Liverpool F.c.

[Abrak]

I am certainly one for patience.

1) We are a relatively new team of players. It should be remembered it took City a couple of years to turn a team of superstars from a good team into a top team. It doesnt happen overnight.

2) Looking at the League is slightly misleading. Look at what the team has achieved in the cups against the likes of City, Chelsea, and United. If you bear this in mind our overall results are nothing like as bad.

3) Although, we have made no progress in the League, we are averaging 55% possession against 51.6% last year. You have to feel that 57.8% possession for 9 home games that you draw 8 and lose 1 is a pretty poor and a pretty unlucky return.

We are certainly not good enough but I dont think things are quite as bad as they seem.

Stats on possession being a positive are totally overated. Its about what you do with it isn't it. Rather like stats on the number of assists a player has. You can set a striker with a perfect ball but theres no assist given if the striker can't bury the chance.

Anyway back to your original point. Take Napoli for example. They'll give you all the possession you want because their game is all about sucking the other team in and then hitting back with lightning breaks. For this reason i doubt if Chelsea will be able to do much in their return leg though i might ofcourse be wrong.

I agree with you entirely. It is not the amount of possession you have it is about the 'quality' of the possession. When City beat us 3-0 we had 64% of possession. And when we beat them we had less than 50%. Dalglish had 50.6% possession in the second half of last season while Hodgson had 53.2% and we all know who was most successful.

The disadvantage of having very high possession stats against lesser teams is that you usually face a wall of 10 players defending the goal. I actually believe LFC's possession stats are too high. Still the advantage of being able to gain such high possession is that it gives you the ability to 'cede' possession to the opposition when you choose, perhaps stretch their resources and then counter attack more effectively.

But you may simply be right, Liverpool are a team that are gaining possession at the expense of a declining quality of possession.

[SantiSuk]

Not managed 3 defeats on the trott in 5+ years I believe. Anyway we were dogshite today and deserved nothing. I don't think Kenny even knows what his best team is. I think he's had a fair crack and in the summer he should move aside. He came in to steady the ship and he done that but he should have moved over then in the summer. The problem is Kenny has been out of the game too long, he isn't up to date in terms of tactics and it shows week in week out. We are essentially playing the same brand of football as he had Newcastle playing, negative tactics with no real purpose.

Tactics aside he has also wasted so much money in the summer. It beggars belief we had more points this time last year.

Not sure who we should get in tbh. Heart says Rafa but id like us to maybe get in AVB. He's a young guy with good ideas who was like so many others (including players) wasted at Chelsea.

Haha now that's a knee jerk reaction, what nonsense!

Poor display today and yet with the same player as last week were we played Arsenal off the pitch....but to suggest Kenny should go already???

Anyway all opinions I suppose

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

It's that old Liverpool supporters weakness showing through again - selective and enhanced memory. Can I please remind you that you played fantastic football (for once) in the first half but certainly no better than us in the second half. And of course you couldn't score for toffee. Liverpool nil out of 15 shots on goal. Van Persie Arsenal 2 from 3. If that's playing another team off the pitch, well I'll let you'se carry on inhabiting your own little world.

Anyway all opinions I suppose

[Abrak]

Not managed 3 defeats on the trott in 5+ years I believe. Anyway we were dogshite today and deserved nothing. I don't think Kenny even knows what his best team is. I think he's had a fair crack and in the summer he should move aside. He came in to steady the ship and he done that but he should have moved over then in the summer. The problem is Kenny has been out of the game too long, he isn't up to date in terms of tactics and it shows week in week out. We are essentially playing the same brand of football as he had Newcastle playing, negative tactics with no real purpose.

Tactics aside he has also wasted so much money in the summer. It beggars belief we had more points this time last year.

Not sure who we should get in tbh. Heart says Rafa but id like us to maybe get in AVB. He's a young guy with good ideas who was like so many others (including players) wasted at Chelsea.

Haha now that's a knee jerk reaction, what nonsense!

Poor display today and yet with the same player as last week were we played Arsenal off the pitch....but to suggest Kenny should go already???

Anyway all opinions I suppose

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

It's that old Liverpool supporters weakness showing through again - selective and enhanced memory. Can I please remind you that you played fantastic football (for once) in the first half but certainly no better than us in the second half. And of course you couldn't score for toffee. Liverpool nil out of 15 shots on goal. Van Persie Arsenal 2 from 3. If that's playing another team off the pitch, well I'll let you'se carry on inhabiting your own little world.

Anyway all opinions I suppose

Well not quite.

