Video On Sacking Of Ayutthaya Goes Viral

[jdinasia]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded

Never colonized ,,, it is a bit different.

[TackyToo]

""It makes our country weak and we end up losing when an enemy attacks. Now our enemy is the global economic maelstrom, so if Thais aren't united, we can't get out of danger."

It's jingoistic claptrap like this which keeps Thailand locked in a fixed mindset about the past and also the future.

What the heck makes them think they are sooo important to the rest of the world?

[Activo]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded

Thailand never , Siam was

more than once and not only by the Birmese

I believe you will find Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese between 1941 and 1945.

No it wasn't. Thailand signed a "Freindship accord" with the Japs & even fought alongside them against the British on the Burmese border

[Suradit69]

""It makes our country weak and we end up losing when an enemy attacks. Now our enemy is the global economic maelstrom, so if Thais aren't united, we can't get out of danger."

It's jingoistic claptrap like this which keeps Thailand locked in a fixed mindset about the past and also the future.

Of course when it comes to practical economic advice, you can't beat the wisdom of George Bush:

As we work with Congress in the coming year to chart a new course in Iraq and strengthen our military to meet the challenges of the 21st century, we must also work together to achieve important goals for the American people here at home. This work begins with keeping our economy growing. … And I encourage you all to go shopping more.

It always amazes me that people from the shambolic western economies continued to feel qualified to instruct others on how to behave.

[CMBob]

Interesting to note that some say the Japanese did not invade Thailand and others say the Japanese did. While a reading of a somewhat accurate history book will provide more clarification (I'd suggest Wyatt's "A Short History of Thailand"), both sides are sorta right on this one. Phibun did indeed talk to the Japanese about their demand to be allowed free passage through Thailand and, in part, Phibun was negotiating for the right to grab territories from Malaysia and Cambodia. Phibun's communications were fuzzy and ultimately the Japanese issued an ultimatum at 11PM on December 7, 1941. Given the Thais didn't apparently answer in time or in the manner the Japanese watnted, he Japanese did in fact invade on December 8, 1941, and after less than a day of battles, a ceasefire took hold and the Thais quickly became "friends/allies" of the Japanese and an alliance agreement was signed. In reality, Thailand capitulated to the Japanese as they realized they didn't have a bat's chance in hell of fending them off and further conflict was simply going to kill a lot of Thais and destroy Thai property. Plus some Thais in the government saw their deal with Japan would result in Thailand being able to acquire lands previously lost by war/treaty to Cambodia and Malaysia (which lands Thailand did indeed grab with the help of the Japanese). Thailand shortly thereafter declared war against the US and the UK but the Thai ambassdor in Washington refused to deliver the proclamation to his US counterparts. And, to be completely fair, there was some Thai resistance both internally and externally to the Japanese occupation.

Japan's occupation - which is really what it was - lasted until the end of WWII and, once the Japanese were defeated, Britain and France required some war reparations from Thailand (provision of rice and return of annexed territories to Malaysia and return of other annexed territory to Cambodia).

What sometimes dumbfounds me is that I have yet to meet a Thai who has any inkling of any of the above.

[CMBob]

(Sorry for somewhat continuing the hijacking of the original post topic).

Edited April 25, 2013 by CMBob

[bangon04]

Interesting to note that some say the Japanese did not invade Thailand and others say the Japanese did. While a reading of a somewhat accurate history book will provide more clarification (I'd suggest Wyatt's "A Short History of Thailand"), both sides are sorta right on this one. Phibun did indeed talk to the Japanese about their demand to be allowed free passage through Thailand and, in part, Phibun was negotiating for the right to grab territories from Malaysia and Cambodia. Phibun's communications were fuzzy and ultimately the Japanese issued an ultimatum at 11PM on December 7, 1941. Given the Thais didn't apparently answer in time or in the manner the Japanese watnted, he Japanese did in fact invade on December 8, 1941, and after less than a day of battles, a ceasefire took hold and the Thais quickly became "friends/allies" of the Japanese and an alliance agreement was signed. In reality, Thailand capitulated to the Japanese as they realized they didn't have a bat's chance in hell of fending them off and further conflict was simply going to kill a lot of Thais and destroy Thai property. Plus some Thais in the government saw their deal with Japan would result in Thailand being able to acquire lands previously lost by war/treaty to Cambodia and Malaysia (which lands Thailand did indeed grab with the help of the Japanese). Thailand shortly thereafter declared war against the US and the UK but the Thai ambassdor in Washington refused to deliver the proclamation to his US counterparts. And, to be completely fair, there was some Thai resistance both internally and externally to the Japanese occupation.

