zzap Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 To clarify the "90 days" tourist visa you insist you received: there is no such thing. 90 days is the period after you receive your tourist visa within which you have to enter Thailand, after this it becomes invalid and you'd have to apply for a new one. Tourist visas grant you permission to stay in thailand for 60 days from the date of entry, subject to the stamp you'll receive. On a sidenote, I advise to always check the entry stamp, mistakes can happen, and it's best to correct it there and then if this happens (unlikely, but possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkangorito Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 To clarify the "90 days" tourist visa you insist you received: there is no such thing. 90 days is the period after you receive your tourist visa within which you have to enter Thailand, after this it becomes invalid and you'd have to apply for a new one. Tourist visas grant you permission to stay in thailand for 60 days from the date of entry, subject to the stamp you'll receive. On a sidenote, I advise to always check the entry stamp, mistakes can happen, and it's best to correct it there and then if this happens (unlikely, but possible). Thanks for telling me, AFTER THE FACT!!!!! I have never come across this before, even though having lived in 2 other countries in this world. Thank you for reminding me that I must have my ESP working perfectly before leaving the shores of Australia. Ps Why would a country issue a 90 day visa only to have it turned into a 60 day visa...again, upon none of which I was advised. OOps!! Sorry. Forgot...I should automatically know this info somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzap Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 I was only trying to be helpful, explaining the 'discrepancies' you didn't understand. Let me try again: Your visa is issued to you on a certain day (often the date you apply for it if you go to the embassy in person). This date is stamped onto your visa in your passport, following these words: "This visa must be utilised before..." When you enter Thailand, nothing is changed, but you will get another stamp, which states the date of your arrival, followed by the words: "admitted until..." with another date stamp, which indicates the date you will have to leave Thailand. Now please don't get angry with me again, because I only told you now, after the event, I apologise that I wasn't there at the time to hold your hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 No ESP required. 4. VALIDITY OF A VISA The validity of a visa is three months. 5. VALIDITY OF A STAY Upon arrival, visitors with this type of visa will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand for a period not exceeding 60 days at any time. The above quote for Tourist visas to Thailand and is on the visa page of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opothai Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 (edited) consistency is the name of the game, but TIT i've overstayed on plenty of occasions and been very lucky it seems, only had to pay at the air port. ... thailand needs consistency In other words, Opothai, you are lamenting the fact that when you presented yourself with an overstay at Immigration upon leaving Thailand you were not arrested, detained and deported, since deportation is the only penalty for this offence provided by the Immigration Act. Masochist! There is consistency! 1. Those who get caught by the police with an overstay fall into two categories: a. those who reach an amicable agreement with the police in order not to be arrested; b. the others who get arrested, brought before a judge, and deported. 2. Those who succeed in not getting caught by the police are fined upon leaving the country, apparently based on a directive of the Director General of the Police (DGP) (there was another post mentioning such directive). Such directive can be cancelled or changed at any time by just one person, the DGP. Consistency is if everybody in the same situation is treated the same way. Or do you say that it is inconsistent that some motorists running a red light get caught and others do not get caught? Think again! How many policemen would you need to catch every motorist committing a traffic offence everywhere in the country? How many policemen to catch every overstaying foreigner? Would you like it if every policeman who sees you asked you to show your passport? In Bangkok, that would be about every 200 metres on average. -------------- Maestro maestro you did not read or quote all my post, i think you'll find that i wanted to push the fact about being informed about the consequences. and i did mention that because of the information i have gleaned from thai visa that i would never overstay again. were these chaps that well informed??? and for a day or 2 well !!! and the last of your post is just so unrealistic 555555 why did you post it. my full post below consistency is the name of the game, but TIT always asume the worse case scenario as it CAN happen. i've overstayed on plenty of occasions and been very lucky it seems, only had to pay at the air port. i've been a member here for a while now and never again will i overstay, simply because of what i read here. good on thai visa. if i were not a member i should hazzard a guess that an overstay would not bother me. the question is how well informed were these chaps and had they just paid at the airport before. and for the amount of time they overstayed i think for a country that does have a large number of tourists imo the authorities definately over reacted and this can only damage the industry,[ not by much ] but added to all the other hickups that seem to occur, well add them together and it does not paint a great picture at this present time. personally on the information provided i feel for these chaps in the manner of thier treatment. thailand needs consistency Edited February 20, 2006 