Liverpool F.c.

[SantiSuk]

The issue seems to be whether Wenger wants him or not. He reportedly negotiated/agreed a 2 million loan plus 14 million buy-out option and then has stood back from it [bleacher]. Who knows what's happening, but the Beeb usually get it right and they say that Sahin is now Liverpool's man. If it comes to a straight money fight on wages we know who would win!!

I worry why Wenger was wanting another (non DFM) midfielder - thought maybe Wenger was not telling us something about Wilshere's recovery prospects. M'Vila is a DFM and it may be that the on-off deal with Rennes is on again. In my book Sahin to Liverpool and M'Vila to Arsenal would be win win for both clubs and the EPL.

Edited August 24, 2012 by SantiSuk

[mrbojangles]

What has he done that Balotelli or Tevez hasn't done Mr Bo? seems a bit harsh on him as Mancini has never really give him a chance to perform in the team for an extended period.

He basically doesn't listen to advice red.

[StevieH]

Can someone answer me on this one...has Nuri Sahi signed a loan deal because some on here are talking as if he already has?

latest seems to be that arsenal have ended their interest and he is very close to signing for LFC on loan. this story has been running around the houses for weeks though so i'll believe it when i see him doing the photoshoot holding the scarf aloft on the kop etc.

[carmine]

The issue seems to be whether Wenger wants him or not. He reportedly negotiated/agreed a 2 million loan plus 14 million buy-out option and then has stood back from it [bleacher]. Who knows what's happening, but the Beeb usually get it right and they say that Sahin is now Liverpool's man. If it comes to a straight money fight on wages we know who would win!!

I worry why Wenger was wanting another (non DFM) midfielder - thought maybe Wenger was not telling us something about Wilshere's recovery prospects. M'Vila is a DFM and it may be that the on-off deal with Rennes is on again. In my book Sahin to Liverpool and M'Vila to Arsenal would be win win for both clubs and the EPL.

M'Villa is a better fit as cover for Wilshire but he's a bit mental apparently.

[MrRed]

Is Sahin going to be a replacement for Gerrard?

why, where is gerrard going?

Unfortunately downhill Stevie

[rixalex]

Is Sahin going to be a replacement for Gerrard?

why, where is gerrard going?

Unfortunately downhill Stevie

I think there is still gas in the tank. No reason why with a bit of reinvention, he can't continue performing. He just needs to adapt his game a bit, a la Giggs and Scholes.

All the people still calling / expecting for him to be used in an advanced role are not doing him any favours. He is not that player any more.

[StevieH]

I think there is still gas in the tank. No reason why with a bit of reinvention, he can't continue performing. He just needs to adapt his game a bit, a la Giggs and Scholes.

All the people still calling / expecting for him to be used in an advanced role are not doing him any favours. He is not that player any more.

i think he needs to play fewer games. perhaps only home games or something. he was rested last night so hopefully we'll see a performance from him against city on sunday.

you're wrong by the way, he absolutely needs to be further forward. he is still that player and is still devastating around opposing penalty areas - he's just not as fit as he used to be. just because that clown hodgson played him deeper in the euros doesn't mean that's his best role now.

[MrRed]

I agree rix and i am one of his biggest fans,but the question is valid and as you say his role now is sort of going to be more in the Lucas,Allen role so Sahin if signed would be a replacement for whom?.....I mean out of them three it would be Gerrard wouldn't it.

Devastating Stevie? the jury is out at the moment on that one

And Stevie........... Gerrard had a great Euro's and was England's best player all round and in that position that the genius Hodgson played him in!

I think it is his best role now.

Edited August 24, 2012 by MrRed

[carmine]

I think there is still gas in the tank. No reason why with a bit of reinvention, he can't continue performing. He just needs to adapt his game a bit, a la Giggs and Scholes.

All the people still calling / expecting for him to be used in an advanced role are not doing him any favours. He is not that player any more.

i think he needs to play fewer games. perhaps only home games or something. he was rested last night so hopefully we'll see a performance from him against city on sunday.

you're wrong by the way, he absolutely needs to be further forward. he is still that player and is still devastating around opposing penalty areas - he's just not as fit as he used to be. just because that clown hodgson played him deeper in the euros doesn't mean that's his best role now.

