Foreigners, Their Reputation And Teaching In Thailand....

[chonabot]

I wouldn't want to make too much of a generalisation but most of these teachers end up teaching English to classes of 60 students, 1 hour a week per class, minimal preparation, personally that would drive me insane.

It's also how most teachers, myself included, start their career in Thailand

ps minus the preparation - I spend a lot of time on my Lesson plans and tweak them for each class of 600..er 60 I mean

Edited December 28, 2012 by chonabot

[Scott]

A nasty, off-topic post and reply have been deleted.

[NoshowJones]

Oh my Buddha, forgot to mention Mr. TTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!

Mr. T worked at a primary school, but not really. Before he could even realize,where all the buildings were, he got fired. Wasn't a big loss.

He'd paid three months for his apartment in advance. So he wanted to have the money back, when he got fired. The Thai guy explained why he wouldn't give him the cash back, as he'd to look for a new customer.

Mr. T. took the phone and called the tourist cops in U.R. Sgt. Major Nat showed up, asking him: "Can I help you ,Sir?"

Mr. T.:"Yes, this Thai man wants to rip me off." The cop: "May I see your passport, please, Sir?"

The cop's face got longer, Mr. T's speech shorter. He got arrested, because he was on a two year overstay. Nobody in the land far away where he came from wanted to have anything to do with him.

He got deported, just to come back a few months afterwards. Just recently saw him again walking through the city like a duck. And they reproduce....-- .

How did he manage to work in a school with a two year overstay? You always need to show your passport before you start work, one reason being you need to have a B visa to get a work permit. Is their still a lot of teachers working without a WP today the way they used to?

[NoshowJones]

I live myself in Isaan (Chaiyaphum), and I think actually that what you describe is not all over the place. I have experience first hand from many schools which I visits regularly with a teacher friend of mine, and we meet respect and warmth all over the place. I myself am just retired and have never been a teacher but can from time to time do some tutoring (free of cost).

But I like to say again, around here and all these thai-teachers and headmasters I have meet, not a single one of them during my 5 years here has ever treated me badly.

I think that of course that there is asshol_e teachers and/or foreigners ruin the reputation for some of you guys....But give the thai´s some credit please, they can see that there is good and bad falangs.....and if YOU act OK you will be treated OK....

All these drunken teachers mostly from the english-speaking hemisphere are rotten, but there is a huge lot of very good teachers as well from the very same area.

glegolo

I agree, in 3 years of teaching, every school director, and head of the English department have been about the nicest I have ever met. Pure gems, every one of them.

[NoshowJones]

Since I have lived and worked here I have met 3 full qualified teachers, with everything the TCT require. No disrespect to them but they were the most miserable people I have met in the job. They plan well, they do their lesson plans on time but when the lesson plan does not go the way they want they are lost. I myself love to teach but because of the system I am not able to do so. I am now just tutoring on the side instead of working full-time in a government ran hell full of anger and envy at farang in general.

You could teach at a government school, even without a BA. Just find a school that changes the job title into "trainer", or "teacher assistant".

Thailand is like a fence,with always one gate wide .open. People with experience and the right cultural background like living and teaching here for several years, should be exceptions.

i don't see how a BA in chemistry can make somebody to an English teacher........

How very true.

[sirchai]

Oh my Buddha, forgot to mention Mr. TTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!

Mr. T worked at a primary school, but not really. Before he could even realize,where all the buildings were, he got fired. Wasn't a big loss.

He'd paid three months for his apartment in advance. So he wanted to have the money back, when he got fired. The Thai guy explained why he wouldn't give him the cash back, as he'd to look for a new customer.

Mr. T. took the phone and called the tourist cops in U.R. Sgt. Major Nat showed up, asking him: "Can I help you ,Sir?"

Mr. T.:"Yes, this Thai man wants to rip me off." The cop: "May I see your passport, please, Sir?"

The cop's face got longer, Mr. T's speech shorter. He got arrested, because he was on a two year overstay. Nobody in the land far away where he came from wanted to have anything to do with him.

He got deported, just to come back a few months afterwards. Just recently saw him again walking through the city like a duck. And they reproduce....-- .

How did he manage to work in a school with a two year overstay? You always need to show your passport before you start work, one reason being you need to have a B visa to get a work permit. Is their still a lot of teachers working without a WP today the way they used to?

Nobody wanted to see his passport. He had been there for about 4 weeks only. He's back on a new passport, looking for a job.