Goal attempts LFC 12, Arsenal 10

On target LFC 4, Arsenal 7

Territory LFC 56%, Arsenal 44%

Passes final 3rd, LFC 134, Arsenal 79

Corners LFC 12, Arsenal 0

So clearly we couldnt score for a toffee as you rightly point out but ....errr.... we did sort of dominate the match although I will readily admit that scoring seems to be a rather important part of winning the game. Opta stats.

[Jimjim]

I about tore apart my living room after that match. We sucked. Horrible pitch too.

[Jimjim]

Not managed 3 defeats on the trott in 5+ years I believe. Anyway we were dogshite today and deserved nothing. I don't think Kenny even knows what his best team is. I think he's had a fair crack and in the summer he should move aside. He came in to steady the ship and he done that but he should have moved over then in the summer. The problem is Kenny has been out of the game too long, he isn't up to date in terms of tactics and it shows week in week out. We are essentially playing the same brand of football as he had Newcastle playing, negative tactics with no real purpose.

Tactics aside he has also wasted so much money in the summer. It beggars belief we had more points this time last year.

Not sure who we should get in tbh. Heart says Rafa but id like us to maybe get in AVB. He's a young guy with good ideas who was like so many others (including players) wasted at Chelsea.

Haha now that's a knee jerk reaction, what nonsense!

Poor display today and yet with the same player as last week were we played Arsenal off the pitch....but to suggest Kenny should go already???

Anyway all opinions I suppose

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

It's that old Liverpool supporters weakness showing through again - selective and enhanced memory. Can I please remind you that you played fantastic football (for once) in the first half but certainly no better than us in the second half. And of course you couldn't score for toffee. Liverpool nil out of 15 shots on goal. Van Persie Arsenal 2 from 3. If that's playing another team off the pitch, well I'll let you'se carry on inhabiting your own little world.

Anyway all opinions I suppose

And what about your selective memory?

Wenger and Van Persie both said Liverpool should have won. Obviously the game is about goals scored and not chances created, but except for scoring goals (fuc_king obvious), we totally dominated you, so get off it.

[wellred]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

[smokie36]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

I believe I said somewhere on here last week that you're squad is the third best in the Premiership at the moment. I stand by that. Kenny has done well and should get another season at least to fine tune things.

Your attitude is way off where it should be I'm afraid. Or right where it should be...depends on your point of view.

Edit: You have too quickly forgotten the bench before he arrived. If you do sack him I'd want him to sort that area out for us. In seriousness though you were a mess and look a good unit now...bit of tweaking and you'll be there or abouts next year.

Edited March 11, 2012 by smokie36

[carmine]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

Whose signings?

If you are referring to the over priced mediocrity that is Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing wasn't that the handywork of Damien Comolli?

[Abrak]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

This we spent 100m line last season is a little misleading. The fact is that this season, the team has had to cope without Torres or Gerrard who were the team in the previous season.

We also need to bear in mind that Dalglish is without Agger Johnson Leiva as well as Gerrard.

Finally the team has reached a rather awkward stage in the League. We are not going to make top 4 and we are not going to get relegated, so it is pretty hard to get too excited by the League. Hence the FA cup should attract more passion.

[carmine]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

This we spent 100m line last season is a little misleading. The fact is that this season, the team has had to cope without Torres or Gerrard who were the team in the previous season.

We also need to bear in mind that Dalglish is without Agger Johnson Leiva as well as Gerrard.

Finally the team has reached a rather awkward stage in the League. We are not going to make top 4 and we are not going to get relegated, so it is pretty hard to get too excited by the League. Hence the FA cup should attract more passion.

Good points there abrak and remember he's also been without Lucas. I'm also fairly confident if Gerard had been playing regularily you would have seen more goals from the likes of Suarez.

[Abrak]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

Whose signings?

If you are referring to the over priced mediocrity that is Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing wasn't that the handywork of Damien Comolli?

The thing that annoys me the most about Comolli is that he always refers to LFC as a 'project' as in 'there are a lot of big name players who are very interested in joining our project.' Now the last manager who referred to managing a club as a 'project' came from Chelsea and his 3 year project lasted precisely 256 days.

[carmine]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

Whose signings?

If you are referring to the over priced mediocrity that is Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing wasn't that the handywork of Damien Comolli?

The thing that annoys me the most about Comolli is that he always refers to LFC as a 'project' as in 'there are a lot of big name players who are very interested in joining our project.' Now the last manager who referred to managing a club as a 'project' came from Chelsea and his 3 year project lasted precisely 256 days.

