Phuket Poll: Russian Tourists Equals ' No Money, No Matter'

[stevenl]

But for Phuket. If we think what these place would look like if all the Russian, Chinese, Middle Eastern and future Indian tourists would be taken out of the picture. That would not be a good for local economy. This is the reason why Phuket needs these new comers. Even if they don't play with the same rules as the previous visitors did.

It would hurt a little in the short term, but in the long run it would be much, much better for Phuket IMO if they were taken out of the picture. And that is from somebody who is dependent on tourism.

[Para]

oilinki whilst your logic is sound the reality is quite different.

I can only answer for Pattaya but local businesses are not seeing any Russian money as they are on total package holidays with very little extra available for domestic spending. Yes the local hotels need staffing to cope but as far as restaurants/bars go they are not benefiting.

Considering the fact there were only 100k Russian visitors to the Kingdom back in 2005 now we are seeing 1M+ and its growing strongly something needs to happen to get the balance right of Russian visitors and Russian spending or the resorts that they visit will be drained.

I am certainly not one of the many anti-Russian but I do see potential problems if the influx continues without supporting local business with their money.

What I mean by all of this. Phuket has already became a 'lame' place to go for an vacation. Quite like Teneriffe some 15-20 years ago. I believe that Phuket will not get it's glamorous status back for Europeans at least for the next few decades. The people who came here year after year have already got tired how the island started to turn out. They are and have been sourcing new places for their dream vacations. For example in my networks people seems to be talking more about Cuba than Thailand these days.

But for Phuket. If we think what these place would look like if all the Russian, Chinese, Middle Eastern and future Indian tourists would be taken out of the picture. That would not be a good for local economy. This is the reason why Phuket needs these new comers. Even if they don't play with the same rules as the previous visitors did.

Don't confuse quantity with quality.......

Let me dig out a piece written about Russians in Phuket hang on.

[Guest]

It would hurt a little in the short term, but in the long run it would be much, much better for Phuket IMO if they were taken out of the picture. And that is from somebody who is dependent on tourism.

In this case, who would be the people who would come here and bring money to Phuket?

If the amount of tourists would drop for example 50%. This would mean that the existing larger companies would fight over the tourists even more aggressively than they are doing today. This might kill some smaller companies, which can not afford to be without good income for example 5 years.

[Para]

SOURCE

On a Wednesday night deep in the jungles of Kathu in central Phuket, a man dressed as a chef is lying on his back twirling a pole with his feet upon which two French maids are sat. Surrounded by bored-looking tourists eating dinner and Russian-speaking Thai staff, the chef is performing in the circus tent of Palazzo Phuket – one of the many recently launched businesses looking to take advantage of Russian tourists on the island.

The tailors of Patong and Karon are learning Russian as well. Touts in front of the countless custom suit shops on the neon tourist trap streets of these two Phuket beach towns have added “privet” to their repertoire of greetings in addition to the “g’day mate” they throw at groups of singlet-wearing suspected Aussies or “guten tag” to Germans.

Russian restaurants with signs in Cyrillic are popping up around the island, serving borscht and blini next to pad thai and fried rice joints. And the big white tour busses of Russian tour agency Pegas Touristik – with its now ubiquitous green and blue Pegasus logo – sometimes travelling in convoys of three or four – are an everyday sight on Thepkassattri Road, the island’s main artery.

These are all symptoms of a Russian wave of tourists that has washed over the island of Phuket in recent years that is unsettling many in the island’s THB100bn (USD3.3bn) tourism industry. In 2005, only 107,017 Russian tourists arrived in Thailand. Since then, numbers have skyrocketed. According to statistics from the Department of Tourism and the Tourism Authority of Thailand arrivals leapt from about 190,000 in 2006 to about 280,000 in 2007, and from 320,000 in 2008 to 337,000 in 2009. There was then a massive jump of about 91 per cent to 645,000 in 2010. From January to April this year,
the last available records, 389,656 Russians entered the Kingdom, 47.8 per cent more than the 263,643 from the same period in 2010 and on pace
for a record 1.17 million total arrivals this year.

