Liverpool F.c.

[alfieconn]

Let me translate for you carms...what he's saying is we'll finish in the top four.

Abrak is a card, he really is.

Always the optimist is a scouser i remember at one time last season when they were going to finish 5th

[MrRed]

Let me translate for you carms...what he's saying is we'll finish in the top four.

Abrak is a card, he really is.

Always the optimist is a scouser i remember at one time last season when they were going to finish 5th

Says he who bottled the wager

[spongeman]

The ref made the correct decision. The laws of the game state very clearly that even if the player gets the ball if the challenge is deemed dangerous then that player has to go. Graham Taylor said on 5 Live that you do not play football on your backside, and I agree with him. Everton had no interest in trying to win the game anyway, the right team won.

Yours

Scouser John

[alfieconn]

Let me translate for you carms...what he's saying is we'll finish in the top four.

Abrak is a card, he really is.

Always the optimist is a scouser i remember at one time last season when they were going to finish 5th

Says he who bottled the wager

Get a brain mate, i offered you the bet on the top ten then i offered you the bet on the top eight after your comments that we wouldn't finish in the top ten so who bottled the wager i suppose you've changed the goal post's again now, that we wont finish in the top two

Edited October 4, 2011 by alfieconn

[carmine]

The ref made the correct decision. The laws of the game state very clearly that even if the player gets the ball if the challenge is deemed dangerous then that player has to go. Graham Taylor said on 5 Live that you do not play football on your backside, and I agree with him. Everton had no interest in trying to win the game anyway, the right team won.

Yours

Scouser John

Thanks for that pearl of widom. God that tackle was danderous wasn't it. i feared for Suarez's life i really did.

As Souness said, its getting near the time when tackles will be illegal.

Edited October 4, 2011 by carmine

[MrRed]

[Let me translate for you carms...what he's saying is we'll finish in the top four.

Abrak is a card, he really is.

Always the optimist is a scouser i remember at one time last season when they were going to finish 5th

Says he who bottled the wager

Get a brain mate, i offered you the bet on the top ten then i offered you the bet on the top eight after your comments that we wouldn't finish in the top ten so who bottled the wager i suppose you've changed the goal post's again now, that we wont finish in the top two

Exactly,yes i said i might even stretch to 7th but you still never had the confidence in your team......did you?

top ten top eight?? how the mighty yidiods follow there team .....i suppose you feel you are top 4 material again now no?

bottler

[PST]

I've noticed that there dosen't seem to be any mention of the behaviour of the Everton fans on saturday,too busy spouting their vile hatred,Hillsborough songs/gestures and bitterness to notce their team was 0-1 down with ten men at home and actually in need of some support. If you get behind them, you can sometimes win with ten men, like us last time out.

Not to mention the coins/bottles thrown at bellamy and suarez to name a few.

Disgrace to the city.

PST.

Edited October 4, 2011 by PST

[StevieH]

I've noticed that there dosen't seem to be any mention of the behaviour of the Everton fans on saturday,too busy spouting their vile hatred,Hillsborough songs/gestures and bitterness to notce their team was 0-1 down with ten men at home and actually in need of some support. If you get behind them, you can sometimes win with ten men, like us last time out.

Not to mention the coins/bottles thrown at bellamy and suarez to name a few.

Disgrace to the city.

PST.

echo journos have flagged up just how many were doing hillsborough songs and gestures. sad, not least considering how many evertonians lost family members that day too.

and that's not to mention the incessant booing of the ref, suarez, at half-time etc. way to support your team as well that is. but it won't be their fault of course, it'll be atkinson, suarez, heysel, the waxing of the moon. . . .no everton defeat is ever everton's fault.

[carmine]

I've noticed that there dosen't seem to be any mention of the behaviour of the Everton fans on saturday,too busy spouting their vile hatred,Hillsborough songs/gestures and bitterness to notce their team was 0-1 down with ten men at home and actually in need of some support. If you get behind them, you can sometimes win with ten men, like us last time out.

