Liverpool F.c.

[carmine]

Dalglish is not the answer that is plain to see from his comments as the manager yesterday after the defeat.

You may be right, but one thing i do know is, the loyalty and head in the sand mentality that we saw regarding most Liverpool fans' attitude to Rafa, will be nothing compared to KK. He could take them down and they would still not have a bad word to say about the man. Can't say he hasn't earnt that loyalty though, so don't blame the fans for feeling that way, but all i'm saying is, don't expect any sort of rational debate with Liverpool fans on the subject of their current manager.

I admired Dalglish as a player. Yes, he's earnt that loyalty, he's a club legend. But, and a big but imho. Is it a good idea to appoint a legend as manager (especially after so long out of management) because they are seldom reviewed in a logical way. After all, its King Kenny, he couldn't possibly be wrong. Fortunately, the team is having a good cup run and must be favourites to win it. Other than that, the teams moving sideways.

Just my thoughts

[MrRed]

If you are that good at statistics it must be tiring!

[alfieconn]

Painful stuff. Glad I didnt stay up to watch it.

Only just seen this.

[Abrak]

Painful stuff. Glad I didnt stay up to watch it.

Yes laughable.....I agrree.

Get screwed....

Or wait 3 hours and watch your team get screwed....

[bkkjames]

Expecting stevie to come along and blame the yanks for giving kenny all that money for carrol, henderson, downing, adam.....

[SantiSuk]

I stayed up and watched it (out of grim fascination). My other half knows better than to get amorous on Saturday and Sunday nights!

[Jimjim]

I was shocked by the performance. I was shocked by the lack of effort.

I was shocked Reo-Coker hates Bellamy. Ok, not really, but I have no idea about their past and what Bellamy had said in the past about Reo-Coker and couldn't find anything on it. I searched and searched and all I could find were stories about this last weekend. Needed something to distract me from that awful performance!

Obviously with a performance like this and only one win in our last 6 league games, people are going to question Kenny and our signings, etc. I think it gets to be a bit of an over-reaction, myself, so I won't join in with all that. It's just one game, and let's hope it's an anomaly. But it was pure crap from our team, for the first time this season. At least in other matches where we failed to score we showed more effort and conviction.

But our recent form to me, has shown we desperately miss Lucas and the cover he provides. We also miss his sure passing and somehow, without him we are not creating as many chances. I don't know the stats and perhaps Abrak could research this on his early Sunday mornings (since he doesn't even stay up to watch his own team Saturday nights ) but I think we've created less chances without Lucas around and we surely have got less points. We really miss him. We miss Suarez, too, but Lucas has been our main man for the last year, without a doubt.

Lucas rarely gives the ball away, letting attacks build up and create more chances, and he breaks up the other team's play, which means they have less chances. We've conceded more per game after his injury, too, I feel, but not entirely sure about that.

Anyway, let's hope the team were looking ahead to Wednesday and that can be their excuse, because they need to show up for this match and get us to our first cup final in a long, long time. I don't care it's the Carling Cup or the Milk Cup as so many like to call it in derision, well it's the Carling Cup now and while other clubs have bigger fish to fry this is a massive cup for us this season, unfortunately, because we haven't won a cup in 5 or 6 years now.

Fingers crossed for Wednesday, let's get another 1-0!

[JacknDanny]

I was shocked by the performance. I was shocked by the lack of effort.

I was shocked Reo-Coker hates Bellamy. Ok, not really, but I have no idea about their past and what Bellamy had said in the past about Reo-Coker and couldn't find anything on it. I searched and searched and all I could find were stories about this last weekend. Needed something to distract me from that awful performance!

Obviously with a performance like this and only one win in our last 6 league games, people are going to question Kenny and our signings, etc. I think it gets to be a bit of an over-reaction, myself, so I won't join in with all that. It's just one game, and let's hope it's an anomaly. But it was pure crap from our team, for the first time this season. At least in other matches where we failed to score we showed more effort and conviction.

But our recent form to me, has shown we desperately miss Lucas and the cover he provides. We also miss his sure passing and somehow, without him we are not creating as many chances. I don't know the stats and perhaps Abrak could research this on his early Sunday mornings (since he doesn't even stay up to watch his own team Saturday nights ) but I think we've created less chances without Lucas around and we surely have got less points. We really miss him. We miss Suarez, too, but Lucas has been our main man for the last year, without a doubt.