Japan's occupation - which is really what it was - lasted until the end of WWII and, once the Japanese were defeated, Britain and France required some war reparations from Thailand (provision of rice and return of annexed territories to Malaysia and return of other annexed territory to Cambodia).

What sometimes dumbfounds me is that I have yet to meet a Thai who has any inkling of any of the above.

You mean it is not taught in history lessons in school???? Really???

[CMBob]

You mean it is not taught in history lessons in school???? Really???

I have no idea what is actually taught but I can say that I've raised the WWII topic (politely and with a firm effort to be neutral with the questions) multiple times over the years to Thai friends and acquaintenances and they seem not to be able to relate any details at all. The last time I did that was about 2 months ago with 4-5 Thai acquaintenaces (including two recent university graduates) and all equally seemed to lack any information about any of it (although one did say, without any retort by me, that "Thailand was on the Allies side" or words to that effect).

[ChokDeeMak]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded

Thailand never , Siam was

more than once and not only by the Birmese

I believe you will find Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese between 1941 and 1945.

Yes, there is a TV series about. Even, A movie based on the TV series.

[Ajaan]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded:giggle:

Thailand never , Siam was

more than once and not only by the Birmese

I believe you will find Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese between 1941 and 1945.

And before that the British had the three southern most provinces and also Phuket (Mining Tin), Whilst the French had Trang and Chantaburi back in the day.

Doesn't count, for the simple reason that at that time there was no Thailand, so there was nothing for other countries to colonize/"steal"...in fact, Thailand (or, more accurately, the Central Thais) itself is one huge colonizing power who have subjugated the peoples of other cultures over the centuries and stole their land...they did it to the Malays, the Mon, the Lao, the Lanna people, and especially the Khmer.

[ChokDeeMak]

You mean it is not taught in history lessons in school???? Really???

I have no idea what is actually taught but I can say that I've raised the WWII topic (politely and with a firm effort to be neutral with the questions) multiple times over the years to Thai friends and acquaintenances and they seem not to be able to relate any details at all. The last time I did that was about 2 months ago with 4-5 Thai acquaintenaces (including two recent university graduates) and all equally seemed to lack any information about any of it (although one did say, without any retort by me, that "Thailand was on the Allies side" or words to that effect).

They know about Japan being bombed but nothing really more than that. I have no clue why they dont know maybe to keep the true from coming out?

[thaicbr]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded:giggle:Thailand never , Siam wasmore than once and not only by the BirmeseI believe you will find Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese between 1941 and 1945.And before that the British had the three southern most provinces and also Phuket (Mining Tin), Whilst the French had Trang and Chantaburi back in the day.Doesn't count, for the simple reason that at that time there was no Thailand, so there was nothing for other countries to colonize/"steal"...in fact, Thailand (or, more accurately, the Central Thais) itself is one huge colonizing power who have subjugated the peoples of other cultures over the centuries and stole their land...they did it to the Malays, the Mon, the Lao, the Lanna people, and especially the Khmer.

It was called Siam prior to 1939 then Thailand. It was then renamed Siam from 1945-1949 then back to Thailand again.

And what you describe is pretty much any and every country. Kings and serfs etc.

Sent from my i-mobile i-STYLE Q6

Edited April 25, 2013 by thaicbr

[Locationthailand]

The fall of Ayutthaya happened because King Ekkatat at the time refused to turn the canon on the Burmese in fear of waking his 1,000 consorts. That was an intelligent move! The Burmese on the other hand learned from their continued mistake of repeated invasions and trashed the city rather than keep returning to be repelled. But let not the truth stand in the way of a good story. The history books are never written by the vanquished but in this case they were.