Not to mention the coins/bottles thrown at bellamy and suarez to name a few.

Disgrace to the city.

PST.

echo journos have flagged up just how many were doing hillsborough songs and gestures. sad, not least considering how many evertonians lost family members that day too.

and that's not to mention the incessant booing of the ref, suarez, at half-time etc. way to support your team as well that is. but it won't be their fault of course, it'll be atkinson, suarez, heysel, the waxing of the moon. . . .no everton defeat is ever everton's fault.

I don't really think booing the ref or players is worth mentioning but i have to say that i'm gobsmacked they'd sing songs about Hillsborough. Thats an immediate turfing out with a life ban in my book.

[StevieH]

I've noticed that there dosen't seem to be any mention of the behaviour of the Everton fans on saturday,too busy spouting their vile hatred,Hillsborough songs/gestures and bitterness to notce their team was 0-1 down with ten men at home and actually in need of some support. If you get behind them, you can sometimes win with ten men, like us last time out.

Not to mention the coins/bottles thrown at bellamy and suarez to name a few.

Disgrace to the city.

PST.

echo journos have flagged up just how many were doing hillsborough songs and gestures. sad, not least considering how many evertonians lost family members that day too.

and that's not to mention the incessant booing of the ref, suarez, at half-time etc. way to support your team as well that is. but it won't be their fault of course, it'll be atkinson, suarez, heysel, the waxing of the moon. . . .no everton defeat is ever everton's fault.

I don't really think booing the ref or players is worth mentioning but i have to say that i'm gobsmacked they'd sing songs about Hillsborough. Thats an immediate turfing out with a life ban in my book.

think it's worth mentioning in the context of supporting your team during a grudge derby match against your local rivals. you've gone down to ten men, harshly, but your keeper has just saved a penalty, it's still 0-0 and the entire ground just boos the team off at half-time? pisspoor in my book.

the hillsborough stuff is pretty gobsmacking though isn't it? evertonians joined liverpool fans in boycotting the s*n on merseyside because the rag's headline and the thatcher government's attitude to hillsborough was essentially an attack on the people of merseyside and even on football in general. and we were proud that they did. so while this stuff is probably a generational thing and a lack of understanding what happened it's still immensely disappointing.

[smokie36]

Well I saw the game and it seemed to me they were booing the ref at half time...not the players.

[StevieH]

Well I saw the game and it seemed to me they were booing the ref at half time...not the players.

of course they were booing the ref. as the team was leaving the pitch having just saved a peno and gone in level at half-time. but that hardly helps the team does it?

[smokie36]

Well I saw the game and it seemed to me they were booing the ref at half time...not the players.

of course they were booing the ref. as the team was leaving the pitch having just saved a peno and gone in level at half-time. but that hardly helps the team does it?

No but I could understand their frustration. Everton hadn't played badly and it was a very poor first half the ref had. Awarding the penalty didb't help matters.

[StevieH]

Well I saw the game and it seemed to me they were booing the ref at half time...not the players.

of course they were booing the ref. as the team was leaving the pitch having just saved a peno and gone in level at half-time. but that hardly helps the team does it?

No but I could understand their frustration. Everton hadn't played badly and it was a very poor first half the ref had. Awarding the penalty didb't help matters.

and it was 0-0 and they'd saved the penalty and they probably wanted their fans behind them and encouraging them and saluting their heroism against the odds etc. i don't think booing is ever a positive thing. don't reckon players think that either.

[smokie36]

Well I saw the game and it seemed to me they were booing the ref at half time...not the players.

of course they were booing the ref. as the team was leaving the pitch having just saved a peno and gone in level at half-time. but that hardly helps the team does it?

No but I could understand their frustration. Everton hadn't played badly and it was a very poor first half the ref had. Awarding the penalty didb't help matters.

and it was 0-0 and they'd saved the penalty and they probably wanted their fans behind them and encouraging them and saluting their heroism against the odds etc. i don't think booing is ever a positive thing. don't reckon players think that either.