Lucas rarely gives the ball away, letting attacks build up and create more chances, and he breaks up the other team's play, which means they have less chances. We've conceded more per game after his injury, too, I feel, but not entirely sure about that.

Anyway, let's hope the team were looking ahead to Wednesday and that can be their excuse, because they need to show up for this match and get us to our first cup final in a long, long time. I don't care it's the Carling Cup or the Milk Cup as so many like to call it in derision, well it's the Carling Cup now and while other clubs have bigger fish to fry this is a massive cup for us this season, unfortunately, because we haven't won a cup in 5 or 6 years now.

Fingers crossed for Wednesday, let's get another 1-0!

Re Bellamy and Reo Coker..... They played together at West Ham.

One day Bellamy was asked about Kieran Dyer, by the press.

He told them he reminded him a little bit of Reo Coker, except Dyer could play football. ... True Story

[Abrak]

I was shocked by the performance. I was shocked by the lack of effort.

I was shocked Reo-Coker hates Bellamy. Ok, not really, but I have no idea about their past and what Bellamy had said in the past about Reo-Coker and couldn't find anything on it. I searched and searched and all I could find were stories about this last weekend. Needed something to distract me from that awful performance!

Obviously with a performance like this and only one win in our last 6 league games, people are going to question Kenny and our signings, etc. I think it gets to be a bit of an over-reaction, myself, so I won't join in with all that. It's just one game, and let's hope it's an anomaly. But it was pure crap from our team, for the first time this season. At least in other matches where we failed to score we showed more effort and conviction.

But our recent form to me, has shown we desperately miss Lucas and the cover he provides. We also miss his sure passing and somehow, without him we are not creating as many chances. I don't know the stats and perhaps Abrak could research this on his early Sunday mornings (since he doesn't even stay up to watch his own team Saturday nights ) but I think we've created less chances without Lucas around and we surely have got less points. We really miss him. We miss Suarez, too, but Lucas has been our main man for the last year, without a doubt.

Lucas rarely gives the ball away, letting attacks build up and create more chances, and he breaks up the other team's play, which means they have less chances. We've conceded more per game after his injury, too, I feel, but not entirely sure about that.

Anyway, let's hope the team were looking ahead to Wednesday and that can be their excuse, because they need to show up for this match and get us to our first cup final in a long, long time. I don't care it's the Carling Cup or the Milk Cup as so many like to call it in derision, well it's the Carling Cup now and while other clubs have bigger fish to fry this is a massive cup for us this season, unfortunately, because we haven't won a cup in 5 or 6 years now.

Fingers crossed for Wednesday, let's get another 1-0!

I basically agree with what you say.

What really stands out with Lucas is his defensive stats that are pretty much second to none. I am pretty sure our strong defensive record until recently although mostly due to the Agger/Skrtel partnership is a lot down to Lucas especially considering that both Johnson and Enrique are attack minded. Lucas has the highest average number of successful tackles per game of any player in the league (actually in all the major European leagues), for a midfielder his 15 ground duels per game (60%) success is exceptional and he loses possession on average once every 3 games (which is also exceptional and can only be equalled by the likes of Vidic.)

On the attacking side, he doesnt have a large number of 'created chances' because he sits too far back. He has by far the most passes and a very high completion % (86%) of a Liverpool player but that you would expect considering his position on the field. It isnt exceptional against some of the comparables in other teams. However if Lucas is missing and you say have Adam in his place (who had a 59% pass completion against Bolton) it is pretty clear you are not going to get far. The top 3 chance creators in the team are Suarez, Downing and Adam but if they dont get the ball it isnt going to happen.

We are definitely not creating anything like the chances as we were before. Say we had only 5 shots on target Bolton. I think this is where Suarez fits in. Suarez's stats are not spectacular. I think he may average more shots at goal per game than any other player! But he does create chances and he does score goals. And while Suarez might stats not be particularly brilliant in absolute terms, he does represent most of the creative and scoring threat that Liverpool have to offer. And without him we suffer.