Even came for an interview to the same school, where he got fired, then arrested and deported by cops in this city.-

[Rhys]

Sorry, Iodine deficiency just cannot be reverse in students and the F-teacher trying to enlighten the dear students... Face it some students are never going to learn...the language..

[NoshowJones]

Oh my Buddha, forgot to mention Mr. TTTTTTTTTTTTT !!!

Mr. T worked at a primary school, but not really. Before he could even realize,where all the buildings were, he got fired. Wasn't a big loss.

He'd paid three months for his apartment in advance. So he wanted to have the money back, when he got fired. The Thai guy explained why he wouldn't give him the cash back, as he'd to look for a new customer.

Mr. T. took the phone and called the tourist cops in U.R. Sgt. Major Nat showed up, asking him: "Can I help you ,Sir?"

Mr. T.:"Yes, this Thai man wants to rip me off." The cop: "May I see your passport, please, Sir?"

The cop's face got longer, Mr. T's speech shorter. He got arrested, because he was on a two year overstay. Nobody in the land far away where he came from wanted to have anything to do with him.

He got deported, just to come back a few months afterwards. Just recently saw him again walking through the city like a duck. And they reproduce....-- .

How did he manage to work in a school with a two year overstay? You always need to show your passport before you start work, one reason being you need to have a B visa to get a work permit. Is their still a lot of teachers working without a WP today the way they used to?

Nobody wanted to see his passport. He had been there for about 4 weeks only. He's back on a new passport, looking for a job.

Even came for an interview to the same school, where he got fired, then arrested and deported by cops in this city.-

Yeah, you sure do meet them.

[WonnabeBiker]

Well, not every teacher drinks or smokes (whatever). For balance, I would like to add a few tales about Thais and their schools.

• Weeks into the new semester, the Head of English asks to prepare a curriculum.
  
• 10 page lesson plans? Yep, this is not a myth (either teach or spend all your time preparing those. What will be your choice?)
  
• More than 7 weeks on the job, the promised contract hasn't materialized. Nor will it - is that the Thai way of showing someone the door?
  
• Embezzlement of salary and blatantly willful disregard for Thai labour laws? You bet!
  

Some schools hire adventurers with a terrible thick accent and difficulties pronouncing words. But they are young and happy to work on a T Visa...

A director at a government school telling fairy tales to justify a charge for the foreign teachers which is many times their actual salaries plus overhead (taxes, Visa runs as this school doesn't do WPs).

***

• Some very rich & successful Thai who isn't senile provides an invalid address of his own home in Thai. (Some electronics were sold to him and then mailed via EMS, with the address being copied in Thai by a Thai). As the address looked suspiciously short, e-mails were exchanged to verify it. Just saying.
  
• A simple and truthful "I don't know / I don't understand" would be great. But be prepared to be lied to instead!
  

Then there is the myth of the Thai MoL and Labour Departments helping foreign teachers. Well, the trouble begins when you try to find someone who is willing to speak English. Even when I reached the boss, the guy would laugh horribly and hang up without bothering to transfer the call! The same happened at the switch board of the court in a region outside Bangkok.

Communication? What communication!

So you show up for work on a public holiday (Monday) to be told "we teach the Friday schedule".

• XXXX You sweatshirt? Are yoring you nuts to bring it to the admin office?!? The student will get it back immediately.
  
• I saw a female teacher getting a 10 minutes long back and neck massage from male students - that's perfectly okay. But a "high 5" with the opposite sex is a casus belli.
  

As long as schools hire folks without any qualifications or ability (to speak semi-proper English) and maintain a system where even the Immigration Police won't touch "teachers" on T-Visas and get away with financial irregularities and even crimes, both sides have to clean up their act.

Most teachers are good guys. Hard working, well motivated folks who care for their students and try hard to teach them well.

Wishing you all a better & happier New Year!

[Scott]

An off-topic post with an inappropriate link has been deleted, as well as the reply.

This is the teaching sub-forum.

[sirchai]

An off-topic post with an inappropriate link has been deleted, as well as the reply.

This is the teaching sub-forum.

And a New Year.....

[Jawnie]

I do corporate teaching which is teaching staff and managers in corporate and company offices around Bangkok. I rarely interact with other teachers, or my boss for that matter. I am also a "tefler'. I worked many years in professional environments in the US but was 'aged out' when the financial roof fell in in 2008. Fortunately, I had already been planning to leave the US to teach English and, as as part of it, I got a got a tefl certificate. It is obvious to me, though, that my past work experience more than makes up for the fact that I wasn't an English or Teaching major.