Phuket-specific statistics from the Department of Tourism measure “arrivals at accommodation establishments” and are generally not as well kept (there is a conspicuous and unfortunate gap for the last three months of 2007 and 2008), but they show the same uptrend. In the first nine months of both 2007 and 2008, roughly 75,000 Russians checked into Phuket hotels – so around 100,000 for the year. In 2009, which has complete statistics, about 178,000 Russians checked in to Phuket hotels and in 2010, Russian hotel arrivals in Phuket jumped 28 per cent to nearly 230,000. Marriott Hotels in Phuket alone, for example, have recorded a roughly 21 per cent increase in Russian visitors from 2009 to 2010.

One reason for the dramatic increase in numbers is simple – with Russia’s petro-economy pumping, more Russians have more money than they ever did before. Another reason is that it’s never been easier for Russians to get to Phuket. With visas available on arrival, three charter airlines now run direct flights between Russia and Phuket International Airport – Transaero, Nordwind, and Blue Panorama Airlines.

Roughly 39,000 Russians arrived in Phuket on one of these charter flights in 2009 while nearly 138,000 did in 2010, according to airport statistics. Pegas Touristik, one of the biggest Russian tour agencies in Thailand, began chartering flights from four cities in Russia to Phuket during the 2009-2010 season through Nordwind, its sister company. In the 2010-2011 season, they more than doubled the number of departure cities to nine – including many in Siberia like Omsk, Irkutsk, and Surgut. Next season, says Pegas Thailand managing director Kubilay Atac, they will run direct flights to Phuket from approximately 15 cities.

“Vacation for everybody, this is the main idea,” says Atac, who is Turkish. “Before, people in Siberia had to come to the big cities to travel so for them it was double the expense.” Back at the circus in the jungle, Palazzo Phuket’s Ukrainian executive producer Alexandra Bond, says that nearly 99 per cent of their
customers are Russians in the high season and about 70 per cent in the low season. Most of this business comes from package tours who are generally lower middle class, she says. Bond says that there are two main classes of Russian tourists – the lower middle class and the ultra-wealthy – just like the two classes back in Russia.

Indeed, extremely wealthy Russians have begun to conspicuously buy-into the island. Real estate billionaire Vladislav Doronin and his girlfriend model Naomi Campbell visited in February and were photographed by paparazzi frolicking on the beach in Surin. A mega-villa in Phang Nga, just north of the Sarasin Bridge to Phuket, was sold last year to a Russian buyer for a reported USD26mn, the most expensive property that anyone can remember being bought in the area. And the most famous and powerful of Russian of all, President (now Prime Minister) Vladimir Putin himself, visited Phuket in 2003 and was photographed swimming in the Andaman Sea. But these examples are outliers, and the vast majority of Russians visiting Phuket come as part of package tours.

The island is abuzz with talk of these new tourists and it must be said that they do not have a great reputation. They’re known for spending hardly any money outside their nearly all-inclusive package for which they’ve paid a flat fee in Russia. They are also known for drinking heavily but buying their alcohol at 7-11 rather than spending money at local establishments, and being aggressive. Many of the package tourists are industrial workers and farmers from Siberia, says Bhuritt Mswongssa, vice president of the Phuket Tourist Association and deputy general manager of Patong Resort, so they are “low yield” and not necessarily the most cosmopolitan of folks.

A tailor from Burma named Mawdu sitting in front of M@ster Fashion World in Karon puts it succinctly when he says, “They’re not good business for the tailors or the beer bars.” Still, he’s put up a letter and photo from a satisfied Russian customer on his door, hoping to bolster business with the new tourists. He estimates that roughly 70 per cent of all passers-by are now Russian in Karon.