[Jimjim]

I agree with you about Lucas Abrak but about Enrique, he under-performed against Bolton for sure. However, I think defensively he's very sound, even if he does get forward. If you look at the stats, he rarely lets someone get past him. Last year he had the best stat for this, with I think only allowing someone to dribble past him or something like 9 times total. That's why when Eagles got past him it was out of the ordinary.

Now he gets forward and could perhaps get caught out of position sometimes but he usually gets back, even so.

Bellamy and Enrique have been our best signings of the summer, without a doubt.

[Jimjim]

I hope we can get Spearing back and playing as although he's not as good as Lucas, he would take on that role with more commitment to defending than Gerrard or Adam.

[carmine]

I agree with you about Lucas Abrak but about Enrique, he under-performed against Bolton for sure. However, I think defensively he's very sound, even if he does get forward. If you look at the stats, he rarely lets someone get past him. Last year he had the best stat for this, with I think only allowing someone to dribble past him or something like 9 times total. That's why when Eagles got past him it was out of the ordinary.

Now he gets forward and could perhaps get caught out of position sometimes but he usually gets back, even so.

Bellamy and Enrique have been our best signings of the summer, without a doubt.

In the absense of Lucas and Suarez Enrique is your best player i'd say. He's an excellent defender.

[Abrak]

I agree with you about Lucas Abrak but about Enrique, he under-performed against Bolton for sure. However, I think defensively he's very sound, even if he does get forward. If you look at the stats, he rarely lets someone get past him. Last year he had the best stat for this, with I think only allowing someone to dribble past him or something like 9 times total. That's why when Eagles got past him it was out of the ordinary.

Now he gets forward and could perhaps get caught out of position sometimes but he usually gets back, even so.

Bellamy and Enrique have been our best signings of the summer, without a doubt.

Didnt mean to diss Enrique who has been truely excellent but just pointing out that both Enrique and Johnson are fairly 'attack orientated'. Arguably in Johnson case I will admit that he perhaps isnt the greatest defender unlike Enrique who does both well. I suspect though our strong defensive record is rather dependent on a good strong DM and I dont believe we would let 3 goals in against Bolton if Lucas was on the pitch.

The results are crap at the moment but I dont think it is really cause for some sort of internal mental breakdown. We were always rather dependent on Lucas and Suarez to get us near the top 4 and without them we shouldnt expect too much.

[Abrak]

Dalglish is not the answer that is plain to see from his comments as the manager yesterday after the defeat.

You may be right, but one thing i do know is, the loyalty and head in the sand mentality that we saw regarding most Liverpool fans' attitude to Rafa, will be nothing compared to KK. He could take them down and they would still not have a bad word to say about the man. Can't say he hasn't earnt that loyalty though, so don't blame the fans for feeling that way, but all i'm saying is, don't expect any sort of rational debate with Liverpool fans on the subject of their current manager.

Out of interest (not that I happen to agree with you) who do you think would make a better manager than Dalglish?

(I would prefer if you excluded Rafa for the sake of circular arguments (and also Hodgson for the sake of simply being irritating).)

[Abrak]

A really big match for us tonight. We have placed more emphasis on the cc than our competitors. Itarguably cost us Lucas against Chelsea and we have had good wins against Chelsea and City away

4th is looking like a long shot, so the cc would be a great win.

Best of luck with our diminished resources.

[rixalex]

A really big match for us tonight.

Big enough for you to bother staying up to watch it?

[rixalex]

Dalglish is not the answer that is plain to see from his comments as the manager yesterday after the defeat.

You may be right, but one thing i do know is, the loyalty and head in the sand mentality that we saw regarding most Liverpool fans' attitude to Rafa, will be nothing compared to KK. He could take them down and they would still not have a bad word to say about the man. Can't say he hasn't earnt that loyalty though, so don't blame the fans for feeling that way, but all i'm saying is, don't expect any sort of rational debate with Liverpool fans on the subject of their current manager.

Out of interest (not that I happen to agree with you) who do you think would make a better manager than Dalglish?

(I would prefer if you excluded Rafa for the sake of circular arguments (and also Hodgson for the sake of simply being irritating).)