It almost seems like a term you use to make people think you are smarter than you really are and know a few things they don't! Anyway, personally i feel LFC would be far better off if Dalglish was making the signings because i have a sneaking feeling he knows a good player when he sees one.

[Abrak]

Useless opta stat alert that I read on another website. If the League had started on January 1st the bottom 3 teams would be Liverpool, QPR (well done Hughes) and Wolves. And Sunderland would be 3rd (I looked that one up myself).

[Jimjim]

Yep, Hughes hasn't turned around QPR but in some cases been unlucky. Head-case Cisse getting a nonsense red card, his other new player getting a red card in a different game, and that "goal" on Saturday that was well over the line but was missed by both the referee and the assistant.

Anyway, this isn't the QPR thread.

We need a real kick up the ass, we've been shocking in the league as far as results, and hopefully the derby is exactly what we need. Either that or I'll be tearing up my living room again. C'mon lads!

Edited March 13, 2012 by Jimjim

[Jimjim]

Bottom line is we spent 100mil quid since last season and if Everton beat us they go above us. Kenny's singings have been terrible and there doesn't seem to be any consistensy with the selections either. The team needs ripping up again imo.

Whose signings?

If you are referring to the over priced mediocrity that is Carroll, Henderson, Adam and Downing wasn't that the handywork of Damien Comolli?

The thing that annoys me the most about Comolli is that he always refers to LFC as a 'project' as in 'there are a lot of big name players who are very interested in joining our project.' Now the last manager who referred to managing a club as a 'project' came from Chelsea and his 3 year project lasted precisely 256 days.

It almost seems like a term you use to make people think you are smarter than you really are and know a few things they don't! Anyway, personally i feel LFC would be far better off if Dalglish was making the signings because i have a sneaking feeling he knows a good player when he sees one.

I don't think Liverpool would sign a player unless Kenny gave the ok. Comolli himself said that's how it works. They have a lot of players in mind, and then he discusses with Kenny if it's yes or no to go after certain players. If Kenny says no, they don't go after that player. They also rate signings as 1st choice, 2nd choice, 3rd choice. If they can't get 1st choice they move on to the next, etc. So I think Kenny takes responsibility for the signings, ultimately, as he should.

[sharecropper]

I don't think Liverpool would sign a player unless Kenny gave the ok. Comolli himself said that's how it works. They have a lot of players in mind, and then he discusses with Kenny if it's yes or no to go after certain players. If Kenny says no, they don't go after that player. They also rate signings as 1st choice, 2nd choice, 3rd choice. If they can't get 1st choice they move on to the next, etc. So I think Kenny takes responsibility for the signings, ultimately, as he should.

Let's face it, they haven't exactly shone together in the transfer market. Roy was doing about as well, for a lot less money wasted.

By the way, anyone know if any bars will be showing the whole game tonight (as opposed to getting chucked out at half time or something) in Pattaya or Jomtien?

[Abrak]

Sometimes I talk about match equivalent data. A table shows time equivalent data scores after say 19 matches by time. Match equivalent data of 19 matches shows the scores relative to the equivalent matches in the previous year. So you compare Man U away result with Man U away result of the previous year. The idea is that you remove the bias where a whole load of tough fixtures are fitted into a particular time period etc..

Anyway I was looking at the match equivalent data for Liverpool and it through up a very strange result....

Liverpool have played 27 matches in the League.

KD has scored 25 points this year (3 less than last year) from his 13 match equivalent games against his own 13 games last year.

KD has scored 14 points this year (1 less than last year) from 14 match equivalent games against Hodgsons 14 games last year.

Perhaps if that sounds complicated it is perhaps easier to state that KD has average 1 point a game in Hodgson's match equivalent games which is basically relegation form. (He has scored almost 2 points a game against the same teams he played last year.)

What that implicitly implies is that Hodgson basically had to play a much harder fixture list than Kenny did. Kenny has not managed to get more points out of the same games as Hodgson. It implies he managed to score more points than Hodgson by playing easier fixtures.

Now personally I dont think there was as much bias in the fixtures as the stats seem to imply but it is interesting reading in any case.

But it is strange none the less that KD is actually getting less points (well 1 less point to be exact) out of the same fixtures as Hodgson.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Abrak

[MrRed]

"But it is strange none the less that KD is actually getting less points (well 1 less point to be exact) out of the same fixtures as Hodgson. "

But he is King Kenny and all Liverpuddleians love him.....so who cares eh Stevie?