In January 2011, local media reported that six Russian tour groups were banned from operation by the Phuket Tourism Business and Guide Registration Office for operating as “zero baht” agencies – saying basically, that because their clients were paying a flat fee for the whole trip in Russia, zero baht was going into the local economy. This ruling came after complaints were filed in late 2010 by local tour guides alleging that the agencies were using Russian tour guides, breaking Thailand’s law requiring all tour guides to be Thai. “These Russians are stealing our jobs,” a tour guide told the Phuket Gazette.
Phuket Tourism Business and Guide Registration Office Chief Piyasuda Sukcharoen says that actually eight tour groups were banned, simply because they were breaking the law by using non-Thai tour guides.

But upon further investigation, can a huge influx of new tourists really be that bad for Phuket’s vacation economy? Are all these Russians really spending zero baht, as some claim?

“That’s absolutely rubbish,” says Bill Barnett, founder of hotel consultancy C9 Hotelworks, which publishes regular statistical reports on tourism in Phuket. “At the end of the day, when these Russian tour groups stay in a hotel most of that money comes through because the hotels are usually owned by Thais.”

Bhuritt agrees that the notion that Russians are “zero baht” tourists isn’t true. The package may be booked with a flat fee in Russia, he says, but local companies are contracted on nearly every step of their journey from hotels to busses. Despite the fact that money is definitely going into the Thai economy from the Russians, “there are two sides to the coin,” says Bhuritt. “It’s great to increase the tourist numbers, but Russians don’t get along very well with other tourists.” Bhuritt says that Phuket needs to find a balance of Russian tourists without driving away other Europeans – the British, Germans, and Scandinavians that are Phuket’s historic bread and butter. He gives what has happened to Pattaya, where Russians have come to dominate the foreign tourism market at the expense of others, as an example of what Phuket needs to avoid.

The bosses from Pegas Touristik balk at the notion that their business isn’t putting money back into Phuket’s economy. Espen Westlie, managing director for Pegas’ Phuket office, says that numbers have increased almost 150 per cent in the last three years to where they are now handling 5,800 to 6,000 guests per night. “With the increase in numbers, hotels are earning more and locals are earning more,” says Westlie.

Prices for packages to Phuket with Pegas Touristik vary widely depending on factors like the hotel, time of year, and flight occupancy, but the minimum is about USD3,000 for a 12 night stay, says Pegas managing director Atac. Pegas tours include only breakfast, so travellers must buy their own lunch and dinner – most likely putting that money into a local restaurant. The company uses Thai tour guides, he says. Atac also points out that Pegas has about 380 Thai staff in Thailand – for Phuket he’s not exactly sure of the numbers – but is that money not going back into the local economy? And don’t these families
from Siberia deserve their moment in the sun? “With 11 months of grey weather, people have to travel somewhere to restore their energy. That’s the main reason why we’re focusing on Siberia,” he says.

But Phuket Tourism Business and Guide Registration Office chief Piyasuda, says no. She has tried to ban Pegas Touristik but says that the company is registered in Bangkok so she has no jurisdiction over them. She also believes that although the Russian tour groups are putting some money into the local economy, they spend less than other tourists and drive those other tourists away. “I believe Phuket will lose more than it will earn from Russian tour groups,” she says. “But I don’t think Phuket will ever be like Pattaya because it has more local strength.”

Certainly Phuket has a well-deserved reputation for hardcore protectionism in its tourism industry. The so called “tuk-tuk mafia”, which has a monopoly on the island’s transportation and charges extortionate prices, immediately comes to mind. Bhurrit says there’s nothing new under the sun, and that the uproar that’s going on now is exactly the same as when Japanese, Koreans, and Germans began visiting Phuket in all-inclusive tours years ago. The local tourism industry was up in arms about these new visitors back then, but in short time figured out maximising income from them – especially by learning their languages.

If Phuket has show anything before, it’s that it can turn every new stream of visitors into revenue. And this new stream from Siberia likely won’t be any different.

[Mudcrab]

Shouldn't all the thai bashers who hate the taxi and Tuk Tuk drivers be rejoicing in this?

[pagallim]

^^

I note that the article is from July 2011, and the number of Russian tourists have certainly increased noticeably in percentage terms since then for sure.

