Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

i stopped at 'perhaps'. so you, like the UK media, are commenting and judging based on nothing whatsoever. that's of course the mark of a moron. do carry on.

[sharecropper]

i stopped at 'perhaps'. so you, like the UK media, are commenting and judging based on nothing whatsoever. that's of course the mark of a moron. do carry on.

But don't even you, chippier than most LFC posters, realise at some stage someone HAS to adjudicate on this, and it will then either go in your favour, or not.

If it went in your favour you wouldn't be posting here saying "they had no evidence to base that on. How outrageous", would you?

And if there is "nothing whatsoever" to judge it on, I wonder what those idiots judged it on, eh? Soon we will find out, and then you chippy lot can sue them.

And next time, have the courtesy of reading all of my post before replying to is, as I do yours.

[cardholder]

I don't think whether he is a racist or not, is the question here.

The question is what he said, and how he said it.

As far as I understand, quite a few people can read lips by watching video clips again and again.

Surely FA must have consulted someone able to do this.

Nothing less than laughable to see the LFC team dressed in those stupid t-shirts.

What are they? A bunch of 11 year olds? And even Suarez wearing one?

The respectful Daglish even endorsing it?

How the hell can they all be so sure whether he said it or not, and what exactly he said?

What if it really turns out FA was correct?

Then what?

And to top it, good old Barnes claims that ignorance indeed is an excuse and that we must remember that cultural differences must be taken into consideration.

I wish I could ask Barnes if he think it is ok for the cultural ignorance card to be used in other areas in the society as well.

At least Chelsea have wisely decided not to get involved in the circus of wearing shirts to support their team mate.

bless 'em. possibly because they know terry to be the sort of man who shags a team-mates missus and they don't actually like him eh.

No - more likely that they thought they might look like <deleted>. Like their Liverpool counterparts.

[Royspurs]

i stopped at 'perhaps'. so you, like the UK media, are commenting and judging based on nothing whatsoever. that's of course the mark of a moron. do carry on.

Stevie H:

Are you Oprah in disguise?

Fact: Suarez admitted to calling him Negrito

Fact: you don’t need to be a linguist to translate Negrito to English

Fact: N1gger is a racist term to use in England

Fact: Suarez has a responsibility to conduct himself appropriately in his adopted Country.

Fact: Liverpool is a worldwide brand and have a responsibility to teach their employees appropriate behavior & PR.

I currently live in Houston, here, amongst the African American community, it is acceptable for them to refer to each other as N1gger. Fact: it would be totally unacceptable for me (being Caucasian) to do so, if I did I would have no excuse for not knowing, I live in and respect their country.

Liverpool and Suarez should have accepted that he had made an unacceptable mistake (it’s obvious to most that this was not a mistake, but, a way to wind up an opponent to put him off his game) then should of apologized and this situation would have blown over much quicker and stamping out racism would have been one step closer.

[Thaddeus]

Liverpool and Suarez should have accepted that he had made an unacceptable mistake (it’s obvious to most that this was not a mistake, but, a way to wind up an opponent to put him off his game)

Was it?

Do you mind being called farang? a topic that raises its head with annoying regularity in the forum.

The answer to both those can be yes or no depending on not the word used but how it is used.

Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, neither do I, and the FA don't know either (which again proves what FA stands for) meaning the judgement is flawed and the penalty is unfair.

If there is anything to be learned from this little saga it is, don't talk to Evra at all, or he'll just go blubbing to his mummy.

[MrRed]

Liverpool and Suarez should have accepted that he had made an unacceptable mistake (it’s obvious to most that this was not a mistake, but, a way to wind up an opponent to put him off his game)

Was it?

Do you mind being called farang? a topic that raises its head with annoying regularity in the forum.

The answer to both those can be yes or no depending on not the word used but how it is used.

Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, neither do I, and the FA don't know either (which again proves what FA stands for) meaning the judgement is flawed and the penalty is unfair.

If there is anything to be learned from this little saga it is, don't talk to Evra at all, or he'll just go blubbing to his mummy.

Again..........In a Liverpool Man United game......do you think it would of been friendly?? get real he meant it,end of story.

"Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, "

It doesn't matter how he delivered it ,he did and he has been found guilty,you can try and wrap it up any way you want but you and others just make Liverpool the small club they really are.Anymore T-Shirts tomorrow? i doubt it lol.