Agree hereon both counts. Any signing that would allow Gerrard to be used more sparingly is also a good addition. He should also be played right up forward and i don't understand the arguement on this. Its a no brainer.

Strange that Wenger has ended interest in Sahin but a very good addition obviously for Liverpool

[rixalex]

He should also be played right up forward and i don't understand the arguement on this. Its a no brainer.

You agree that he was brilliant for England right? Well what position did he play? Wasn't the one you are advocating is it?

How can it be a no-brainer when the most recent evidence of him playing well is in a completely different position? Seems more like a quandary than a no-brainer. My vote goes with what we know he is capable of now, rather than what we know he was capable of a couple of years ago.

[MrRed]

He should also be played right up forward and i don't understand the arguement on this. Its a no brainer.

You agree that he was brilliant for England right? Well what position did he play? Wasn't the one you are advocating is it?

How can it be a no-brainer when the most recent evidence of him playing well is in a completely different position? Seems more like a quandary than a no-brainer. My vote goes with what we know he is capable of now, rather than what we know he was capable of a couple of years ago.

Give Carmine time to get his brain around that no-brainer Scholes and Giggs were devastating once!

[carmine]

He should also be played right up forward and i don't understand the arguement on this. Its a no brainer.

You agree that he was brilliant for England right? Well what position did he play? Wasn't the one you are advocating is it?

How can it be a no-brainer when the most recent evidence of him playing well is in a completely different position? Seems more like a quandary than a no-brainer. My vote goes with what we know he is capable of now, rather than what we know he was capable of a couple of years ago.

Over his career he has produced his best football played high up behind the striker. Has from what i've seen anyway.

[StevieH]

Devastating Stevie? the jury is out at the moment on that one

And Stevie........... Gerrard had a great Euro's and was England's best player all round and in that position that the genius Hodgson played him in!

I think it is his best role now.

it's not ed, and never has been. when gerrard plays in the deeper role he loses possession too much. he's also not the greatest when he's got too long to think on the ball and is a better player when he's working instinctively and attacking. opposing managers want to look at a liverpool team sheet and see gerrard as far away from their goal as possible. promise you.

and devastating? have a look at his hat-trick in last season's merseyside derby. he's still got it.

[MrRed]

He should also be played right up forward and i don't understand the arguement on this. Its a no brainer.

You agree that he was brilliant for England right? Well what position did he play? Wasn't the one you are advocating is it?

How can it be a no-brainer when the most recent evidence of him playing well is in a completely different position? Seems more like a quandary than a no-brainer. My vote goes with what we know he is capable of now, rather than what we know he was capable of a couple of years ago.

Over his career he has produced his best football played high up behind the striker. Has from what i've seen anyway.

Agreed but we are talking now and in the next 2/3 seasons Carmine.

He was the best player for England in that position in the Euro's wasn't he?

Edited August 24, 2012 by MrRed

[StevieH]

You agree that he was brilliant for England right? Well what position did he play? Wasn't the one you are advocating is it?

How can it be a no-brainer when the most recent evidence of him playing well is in a completely different position? Seems more like a quandary than a no-brainer. My vote goes with what we know he is capable of now, rather than what we know he was capable of a couple of years ago.

he filled a hole for england because he's a talented, intelligent footballer and because england's manager is a clown. doesn't make it his best position. in the premier league when he plays deep he concedes possession too much, is defensively undisciplined and is not a goal threat. his best position is attacking midfield/second striker. there's no debate to be had around this.

Over his career he has produced his best football played high up behind the striker. Has from what i've seen anyway.

unquestionably. though he had an excellent season scoring 23 goals from right midfield in 2005-06.

[carmine]

He should also be played right up forward and i don't understand the arguement on this. Its a no brainer.

You agree that he was brilliant for England right? Well what position did he play? Wasn't the one you are advocating is it?

How can it be a no-brainer when the most recent evidence of him playing well is in a completely different position? Seems more like a quandary than a no-brainer. My vote goes with what we know he is capable of now, rather than what we know he was capable of a couple of years ago.

Over his career he has produced his best football played high up behind the striker. Has from what i've seen anyway.