As Oilinki points out, the Russians (and Chinese, Koreans etc) are only filling a void caused by the West's economic downturn, but I think more pertinently the decline in the islands status as a 'premier' destination. All the west coast resorts (except those in the north) are synonymous with greed and sleaze.

For Europeans, there are much more attractive winter sun options, and the value and quality offered in the Mediterranean countries in summer can't be matched by Thailand.

The Thais themselves are responsible for the current situation, and I for one don't have any sympathy. It's also the Thais themselves who can regain Phuket's perceived status, but only through strict control on planning and infrastructure. Of course, we all know that's not going to happen, too much inherent corruption to allow something like common sense prevail. Easier to just go on witch hunts, and blame everyone else.

[stoli]

Maybe I am missing something. I am too busy each day enjoying Thailand to follow Russians through the streets and calculate how much they are spending. Seems like that is their business, not mine.

[Guest]

I agree for the most of the above article. Not quite for the root reasons provided by local Guide office, why Europeans are not so keen of Phuket anymore.

It would be nice to hear from the people who are actually on the tourism sector, how they see the future? How Phuket will look like in 5 years time? Not the wishes, but what this place is likely going to be.

Also what kind of steps each on is doing to do to adapt to the future?

[HaleySabai]

Their accommodation is extremely discounted, the tours they do are often completely Russian owned, including the waiter at the eatery, no money spend anywhere that is not controlled by them.

This reminds me of when the Japanese were flooding Canada, in the beginning when the tours were less organized the native Japanese were easy targets for over-charging by the locals...and they would always say "ah,thak-you,thak-you" for everything they bought at enormously inflated prices. Later the tour operators ran everything within an exclusive parameter ; charter flights, japanese owned and operated tour buses,hotels and restaurants.... even the gift shops in Banff and areas of Vancouver are run by them.

So at the end of the day only a small percentage of revenue from the whole operation would find its way into the local market.....the "crumbs" so to speak.

At least the Japanese-tourist was well-heeled compared to say now the average Chinese or Russian.....in Canada these groups are not "tourist" but immigrants and gangsters.

[oldsailor35]

I would, there are thousands of Russians coming to Thailand now on very cheap package tours.

What percentage of the total are spending big or even likesay a european tourist?

I have talked to a lot of Thais here in Pattay about the Russian tourists and all say the same thing. They hate the Russians because they are rude, brash, laud and very cheap.

I know a bar tender at the Camelot who told me the Russians, who dominate the hotel, go to 7 Eleven and buy booze and then want to sit in the hotel bar and drike it. When told they have to pay a table fee they get outraged.

Pretty much my experience, I live in Jomtien about half of the year and hear the same things.

Some Hotels are even putting notices outside "No Russians".

Why would they do they if they were getting benefit from them?

I was in Kata for a couple of weeks last November, heard noting but Russian on the street but in the restaurants and bars, very very few!

Ah the joys of Jomtienski!

I was on Pratumnak for a few weeks recently and was amazed at the volume of Russians walking around. Then you have the added problem of trying to get a bahtbus from Jomtien into Pattaya. The buses are often full to the point of being dangerous and the traffic making it quicker to walk or take a bike.

Their cultures are certainly different from ours but change is the only constant in life.

This is VERY hot on another board that I post on and it seems one of the plus sides is the way they will happily push in front of Thai's that are queuing at 7-11!

And as a non Russian farang i constantly get Thai's pushing in front of me at 7-11 and Makro but they cannot do it at Big C or Tesco Lotus.

[Locationthailand]

44% said it doesn’t matter, because very little Russian money reaches the pockets of Phuket residents anyway.

This is one part I don't understand, how people can get to this conclusion. When there is inflow of people, it means that money is coming in. The money is spent mostly here in Phuket.

This money will be going down to for example bus drivers, hotels, restaurants etc. which employ locals.. who will buy food for their families, buy motorbikes or cars pay taxes etc.

Businesses make also some profit, which is spend to make new constructions -> money recycles again. Some part, will be sent back to the Russia or Turkey as profit of the operation.