[rixalex]

Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, neither do I, and the FA don't know either

If the FA has video footage, i would say it would be quite easy to get some indication of the way in which it was said, and the context. Wouldn't you?

[Royspurs]

Liverpool and Suarez should have accepted that he had made an unacceptable mistake (it’s obvious to most that this was not a mistake, but, a way to wind up an opponent to put him off his game)

Was it?

Do you mind being called farang? a topic that raises its head with annoying regularity in the forum.

The answer to both those can be yes or no depending on not the word used but how it is used.

Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, neither do I, and the FA don't know either (which again proves what FA stands for) meaning the judgement is flawed and the penalty is unfair.

If there is anything to be learned from this little saga it is, don't talk to Evra at all, or he'll just go blubbing to his mummy.

Again..........In a Liverpool Man United game......do you think it would of been friendly?? get real he meant it,end of story.

"Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, "

It doesn't matter how he delivered it ,he did and he has been found guilty,you can try and wrap it up any way you want but you and others just make Liverpool the small club they really are.Anymore T-Shirts tomorrow? i doubt it lol.

Thaddeus, it doesn't matter how he delivered it, the fact is he did and there was a complaint, so he exposes himself and his club, it's 2011 and that's not allowed anymore regardless of personal opinions.

Liverpool as a business need to understand that and stop acting like the local plumber who cant understand why the Playboy calendar needs to come down because the woman are complaining (I'm on the plumber's side BTW).

You can bet your life that behind the scenes the Liverpool HR/PR departments will be working overtime to ensure staff are better aware/disciplined in the future.

[smokie36]

Liverpool and Suarez should have accepted that he had made an unacceptable mistake (it’s obvious to most that this was not a mistake, but, a way to wind up an opponent to put him off his game)

Was it?

Do you mind being called farang? a topic that raises its head with annoying regularity in the forum.

The answer to both those can be yes or no depending on not the word used but how it is used.

Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, neither do I, and the FA don't know either (which again proves what FA stands for) meaning the judgement is flawed and the penalty is unfair.

If there is anything to be learned from this little saga it is, don't talk to Evra at all, or he'll just go blubbing to his mummy.

Again..........In a Liverpool Man United game......do you think it would of been friendly?? get real he meant it,end of story.

"Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, "

It doesn't matter how he delivered it ,he did and he has been found guilty,you can try and wrap it up any way you want but you and others just make Liverpool the small club they really are.Anymore T-Shirts tomorrow? i doubt it lol.

Again..........In a Liverpool Man United game......do you think it would of been friendly?? get real he meant it,end of story.

"Do you know if Suarez delivered the word with malice, sarcasm or ignorance..... no, you don't, "

It doesn't matter how he delivered it ,he did and he has been found guilty,you can try and wrap it up any way you want but you and others just make Liverpool the small club they really are.Anymore T-Shirts tomorrow? i doubt it lol.

You really are a bastard aren't you?

[Thaddeus]

You really are a bastard aren't you?

No comment..... apart from at least he isn't an only sing when you are winning supporter, like most of the rest of Man U fans who leave early and then don't turn up for the next game.

Ner ner ner ner ner nineteen............. took you long enough..

[smokie36]

You really are a bastard aren't you?

No comment..... apart from at least he isn't an only sing when you are winning supporter, like most of the rest of Man U fans who leave early and then don't turn up for the next game.

Ner ner ner ner ner nineteen............. took you long enough..

I know...its just well its Xmas...but then if the team have to train then surely we should keep at it. This punishing schedule eh?

[nellyp]

I have not read all the posts about Suarez on here (far too boring an undertaking), but will give my opinion. I do not understand how anybody can make a ruling on this case without any evidence. You can only go by the players statements, and both players admitted to using racial slurs. Both players should be punished, whether a complaint be made or not. I think this case will go to court and the sooner the better. You will then get a ruling on whether it is OK to use a word like Negrito (the assumed word that was used by Suarez) that is a foreign word that can be used in many ways, and Sudaka the word that Evra used that is only used in a derogatory way. This argument will roll on and on, it is obvious that whatever happens there will be a bitter taste in the mouth of most people who despise racism especially as the two players are from races that are minorities in this country. It appears on the face of it that the one player is from a much smaller minority and is being castigated because of this. Read this article for a South American view

The aim here is not to defend Suarez, who has built up a record of offences including gesturing to Fulham fans recently and even biting an opponent in the ear before he left the Netherlands. Instead, I will focus on the main question that has concerned me since a few important facts regarding what happened between these two players were published by Henry Winter in the Daily Telegraph on December 15.