I don't think the players felt it. The ref certainly did...he looked like he was caught in the headlights eery time he had to make a decision in the second half.

Really he shouldn't be reffing at this level. He's crap.

[StevieH]

I don't think the players felt it. The ref certainly did...he looked like he was caught in the headlights eery time he had to make a decision in the second half.

Really he shouldn't be reffing at this level. He's crap.

he's extremely consistent at making every match about him is atkinson. consistent bad performances should result in refs being relegated for a while, make them ref matches in lower divisions and get them out of the spotlight for a while.

[Abrak]

Kenny's no mug and probably knows Tottenham are a better side at this stage of the season and i doubt he's as confident of being fourth at christmas as Abrak is. Still nothing wrong with being confident i suppose.

Funnily enough I very much doubt that Kenny gives it a lot of thought.

In the greater scheme of things, even if Spurs gets 3rd or 4th this year, it is fairly irrelevant because we all know you dont have the revenues or the capital to sustain a consistent year in year out CL challenge. You have only been able to sustain a challenge over the last few years by being highly cash negative and leveraging your balance sheet from over 20m net cash to net debt of over 80m (which is pretty much as far as you can take it on a secured basis). And borrowing players from clubs you used to be competitive with or hiring 40 year old goal keepers is really just papering over the cracks. And dont continue talking about your new ground because only Man City can make 350m appear out of nowhere. If you beat us this year we will strengthen our squad and beat you next. It is the money that counts in the end.

It is far more important that we beat Arsenal, who have money but wont spend it. You guys are literally just a speed bump on the way forward.

[carmine]

Kenny's no mug and probably knows Tottenham are a better side at this stage of the season and i doubt he's as confident of being fourth at christmas as Abrak is. Still nothing wrong with being confident i suppose.

Funnily enough I very much doubt that Kenny gives it a lot of thought.

In the greater scheme of things, even if Spurs gets 3rd or 4th this year, it is fairly irrelevant because we all know you dont have the revenues or the capital to sustain a consistent year in year out CL challenge. You have only been able to sustain a challenge over the last few years by being highly cash negative and leveraging your balance sheet from over 20m net cash to net debt of over 80m (which is pretty much as far as you can take it on a secured basis). And borrowing players from clubs you used to be competitive with or hiring 40 year old goal keepers is really just papering over the cracks. And dont continue talking about your new ground because only Man City can make 350m appear out of nowhere. If you beat us this year we will strengthen our squad and beat you next. It is the money that counts in the end.

It is far more important that we beat Arsenal, who have money but wont spend it. You guys are literally just a speed bump on the way forward.

If you are tying to appeal to my sense of humour, well all i can say is, you have. I thought it was more about outplaying the other team and winning.

Is this some new Liverpool way of thinking, progressing from sabermetrics to relating the growth of a blade of grass to the peak years of a left back or something like that? What are you on about? Its about 22 players. a round ball and a knob in black and thats it!!

Look whats happening to the Red Sox!

[Abrak]

If you are tying to appeal to my sense of humour, well all i can say is, you have. I thought it was more about outplaying the other team and winning.

Is this some new Liverpool way of thinking, progressing from sabermetrics to relating the growth of a blade of grass to the peak years of a left back or something like that? What are you on about? Its about 22 players. a round ball and a knob in black and thats it!!

Look whats happening to the Red Sox!

It is more about whether you consider football as a battle or a war.

You lot were obsessed for the previous two seasons with your rivalry with Manchester City. All good clean fun but in the greater scheme of things you guys had lost before it had started. (and this year you are borrowing their cast offs.) If you really feel that it was all down to you being outplayed by a better team and who won more then so be it. I think it had more to do with money.