I am well aware of the reputation of foreigners and English teachers...it comes with the territory, I guess. I never deal with underage students so it's never an issue for the clients nor does my employer need to watch out for any 'hanky-panky' in my case. Frankly, I don't even attempt to date the students - there are so many other places to find dating material, why complicate and compromise your job and reputation? One of the biggest lessons I've learned teaching in Thailand is that of "curbing my inner dog' and staying focused on grammar and pronunciation....haha.

[chonabot]

*Troll post deleted*

There's a free lesson for you

.

On a more serious note - In a typical Government school there are 50-60 students per class.

The Foreign English teacher has 50 minutes per week in which to teach these students.

Last Semester I had many lessons wiped out due to the extra activities my school loves so much.

So in a good week the students get one minute each in which to practice conversational English.

The Thai English teachers have 150 minutes per week, they teach grammar and fundamental English.

This system needs to change if the students are ever to be proficient in speaking English.

Edited January 1, 2013 by Scott

[sirchai]

*Troll post deleted*

There's a free lesson for you

.

On a more serious note - In a typical Government school there are 50-60 students per class.

The Foreign English teacher has 50 minutes per week in which to teach these students.

Last Semester I had many lessons wiped out due to the extra activities my school loves so much.

So in a good week the students get one minute each in which to practice conversational English.

The Thai English teachers have 150 minutes per week, they teach grammar and fundamental English.

This system needs to change if the students are ever to be proficient in speaking English.

I totally agree with you. Only those who have some "extra lessons" are a kind of okay. One of my Thai colleague teaching English just recently told me that when she comes home, nobody's using English.

It's a good excuse not to be able to speak a proper English, but I've met too many Thais teaching English who couldn't say one sentence properly.

Just to understand how difficult learning a second or third language can be, look at foreigners who live here for many years.

My Thai isn't very good, but I can get around. I've met so many who lived here for many years, but their Thai wasn't existent.

The Thai teachers are teaching English grammar, using Thai to explain it. Once you've understood the system, (if there's one) then you'll have to go with the flow.

Most Thai schools hire Filipinos, not even knowing how bad some of their English is, because their English is even worse. Etc.....

[aridion]

I could tell you stories that would curl your hair.

Go on, spill the beans.

[aridion]

*Troll post deleted*

There's a free lesson for you

.

On a more serious note - In a typical Government school there are 50-60 students per class.

The Foreign English teacher has 50 minutes per week in which to teach these students.

Last Semester I had many lessons wiped out due to the extra activities my school loves so much.

So in a good week the students get one minute each in which to practice conversational English.

The Thai English teachers have 150 minutes per week, they teach grammar and fundamental English.

This system needs to change if the students are ever to be proficient in speaking English.

I totally agree with you. Only those who have some "extra lessons" are a kind of okay. One of my Thai colleague teaching English just recently told me that when she comes home, nobody's using English.

It's a good excuse not to be able to speak a proper English, but I've met too many Thais teaching English who couldn't say one sentence properly.

Just to understand how difficult learning a second or third language can be, look at foreigners who live here for many years.

My Thai isn't very good, but I can get around. I've met so many who lived here for many years, but their Thai wasn't existent.

The Thai teachers are teaching English grammar, using Thai to explain it. Once you've understood the system, (if there's one) then you'll have to go with the flow.

Most Thai schools hire Filipinos, not even knowing how bad some of their English is, because their English is even worse. Etc.....

I take it that you are not a native speaker, right?

[Scott]

I had worked in a large number of countries and had come back to Thailand on a holiday and was involved in an accident that left me temporarily unable to resume my normal overseas postings--most of these were in rather dangerous places at that time such as Iraq/Bosnia etc. I took a teaching job here and have been doing so ever since.

--I had the joy of briefly working with 'swirly face'.

--I worked with a guy who put a hammock on the roof of the school and used to smoke pot.

--I worked with a guy who used to head to the little restaurant during the afternoon break and have two 'quick beers.'

--I worked with a lady who peed in the bushes outside at the school--for quite a few people to see.

--I worked with a native speaker who couldn't read (couldn't read a memo) and couldn't pronounce the 'th' sound.

--I worked with some strange acting behavior (later found out they were meth addicts).

--And the alcohol related instances are too numerous to mention--although one teacher informed me that if you are drunk and fall out of the back of the Songtaew, they don't charge you!