How many goals has Carroll and Suarez scored the deadly duo indeed! a defeat at woodison will be nice ....never mind a Carling cup is good season

[Abrak]

"But it is strange none the less that KD is actually getting less points (well 1 less point to be exact) out of the same fixtures as Hodgson. "

But he is King Kenny and all Liverpuddleians love him.....so who cares eh Stevie?

How many goals has Carroll and Suarez scored the deadly duo indeed! a defeat at woodison will be nice ....never mind a Carling cup is good season

Although I love Kenny I do care deeply that we come at least 8th in the League and it is a little too close for comfort at the moment. We do have a game in hand and an average to easyish run in so it should be probable if the players get their finger out.

BTW statistically the chances of us losing at Woodison tonight is exactly zero.

[Devil]

Easy win, great individual performance from the Captain and good team effort and display all round. Kenny set up perfectly tonight.

Two great teams in Liverpool...

1.Liverpool

2. Liverpool Reserves.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[smokie36]

Good win that for you. Gerrard/Suarez linked well!

[carmine]

Easy win, great individual performance from the Captain and good team effort and display all round. Kenny set up perfectly tonight.

Two great teams in Liverpool...

1.Liverpool

2. Liverpool Reserves.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Bless.......you forgot to add "made up for Kenny"

Edited March 14, 2012 by carmine

[StevieH]

carroll looked really good as well again, linking up with gerrard and suarez. be a different story this season if we'd been able to field those three together on a more regular basis.

enjoyable that. everton wives no doubt still at this moment running for their lives.

[Devil]

carroll looked really good as well again, linking up with gerrard and suarez. be a different story this season if we'd been able to field those three together on a more regular basis.

enjoyable that. everton wives no doubt still at this moment running for their lives.

Yeah he did play well, very pleased for the lad. Hes certainly been working on other parts to his game and dare I say starting to look like a Liverpool player bit by bit.

Ok he's not scoring goals but you notice if his first few touches in a game are good and he wins a few Ariel battles he seems to loosen up and get involved much more. Whats impressed me when he has played of late is how effective he can be when he wins the first header and flicks it on to a team mate. And players now seem to support more with runs anticipating he will win the header and look for the knock down. Where as before I felt some of our midfield were guilty of not making a run of him.

Spearing impressed me again. I still think he can be our main CDM even when Lucas is back. When Jay keeps it simple it gives Gerrard freedom to push forward to deadly effect.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[StevieH]

Spearing impressed me again. I still think he can be our main CDM even when Lucas is back. When Jay keeps it simple it gives Gerrard freedom to push forward to deadly effect.

think jay does a reasonable job but he's no lucas. doesn't read the game as well or cover his fullbacks as instinctively as lucas does for me. we've really missed lucas this season. we've missed finishing off chances more though.

still, blue half of the city goes to work in a foul one this morning. happy days.

[carmine]

carroll looked really good as well again, linking up with gerrard and suarez. be a different story this season if we'd been able to field those three together on a more regular basis.

enjoyable that. everton wives no doubt still at this moment running for their lives.

Yeah he did play well, very pleased for the lad. Hes certainly been working on other parts to his game and dare I say starting to look like a Liverpool player bit by bit.

Ok he's not scoring goals but you notice if his first few touches in a game are good and he wins a few Ariel battles he seems to loosen up and get involved much more. Whats impressed me when he has played of late is how effective he can be when he wins the first header and flicks it on to a team mate. And players now seem to support more with runs anticipating he will win the header and look for the knock down. Where as before I felt some of our midfield were guilty of not making a run of him.

Spearing impressed me again. I still think he can be our main CDM even when Lucas is back. When Jay keeps it simple it gives Gerrard freedom to push forward to deadly effect.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Sorry dev but Lucas is in a different league to Spearing.

[Abrak]

Spearing impressed me again. I still think he can be our main CDM even when Lucas is back. When Jay keeps it simple it gives Gerrard freedom to push forward to deadly effect.

think jay does a reasonable job but he's no lucas. doesn't read the game as well or cover his fullbacks as instinctively as lucas does for me. we've really missed lucas this season. we've missed finishing off chances more though.

still, blue half of the city goes to work in a foul one this morning. happy days.

In the matches this season before Lucas's injury we averaged 1.77 points per game - 67 points in a season (Arsenal are currently on course for 70 in 4th).

Since his injury we have averaged 1.27 points per game (in 15 games) which in a full season puts us in the bottom half of the table.

[StevieH]

our form since the new year has been disastrous really, for one reason or another. last night is the first time that a liverpool player has scored a league goal at anfield this year!

[Devil]

carroll looked really good as well again, linking up with gerrard and suarez. be a different story this season if we'd been able to field those three together on a more regular basis.

enjoyable that. everton wives no doubt still at this moment running for their lives.