All i said Abrak was, don't expect Liverpool fans to be able to discuss KK's managing skills without their adoration for the man (deserved adoration) affecting their judgement. I wasn't calling for KK to be sacked - i don't think he should be. Now that he is in the job, for good or for bad, he should be given time. The club, like all clubs, would benefit from some stability and this business of changing the manager the minute results don't start going your way, is in my opinion daft and counter-productive - not to mention darn expensive.

[MrRed]

A really big match for us tonight. We have placed more emphasis on the cc than our competitors. Itarguably cost us Lucas against Chelsea and we have had good wins against Chelsea and City away

4th is looking like a long shot, so the cc would be a great win.

Best of luck with our diminished resources.

What diminished resources would they be then Abrak? Saurez Lucas.......

Who else?

50 million on the bench again! more like diminished responsibilities my friend.

Edited January 26, 2012 by MrRed

[Abrak]

I woke up at 3.00am to watch the CC semi-final - which is something of a major sacrifice on my behalf. Actually it wasnt too bad and reminded of matches several years back when Liverpool used to compete in a tournament known as the Champions League.

It was a pretty good match. I am sure that City feel a little hard done by, by the penalty for handball. The defender had his arm raised which is asking for trouble but I suspect it wouldnt have been given 80% of the time. Still City were pretty lucky to beat Pepe with a 30 yard speculative shot from outside the area. In fact Pepe had to do exactly 3 things the entire match - two of which were picking the ball out of his own net. 12 corner kicks to 2. 16(13) shots to City's 8(6).

The other noticeable thing was the absence of Carroll (he came on in the 89th minute.) If Kenny isnt giving him game time when Suarez is suspended, his prospects dont look too bright. Unfortunately the whole team does tend to function better with him off the pitch. Bellamy was superb and the backs kept things pretty tight.

[carmine]

I woke up at 3.00am to watch the CC semi-final - which is something of a major sacrifice on my behalf. Actually it wasnt too bad and reminded of matches several years back when Liverpool used to compete in a tournament known as the Champions League.

It was a pretty good match. I am sure that City feel a little hard done by, by the penalty for handball. The defender had his arm raised which is asking for trouble but I suspect it wouldnt have been given 80% of the time. Still City were pretty lucky to beat Pepe with a 30 yard speculative shot from outside the area. In fact Pepe had to do exactly 3 things the entire match - two of which were picking the ball out of his own net. 12 corner kicks to 2. 16(13) shots to City's 8(6).

The other noticeable thing was the absence of Carroll (he came on in the 89th minute.) If Kenny isnt giving him game time when Suarez is suspended, his prospects dont look too bright. Unfortunately the whole team does tend to function better with him off the pitch. Bellamy was superb and the backs kept things pretty tight.

Its quite clear to me that Dalglish has lost patience with Carroll. You are a better team without him. Bellamy does seem to be the inspiration upfront and i've always rated the gobby little g*t!

The penalty awarded to you though was ridiculous. Good luck in the final. I hope you win.

[SantiSuk]

Congrats you Reds. Now don't go and blow it by underestimating inferior opposition at Wembley now will you?

Ha ha Abrak - we'll be checking you stay up for every game for the rest of the season!

Edited January 26, 2012 by SantiSuk

[Abrak]

I woke up at 3.00am to watch the CC semi-final - which is something of a major sacrifice on my behalf. Actually it wasnt too bad and reminded of matches several years back when Liverpool used to compete in a tournament known as the Champions League.

It was a pretty good match. I am sure that City feel a little hard done by, by the penalty for handball. The defender had his arm raised which is asking for trouble but I suspect it wouldnt have been given 80% of the time. Still City were pretty lucky to beat Pepe with a 30 yard speculative shot from outside the area. In fact Pepe had to do exactly 3 things the entire match - two of which were picking the ball out of his own net. 12 corner kicks to 2. 16(13) shots to City's 8(6).

The other noticeable thing was the absence of Carroll (he came on in the 89th minute.) If Kenny isnt giving him game time when Suarez is suspended, his prospects dont look too bright. Unfortunately the whole team does tend to function better with him off the pitch. Bellamy was superb and the backs kept things pretty tight.

