New Ed Visa Rules And Re Entry Permit Nightmare Please Help!

[Phronesis]

I am in Phuket.

I am on an ED visa.

I attend school as required.

About a year ago, I did a visa run to Penang, with the required letters from my school and came back with a 3 month visa.

At the end of the 3 months, I went to immigration with some more letters from my school, paid 1900 THB and received a 9 month extension.

I attended class and did my 90 day reports as required and did not leave Thailand at all during the year.

I have just paid for another 12 months of study at my school, and they have sent away for another letter from the Ministry of Education.

However, I have been informed by my school that the rules for ED Visa extensions have just been changed dramatically by Phuket immigration.

I was told by my school that:

"The changes have been made to address the significant amount of Russians that are abusing the ED Visa to work illegally in Phuket".

When I enquired about the details of these new changes this is the explanation provided by my school:

1. You pay your tuition fees and the school sends off for the MOE letter (no change...same as always)

2. You go to immigration and pay 1900THB and they put a "probation stamp" (my school's wording not mine) in my passport for a 1 month stay.

3. Immigration officers will then visit my school throughout the 1 month probation period to check I am attending class.

4. If I check out, then I have to go back to immigration after 1 month, pay another 1900THB and I will be given a 5 month extension.

5. After, the five month extension expires, its back to immigration to pay another 1900THB and get a second 1 month "probation stamp".

6. During this second probation period, Immigration officers will again visit my school to check my attendance.

7. If I check out a second time, then I have to go back to immigration again, pay another 1900THB and I will be given a second 5 month extension.

8. In addition to this regime, I will also have to make four 90 day reports, none of which will line up with the other visits to immigration.

My current 9 month extension runs out next month, and so I will be off to immigration to apply for my first 1 month "probationary period" stamp.

So my first question is this: If anyone has already done this can you please confirm that the new requirements I have outlined above are correct. Any information you can give regarding this mystery "probation stamp" would be appreciated, as would any information regarding fees paid to immigration.

I have read in ThaiVisa previously that some member's who are on 12 month visas, apply for a multi entry re entry permit (and pay the 3200THB fee) at the same time they are making their extension to kill two birds with one stone, and to have the multi entry handy if they want to make an emergency trip out of Thailand.

My elderly father will be undergoing scheduled surgery next week, his health may be touch and go moving forward.

It was my plan, when apply for my next ED visa extension next month (which under the old system would have been for a full 12 months) to also apply (and pay 3200THB) at the same time for a 12 month multi entry re entry permit. I would then of had it handy if I had to make an emergency flight back home to see my father.

So my second question is this: Can I still apply for a 12 month multi entry re entry permit? And can I apply for this on the same day that I have to go to Immigration to get my 1 month "probationary stamp"?

Thanks for any information anyone can provide to answer my two questions.

And please, do not derail this thread worthless comments about Russians and other people using the ED visa to work illegally. This thread is NOT about those issues.

This thread is about trying to clarify the new requirements for ED Visa extensions at Phuket immigration and how they will effect the 12 month multi entry re entry permit.

[beano2274]

A reentry permit is only valid for the extension you have been given so in your case would only be valid for one month, If you received the 5 month one as you have suggested above then the reentry permit is valid for those five months only.

Edited March 14, 2013 by beano2274

[TerryLH]

ํYou can get a single re-entry permit for 1000 baht.

A multiple re-entry permit is 3800 baht, if I'm not mistaken, not 3200.

[wayned]

Sounds like they are finally cracking down on the "Visa Schools", some might be in real trouble. I suspect that additional "liscensing fees" will correct the problem for some , but at least it's a step in the right direction. Unfortunately those that are actually attending classes will suffer the most with an additional trip to immmigration and an additionasl 1900 baht.

Edited March 14, 2013 by wayned

[Mario2008]

your re-entry permit is only valid till your current permission to stay ends, so a multiple will in most cases be a waist of money if you extend every 90 days.

The propabation period is used to determine/check if you qualify or not, it would be unusual if you have to pay 1,900 baht again after you get final approval. (But would be the same price as two 90 day extensions)

[IMA_FARANG]

Do you know if this is a Phuket local procedure, or is it somthing that will be initiated countrywide?

And are you saying that when you get your initial one month "probation" stamp and pay the 1900 Baht you are going to have to pay another 1900 Baht for a 2nd one month "probation" period before you get your final 6 month approval?

But as for exit re-entry permits, as someone else pointed out, a exit re-emtry is only good for the period of your current exctension.

So if you are on a one month "probation" extension it ould be silly to purchase a multi entry exit re-entry permit as you would be very unlikely to need a multi entry exit re-entry permit more thsn once in those one month long probation periods anyhow.

I suspect that nationwide actual attendence checks of those on a "Ed visa" extension are going to be more frequent soon enough.

Phuket is probably just the tip of the iceberg....the rest of the iceberg is looming nearby and will appear soon.

Pattaya and those "perpetual Thai students" that seem to spend most of their time in bars in Pattaya had better watch out.