Most of these people got the book relatively quickly, but years ago the pool of applicants was really quite bad. In the past about 10 years, I run into very few of these types, thank goodness.

By the way, the parents were largely unaware of many of the transgressions of the foreign teachers. Even the Thai Admin was not aware of some of the stuff.

[chonabot]

*Troll post deleted*

There's a free lesson for you

.

On a more serious note - In a typical Government school there are 50-60 students per class.

The Foreign English teacher has 50 minutes per week in which to teach these students.

Last Semester I had many lessons wiped out due to the extra activities my school loves so much.

So in a good week the students get one minute each in which to practice conversational English.

The Thai English teachers have 150 minutes per week, they teach grammar and fundamental English.

This system needs to change if the students are ever to be proficient in speaking English.

I totally agree with you. Only those who have some "extra lessons" are a kind of okay. One of my Thai colleague teaching English just recently told me that when she comes home, nobody's using English.

It's a good excuse not to be able to speak a proper English, but I've met too many Thais teaching English who couldn't say one sentence properly.

Just to understand how difficult learning a second or third language can be, look at foreigners who live here for many years.

My Thai isn't very good, but I can get around. I've met so many who lived here for many years, but their Thai wasn't existent.

The Thai teachers are teaching English grammar, using Thai to explain it. Once you've understood the system, (if there's one) then you'll have to go with the flow.

Most Thai schools hire Filipinos, not even knowing how bad some of their English is, because their English is even worse. Etc.....

I take it that you are not a native speaker, right?

To whom is this barb directed towards?

*sigh*

It would be nice,, just for once, to have a teaching thread devoid of troll / grammar nazi detritus.....

Edited January 2, 2013 by chonabot

[Scott]

Please stay on the topic and refrain from comments about grammar, spelling and writing styles. Many of our posters are not native speakers of English; others have poor internet connections, limited computer time and some even use those small telephones to post. One poster I know is a native speaker of Chinese. She does not teach English.

[joorakee]

Some schools hire adventurers with a terrible thick accent and difficulties pronouncing words. But they are young and happy to work on a T Visa...

A director at a government school telling fairy tales to justify a charge for the foreign teachers which is many times their actual salaries plus overhead (taxes, Visa runs as this school doesn't do WPs).

I wouldn't risk working in Thailand without a work permit & an appropriate visa (health insurance is also a must) and getting deported. Visa runs are good if you are on an extended holiday. I wonder how many farangs (not only teachers) dare to work illegally in the LOS and what percentage of them get caught.

[Yooyung]

There are quite a few Joorakee. I worked in Thailand for 9 years on a marriage visa but have come back to Aus for a while to get a degree. I want to go back and be fully legal, everything above board for myself and my families sake. The thing is that all the guys I knew there before are still there, no degree and teaching on marriage, tourist and educations visas. There must be a lot in the same position. I couldnt live like that anymore, but they just keep soldiering on......I wish them luck but dont think its going to get easier. A lot of them have loads of experience, just lack that piece of paper. They are pretty good guys mostly, not drunkards who go to work half baked or idiots that dont know how to conduct themselves.

Lets face it, most of us kind of fall into teaching over there. I happend to be one of those that gave it a shot and really quite enjoyed it. It takes more than a degree in...anything really to handle working and living over there for an extended period. Most people dont last more than a year or two. There have always been the bad apples that spoil it for the rest, they get the most attention and give everyone else bad press. You dont hear about the guy that gets up everday, is not hungover, is prepared for the day ahead like anyone in an office in the west, who goes to work and arrives on time, who is liked by collegues, liked by his students, someone that has accepted Thailand for all the good and bad that doesnt whine all day, a person that has a good grasp of the langauge and culture, an individual that finds teaching fun most of the time.....no that doesnt make the news.

Anyway, we aint all bad, us TEFLERS...I am really looking forward to getting back there and meeting up again with my TEFL mates and having a nice beer outside office hours, in a nice open air bar with a plate of nua daet diaw....Thats the thing about Thaialnd, for me, its a nice place(yes frustrating at times) to work and a great place to relax.

Cheers to all TEFLERS!

[Scott]

Over the years the quality of the teachers has improved. We can argue degree/Tefl etc., but years ago, there were a lot of people who had no degree, no TEFL and no experience. It was much easier to stay in Thailand at that time and the country was a lot cheaper.