Its quite clear to me that Dalglish has lost patience with Carroll. You are a better team without him. Bellamy does seem to be the inspiration upfront and i've always rated the gobby little g*t!

The penalty awarded to you though was ridiculous. Good luck in the final. I hope you win.

One of the problems with Carroll, as I see it, is other players tend to play badly around him. Kuyt, for instance, who has been pretty poor most of the season had an excellent game and played far more like he was at the end of last season.

Carroll seems to be in the same position as Torres to some extent. People say he needs games to come good. However, Einstein said the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

[carmine]

I woke up at 3.00am to watch the CC semi-final - which is something of a major sacrifice on my behalf. Actually it wasnt too bad and reminded of matches several years back when Liverpool used to compete in a tournament known as the Champions League.

It was a pretty good match. I am sure that City feel a little hard done by, by the penalty for handball. The defender had his arm raised which is asking for trouble but I suspect it wouldnt have been given 80% of the time. Still City were pretty lucky to beat Pepe with a 30 yard speculative shot from outside the area. In fact Pepe had to do exactly 3 things the entire match - two of which were picking the ball out of his own net. 12 corner kicks to 2. 16(13) shots to City's 8(6).

The other noticeable thing was the absence of Carroll (he came on in the 89th minute.) If Kenny isnt giving him game time when Suarez is suspended, his prospects dont look too bright. Unfortunately the whole team does tend to function better with him off the pitch. Bellamy was superb and the backs kept things pretty tight.

Its quite clear to me that Dalglish has lost patience with Carroll. You are a better team without him. Bellamy does seem to be the inspiration upfront and i've always rated the gobby little g*t!

The penalty awarded to you though was ridiculous. Good luck in the final. I hope you win.

One of the problems with Carroll, as I see it, is other players tend to play badly around him. Kuyt, for instance, who has been pretty poor most of the season had an excellent game and played far more like he was at the end of last season.

Carroll seems to be in the same position as Torres to some extent. People say he needs games to come good. However, Einstein said the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I actually feel sorry for the lad. He wasn't proven at this level. Then some buffoon decides to pay an asking price that Mike Ashley couldn't ever concieve he'd get and there the lad is, labelled as a soon to be world class player.

Einsteins definition is ofcourse correct but at the end of the day why doesn't someone ask Damien Comelli why he felt it prudent to pay 35m for a 10m forward?

Why is Andy Carroll getting the blame? I'm sure he thought <deleted> are they doing paying that for me!!

[rixalex]

Why is Andy Carroll getting the blame? I'm sure he thought <deleted> are they doing paying that for me!!

I think you underestimate the size of most footballers egos - especially strikers. Bet he thought, "yeah, 35m, confirmation that i'm shit hot like i've been telling everyone all along". Could be wrong. Could be one of the rare modest strikers that exist in the world... rare like rocking horse shit.

[Abrak]

I woke up at 3.00am to watch the CC semi-final - which is something of a major sacrifice on my behalf. Actually it wasnt too bad and reminded of matches several years back when Liverpool used to compete in a tournament known as the Champions League.

It was a pretty good match. I am sure that City feel a little hard done by, by the penalty for handball. The defender had his arm raised which is asking for trouble but I suspect it wouldnt have been given 80% of the time. Still City were pretty lucky to beat Pepe with a 30 yard speculative shot from outside the area. In fact Pepe had to do exactly 3 things the entire match - two of which were picking the ball out of his own net. 12 corner kicks to 2. 16(13) shots to City's 8(6).

The other noticeable thing was the absence of Carroll (he came on in the 89th minute.) If Kenny isnt giving him game time when Suarez is suspended, his prospects dont look too bright. Unfortunately the whole team does tend to function better with him off the pitch. Bellamy was superb and the backs kept things pretty tight.

Its quite clear to me that Dalglish has lost patience with Carroll. You are a better team without him. Bellamy does seem to be the inspiration upfront and i've always rated the gobby little g*t!

The penalty awarded to you though was ridiculous. Good luck in the final. I hope you win.

One of the problems with Carroll, as I see it, is other players tend to play badly around him. Kuyt, for instance, who has been pretty poor most of the season had an excellent game and played far more like he was at the end of last season.