Yeah he did play well, very pleased for the lad. Hes certainly been working on other parts to his game and dare I say starting to look like a Liverpool player bit by bit.

Ok he's not scoring goals but you notice if his first few touches in a game are good and he wins a few Ariel battles he seems to loosen up and get involved much more. Whats impressed me when he has played of late is how effective he can be when he wins the first header and flicks it on to a team mate. And players now seem to support more with runs anticipating he will win the header and look for the knock down. Where as before I felt some of our midfield were guilty of not making a run of him.

Spearing impressed me again. I still think he can be our main CDM even when Lucas is back. When Jay keeps it simple it gives Gerrard freedom to push forward to deadly effect.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Sorry dev but Lucas is in a different league to Spearing.

Haha wasn't saying Jay was better than Lucas or same type of player...

I see Lucas developing as a midfielder more into a box to box than just a CDM, ( needs to work on his shooting) if you recall going back to end of last season when we went on a very good run both Lucas and Spearing played together, Lucas got forward more with Jay holding and at the start of this year Lucas surprised a few people with his forward runs and penetrating passes but partnered Adam.

Lucas is very good in the air defensively which is Jays biggest weakness but it was no coincidence why Gerrard got forward more last night with Spearing holding compared to when Adam plays with Gerrard.

Anyway what I want to see is Gerrard more forward for certain games. I tell you what - I can't think of a more complete midfielder as Gerrard in the modern game. The sad fact is we are not going to get a lot of games out of Gerrard over the next few seasons so I see Spearing and Lucas partnership being used more going forward.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

[Abrak]

carroll looked really good as well again, linking up with gerrard and suarez. be a different story this season if we'd been able to field those three together on a more regular basis.

enjoyable that. everton wives no doubt still at this moment running for their lives.

Yeah he did play well, very pleased for the lad. Hes certainly been working on other parts to his game and dare I say starting to look like a Liverpool player bit by bit.

Ok he's not scoring goals but you notice if his first few touches in a game are good and he wins a few Ariel battles he seems to loosen up and get involved much more. Whats impressed me when he has played of late is how effective he can be when he wins the first header and flicks it on to a team mate. And players now seem to support more with runs anticipating he will win the header and look for the knock down. Where as before I felt some of our midfield were guilty of not making a run of him.

Spearing impressed me again. I still think he can be our main CDM even when Lucas is back. When Jay keeps it simple it gives Gerrard freedom to push forward to deadly effect.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

Sorry dev but Lucas is in a different league to Spearing.

Haha wasn't saying Jay was better than Lucas or same type of player...

I see Lucas developing as a midfielder more into a box to box than just a CDM, ( needs to work on his shooting) if you recall going back to end of last season when we went on a very good run both Lucas and Spearing played together, Lucas got forward more with Jay holding and at the start of this year Lucas surprised a few people with his forward runs and penetrating passes but partnered Adam.

Lucas is very good in the air defensively which is Jays biggest weakness but it was no coincidence why Gerrard got forward more last night with Spearing holding compared to when Adam plays with Gerrard.

Anyway what I want to see is Gerrard more forward for certain games. I tell you what - I can't think of a more complete midfielder as Gerrard in the modern game. The sad fact is we are not going to get a lot of games out of Gerrard over the next few seasons so I see Spearing and Lucas partnership being used more going forward.

"Bastion of Invincibility" Liverpool Football Club.

The only problem with that is that arent you trying to turn back the clock. Didnt Lucas arrive at LFC as a box to box midfielder and Benitez change him into a CDM. And he is possibly one of the top 5 CDMs in the PL. He is not just good in the air. His tackling stats are better than any player in the top 5 leagues in Europe and his passing stats are way better than any other player at Liverpool. He is also in the top ten for interceptions in the PL. So he is the very epitome of a defensive midfielder, in that he breaksdown the attack of the opposition and gives the ball back to his team. The opposition must find him very annoying. So when he so very good at what he does why try to get him to do something else?

I agree we need a decent box to box midfielder and that Adam nor Henderson are not really providing the goods. I also agree that when Lucas returns it shouldnt automatically mean that Spearing returns to the bench (although I dont really know what you do with 2 CDMs). Adam as a makeshift CDM is not a pretty sight.

BTW if we are going to experiment with playing players out of position, the one that I think is worth a try is Glen Johnson on the wing. It seems to me that Kelly is now getting too good to be on the bench the whole time that Johnson is fit. And I wouldnt like to see him go elsewhere because he doesnt get much first team play.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Abrak