by opothai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzap Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 Yes, immigration and police need to co-ordinate. No good having different rules about the same thing. But don't hold your breath for this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maestro Posted February 20, 2006 Share Posted February 20, 2006 you did not read or quote all my post...You make it sound like a crime that I did not quote your post in full, whereas I consider it bad manners to clutter a thread in such fashion.The opening and closing lines of your post decried the alleged lack of consistency in Thailand. Your text in between those two line were an attempt to portray the arrest, detention and deportation of 12 tourists for overstay (the topic of this thread) on the one hand and your merely being fined upon departure on the other hand as an example of this alleged discrepancy. What I did was point out that there is in fact consistency, and that the elimination of what you erroneously perceived to be an inconsistency would be impossible. End of the story. -------------- Maestro Yes, immigration and police need to co-ordinate. No good having different rules about the same thing. To me, it makes eminent sense that an overstaying visitor who has already checked in for his flight out of Thailand should not be arrested, brought before a judge and deported, as would be necessary according to the law. Why object to that different rule about merely imposing a fine in such circumstance?Let’s be grateful for small mercies! -------------- Maestro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateSix Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 It looks like the blood lusting control freaks are a majority (sadly). It's a sad statement for humanity.Nonetheless, I'll try to be a "perfect" human & therefore join the ranks of the control freaks...NOT!!!!! You people are narrow minded, unforgiving & generally intolerant. I expect racist remarks very soon from some of you. Thank god I'm not one of your kids. You lazy beggars are just unbelievable. Personal responsibility is something one gains from NOT following the law but from constantly questioning the reality of an issue. Since all of you "good doers" rely upon the law to make your decisions for you, you therefore have NO personal responsibility. It's so easy to quote laws. It's so easy to be a perfect citizen if you CAN follow the law. I do not know one human yet who has been so perfect as to have not coc*ed up with regard to the law. By the way, none of you will convince me that you are "clean". On your deathbed, if it can be proven, if you have a totally "clean" slate, I'll kiss my bum to the moon & back if you haven't broken a "LAW". But don't forget, this only applies after you die. There is no such thing as a "perfectly law abiding" living human. Change the record mate. All you have done throughout this thread is call people 'red necks' or 'control freaks' if they dared to disagree with your view, which seems to be that laws should not be obeyed, but left to individuals to interpret as they see fit, and that if you follow laws you are some sort of mindless robot. Whilst I agree with you that some laws are daft and should be challenged, the issue here, in my opinion, is not the law itself, which is reasonable, but the penalties applied to the 12, and the general inconsistency surrounding it. Of course no-one in here is 'clean' as you describe it. Everyone has broken some law in their time. So what. What is your point? That they would complain if they were caught and punished for it? Most people would grumble, of course. That is human nature. I think you are out of order coming on here and accusing the majority of us of being 'blood lusting control freaks'. And why would you be expecting racist remarks soon?? Are you accusing posters on here of being racist now also? Your point of view is interesting and adds something different to the thread, or it would if you were more constructive in your arguments and stopped calling people names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Valentine Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 ..... which seems to be that laws should not be obeyed, but left to individuals to interpret as they see fit ...... Well, yes, but this board is full with stories and reports about people who interpret laws as they see fit. And I mean thai police and immigration officers. Fact is that (almost) nobody follows "the law" here in Thailand, at least no Thai. Look at the traffic, or gambling, or .... you name it, the Thais break it. So how does one assume that just we farangs are supposed to follow the law to the full extent? Sunny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
opothai Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 What I did was point out that there is in fact consistency, and that the elimination of what you erroneously perceived to be an inconsistency would be impossible.End of the story. nice one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StateSix Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 ..... which seems to be that laws should not be obeyed, but left to individuals to interpret as they see fit ...... Well, yes, but this board is full with stories and reports about people who interpret laws as they see fit. And I mean thai police and immigration officers. Fact is that (almost) nobody follows "the law" here in Thailand, at least no Thai. Look at the traffic, or gambling, or .... you name it, the Thais break it. So how does one assume that just we farangs are supposed to follow the law to the full extent? Sunny I agree with you on that point. The main issue here is not the law itself, it is the general inconsistency surrounding the application of it. I believe people here generally do not follow laws because the police etc do not generally enforce it to any great extent, and when it is enforced it is relatively easy to pay your way out of