My question is simple: Why was Luis Suarez charged while Patrice Evra was not?

There are two main reasons for this lack of consistency when it comes to tackling a crucial issue such as racism. Firstly, from the perspective of the FA, it may have seemed more logical to single out the player who made a reference to the other’s skin colour, thus demonstrating a very narrow understanding of what exactly constitutes racism. Secondly, the FA disciplinary panel may have chosen Suarez because he is a Latin American player, and thus probably an easier target.

For the FA it seems that any reference to a player’s skin colour is, regardless of the context, a form of racial abuse. Suarez is no saint but in the context of a conversation held in Spanish, the word “negro”, in its Spanish pronunciation, probably would have not borne a racist connotation by him or to any other Latin American since, according to the Real Diccionario de la Lengua Española, in some South American countries (including Uruguay), the word “negro” is commonly used to refer to partners and close friends.

It is true that Suarez should have known that he is not playing in Uruguay but in England. However, at the same time, the FA should be looking at educating and integrating foreign players who have recently arrived, instead of throwing the book at them as they have done with the Uruguayan.

Luis Suarez and Patrice Evra fight for the ball in the match which hit the headlines for all the wrong reasons. (Photo by Clive Brunskill/Getty Images)

More importantly, the FA may be missing the point that racial discrimination refers not only to someone’s skin colour, but also to race, descent, ethnicity and nationality. If, as Henry Winter and others have claimed, Evra told Suarez “don’t touch me, you South American” in a pejorative way, then he should have been charged right away, too. Abuse based on an individual’s skin colour is no worse than abuse based on an individual’s country of origin. In neither case does the individual have a choice; and, just for the record, Latin Americans have been discriminated against and abused throughout history, just as African and African-descendants have been.

In the United Kingdom, the Latin American community is a small one when compared other minorities. The voices of their members are not as loud and influential as those of their Asian and African counterparts. Thus, when subjected to discriminatory treatment, their capabilities to respond are more limited. There are several examples of this lack of muscle, especially in the media.

One infamous example springs to mind. Not long ago Jeremy Clarkson called Mexicans “lazy, feckless and flatulent” in an episode of Top Gear. When many of us complained, instead of apologizing, Clarkson responded with another racist rant claiming that the Mexicans did not have an Olympic team because “anyone who can run, jump, or swim is already across the border”.

The saddest part of the story is that Clarkson got away with it. Had he abused Pakistanis or Indians in a similar way, two of the largest groups of foreign nationals in the UK, the end of the story would have probably been much different. In the same way Clarkson did, Evra may get away with it, because to the FA, at least for now, being called “South American” or a “sudaca” in a pejorative way is not as serious as being called “negro”.

Latin American players have had a profound impact on English football for a few decades now. They enrich the spectacle that is football. They also come from places where Spanish and Portuguese are the main languages and where cultural attitudes and outlooks on the world are markedly different.

If England wants Latin American talents to keep coming its way, we also need to accept that we should teach these players what is and what is not correct here, instead of making them political scapegoats. More importantly, we need to protect these players against any sort of abuse based on race, color, ethnicity and nationality, regardless of where this abuse comes from. We should all be making a stand against racism - the FA, players, coaches and fans - but that stand has to be fair and apply equally to all those who use racist epithets on and off the pitch.

Manuel Barcia is a Senior Lecturer in Latin American Studies at the University of Leeds, England. He has written and published extensively on the history of race, ethnicity and slavery in Latin American and the Caribbean.

[MrRed]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Edited December 26, 2011 by MrRed

[mrbojangles]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Why does that matter Red? The article Is quite a good balanced view. Nelly didn't write the article.

[MrRed]

" I do not understand how anybody can make a ruling on this case without any evidence. "

I keep hearing the same thing! he was up before the FA panel QC an all..... so i think they would have evidence don't you.

[smokie36]

Anyone got a free link for this one?

Cheers!