Agreed but we are talking now and in the next 2/3 seasons Carmine.

I've just said though that they need a good attacking mid to allow Gerrard to be used more sparingly. They look like they might have their man but theres no way he can be rested if the back up is Adam.

[StevieH]

Agreed but we are talking now and in the next 2/3 seasons Carmine.

He was the best player for England in that position in the Euro's wasn't he?

england's performance, or lack of, in the euros shouldn't be used as a guide for anything. just because paul scholes successfully reinvented himself as a sitting midfielder doesn't mean gerrard should or can. scholes keeps possession better than gerrard.

the further you move gerrard from the opposing goal the happier opposing managers are. that's all there is to it.

[Devil]

If Sahin comes in which be a fantastic signing then Gerrard as he did for the Gomel home, will no doubt be used in the front 3 not as a deep midfielder especially no we will have cover for midfield.

We will see a Lucas, Sahin and Allen be first choice in the midfield 3. With Suarez and Gerrard free to interchange wide or behind Borini who I see leading the line (if first choice 11)

Noticed Downing came on as Left Back last night...Rodgers see him as playing a wing back also.

Thought Sterling showed some good glimpses of his ability and pace again last night.

[MrRed]

Agreed but we are talking now and in the next 2/3 seasons Carmine.

He was the best player for England in that position in the Euro's wasn't he?

england's performance, or lack of, in the euros shouldn't be used as a guide for anything. just because paul scholes successfully reinvented himself as a sitting midfielder doesn't mean gerrard should or can. scholes keeps possession better than gerrard.

the further you move gerrard from the opposing goal the happier opposing managers are. that's all there is to it.

All great players hit a peak Stevie,Gerrard is still a good footballer but managers are not as concerned about him as they once was.I think we can leave it at that for now and see how he goes this season.

[carmine]

Agreed but we are talking now and in the next 2/3 seasons Carmine.

He was the best player for England in that position in the Euro's wasn't he?

england's performance, or lack of, in the euros shouldn't be used as a guide for anything. just because paul scholes successfully reinvented himself as a sitting midfielder doesn't mean gerrard should or can. scholes keeps possession better than gerrard.

the further you move gerrard from the opposing goal the happier opposing managers are. that's all there is to it.

All great players hit a peak Stevie,Gerrard is still a good footballer but managers are not as concerned about him as they once was.I think we can leave it at that for now and see how he goes this season.

Interesting you say this because when fit and in the right set up i still view Gerrard as their dangerman when we play Liverpool. He's still a talisman to the team.

[rixalex]

england's performance, or lack of, in the euros shouldn't be used as a guide for anything.

But we aren't talking about England's performance, we are talking specifically about Gerrard's, and say what you will of Hodgson, that was the first time i have ever seen Gerrard perform for England. Says something to me

the further you move gerrard from the opposing goal the happier opposing managers are. that's all there is to it.

I think you are living in the past. Guess we'll find out. BR will know the player his is now better than any of us. Let's see where he plays and how he performs and come back to this at the end of the season.

Edited August 24, 2012 by rixalex

[smokie36]

Gerrard was at his best playing box to box five years ago.

Now he has to be a second striker or move him back to defensive midfield....or of course play him to death and he'll end up knackered and injured by xmas....

[StevieH]

But we aren't talking about England's performance, we are talking specifically about Gerrard's, and say what you will of Hodgson, that was the first time i have ever seen Gerrard perform for England. Says something to me

I think you are living in the past. Guess we'll find out. BR will know the player his is now better than any of us. Let's see where he plays and how he performs and come back to this at the end of the season.

well it shouldn't say much. the list of players who have achieved hugely at club level while 'not performing for england' is enormous. and says more about england than it does about the players.

and yes, let's see. my suspicion though from having watched gerrard closely for over 10 years is that rodgers will want a tiring, less fit gerrard close to the opposing goal. where he is a threat and not a potential liability.

Gerrard was at his best playing box to box five years ago.

Now he has to be a second striker or move him back to defensive midfield....or of course play him to death and he'll end up knackered and injured by xmas....

gerrard wasn't box to box 5 years ago. not really. he was an attacking midfielder almost all the time under benitez. but now he has to be the furthest forward of the three in a rodgers midfield. and not play every match.