Media ignorance - wouldn't expect anything less from Phuket. The Russians are welcome to it.

[rotorbreeze]

Have to agree with Cheesyd here.

I imagine Phuket is similar to Pattaya with regards Russians and indeed the newer Asian tourists.

Everything is paid up front and they use their money very sparsly.

All the money goes to selected businesses and very little elsewhere.

The only businesses that benefit from the Russians are the 7elevens and the various food marts where they buy booze and snacks before retreating to the beach/hotel/appartment.

Other than a minority they are never seen in bars or restaurants.

How do the local businesses benefit from that?

Yes true, even the message parlours that I have patroned are upset as the Russians as well as the Indians do not tip...I have seen the price is up 100 baht to make up for the time I usually give...I also noticed HealthLands in N. Pattaya have increased their prices, due to the increase of Koreans and Japaneese tour buses...as for me I still have my favourite lady whom knows my condition and focuses on her talents to make my visit enjoyable and refreshed...for 4oo baht for 2 hrs it is well worth it...back home prices are not affordable, nor is the attitude of the cold North American hands!

A lot of Russian restaraunts have appeared, not for the Thai's but for the Russians, same with the TV now full of Russian programs and repeading Ad's of owning a Condo...the Russians are coming, the Russians are coming....

The reason the Russians are rude is Marxism and integration of some of the key Marxist concepts into their thinking and practice. In this way, with the economic spurt and industrialization in Russia in the 1890s, they attempted to broaden their appeal in order to attract the rapidly growing urban workforce to their traditionally peasant-oriented programme. The intention was to widen the concept of the 'people' so that it encompassed all elements in the society that were opposed to the Tsarist regime. to make this short..if you showed any "out of place" feelings towards an unknown commrade you maybe be arrested.Terrorism was controversial for the party from the beginning, however. At its Second Congress in Imatra in 1906, the controversy over terrorism was one of the main reasons for the defection of the SR Maximalists on the left and the Popular Socialistson the right. The Maximalists endorsed not only attacks on politicaland government targets but also'economic terror' (i.e., attacks onlandowners, factory owners etc.); the Popular Socialists rejected all terrorism ....YOU must not show feelings towards others....THIS WAS CARRIED DOWN THROUGH GENERATIONS OF RUSSIANS...as you may have experienced dealing with Russians in Thailand.

[Guest]

Please use the quotations to differentiate which is your text and which is from the wikipedia as well as source URL to make the text more easy for the rest of us to read.

I believe this was the source with modifications: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Revolutionary_Party

[antiquepete]

The same happens on the Queensland Gold Coast, everything paid for in country of origin and taken to duty free outlet owned by the companies. The local business gets very little from these tourists

Most Russian ( & Chinese) tourists are on package deals, money paid upfront before they leave home for all accomm, food, tours etc. Small businesses don't benefit, only a select few resorts, tour businesses. Money isn't as evenly spread around as with independent European visitors.

[jocko]

Please use the quotations to differentiate which is your text and which is from the wikipedia as well as source URL to make the text more easy for the rest of us to read.

I believe this was the source with modifications: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Revolutionary_Party

This topic or something like it will be be in TV for a good while yet you can look at stats and info from the internet or TV but you can look on the street as well and what do I see in Patong.

If there was no Russian,Chinese, Arab ,Indian tourists the place would be dead .

Are they same as western tourist's no you can ask in bars and street sellers of cigs.flowers .and battery operated toys do you like the new tourists answer ,no , Cheap Charlie's.

But ask the same question to motorcycle and car renter's and 7 eleven stores what would the answer be?

Two saying's come to mind.

You reap what you sow.

