Liverpool F.c.

[StevieH]

this is a good read.

http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fan...-lucky-liv.html

QUOTELucky, lucky Liverpool

I think we all knew what the headlines were going to be as soon as Fernando Torres nodded in that 92nd minute winner. As the men on the pitch and the fans in the stand celebrated in the way only a last minute winner can be, the hacks in the press box had already written their match reports; and there's no way they were re-writing their critical words of the manager and his selections just because of a late winner.

"Late Torres winner gets manager off the hook"

"Rafa the rotator strikes lucky"

The lazy press, bar the odd few exceptions, seem to have a typecast of each club and report on that typecast no matter what.

For Arsenal they are brilliant to watch, producing flowing football and have some of the best youngsters around. Yet Wenger is never criticised, despite going without silverware for over 5 years and currently 12 points off the pace in the league and in grave danger of missing out on a Champions League slot for next season.

Chelsea have spent incredible sums of money, yet are currently sat 4th in the league, dropped yet more points at home over the weekend and have won only 4 of their last 11 matches. But they are known as a brilliant counter attacking side and one of Europe's best. A handful of fans may have unfurled a "Scolari Out" banner over the weekend, but you won't find the nation's press and media asking questions of him. I put that banner and the booing down to the small time "new fan" Chelsea have following them these days. A side with only 3 league titles and no European Cup wins in their entire history now trying to hound out a manager halfway through a season as they've dropped a few points.

Anyway, back to the point being made.

Every time Liverpool concede a goal from a set piece it's put down to zonal marking. The pundits hark on about it in every post-match analysis, stating how they don't like it and it doesn't work. Yet non of them have enough of a brain to realise that Liverpool have had the best defensive record in the league over the past 3 or 4 years using that system. Non of them ever question the man marking system when another side concedes a goal from a set piece do they? It's lazy and it's all part of the typecast associated with each club.

They state we are nothing without Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard and will struggle in a big way without them. Yet somehow we've managed to sit top of the league for large parts of the season, with Torres spending most of that time sitting in the stands through injury. We managed to beat United at home without Torres or Gerrard in the side. We beat Chelsea away without Torres in the side. We beat Portsmouth on Saturday without Gerrard in the side. All of which is ignored when reverting to type in writing those reports or asking questions at a press conference.

Where Alex Ferguson rests his players and keeps his players fresh, Benitez rotates or drops them; damaging their confidence and ruining all chance we have of winning the league. When Man Utd win by the odd goal away from home despite hardly having a shot on target, they are deemed unstoppable. When Liverpool win by the odd goal away from home, despite having chances to score 6 or 7 goals, we are deemed lucky.

The side Benitez sent out at the weekend surprised everyone. We can argue the rights and wrongs of it until Lescott's wife comes home, but he got the result, came home with 3 points and the key players were only required for the last quarter of the game at most. Job done. The game could have been, and should have been, over long before then. We had enough chances to win it before the introduction of the so called rested stars. That was always the plan. To try and win the game with the side put out, and if not, then the others were on the bench to come on and change things if needed. It worked, and yet the manager is still grilled post-match over his selection and policy of resting players.

Torres, Alonso and Kuyt all had gruelling games in midweek against Everton and left the field on their knees. All will be turning out for their countries this week, and I think Rafa knows that they will play for the majority of those games, so wanted to give them a chance to rest. Even if they play the full 90 minutes for their countries, they will have had a rest this weekend, and then have another week or so off until our next game, returning with batteries recharged.

That result put us back top of the league, albeit for only 24 hours, yet the manager was being interrogated in the way he would if we'd just drawn away from home at relegation candidates and looked in grave danger of missing out on the lucrative top 4 finish; a little bit like Arsene Wenger maybe? I wonder if he was dragged over hot coals yesterday afternoon after falling further behind in the race for 4th place, never mind the race for the title.

The media treatment of Rafa Benitez is a disgrace.

I was critical of him after the Wigan game, mainly for his removal of Steven Gerrard and the defensive approach to those games. And I still think that criticism was justified, as is all constructive criticism when required. But when the criticism is constant, no matter what the result, then it starts to become a little tedious.

