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Why Did The Pope Really Quit?

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That's a bit like saying that women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped and it's just as nonsensical. O'Brien is a hypocrite pure and simple.

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That's a bit like saying that women who wear short skirts deserve to be raped and it's just as nonsensical. O'Brien is a hypocrite pure and simple.

I totally agree with that. That man sent out a letter to every chapel in Scotland and instructed every priest to read it to the congregation, telling them to oppose gay marriage in Scotland.

Now it turns out he's a closet gay.

Despicable hypocrisy.

Reports are coming out ( forgive the pun ) of gay encounters in a sauna linked to the Vatican.

The sexual repression of the Catholic Church has much to answer for. In the last couple of days the Scottish Cardinal ( I can't be bothered remembering his name ) has called for priests to be allowed to marry.

I say de-mystify the Church, take down the pagan idols ( did they not read the story of the Ten Commandments? ), and reverse the Middle Age mistake of enforced celibacy. That includes allowing gay priests, as the Word Of The Lord and yhe Truth Of The Word is not restricted to hetrosexual single men sworn to celibacy. The whole idea is a reactionary farce, a reaction against the excesses of the Borgias Empire.

a critical over reaction I would say.....Jesus never preached celibacy to my knowledge, this is a mistake by a mortal man thst has to be corrected.

Preach The Word........not division and hatred.

so are you asking me to believe that the Catholic church is the Only church with hidden agendas, corrupt practices and inflated self worth? IMO faith does not need to be labeled as a matter a fact what is with labels that make certain groups feel secure and validated?

The issue here is the RC Pope and Church. It's rotten to.the core. They are now relying on the blind faith and loyalty of the congregation.

The Lord sent Peter forth to be a shepherd of men.....the RC Church has turned their congregation into sheep.

baa

Go study the true and acknowledged history of the RC Church.......you will be horrified and you will never put one bit of faith into the organization again.

By the way.......my Mum is a practising Roman Catholic. The majority of my close family are.

When O'Brien sent out that letter it caused a fierce row between my and my Mum. I could not believe how overtly political the letter was, an attack upon the democratically elected government of Scotland, that planned to legalize gay marriage.

My Mum defended O'Brien tooth and nail.

Tonight she was white with shock when it emerged that the Pope is in receipt of statements from three serving priests and one former priest about O'Briens abuse of power and gay trysts.

The RC Church can't keep doing this to it's loving and trusting congregation. It's deeply upsetting.

if the RC church support gay marrieage they are also supporting sodomy

sod·om·y
/ˈsädəmē/
Noun
Sexual intercourse involving anal or oral copulation.
Synonyms
paederasty

The RC church is an old huge political and religious institute that had a great influence in the development of the modern world. IMO for an issue as trivial as homosexuality to be the cause of it's demise is ridiculous.

The demise of the RC Church is a breach of faith between itself and it's congregation.

Suffer the little children.

Dante's special place in hell for the hypocrite.

I appreciate your posts, the blether, because they express the anger and frustration of someone who was a Catholic and felt badly let down (to put it mildly).

I am a Catholic, but a convert, not a cradle Catholic; what I converted to was the core beliefs of the Church, not its organisational structure. Like you, I loathe the hypocrisy which we see being revealed almost daily. I would correct one thing you say, though; the Church is not rotten TO the core; it's rotten AT the core. It's now up to the millions of decent Christians within the Catholic Church (including, IMO, the majority of priests) to bring back the true faith on which the Church is built. (Unbelievers need not comment here; we know what you think.)

But I have two major points to make. Firstly, I detest this tendency for people to come forward and say they were abused twenty, thirty, forty years ago. It's difficult to prove or disprove anything, and looks much like just jumping on the bandwagon. If true, it should have been done a long while ago.

Secondly, what is happening now is a witch hunt, or mob law. This is something none of us should condone.... and I certainly will not.

I can only pray that the renewal of the Church which looked like beginning with John XXIII will accelerate with the new Pope, whoever he may be.

A friendly reminder:

7) Not to post slurs or degrading comments directed towards any group on
the basis of race, nationality, religion, gender or sexual orientation.