trouble. The question is which is better - a police service which applies the law consistently, whilst still using some common sense, but is not bribeable, or one which is inconsistent, but bribeable. I imagine the answer comes down to which side you are on - suspect or victim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzap Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Overstaying my visa for a day, or taking a right turn on a road where I shouldn't, I consider myself neither a 'suspect' nor a 'victim', thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 (edited) Well, yes, but this board is full with stories and reports about people who interpret laws as they see fit. And I mean thai police and immigration officers.Fact is that (almost) nobody follows "the law" here in Thailand, at least no Thai. Look at the traffic, or gambling, or .... you name it, the Thais break it. So how does one assume that just we farangs are supposed to follow the law to the full extent? Sunny Well, in this case the law is remarkably clear, I don't think there is ANY confusion that if you are not at the airport and are overstaying, it is within the discretion and authority of a policeman/immigration officer to detain you. Is your problem with their use of discretion or about advice given? Re discretion, I've got out of speeding tickets in some cases in other countries, and paid some of the time.... are you going to say this is about law intepretation as well? If it is regarding the information given for a potential overstayer, well I agree that clearly some education is needed to encourage all officers of the law to always advise anyone that overstaying may result in jail time and therefore they should never overstay if possible. I don't like your racist insinuation that all Thais are law breakers, there are plenty that are not. I would however will go so far as to slightly agree with you and add a more moderate version, that many people in most countries are law breakers - speeding, drinking underage, etc. It is all a matter of scale and magnitude of the consequences. 'So how does one assume that just we farangs are supposed to follow the law to the full extent?' OK, well maybe it is hard to tell what you can get away with (prostitution, drugs, gambling, drunk driving, etc) knowing that it is illegal but it is unlikely to suffer consequence...well fair enough. But what is so <deleted> hard about not overstaying though? The stamp is right there!!! How stupid are these farangs you speak of that they cannot follow this??? [that is a rhetorical question, of course they are not stupid] I refuse to believe it is a matter of people being stupid, it is actually a matter a laziness vs. consequence, they thought nothing would happen to them, and they got their risk management wrong. So...to answer your question, farangs can choose to follow (or not) the law, and if not you run the risk of getting caught. Pretty easy I would have thought!!! Like I used to leave my wallet in my car, and one day someone stole it. I took a risk and paid the price. Difference is I haven't spent any time (until now) whining about it because it is my own fault. I'll take some cheese with my whine thanks. Edited February 21, 2006 by steveromagnino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 How stupid are these farangs you speak of that they cannot follow this??? [that is a rhetorical question, of course they are not stupid] I refuse to believe it is a matter of people being stupid, it is actually a matter a laziness vs. consequence, they thought nothing would happen to them, and they got their risk management wrong. So...to answer your question, farangs can choose to follow (or not) the law, and if not you run the risk of getting caught. Pretty easy I would have thought!!! steveromagnino, Isn't it boring to include "stupid farangs" in almost each and every thread you reply to? A bit repetitive, isn't it? Like I used to leave my wallet in my car, and one day someone stole it. I took a risk and paid the price. Difference is I haven't spent any time (until now) whining about it because it is my own fault. Right, you weren't stupid. Just lazy. It was awfully smart to take that risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 steveromagnino, Isn't it boring to include "stupid farangs" in almost each and every thread you reply to? A bit repetitive, isn't it? Like I used to leave my wallet in my car, and one day someone stole it. I took a risk and paid the price. Difference is I haven't spent any time (until now) whining about it because it is my own fault. Right, you weren't stupid. Just lazy. It was awfully smart to take that risk. EXACTLY!!! Finally someone gets what I am saying... people are not stupid and can read the DATE in their passport! Then they choose whether to risk it or not! If they be well lazy (like me leaving my wallet in the car) then they run the risk of getting caught! If they be well smart, they probably won't risk it! I was stupid and paid der price! simple! Therefore...conclusion? Overstay at your own risk. p.s. please reference these other threads where I claim farangs are stupid, I could do with a jogging of der old memoree because sadly I cannot recall using that phrase before 'cept in this case where OBVIOUSLY to anyone with more than a few brain cells it is a direct reference to the previous poster's comment (Sunny) that ' how can we farangs be expected to follow this'... If you want I'll add subtitles in Korean to help you follow along Man, anyone would be thinkin' I be slagging off me dad with dese comment innit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzap Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 Finally someone gets what I am saying... people are not stupid and can read the DATE in their passport!Then they choose whether to risk it or not! If they be well lazy (like me leaving my wallet in the car) then they run the risk of getting caught! If they be well smart, they probably won't risk it! I was