On Saturday we may have started with a different system and players in unfamiliar positions, but for me, it was an improved performance from other recent games on the road. We attacked, and even when we went 1-0 and 2-1 down, I still thought we were going to win the game. We went forward, attacked in numbers and I just knew it was a matter of time before we scored again. That's something I couldn't say about the games at Stoke and Wigan, and it was a refreshing change. We ended the game with Torres, Kuyt, Babel and Benayoun playing upfront and going for it, which is exactly the way we need to be finishing those games, as there is no margin for error anymore. Every game is a must win.

Is it too much to ask for games to be reported on, without letting a vendetta against a manager dictate the tone of that report?

Paul Jones

[bkkjames]

When Man Utd win by the odd goal away from home despite hardly having a shot on target, they are deemed unstoppable.

I can't think of any game this season (exception of the LP game_ that we have not outshot our opponents by a wide margin.

The rest of the stuff where he believes LP would win after trailing on two occaisions is pure 'after the fact' reporting.

The stuff about Chelsea is humorous at best. Only 3 league titles - compared to LP, how many in the last decade? Still clinging to that old one.

[Jimjim]

Got to be a little more creative than that. Your critiques are hardly original, and make his point perfectly.

Unlike in other recent matches, I too, had a strong feeling Liverpool would come out on top even at 2-1. That came because they were clearly dominating and determined. Not after the fact reporting, just honesty. I had the same feeling.

Shots on target for Man U last match? 3 West Ham? 3

Yes, that's a wide margin, innit? He did say shots on target.

You've lost this one.

Edited February 10, 2009 by Jimjim

[StevieH]

he's absolutely spot on that writer. i've never seen a reaction like we got at the weekend, we won the match, rafa got his tactics and personnel right, and still the man gets vilified.

[bkkjames]

he's absolutely spot on that writer. i've never seen a reaction like we got at the weekend, we won the match, rafa got his tactics and personnel right, and still the man gets vilified.

Probably something to do with the fact of who you were playing more than anything. Look at this way, for a change the London paper boys have a new target in Rafa and are just milking it for all its worth.

As for the previous poster, so when you are 2-1 down, you honestly thought you would win? That is confidence!

[redrus]

James, even when United are 3-0 down, I still think we will win so......................, not sure where you're going with that one.

You always support your team and if you don't think they will come back, you still believe they will, right till the fat bird sings. For me that typifies what love for your team is about....!

redrus

[MSingh]

James, even when United are 3-0 down, I still think we will win so......................, not sure where you're going with that one.

You always support your team and if you don't think they will come back, you still believe they will, right till the fat bird sings. For me that typifies what love for your team is about....!

redrus

Are you imnplying this Liverpool side is like the Man Ure side's of year gone by IE the Team of the T*ttenham 3-5 at <deleted> Fart Lane a few years back etc ???

Edited February 10, 2009 by MSingh

[redrus]

^

lol, no, I am implying as to the mental health of football supporters who, in the face of seeming advercity, "still believe"....!

Going back to that game you mention though, who, apart from United supporters, truely believed we would come back form 3-0, away from home....?

redrus

[MSingh]

^

lol, no, I am implying as to the mental health of football supporters who, in the face of seeming advercity, "still believe"....!

Going back to that game you mention though, who, apart from United supporters, truely believed we would come back form 3-0, away from home....?

redrus

Honestly, hand on heart, i was at Romford Market that day working as i was skint & couldn't afford the trip to Everton, anyway's we had the Radio on & couldn't believe the T*ttenham score at HT however i had a Pint & Packet of Crisps bet with the Bloke i was working for that Man Ure would come back & win it 3-4, he never paid me cos it ended up 3-5, W*nker !!!

We lost 0-6 at Everton that day too so i'm glad i was skint !!

[redrus]

^

Gutted.........., who did he support....?

redrus

[MSingh]

^

Gutted.........., who did he support....?

redrus

He was West Ham too & was as p*ssed off as i was i suppose with the 0-6 so knocked me for the bet...