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if the RC church support gay marrieage they are also supporting sodomy

sod·om·y
/ˈsädəmē/
Noun
Sexual intercourse involving anal or oral copulation.
Synonyms
paederasty

The RC church is an old huge political and religious institute that had a great influence in the development of the modern world. IMO for an issue as trivial as homosexuality to be the cause of it's demise is ridiculous.

I think you need to buy a new dictionary.

Sodomy is indeed sexual intercourse not involving vaginal penetration but that does not mean that it is confined to homosexuals. It's actually used by heterosexuals as a form of contraception in many countries.

Pederasty is a homosexual relationship usually (but not always) involving sex between an adult male and an adolescent male.

It's not homosexuality that's got Cardinal O'Brien into trouble it's hypocrisy. He's been vehemently opposed to both same-sex marriage and also to the previous civil partnership law whilst at the same time hiding the fact that he's allegedly sexually assaulted 4 men.

Ironically, it's Cardinal O'Brien who just last week proposed the abolition of clerical celibacy .

I think he needs to make his mind up what he believes.

Ironically, it's Cardinal O'Brien who just last week proposed the abolition of clerical celibacy .

Why is that ironic?

@Isanbirder......I'll accept that the Church is rotten AT the core as you put it, however it goes far beyond the core.

I am not Catholic however my maternal family are devout practising Catholics. I'm a product of a mixed marriage in the West of Scotland, and I was brought up in the Church of Scotland.

Setting that to the side, I cannot stand watching these almost daily assaults upon my family and every other decent Catholic, who are typically full of love and integrity.

I have an ex-IRA working for me, and my best pal who also works alongside me is a devout Catholic. The IRA man served 6 years in the Maze, I don't know why, I don't want to know why, part of being a Christian is believing in redemption. Judgement is not mine, in this life it's a matter for the courts, and they decided to release my ex-IRA friend and employee under the Good Friday agreement. In the next life judgement is a matter for the Lord and there ain't no way I'm going to second guess him.

This morning we discussed the situation with Cardinal O'Brien as mentioned earlier. The ex-IRA man said that in his opinion there were only three truly legendary Disciples.......let's not argue with him......let's have a look at what he said.

St Peter......The Shepherd of Men

Judas.........The Betrayer and

Thomas......Doubting Thomas

My pal said that it's now time for people to follow the lead of Thomas and cast doubt on all of the men who proclaim that they have the message, these men will have to earn a new found respect from the celebrants, and in time make the Universal Church stronger.

I think he's right. The betrayal of love and respect has to stop, and the new Pope must make it his mission to flush the narcisstic evil doers from his House.

Incidentally, O'Brien was told by the Holy Father that his retirement resignation has been brought forward, his resignation is now effective as of today, he is no longer welcome at the Conclave to elect the next Pope. The Catholic flock in the UK will have no say in the new election. How sad.

I am not Catholic however my maternal family are devout practising Catholics. I'm a product of a mixed marriage in the West of Scotland, and I was brought up in the Church of Scotland.

Setting that to the side, I cannot stand watching these almost daily assaults upon my family and every other decent Catholic, who are typically full of love and integrity.

Decent Catholic is a misnomer..... There are decent people who also happen to be Catholic.

Imagine Hamish McDonald, a Scotsman, sitting down with his Glasgow Morning Herald and seeing an article about how the "Brighton Sex Maniac Strikes Again". Hamish is shocked and declares that "No Scotsman would do such a thing". The next day he sits down to read his Glasgow Morning Herald again; and, this time, finds an article about an Aberdeen man whose brutal actions make the Brighton sex maniac seem almost gentlemanly. This fact shows that Hamish was wrong in his opinion but is he going to admit this? Not likely. This time he says, "No true Scotsman would do such a thing".[2]

When the statement "all A are B" is qualified like this to exclude those A which are not B, this is a form of begging the question; the conclusion is assumed by the definition of "true A".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

The word 'sad' has been used quite a lot recently about O'Brien. There was an article in today's Times and quite a few fellow churchmen said how 'sad' the situation is. If it is true that O'Brien is guilt of what he's been accused of I don't think it's sad - I think it's excellent that he's been found out.

It's sad for the people that trusted him endure. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for him.

It's sad for the people that trusted him endure.

That's true. It seems to me that the followers of religion are often much better people than their leaders.