[lopburi3]

A for first question have seen a recent mention but your account seems to be detailed and likely how it works - it actually gets Phuket more inline with the rest of the country who normally will only allow 3 month extensions of stay (you pay every 3 months so same cost as your 1 month and 5 month). But once again marching to there own drummer rather than using the system normally used elsewhere.

As for the re-entry permit as said it is only valid for your current permitted to stay stamp so multi re-entry probably is not a good value for most.

[Jawnie]

I've been in Thailand for two years on an ED visa in Bangkok. It has gone smoothly the entire time. I attend class regularly even though I'm a pretty awful student. One quarter I barely attended for various reasons, but the school gave me the required paper work for the 3 month extension.

I renewed my 90-day extension one month ago and it was the same as always - no one month probationary stamp....never had one. Twice I've gone through the process of applying to the MOE of permission to stay one year (subject to the 3-month renewals/extensions).

The re-entry permit has nothing to do with your ED visa. The re-entry permit simply allows you to re-enter the country after you leave, for whatever reason, only during the validity of your current visa. You don't get the re-entry permit as part of the ED visa process, they are separate. I got one re-entry permit one time. It was valid only until the expiration of the visa extension of the time. I've never had any type of one-month probation as part of the ED visa.

[fauxie]

I'm really interested in this. I'm married to a Thai and for a while have been getting 1 year multiple entry O visas. However, I'm very proficient at speaking Thai but cannot read or write it and have been thinking a lot lately about studying Thai. Is it still easy to get the 1 year ED visa and will it be better than the O visa I currently get (i.e. not leaving the country every 90 days, cheaper etc.)?

[Mario2008]

The Ed-visa will cost more, as you need to get an extension and pay 1,900 baht every 90 days in addition to the course fee of around 27,000.

[fauxie]

The Ed-visa will cost more, as you need to get an extension and pay 1,900 baht every 90 days in addition to the course fee of around 27,000.

But I'm used to traveling down to Penang to get my visa, then going to Cambodia every 3 months for my multi-entry 1 year visa. It's more expensive than that??? Or were you comparing to the 1 year extension. I've never had one and I don't know if I can get one. I've not got 400k in a Thai bank account and likely won't have a chance to have that this year or next. I can do only 70-80k per month in a Thai account, but can that get me a 1 year extension as things stand?

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

70k from what? If from local employment with a work permit only 40k income is required. If from overseas from a pension it could be used for retirement extension if over age 50 and avoid marriage issues completely. Income from outside Thailand would have to be stated on an embassy letter and provable paperwork provided if asked for any extension use.

[Phronesis]

The Ed-visa will cost more, as you need to get an extension and pay 1,900 baht every 90 days in addition to the course fee of around 27,000.

The Ed-visa will cost more, as you need to get an extension and pay 1,900 baht every 90 days in addition to the course fee of around 27,000.

With respect Mario, your quote on the costs of maintaining the ED visa are well under the mark.

The fee is about right...I pay 25K

But a summary of total costs is as follows:

tuition 25K

books 800 4 courses per year 200 thb per book

extensions 7k6

rentry permit 4k 4 x single entry because a multi re entry no long feasible under new rules

photocopies 100 conservative estimates given the extent of copies required for extension, re entry permits and 90 day reports

photos 150

fuel to attend 15K

Total Actual Cost per year: 52,659 (and this is for an extension of existing visa not a new visa from scratch which would also require an initial visa run)

But the real hidden cost is YOUR TIME:

100days each year to attend commute two days a week to attend class 2 class per week fifty weeks each year

8 days each year to visit immigration 4 trips to immigration for extension and re entry permits and 4 trips for the 90 day reports that do not line up with the extension dats

1 day (at least) lost attending to photocopies and photos and other paper shuffling requirements

10-20 days each year for home work depends on your school but most require homework to be completed

So if you are happy to devote 120 to 130 free days this year to meeting requirements and a spare 55,000 THB then a ED visa in Phuket might be for you.

If not, look for another visa option.

Unfortunately, if you are a self funded retiree like myself, who is a long way of 50, there are no other long term visa options available. I am off to Cambodia next year. To hell with spending 55,000 THB and devoting 120 days of my precious time just to maintain a long term visa.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Phronesis

[VINCENT2012]

in my opinion dont trust any comentair from internet or lawyer.

1) just go to the imigration office and ask them exactly what kind of paperwork they need for your case.

Insist in getting the information clearly and whrite everything down.

2) do the same thing in another imigration office and ask always the same questions to see if the answers are the same.

3)avoid turist places like phuket or pataya....it is too hot.!

you can call one off the office there:

http://www.asiatradingonline.com/visachecks.htm

this year i heard from the police that the new chef in bkk is going to give us a hard time and when they receive in kaolak your dossier to be aprouved then they will examin your document and if it is not exactly like they want overthere then it will be rejected.

they told me that they convert at the central a non o year visa into a 6 mounth non o visa.

just because they did not like the way the photos from the house where made.so ....you understand now..!

the new politic is to make us mad to kick us away ....wife included.they dont say it but they are doing it.