You clearly have the bragging rights to who is currently the better team as you thrashed us 4-0 at WHL. We will play you one more time this season for 3 points. If we get 70 points we will come at least 4th. The medium term progress of Liverpool simply isnt all about you guys (it is about 220 players and a lot of knobs). And you guys are fairly irrelevant in the long run because you dont have enough money (correction: your owner has pots of money but he is as tight as they come.)

[carmine]

If you are tying to appeal to my sense of humour, well all i can say is, you have. I thought it was more about outplaying the other team and winning.

Is this some new Liverpool way of thinking, progressing from sabermetrics to relating the growth of a blade of grass to the peak years of a left back or something like that? What are you on about? Its about 22 players. a round ball and a knob in black and thats it!!

Look whats happening to the Red Sox!

It is more about whether you consider football as a battle or a war.

You lot were obsessed for the previous two seasons with your rivalry with Manchester City. All good clean fun but in the greater scheme of things you guys had lost before it had started. (and this year you are borrowing their cast offs.) If you really feel that it was all down to you being outplayed by a better team and who won more then so be it. I think it had more to do with money.

You clearly have the bragging rights to who is currently the better team as you thrashed us 4-0 at WHL. We will play you one more time this season for 3 points. If we get 70 points we will come at least 4th. The medium term progress of Liverpool simply isnt all about you guys (it is about 220 players and a lot of knobs). And you guys are fairly irrelevant in the long run because you dont have enough money (correction: your owner has pots of money but he is as tight as they come.)

The moment you bring Man City into the arguement you don't really have one. They are a one off. The 4-0 was a one off game aswell so fairly irrelevent. I'm talking generally.

Seriously, how many of your players would get into our side, the one that played on sunday?

Don't get me wrong, good management is pivotal, and to have more cash to spend, that you usually do, helps but, unless you are spending like the top three do its not necesarily going to make that greater difference. Since you mention last season, the only reason we didn't qualify was the reason that every man and his mia noi knows. You might well beat us to fourth and at the end of the season i might well look at your team and think it a better one than ours on paper but not at this stage.

Why would you think 70 points is good enough? Purely based on what?

Edited October 4, 2011 by carmine

[Abrak]

The moment you bring Man City into the arguement you don't really have one. They are a one off. The 4-0 was a one off game aswell so fairly irrelevent. I'm talking generally.

Seriously, how many of your players would get into our side, the one that played on sunday?

Don't get me wrong, good management is pivotal, and to have more cash to spend, that you usually do, helps but, unless you are spending like the top three do its not necesarily going to make that greater difference. Since you mention last season, the only reason we didn't qualify was the reason that every man and his mia noi knows. You might well beat us to fourth and at the end of the season i might well look at your team and think it a better one than ours on paper but not at this stage.

Why would you think 70 points is good enough? Purely based on what?

Well Seriously.....

(1) 70 points is not a mathematical certainty - it is perfectly possible for 5 teams to achieve 70 points in a season. However it is not very likely. The highest number of points that a 5th place team has achieved I believe is 68 over the last 16 years or so of 38 x 3 matches. Any team that has achieved 70 points has come at least 4th. In fact Liverpool once came 4th with 58 points. Another simple rule of thumb that I believe equally applies is that you need to win 20 matches (in that I think that every team that has won 20 matches in a season has also come in the top 4). If you look at things from that statistical perspective, you didnt make 4th last year because you screwed up against the bottom ranked teams.

(2) I think your financial analysis is simply wrong. You basically say something along the lines that City doesnt count because they simply have obscene amounts of money (fair enough) but you can compete with Liverpool who just have a bit 'more' money. The reason this isnt in fact true is that while Spurs have achieved profit breakeven over the last 5 years they have been highly cash negative. You have had a net spend that is even higher than Liverpool's even after their recent spending spree. You used to be a cash rich company and you are now highly leveraged. There is absolutely no possibility that Spurs can spend as they have been doing over the last 5 years. And as you stop spending it will eat away at your competitiveness especially as, unlike Arsenal, you do not have the revenues to generate cash. You are borrowing players, recruiting oaps, being forced to raise the salaries of your best players - just being generally financially squeezed.