[rixalex]

But we aren't talking about England's performance, we are talking specifically about Gerrard's, and say what you will of Hodgson, that was the first time i have ever seen Gerrard perform for England. Says something to me

I think you are living in the past. Guess we'll find out. BR will know the player his is now better than any of us. Let's see where he plays and how he performs and come back to this at the end of the season.

well it shouldn't say much. the list of players who have achieved hugely at club level while 'not performing for england' is enormous. and says more about england than it does about the players.

Digressing here, but...

if a team collectively performs badly, it says a lot about the team, the manager etc. If a player individually performs badly, it says a lot about the player. Shifting all the blame for bad individual performances onto the team, is being very generous on the player, and of course in this instance, offers up a prime opportunity, as if a prime opportunity were required, to slag off England. Great players can individually perform to a great standard even in a Sunday league team. Of course tactics, man management, training etc will all have a bearing on how much you get out of the player, but it can't transform a great player into a crap one, or vice versa.

Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney, are all examples of recent great players who have individually performed terribly for their country.To a very large degree, I blame the players for this. Now that is not saying i blame them for the way the team collectively has under-performed, but they have to take responsibility for their part in the poor performance.

[mjj]

Nuri Sahin on loan, nice!

[Devil]

Sahin loan deal done, relieved that's all of the way, just need the Dempsey deal doing now.

Looks a good 11 on paper.

-------------Reina-------------

Johnson-Skrtel-Agger-Enrique

-------Lucas-Allen------------

Gerrard---Sahin-----Suarez

-----------Borini--------------

[StevieH]

Digressing here, but...

if a team collectively performs badly, it says a lot about the team, the manager etc. If a player individually performs badly, it says a lot about the player. Shifting all the blame for bad individual performances onto the team, is being very generous on the player, and of course in this instance, offers up a prime opportunity, as if a prime opportunity were required, to slag off England. Great players can individually perform to a great standard even in a Sunday league team. Of course tactics, man management, training etc will all have a bearing on how much you get out of the player, but it can't transform a great player into a crap one, or vice versa.

Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney, are all examples of recent great players who have individually performed terribly for their country.To a very large degree, I blame the players for this. Now that is not saying i blame them for the way the team collectively has under-performed, but they have to take responsibility for their part in the poor performance.

i think that still comes at the england discussion from the wrong end. there have been some great players played for england in recent years, who achieved hugely at club level. so that says far more about the way england and its managers have misused them than the players' responsibility. they've been doing what they've been told and coached to do.

anyway, delighted to have got sahin in, he's a real quality player. lucas, allen and sahin could play some great stuff together, hopefully feeding suarez, gerrard, borini etc further forward. i'd still start andy carroll against city tomorrow though.

[MrRed]

A bit of real quality at last!

[StevieH]

well he's no andes ron that's for sure.

[rixalex]

Digressing here, but...

if a team collectively performs badly, it says a lot about the team, the manager etc. If a player individually performs badly, it says a lot about the player. Shifting all the blame for bad individual performances onto the team, is being very generous on the player, and of course in this instance, offers up a prime opportunity, as if a prime opportunity were required, to slag off England. Great players can individually perform to a great standard even in a Sunday league team. Of course tactics, man management, training etc will all have a bearing on how much you get out of the player, but it can't transform a great player into a crap one, or vice versa.

Gerrard, Lampard and Rooney, are all examples of recent great players who have individually performed terribly for their country.To a very large degree, I blame the players for this. Now that is not saying i blame them for the way the team collectively has under-performed, but they have to take responsibility for their part in the poor performance.

i think that still comes at the england discussion from the wrong end. there have been some great players played for england in recent years, who achieved hugely at club level. so that says far more about the way england and its managers have misused them than the players' responsibility. they've been doing what they've been told and coached to do.

In that case, they must have been told and coached to play crap.

Of course the team and the players are affected by the way that they are managed, but come on, if we were having a discussion on how woeful Rooney has been for England i don't think you'd be sitting there wasting much time defending him. He has played crap, just as Gerrard has too. Do you really think it necessary to baby these guys?