He is 6'5 & about a good 19 Stone last time i saw him though so i wasn't gonna argue..

[bkkjames]

James, even when United are 3-0 down, I still think we will win so......................, not sure where you're going with that one.

You always support your team and if you don't think they will come back, you still believe they will, right till the fat bird sings. For me that typifies what love for your team is about....!

redrus

This is where you and I disagree, a big difference between wishing for something and honestly believing it will happen. If we go down 3-0, sure I will wish for them to come back but...

[MSingh]

James, even when United are 3-0 down, I still think we will win so......................, not sure where you're going with that one.

You always support your team and if you don't think they will come back, you still believe they will, right till the fat bird sings. For me that typifies what love for your team is about....!

redrus

This is where you and I disagree, a big difference between wishing for something and honestly believing it will happen. If we go down 3-0, sure I will wish for them to come back but...

I'm with James on this but it matters not as i'm West Ham & unlike L'pool or Mna Ure, we rarely have Teams capable of coming back from 2 or 3 Goals down in the Premiership...

[StevieH]

James, even when United are 3-0 down, I still think we will win so......................, not sure where you're going with that one.

You always support your team and if you don't think they will come back, you still believe they will, right till the fat bird sings. For me that typifies what love for your team is about....!

is right. i was in istanbul and saw djimi traore win the european cup. i don't believe a game is dead until the whistle goes and the players are back in the dressing room.

[bkkjames]

James, even when United are 3-0 down, I still think we will win so......................, not sure where you're going with that one.

You always support your team and if you don't think they will come back, you still believe they will, right till the fat bird sings. For me that typifies what love for your team is about....!

is right. i was in istanbul and saw djimi traore win the european cup. i don't believe a game is dead until the whistle goes and the players are back in the dressing room.

ok stevie, better to see the glass a 1/3 full right

[StevieH]

ok stevie, better to see the glass a 1/3 full right

nature of being a football fan is optimism james.

[redrus]

ok stevie, better to see the glass a 1/3 full right

nature of being a football fan is optimism james.

I always believe we will win....!

redrus

[StevieH]

torres, alonso, arbeloa, reina and riera all safe and in one piece after last night's pointless friendly thankfully. good amount of time for rest until the next league match too.

[bkkjames]

LP folk, what are your thoughts on the whole Daniel Agger situation? Does he have a gripe? Should he be airing it in a paper?

[StevieH]

LP folk, what are your thoughts on the whole Daniel Agger situation? Does he have a gripe? Should he be airing it in a paper?

he's quite straight-talking is agger and i'm fuc_king angry that the club have been pissing about with his new contract as long as they have. so while i don't like to see players bleating in the press, i can kind of understand why agger's upset.

he's an outstanding player and i'll be furious if he's allowed to leave. but we are absolutely broke, which is i think the reason he's not been given a new deal yet.

[bkkjames]

LP folk, what are your thoughts on the whole Daniel Agger situation? Does he have a gripe? Should he be airing it in a paper?

he's quite straight-talking is agger and i'm fuc_king angry that the club have been pissing about with his new contract as long as they have. so while i don't like to see players bleating in the press, i can kind of understand why agger's upset.

he's an outstanding player and i'll be furious if he's allowed to leave. but we are absolutely broke, which is i think the reason he's not been given a new deal yet.

he is griping about not playing more so than the contract. or is it all part of the plan to keep him out of the side and view of Man City types who might want to get him on the cheap come summer?

[Jockstar]

Agger issues ultimatum to Liverpool

February 12, 2009

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Liverpool defender Daniel Agger could walk out on the club if he remains on the fringes of the first team at Anfield.

Agger has found himself down the pecking order under Rafael Benitez, with Jamie Carragher and Martin Skrtel the manager's preferred partnership in the heart of defence.

The 24-year-old Denmark international, who has failed to agree terms on a contract extension with the club, was linked with a move to AC Milan during last month's transfer window but that deal failed to materialise.