[horsewell]

I just sent the Phronesis's info to the school I have been going to and they confirmed (on a Sunday in a few hours which is better than emailing the thaivisa sponsor that has schools in Phuket, BKK, Pattaya and Chiang Mai which after two weeks and a few emails and personal visits (no manager) still reply) that is the way it is.

If you have ever done visa runs 4 a year at the cost of 1500 - 2000THB for a land run. Paying immigration is not that expensive and preferable. If the school and immigration are not so far away it's not days but only hours out of ones life on a weekly / monthly (less than 2 days) basis. If you have spent any time on Thai roads, a visa run is not something that is desired. I have seen horror smashes, read reports and had near misses.

After being on a couple of Non-Imm Ed visas for 5 years the current school says that they don't think I can continue. They say I'm too good already. As soon as you learn the basics the few places I have studied at don't really know what to do, even if they have various levels of study. If you make any effort you will end up going into uncharted water really quickly.

Anyhow, I'm looking into other things I can do. I still have a few months to figure things out.

[tombkk]

An off-topic post and a reply about Cambodia visas have been hidden from view.

[david555]

I just sent the Phronesis's info to the school I have been going to and they confirmed (on a Sunday in a few hours which is better than emailing the thaivisa sponsor that has schools in Phuket, BKK, Pattaya and Chiang Mai which after two weeks and a few emails and personal visits (no manager) still reply) that is the way it is.

If you have ever done visa runs 4 a year at the cost of 1500 - 2000THB for a land run. Paying immigration is not that expensive and preferable. If the school and immigration are not so far away it's not days but only hours out of ones life on a weekly / monthly (less than 2 days) basis. If you have spent any time on Thai roads, a visa run is not something that is desired. I have seen horror smashes, read reports and had near misses.

After being on a couple of Non-Imm Ed visas for 5 years the current school says that they don't think I can continue. They say I'm too good already. As soon as you learn the basics the few places I have studied at don't really know what to do, even if they have various levels of study. If you make any effort you will end up going into uncharted water really quickly.

Anyhow, I'm looking into other things I can do. I still have a few months to figure things out.

If too good for Thai .... go for Russian .....no kidding , it is also allowed , as so for Thai cooking, Scuba diving ....always by official recognized schools of course

[nikkoid66]

Anyone from Wallen to give some input?

[Maestro]

I have deleted a nonsensical post.

[lopburi3]

Personal flame removed.

[joepattaya1961]

The OP reports from a situation in Phuket. It's an example of a local immigration office which is able to "change" the existing visa-rules up to their needs and specific situation.

Those are not new rules, just a local thing.

[Phronesis]

Yes...

Noting that Wallen has a language school in Phuket, I too would be grateful if someone from that organization sought to clarify the issues I raised in my initial post.

Given that they sponsor this website, I imagine they would be keen to provide its members with some insight.

[ubonjoe]

Going back to your topic 3 and 4. I don't think you will pay 1900 baht twice. The 30 day period will be a extension application is under consideration stamp with a date to report back. You pay 1900 baht when you make application and then get 6 month extension stamp from your permit to stay date you had when you made the application when you go back after 30 days.

The under consideration period is standard procedure for extensions based upon marriage and some extensions for working also.

Edited March 18, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Phronesis]

Going back to your topic 3 and 4. I don't think you will pay 1900 baht twice. The 30 day period will be a extension application is under consideration stamp with a date to report back. You pay 1900 baht when you make application and then get 6 month extension stamp from your permit to stay date you had when you made the application when you go back after 30 days.

The under consideration period is standard procedure for extensions based upon marriage and some extensions for working also.

Yes...very shrewd by Immigration to include this 1 month consideration period....twice each year. Opens up countless opportunities for tea money requests....and if not forthcoming...no extension stamp...

Just like the 300 THB bribe you HAVE to pay if you want a FREE residency certificate from Phuket immigration.

[ubonjoe]

I don't think think getting tea money is the reason for the under consideration period it is just a way to check out the school and that you are actually attending classes. In away it is better than having to get an extension every 90 days that is done in other locations.

Just remember that if you plan on traveling during the 30 day wait you will have to get a re-entry permit for just that 30 days.

Many immigration offices charge an unofficial fee for certificates of residence. 300 baht is cheap compared to some that charge 500 baht.

Edited March 18, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Mario2008]

1 post removed. That the changes are only to create more opportunities for tea money are speculations and not allowed.

[ALFREDO]

Unfortunately, if you are a self funded retiree like myself, who is a long way of 50, there are no other long term visa options available. I am off to Cambodia next year. To hell with spending 55,000 THB and devoting 120 days of my precious time just to maintain a long term visa.

One, Two, Tourist Visa a year and/or one day -return- flights to KL - Singapore, when booked some time with Promotions of various Low Cost Airlines,

3-5.000 Baht a trip, is a bit cheaper and by far less time consuming than your choice.

I did that for many years. Also as father of Thai children, before 2009, no Non Immigrant -O- Visa for that possible.