[StevieH]

Seriously, how many of your players would get into our side, the one that played on sunday?

ok i'll bite. reina, kelly, johnson, enrique, agger (if fit), gerrard, kuyt, suarez.

reina

kelly/johnson, king, agger, enrique

parker modric

kuyt gerrard suarez

adebayor

you could debate bale ahead of kuyt but you could also debate lucas ahead of parker really.

[sharecropper]

Been away (am still away) but catching up on this always entertaining thread.

Yeah totally inexcusable Hillsborough chanting, although I didn't hear it on my tele in Thailand. Was it a large section of the crowd? And what was the chant?

But for footy, unfortunately, many people seem to leave their brains behind.

I was back in the UK a year ago and went to meet a mate of mine, who's a big Man U fan. When his kids, aged 7 and 9 found I was from Liverpool, this Man U fan father told them to sing "that song" so these two kids started singing "in your Liverpool Slum" to me in a restaurant.

I looked at my mate - a usually intelligent bloke - and really pissed off, said - right in front of his kids - "do you really think it's appropriate to teach and encourage your kids to sing racist crap like that"?

He immediately saw that it wasn't.

Just bizarre, and iniexcusable. Same as racist boos and Munich crap.

[mrbojangles]

Looks like the ref was wrong. Rodwell has won his appeal against his red card.

[smokie36]

you could debate bale ahead of kuyt but you could also debate lucas ahead of parker really.

I like your sense of humour.

[smokie36]

Looks like the ref was wrong. Rodwell has won his appeal against his red card.

Can't the FA make them replay the game?

It would give them seasons worth of grievances that would....

[Jimjim]

Not too surprised Rodwell has won his appeal, though I think it's pretty rare, isn't it?

I was a bit surprised though to see we are playing Rangers in a friendly in the middle of the season:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/15164159.stm

However, I then realized it's a UEFA week and other English clubs will be playing in European competition while we watch it on TV. I think I've seen testimonials (Carra's last season was during the season, I think) played during a season but can't remember a friendly like this.

Since Adam and Wilson both played for Rangers of course they should get some game time.

On the subject of Danny Wilson, he is still young but he figures for Scotland and I think he could be a good player. Will he ever be a regular for Liverpool, though? Interesting that Coates has been on the bench ahead of him even with having little experience of British football.

[alfieconn]

Exactly,yes i said i might even stretch to 7th but you still never had the confidence in your team......did you?

top ten top eight?? how the mighty yidiods follow there team .....i suppose you feel you are top 4 material again now no?

bottler

Quite right about the no confidence as we were lacking a centre forward at the time, why would i think we are top 4 material now ?because we've beaten a few poor teams ?

[alfieconn]

Seriously, how many of your players would get into our side, the one that played on sunday?

ok i'll bite. reina, kelly, johnson, enrique, agger (if fit), gerrard, kuyt, suarez.

reina

kelly/johnson, king, agger, enrique

parker modric

kuyt gerrard suarez

adebayor

you could debate bale ahead of kuyt but you could also debate lucas ahead of parker really.

[carmine]

Seriously, how many of your players would get into our side, the one that played on sunday?

ok i'll bite. reina, kelly, johnson, enrique, agger (if fit), gerrard, kuyt, suarez.

reina

kelly/johnson, king, agger, enrique

parker modric

kuyt gerrard suarez

adebayor

you could debate bale ahead of kuyt but you could also debate lucas ahead of parker really.

You might be biting but i'm half serious because i think its interesting actually just how close a match we are. i would argue a strong case for Walker at right back and i don't think you can leave out Bale.

Either way. i think its going to run close, injuries playing a big factor, and what happens in the jan window. Both sides should be looking strong at christmas. I don't want to count out Arsenal yet but do you think he can sort out that defense before the gap gets too big? I'm not sure he can.