stupid and paid der price! simple! Yaahhhwn.For the umtiest time: What about an immigration officer advising you to go and pay at the border for an overstay when you leave? Still lazy and taking a risk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted February 21, 2006 Share Posted February 21, 2006 If it is regarding the information given for a potential overstayer, well I agree that clearly some education is needed to encourage all officers of the law to always advise anyone that overstaying may result in jail time and therefore they should never overstay if possible. Zzap I would have thought this is clear enough. However, like the police officer who lets the pretty drunk girl go on her way to drive home, and then she crashes and hurts someone, well let's just say that some officials are officially idiots. I don't believe anything the Tax Dept in the country I grew up in say, and sadly, one cannot always believe officals here. However, given that the date is in the passport, I would have thought it is pretty clear at what point a person starts to overstay, and if they are given bum advice, well that is pretty bad luck; however people get bum advice on tax and other matters too, and this occurs in far more countries than just Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tracer0 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Yes This over stay thing is getting very tight. Let me tell you a story. I went to C M immigration August 2005 for my 7th annual year Visa. All the usual, money in Bank, marry papers all like clock work now. I had to return 4 weeks later for a stamp, no visa from Bkk. I then Return 4 more weeks later, still no year visa from Bkk. Finnally, I got the year visa 4 months after the original application. But heres the pisser!!!!!!! As I had gone every 4 weeks, I didnt think to do the 90 day show your self stuff. So When I finnaly did, I was 110 days over stay! potentially, prision, at least 25K baht fine. But I showed my passport to the boss, and it clearely showed I had indeed gone every 4 weeks. I was lucky, They liked my face, they fined me 1000baht. So dont over stay for any reason,even a genuine mistake can prove costly. I thought I read on these posts last year they were going to stop the Visa runs? Best regards Pip Ok, I just had my year renewal and my 3 months showing my face trip to emigration should have been made in immigration. They were already preparing the extension and while that was ongoing I was asked by my accountant to come with me to immigration. We had a nice chat, nothing about visa or so and it could have been my missed 3 months trip, I wasnt told and I never asked... Ok, Accountant asked in february for my old passport and I got new/old one back WITH year visum and a modified sho0w your face 3 months note (new stamp on back that I should show myself now in MAY. NO fees, penalties due. Bow this whole mess and others is still being confused by people not realising that regulations arent the law and that essentially immigration can do more or less what they want as therwise you can as farang always get the boot... I saw the latest Phuket Gazette which showed the australian and his story. Considering the smile on his face I have a distinct impression that he has more muscles then brains. Also it wouldnt surprise me if some of those guys were working somewhere. Note I wouldnt KNOW that but considering how many fake tourists and retired working farangs we have here... Seems very likely that if any of those guys will apply ever for an extension they will be checked carefully... Whatever, what the situation is for these 3 months show your face trips to immigration, ie do you have to do it while extension of stay for a year is under way, I havent got a clue so anyone finding out, please post... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 p.s. please reference these other threads where I claim farangs are stupid, I could do with a jogging of der old memoree because sadly I cannot recall using that phrase before 'cept in this case where OBVIOUSLY to anyone with more than a few brain cells it is a direct reference to the previous poster's comment (Sunny) that ' how can we farangs be expected to follow this'... For some reason or another the "View member's posts" option was removed from the forum interface a few weeks ago, otherwise I'd prepare a nice collection for you to study at your spare time With so many people complaining about Thailand, it is just natural to have someone like yourself at the other extreme, labeling all critisicm, even valid one, as "whining", and those that express it as "stupid". Note that I do not refer to this particular thread but rather to quite a clear pattern I see in your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Whatever, what the situation is for these 3 months show your face trips to immigration, ie do you have to do it while extension of stay for a year is under way, I havent got a clue so anyone finding out, please post... The 90 day reporting requirement is a system totally separate from visa extensions and so forth. The regulations require that you officially report to ask permission to stay in the Kingdom for more than 90 consecutive days. The way you comply is to report to your Immigration office and submit a completed TM 47 form. The very fact that you are actually there talking to Immigration Officers does not count as reporting: you must submit the TM 47 form along with your passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axel Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 For some reason or another the "View member's posts" option was removed from the forum interface a few weeks ago, otherwise I'd prepare a nice collection for you to study at your spare time ..... Actually, it's there. Click on the member's name, click on Profile Options and you got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) For some reason or another the "View member's posts" option was removed from the forum interface