"Incidentally, O'Brien was told by the Holy Father that his retirement resignation has been brought forward, his resignation is now effective as of today, he is no longer welcome at the Conclave to elect the next Pope. The Catholic flock in the UK will have no say in the new election. How sad."

(Quoted from theblether)

The official spin seems to be that the Cardinal has resigned, and that he has decided not to attend the conclave. Whichever is true (forced or voluntary), I think it's the right thing for him to do..... even though the allegations are so far unsubstantiated. (Whatever happened to 'innocent until proved guilty'? I think Cardinal Mahony of LA should follow,suit.

Yes, it is sad, endure. Good to clear out the rubbish, I agree, but sad to see such disorder in Christ's Church. People may be forgiven for doubting whether it really is Christ's Church, and this is perhaps the worst thing of all, the devastating effect of all these accusations on the great mass of ordinary Catholics worldwide.

But I reiterate, because I think it's so important, that many of the accusations against priests are dated so long ago that it will be almost impossible to verify them, and that I hate the atmosphere of a witch hunt which prevails.

even though the allegations are so far unsubstantiated

Reminds me of the resurrection.

"Incidentally, O'Brien was told by the Holy Father that his retirement resignation has been brought forward, his resignation is now effective as of today, he is no longer welcome at the Conclave to elect the next Pope. The Catholic flock in the UK will have no say in the new election. How sad."

(Quoted from theblether)

The official spin seems to be that the Cardinal has resigned, and that he has decided not to attend the conclave. Whichever is true (forced or voluntary), I think it's the right thing for him to do..... even though the allegations are so far unsubstantiated. (Whatever happened to 'innocent until proved guilty'? I think Cardinal Mahony of LA should follow,suit.

Yes, it is sad, endure. Good to clear out the rubbish, I agree, but sad to see such disorder in Christ's Church.

I don't mean to offend you but how can you claim that the Catholic Church is Christ's church? There are plenty of other branches of Christianity that could equally claim to be Christ's church none of which have committed the sins (and yes they are sins) that the Catholic Church has committed. We've talked about this before and you know that I'm not anti-religion but it seems to me that the institution of the Catholic Church (rather than the Catholics who are ordinary members of that church) is simply a power driven organisation with little regard for the beliefs of its founder who was Jesus Christ - not Leviticus or Revelations.

I think that some Christians are absolutely fabulous. Two branches in particular. The Society of Friends mainly because they have no hierarchy which I suspect that Jesus would approve of and the most militant Christians of all. I shouldn't really approve of these folks but I love them to death tongue.png

I don't mean to offend you but how can you claim that the Catholic Church is Christ's church? (Quote from endure) (Sorry, but somehow I'm having difficulty with quotes in OTB)

In fact, I didn't, endure. My phrase 'disorder in Christ's Church' applies equally well to the entirety of Christendom as to the Catholic Church; it is up to you which you choose. And I don't think we'll go into the break-up of a reasonably united Christendom which followed the Reformation!

(I've just reread my post, and I agree it reads as if I meant only the Catholic Church. Perhaps I should have written 'ordinary Christians worldwide', because I think it impacts ALL Christians, not just the Catholics)

Yes, I rather agree with your last paragraph...... I could wish we were more militant! But at the moment I think we've got to retrench, clear up the mess, and then go forward more strongly than ever.

de facto......

If three serving priests and a former priest testify in court that O'Brien molested them, he will lose the case.

He knows it, the Pope knows it, the Scottish Catholic congregation knows it. I will be astounded if O'Brien pursues legal action.

When the Pope read the report....did he exclaim '<deleted>' ??

When the Pope read the report....did he exclaim '<deleted>' ??

what report? huh.png

When the Pope read the report....did he exclaim '<deleted>' ??

what report? huh.png
The red leather bound report.....what a waste of money...why he could not just read it on a4 paper with a paper clip attached.....which was dumped on his table apparently the day he decided to jump ship.
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Is the inference that the retiring Pope enjoys the same fantasies of the flesh as the sacked Cardinal?

Is the inference that the retiring Pope enjoys the same fantasies of the flesh as the sacked Cardinal?

You can infer almost anything from anything else if you try hard enough! If I admire an attractive woman, you might even infer that I'm not gay.... but you would be wrong!

Would you want a job where you had to wear red shoes? shock1.gif

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