To make a film of this sounds interesting as there are a couple of other screenplays floating around about this subject for a major movie. This period, the following 10 years, created the beginning of the present Chakri Dynasty.

The figures of the viewings are way out (reported here) with more than 200,000 already

Any chance of a version with English subtitles or dubbing?

Sadly no - especially now that the censors had stamped it as a threat to Thailand.

[Thereisnoif]

One day the Thai people are bound to wake up and realize all the lies they have been mouthfed since they were born.

[tominbkk]

The fall of Ayutthaya happened because King Ekkatat at the time refused to turn the canon on the Burmese in fear of waking his 1,000 consorts. That was an intelligent move! The Burmese on the other hand learned from their continued mistake of repeated invasions and trashed the city rather than keep returning to be repelled. But let not the truth stand in the way of a good story. The history books are never written by the vanquished but in this case they were.

To make a film of this sounds interesting as there are a couple of other screenplays floating around about this subject for a major movie. This period, the following 10 years, created the beginning of the present Chakri Dynasty.

The figures of the viewings are way out (reported here) with more than 200,000 already

Any chance of a version with English subtitles or dubbing?

To make it more Thai-friendly they need occasional 'boooooiiiiinnnnngggg' noises throughout....

[Thai at Heart]

You mean it is not taught in history lessons in school???? Really???

I have no idea what is actually taught but I can say that I've raised the WWII topic (politely and with a firm effort to be neutral with the questions) multiple times over the years to Thai friends and acquaintenances and they seem not to be able to relate any details at all. The last time I did that was about 2 months ago with 4-5 Thai acquaintenaces (including two recent university graduates) and all equally seemed to lack any information about any of it (although one did say, without any retort by me, that "Thailand was on the Allies side" or words to that effect).

You should try a discussion about the events of the Korean war in China.

I saw a grown Chinese woman cry......

[Theoutsider]

Look like this has brought out the Thai history expert

[Theoutsider]

Back to world war 2 again.

What next red and yellows.

[Pops]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded

Thailand never , Siam was

more than once and not only by the Birmese

I believe you will find Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese between 1941 and 1945.

They were a Japanese ally. You cannot be invaded and occupied by an ally.

The Japanese were invited in while the Thais collaborated with them, being led at the time by fascist dictator Phibunsongkram, who was taking advantage of WWII by launching invasions of Western Cambodia, to claim Angkor Wat and other provinces for Thailand to further Thai nationalism. Phibunsongkram is still respected and revered by many Thais.

Thais were complicit in the construction of the Death Railway and other war crimes that the Japanese committed. The great myth is that of hundreds of thousands of Thais dying while building the railway, when the vast majority of Asians that died were Commonwealth troops, shipped in by the Thais allied to the Japanese from British Malay, Burma, Hong Kong and Singapore. Several thousand (about 8,000) Thais did perish however, but they mostly belonged to the Seri Thai movement which was fighting as a resistance movement at the time.

They were extremely lucky post-WWII as the US saw Thailand as a sphere of influence in South East Asia and did not punish them as with other powers, much to the chagrin of the British, who's influence in Thailand then waned.

I even read that Thailand, as a Japanese Ally, even officially declared war to the U.S. and allies during WWII

[rogerdee123]

Will he be making a movie about the Thai's sacking of Vientiane ?

[Bluespunk]

I always hear my Thai friends say that Thailand was never invaded

Thailand never , Siam was

more than once and not only by the Birmese

I believe you will find Thailand was invaded and occupied by the Japanese between 1941 and 1945.

No it wasn't. Thailand signed a "Freindship accord" with the Japs & even fought alongside them against the British on the Burmese border

It was signed after Thailand was invaded and found it was unable to resist the Japanese. They became allies out of greed and an instinct for survival. How much this alliance and treaty would have been respected had the Japanese won the war is questionable.