a few weeks ago, otherwise I'd prepare a nice collection for you to study at your spare time The option to view members' posts is still available. Click on the member's name, then click on the button on the right entitled: Profile Options. A drop down menu then appears. Edit: Oops! Axel beat me to it. Edited February 22, 2006 by Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Whatever, what the situation is for these 3 months show your face trips to immigration, ie do you have to do it while extension of stay for a year is under way, I havent got a clue so anyone finding out, please post... The 90 day reporting requirement is a system totally separate from visa extensions and so forth. The regulations require that you officially report to ask permission to stay in the Kingdom for more than 90 consecutive days. The way you comply is to report to your Immigration office and submit a completed TM 47 form. The very fact that you are actually there talking to Immigration Officers does not count as reporting: you must submit the TM 47 form along with your passport. No longer true. Your first extension of stay is officialy considered your first 90 day address report. Below from immigration web site: The foreigner makes the notification in person, orThe foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail. The notification must be made within 7 days before or after the period of 90 days expires. The first application for extension of stay by the foreigner is equivalent to the notification of staying in the Kingdom over 90 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 For some reason or another the "View member's posts" option was removed from the forum interface a few weeks ago, otherwise I'd prepare a nice collection for you to study at your spare time ..... Actually, it's there. Click on the member's name, click on Profile Options and you got it. Oops, missed it Thanks, Axel. References coming soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) p.s. please reference these other threads where I claim farangs are stupid, I could do with a jogging of der old memoree because sadly I cannot recall using that phrase before 'cept in this case... http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=61024&hl= you have an extremely limited view of the world and of Thailand.......The question is, how many of the people on this board do anything other than sit around whining? http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=55528&hl= Again I am amazed at how uninformed people are so confident to give comments as if they know it all. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59821&hl= And ironically a TON of the foreigners I have to deal with here, complain continuously about the lack of innovation and ideas here http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=59386&hl= For the most part, the expats i have met and worked with fall into two groups:- the absolutely terrible idiots (most of them) - easily identified with ongoing complaints and gossip about virtually every aspect of their staff's work, usually cannot speak or read Thai well or at all and frequently are unable to control their temper which makes the staff fear them, but certainly not respect them.. ... - the great managers... Well, I think you can get my point. Don't take it the wrong way, I love your posts, but you might be overdoing the "stupid farangs" pitch just a bit Edited February 22, 2006 by ~G~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveromagnino Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Well, these are more accusations thrown around willy nilly at foreigners rather than singling out foreigners who are farangs.... However, there is indeed a bit of a pattern there, and I think it is fair comment to say I should tone it down a bit.... Fair call mate However, in my slight defence of this particular thread, I just think that the vast number of foreigners are not overstaying, and of the few that are going to, most are smart people who can figure out how to either extend at the Dtor Mor or know the risk vs. return of overstaying. I'll leave it at that, I just got offered a new job so I am in a remarkably good mood, and feel little need to belittle anyone today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~G~ Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 I'll leave it at that, I just got offered a new job so I am in a remarkably good mood, and feel little need to belittle anyone today Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 According to section 37 of the Immigration act it would appear that every time you move to another province you have to report your place of stay to the local police. I am sure that this is not done very often by tourists or anyone else.What is the opinion of other TVmembers? There is also a law still on the statute books (Thailand never repeals old laws, apparently) which states that foreigners must register at the amphur office of every province through which they pass, even if they are only in transit to somewhere else. Wonder how long it will be before some TRT honky-hater decides that this law should be dusted off and rigidly applied. Retroactively, of course. Perhaps those on this forum who smugly state that "the law is the law" and "ignorance is no excuse" would care to enlighten us as to whether or not they always comply with this piece of legislation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 Your stay is being reported to the police by the hotel. If they are doing there job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumpole Posted February 22, 2006 Share Posted February 22, 2006 (edited) Your stay is being reported to the police by the hotel. If they are doing there job. And if you are simply passing through that province, on your way to somewhere else, without staying in a hotel ...? Edited February 22, 2006 by Rumpole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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