-Feature encoding. Yeap, Google and App developers have their methods to control/limit distribution to a degree in order to protect themselves legally, protect against pirating, make money, and just to piss me off, etc.

Pib

[nikster]

FWIW here's an interesting link comparing the ecosystems of Google vs Apple vs Amazon:

Results may surprise you

http://www.macstories.net/stories/mapping-the-entertainment-ecosystems-of-apple-microsoft-google-amazon/

[Pib]

FWIW here's an interesting link comparing the ecosystems of Google vs Apple vs Amazon:

Results may surprise you

http://www.macstorie...-google-amazon/

The maps in the article really do a good job of making the point about geo-location limitations, has a entainment content provider like Apple, Google, etc. cleared all the legal requirements to operate in country XYZ or hasn't pissed off country XYZ. However, but, a VPN connection with a U.S. IP address will usually overcome most of these limitations like for music, books, magazines, movies, etc. But it's obvious many will not have a VPN account allowing them to logon using a different country's IP address.

For example, when I logon to Google Play with my Thailand IP address (a normal internet connection) here is categories Google Play offers me which is Apps only.

But when I logon via my StrongVPN account which gives me U.S. IP address, here is the categories Google Play offers me, which is Music, Books, Magazines, Movies & TV, and Apps.