[sharecropper]

Ouch - interesting statistic from the BBC report of the Blackburn game:

And for all the money Dalglish has lavished on his strike force, the grim statistics read the Reds have failed to score two goals at home since the victory against Wolves in September.

Luckily Abrak has schooled me into realising a player's transfer value is no reflection on his worth, as I bet you wouldn't get anywhere close to10 million for Carthorse Carrol in January, if you were selling, that is....

[carmine]

Ouch - interesting statistic from the BBC report of the Blackburn game:

And for all the money Dalglish has lavished on his strike force, the grim statistics read the Reds have failed to score two goals at home since the victory against Wolves in September.

Luckily Abrak has schooled me into realising a player's transfer value is no reflection on his worth, as I bet you wouldn't get anywhere close to10 million for Carthorse Carrol in January, if you were selling, that is....

He might not be worth 10m. I wonder how much Henderson is worth. Certainly nowhere near the 20m paid for him. He's really dog average.

[Jimjim]

I about wanted to rip apart this resort room after watching that result and the way we piled it on and piled it on and still couldn't score a goal, and again with two absolute fantastic chances to score just in the last 15 seconds.

We just cannot score goals!

fuc_king hell

so frustrated I was screaming obscenities left and right that last 15 minutes. Put it in the fuc_king net Reds!

[MrRed]

Hodgson is doing well with a bunch of average pro's.

[smokie36]

Hodgson is doing well with a bunch of average pro's.

So is King Kenny!

[MrRed]

Hodgson is doing well with a bunch of average pro's.

So is King Kenny!

What a save from the Bunn.

Carroll turning away from play was a classic,what a dud!

At least Stevie God is back.

King Kenny in his post match interview......i felt like slashing my wrists especially when he said we are still undefeated at home

[Abrak]

Its kind of irritating at the moment. We are kind of imbetween - not totally <deleted> but not that great either. A bit like purgatory. A subtle Colin Farrell inspired Spurs reference. Oh well, too much turkey at Xmas, I guess.

[nellyp]

Fed up with losing games we should win. Played well enough to win but can't get the ball in the net

[smokie36]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Fed up with losing games we should win. Played well enough to win but can't get the ball in the net

As we all suspected mrjinglebells...

[nellyp]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Liverpool, that's why I am reading the forum. I was tempted to have a look at the United forum but I was to busy doing anything else.

I thought the article was well written as a view by a Latin American on racism and how it is perceived by people. I agree with it, that if you are going to stamp it out then you have to attack all forms of racism. The thing about the evidence is that Suarez was shown no video by the panel and no witnesses came forward so unless the panel had evidence that was not revealed to Suarez then there was none. But I suppose we are speculating until the full details are released.

[nellyp]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Fed up with losing games we should win. Played well enough to win but can't get the ball in the net

As we all suspected mrjinglebells...

OK I don't get the jinglebells thing, but I'm new on hear so maybe I'll get it after reading more posts

[smokie36]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Liverpool, that's why I am reading the forum. I was tempted to have a look at the United forum but I was to busy doing anything else.

I thought the article was well written as a view by a Latin American on racism and how it is perceived by people. I agree with it, that if you are going to stamp it out then you have to attack all forms of racism. The thing about the evidence is that Suarez was shown no video by the panel and no witnesses came forward so unless the panel had evidence that was not revealed to Suarez then there was none. But I suppose we are speculating until the full details are released.

You're right from a punter's point of view. Interesting to note just how incensed Liverpool were by the decision though isn't it?

Kangaroo court imo.

[smokie36]

nelly?

What team do you follow?

Fed up with losing games we should win. Played well enough to win but can't get the ball in the net

As we all suspected mrjinglebells...

OK I don't get the jinglebells thing, but I'm new on hear so maybe I'll get it after reading more posts

Not aimed at you nelly.

[Jimjim]

We're 11th in the league for goals scored if my calculations were correct. The bottom two clubs have scored more than us, but obviously conceded far more.

Obviously our organized play and defense is keeping up where we are but with all the chances we get we just need to start scoring way more goals, and I think it can happen. Need better finishing, better final ball and a bit more luck as well.

5 penalties in all comps this season we've had this season and scored only one! That's got to be the worst percentage of any team in England...

We'll turn it around with the goals. Just incredibly frustrating, though.