For those who are not fully legal, it is getting harder. I feel very sorry for some because they are really too old to go back to school and get a degree and they have absolutely no future back in their home country and a bleak one here.

[Yooyung]

I know a few in that predicament Scott. One particular guy is a non native speaker, no degree and no TEFL, has been there for 12 years....not getting any younger either.

You are right though, it was easier 10 years ago. I am hoping that perhaps with all the ASEAN hooplah that the push for english will become even greater, and that things may even be forced into getting a little more organised. I am crossing my fingers that for those that have reasonable quals things may improve......I know, I know....its a long shot..

[bangkokburning]

My hunch is 90% of the losers mentioned do not have a university degree, if they do its from a marginal school and they were marginal students.

So you are in some backwater in Issan (quality you eh?) and you've run across some other losers at the end of the world....Im shocked!

[chonabot]

My hunch is 90% of the losers mentioned do not have a university degree, if they do its from a marginal school and they were marginal students.

So you are in some backwater in Issan (quality you eh?) and you've run across some other losers at the end of the world....Im shocked!

Some of us have decent degrees and choose to live in Isaan.

Different strokes for different folks.

Others choose to live in the South, some Bangkok and some in the North - I'm far too happy here to patronise their choice of abode

Edited January 2, 2013 by chonabot

[joorakee]

I feel very sorry for some because they are really too old to go back to school and get a degree and they have absolutely no future back in their home country and a bleak one here.

I wouldn't be so pessimistic about the future of farangs who decide/are forced to return to their home countries after having lived for many years in Thailand. One can always establish a small business back home that will enable him to visit Thailand as a tourist, which can mean spending here 2~3 or more months each year (or at least won't let him starve). Being "unemployable" (I assume you meant it) doesn't necessarily equal having no future.

One particular guy is a non native speaker, no degree and no TEFL, has been there for 12 years....not getting any younger either.

So he must have spent his childhood in an English-speaking country or something like that, as I suppose.

I've read an autobiographical book written by a Pole (my fellow countryman) who taught English at one of Bangkok's colleges and had done the TEFL course. I think his decision to do it was reasonable because he wasn't a native speaker (neither did he have a degree in English Studies or a similar field), but IMHO such courses aren't obligatory for educated NES (although might be advisable). Non-NES often have to cover up their shortcomings with additional qualifications, certificates etc., so that they can argue that, for example, even if their pronunciation leaves much to be desired, they are better (?) at teaching than native speakers without pedagogical preparation.

[Scott]

We are straying off the topic a bit, but I was talking about the people who settled in Thailand but never quite got established successfully. They do not work legally. They pay for an agent to get them the non-immigrant visa, but they can't get a work permit. Most are older and if they return to their home country, they will have no money to open a business--and they just don't have the business sense to run a business.

[bangkokburning]

Nor would they return Scott. Education was never a priority for them. They always scoffed at it, a stupid piece of paper....If they did return, it is obviously for - a piece of paper. I think it really says it all. Many of these guys would be selling time shares or working boiler rooms if they could.

Being drunk in public, in the daytime no less, driving - pretty poor form.

From what I see, three types of teachers:

People for whatever reason made TEFL a career. They have the papers and are as legit as any teacher in west.

This is coming from a guy who only has a BA mind you... The BA is the new high school diploma. Standards are so low in HS that in order to evidence you have an education, you need a BA. In fact, widely thought now BA such low standard that its really an MA.

Lots of smart people making big money - high school drop outs. Making money and obtaining an education are in general two separate things. Studying Business does not mean you are educated. You are just educated in business.

Persons with degrees that have found themselves here, are competent to teach conversational English based on NES and education and classroom experience. Would an AA cut it? IMO perhaps, then the bar is so low now, all sorts of flunkies have one.

Finally, the punters...guys that wash up here. In this case some pull it off and some are trainwrecks.

The stories about all the losers, crazies, drunks...these are not stories about educated people in the vast majority of situations. Guaranteed.

[MAJIC]

Pay peanuts get monkeys.

Correct! and picture the Thai Principal who phones a University in the UK to verify a Teachers Degree,does anyone think they would get past the switchboard? and get verification of a genuine degree?.... I have my doubts!

[Scott]

Bangkokburning, you may be correct in general, but there are plenty of educated people who have managed to make a mess of their life in Thailand.....and quite a few under-educated ones that have been quite successful in their teaching career. But like a sporting event, the barriers are getting higher and the older ones are finding it harder to stay in the race.