Carroll seems to be in the same position as Torres to some extent. People say he needs games to come good. However, Einstein said the definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.

I actually feel sorry for the lad. He wasn't proven at this level. Then some buffoon decides to pay an asking price that Mike Ashley couldn't ever concieve he'd get and there the lad is, labelled as a soon to be world class player.

Einsteins definition is ofcourse correct but at the end of the day why doesn't someone ask Damien Comelli why he felt it prudent to pay 35m for a 10m forward?

Why is Andy Carroll getting the blame? I'm sure he thought <deleted> are they doing paying that for me!!

You are totally right about Andy Carroll. It is not his job to prove he is worth the price that someone paid for him. He has been disappoint though and maybe the price affected his development. I am 90% sure that the price was actually Henry's decision. It is part of his trading philosophy discipline that you can only sell a CF if you buy a replacement. I think Liverpool were reasonably keen to sell Torres because of both the price and his injuries. I suspect on the last day of the window they were going to be forced to overpay for a replacement but it appears they didnt choose well.

[carmine]

The whole Torres/Carroll business was drive by the disgraceful behaviour of Torres handing in a transfer request at the death. With Chelsea being stupid and desperate enough to pay 5om it opened the door for Ashley to take the piss. But i think even he was gobsmacked you paid 35m. However as i said before, you've gained on Suarez so swings and roundabouts.

Watch this space for that little sh*t Modric having us over in the summer. I really hope Levy takes the 50m we might just get offered. Chelsea i believe will be that desperate.

[rixalex]

Watch this space for that little sh*t Modric having us over in the summer. I really hope Levy takes the 50m we might just get offered. Chelsea i believe will be that desperate.

I don't see the little shit as you call him, being worth 50m, not right now, and particularly not if he continues to make it clear that he wants away. 40m tops i reckon.

City might be able to afford to not sell the "shit" they are lumbered with, at least until they deem an offer fair, but Spurs can't and will get low-balled this Summer. 30 or 35m is what i would expect.

[carmine]

Watch this space for that little sh*t Modric having us over in the summer. I really hope Levy takes the 50m we might just get offered. Chelsea i believe will be that desperate.

I don't see the little shit as you call him, being worth 50m, not right now, and particularly not if he continues to make it clear that he wants away. 40m tops i reckon.

City might be able to afford to not sell the "shit" they are lumbered with, at least until they deem an offer fair, but Spurs can't and will get low-balled this Summer. 30 or 35m is what i would expect.

I'm not so sure rix. Don't forget he has a six year contract. I could however see a deal being done with Chelsea if Sturridge was included in a deal

[rixalex]

Watch this space for that little sh*t Modric having us over in the summer. I really hope Levy takes the 50m we might just get offered. Chelsea i believe will be that desperate.

I don't see the little shit as you call him, being worth 50m, not right now, and particularly not if he continues to make it clear that he wants away. 40m tops i reckon.

City might be able to afford to not sell the "shit" they are lumbered with, at least until they deem an offer fair, but Spurs can't and will get low-balled this Summer. 30 or 35m is what i would expect.

I'm not so sure rix. Don't forget he has a six year contract. I could however see a deal being done with Chelsea if Sturridge was included in a deal

OK. And how would you feel about that?

[carmine]

Watch this space for that little sh*t Modric having us over in the summer. I really hope Levy takes the 50m we might just get offered. Chelsea i believe will be that desperate.

I don't see the little shit as you call him, being worth 50m, not right now, and particularly not if he continues to make it clear that he wants away. 40m tops i reckon.

City might be able to afford to not sell the "shit" they are lumbered with, at least until they deem an offer fair, but Spurs can't and will get low-balled this Summer. 30 or 35m is what i would expect.

I'm not so sure rix. Don't forget he has a six year contract. I could however see a deal being done with Chelsea if Sturridge was included in a deal

OK. And how would you feel about that?

Well that depends on who would replace him. Huddlestone is a far better long passer but Modric threads the ball through. There doesn't seem to be many Modric style players around at the moment so its a difficult one.

I'm just really talking from the prospective that i loathe having a mercenary in the dressing room that is destabalising our team at every t/f window. And disrespects the club in his manner of doing so.