Hopes that Agger will commit his future to Liverpool are fast fading, and it has been reported he will try to buy out the rest of his contract in the summer.

"Let me be honest and admit that, if I don't play, then it's untenable and it can't go on like that," Agger told Sporten.dk.

"It's never nice for a footballer to not play regularly. That is something I will not hide. But my situation at the club is that he [benitez] doesn't want to let me play.

"So far I have opted to stay and wait for my chance and to fight for my place.

"I feel I am good enough. Therefore, it irritates me when I don't play. I am waiting for the chance to play a number of matches and to show that I am good enough."

[StevieH]

he is griping about not playing more so than the contract. or is it all part of the plan to keep him out of the side and view of Man City types who might want to get him on the cheap come summer?

nah he's griping about not playing because he's not been offered the new deal and the club has been pissing about with it for months now.

i actually think he's our best centreback and will be livid if we let him go.

[bkkjames]

he is griping about not playing more so than the contract. or is it all part of the plan to keep him out of the side and view of Man City types who might want to get him on the cheap come summer?

nah he's griping about not playing because he's not been offered the new deal and the club has been pissing about with it for months now.

i actually think he's our best centreback and will be livid if we let him go.

This is what I don't understand about Rafa the Wise, you, like us are involved in many cup races, surely enough games to give him a run once and awhile?

[StevieH]

This is what I don't understand about Rafa the Wise, you, like us are involved in many cup races, surely enough games to give him a run once and awhile?

notwithstanding your pathetic attempts to have a go at rafa, he has played agger. just not as much as the player would like and not as much as i would like. it's a tough call given that we also have three other really top class centrebacks in carragher, skrtel and hyypia.

[bkkjames]

This is what I don't understand about Rafa the Wise, you, like us are involved in many cup races, surely enough games to give him a run once and awhile?

notwithstanding your pathetic attempts to have a go at rafa, he has played agger. just not as much as the player would like and not as much as i would like. it's a tough call given that we also have three other really top class centrebacks in carragher, skrtel and hyypia.

you sure are a sensitive lad regarding your manager stevie...wasn't long ago if i recall old sammie was down the pecking order and out of favour at the kop?

[StevieH]

you sure are a sensitive lad regarding your manager stevie...wasn't long ago if i recall old sammie was down the pecking order and out of favour at the kop?

yes i am jim. particularly when it's a plazzie manc having a pop at him.

sami is fourth choice no doubt, but he's bloody fantastic cover to have available. games he's played this season he's been magnificent.

[Devil]

This is what I don't understand about Rafa the Wise, you, like us are involved in many cup races, surely enough games to give him a run once and awhile?

notwithstanding your pathetic attempts to have a go at rafa, he has played agger. just not as much as the player would like and not as much as i would like. it's a tough call given that we also have three other really top class centrebacks in carragher, skrtel and hyypia.

I wonder if we will see the formation we played against Portsmouth again a few more times with all three center backs playing, Carra, Skrtel and Agger it was great to see Agger and Skrtel bringing the ball forward.

I have watched the game again since and was very impressed at Aurelio in midfield, he hit the post, scored a goal. Perhaps he should be ahead of Lucas in the midfield?

Edited February 12, 2009 by Devil

[StevieH]

I wonder if we will see the formation we played against Portsmouth again a few more times with all three center backs playing, Carra, Skrtel and Agger it was great to see Agger and Skrtel bringing the ball forward.

I have watched the game again since and was very impressed at Aurelio in midfield, he hit the post, scored a goal. Perhaps he should be ahead of Lucas in the midfield?

aurelio's a class player dev and it made me laugh when the media was having a pop at playing 'untried' fabio aurelio in central midfield - he played there plenty of times for valencia. i'd start him there ahead of lucas, yeah. depending on the opposition like.

thing is with the 3-5-2 we've played it about three time in the last two seasons and every time the opposition hasn't been expecting it. i think it only comes out when we're missing a fair few players to be honest.

[MSingh]

Gents, is it my imagination or is Skrtel the part ??

Few times i've watched him this Year & he seems to have everything, i think, to make him a very, very good Defender ?