It's a ill wind that blows no good

[schlog]

In Pattaya a bunch of existing hotels are being renovated, and new ones being built, by a Chinese company. This includes hotels like VC and Day Night. Their target is Chinese tourists. While the hotels employ Thai workers, the big profits are staying in Chinese pockets. Like the Russians, Chinese tourists come here on a pre-paid package, take lots of photos and spend very little money. Why this sort of thing is being allowed by the authorities is pretty easy to figure out. :-)

Even these Chinese tourists are spending money here every time they sleep in an hotel or take a bus drive to see some tourists attraction. It does not matter who owns the company. The money is just not paid directly to the local companies, but routed trough travel agency.

The Chinese nor Russians did not scare other tourists away. It was the greed of local businesses.

If there would not be large masses of Chinese and Russian tourists, Phuket would be quite quiet place at the moment. This would suit for many of us, but it would not be good for people who are dependent of the touristic money in a way or another.

Their accommodation is extremely discounted, the tours they do are often completely Russian owned, including the waiter at the eatery, no money spend anywhere that is not controlled by them.

IMO it would be better for local businesses to suffer now in the hope of something better for the future, because if the Russians are controlling the market there will for sure be nothing in the future, they are scaring everybody else away.

+1

[fiddlehead]

All this talk is about Russian tourists.
Excuse me if I'm guilty of thread-drift here but there are more and more Russians moving to Phuket.
My wife works for a family of them and so does 3 of her friends. (Same family)
So, there's one family supporting 4 Thai people right there.

She tells me they shop at Central, Villa Market, and sometimes Tesco.
I know these are mostly foreign owned places, but, aren't we all a little guilty of shopping there?

Leave them alone folks.
They were brought up different than you or I.
Ok, they don't smile a lot, and are a bit rude. But hopefully they are learning about respecting other cultures.
Something many of us could do more of also.

And, their women look pretty good in a bathing suit. (been to the beach lately?)

[iSabai]

All this talk is about Russian tourists.

Excuse me if I'm guilty of thread-drift here but there are more and more Russians moving to Phuket.

My wife works for a family of them and so does 3 of her friends. (Same family)

So, there's one family supporting 4 Thai people right there.

She tells me they shop at Central, Villa Market, and sometimes Tesco.

I know these are mostly foreign owned places, but, aren't we all a little guilty of shopping there?

Leave them alone folks.

They were brought up different than you or I.

Ok, they don't smile a lot, and are a bit rude. But hopefully they are learning about respecting other cultures.

Something many of us could do more of also.

And, their women look pretty good in a bathing suit. (been to the beach lately?)

So then there's one family that is allegedly "supporting 4 Thai people". And, they were brought up different than us, sort of like Thais then I suppose. Who were also brought up different than us and, by the way, who's country it is that we're living in, innit.

And maybe "they don't smile a lot, and are a bit rude". But hey, "hopefully they are learning about respecting other cultures." And what better way is there to learn about respecting other cultures than by not smiling and being rude?

And, hold on now... they also shop at Villa Mart and Tesco, so they can't be all that bad, right? Because that's what farangs who "respect other cultures" do, innit. Shop at places that specialize in stuff from their own cultures.

And - the ultimate deal clincher of course - is that their women look good in their bathing suits on the beach. That's definitely deserving of a free pass all around. If that's not "learning about respecting other cultures", I don't know what else is!

[happyfish88]

All this talk is about Russian tourists.

Excuse me if I'm guilty of thread-drift here but there are more and more Russians moving to Phuket.

My wife works for a family of them and so does 3 of her friends. (Same family)

So, there's one family supporting 4 Thai people right there.

She tells me they shop at Central, Villa Market, and sometimes Tesco.

I know these are mostly foreign owned places, but, aren't we all a little guilty of shopping there?

Leave them alone folks.

They were brought up different than you or I.

Ok, they don't smile a lot, and are a bit rude. But hopefully they are learning about respecting other cultures.

Something many of us could do more of also.

And, their women look pretty good in a bathing suit. (been to the beach lately?)

I find them quite friendly at my karon condo estate, they speak some english.

One of them even taught me ways to strengthen my abs muscle.

I think it is e langauge barrier and culture differences, once you get to know them....i would say they are more outspoken and fun loving.

http://www.youtube.com/embed/8EiJHmHPVig