Substantial Amount Missing From The Bank Account

[dick]

I haven;t updated my Kasikorn bank book for quite a while and recently discovered that 150k was withdrawn from the account in January plus cash deposit i have made in the bank office is not in the book. I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book.When i went to ask the questions what happened to this money i met total lack of cooperation from Kasikorn bank staff. Regarding missing 150k they refused to name where exactly money went to and by which means,either over the counter withdrawal or ATM,single or combined transactions. They said they have no knowledge of such a thing and said that i could order a bank statement from the main office in Bangkok for 200 baht on which ,according to them,there will be just a dates and an amounts,but no locations of the withdrawals . Without indications of the locations it would be impossible for me to prove anything ,especially when the date indicated in the bank book corresponds with my absence in LOS. As for the missing deposit they totally dismissed it and refused to check CCTV footage which i suggested them to make,proving that i was actually at the office making such a deposit.

Any word if advise what am i suppose to do about all this? I have not even been offered to serve an official written complaint about the matter.

[Chicog]

Sounds like a police matter. Although I would first ask to see the senior manager and politely tell them that this is your only recourse if they choose not to investigate.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Chicog

[rayongchelsea]

Get the bank statement first at least see time dates and location..happened to me many years ago..I just wrote it off as I didn't have the time.it was withdrawn from the local branch..no Internet available then so didn't realize for 3 months.

Show conclusively you were not here..then you will get the bullshit that someone had your pin...

Then request to see the manager..probably no luck, go to the police and file a report..

Good luck

[BlackPuddingBertha]

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

As for the phantom withdrawal, does not the code on the passbook debit entry indicate how it was made? It does on all my Thai passbooks.

I check all my bank accounts online at least once a month, and any account with more than a small balance gets checked at least weekly. My main UK current account gets checked more or less daily, which allows me to move money to interest-bearing accounts as it arrives.

I find it advisable to ensure that my Thai ATM cards (which offer no fraud protection, unlike my UK cards) are only connected to an account with very little money in it. I have other accounts with the same banks for the bulk of my deposits. This means that no matter what happens, no one can ever withdraw large sums from my account via ATM fraud.

[dick]

According to the office manager the code does not indicate exact locations( which might not be the truth) but i have no way to decipher it if they can't. I don't see how the police would help if the bank itself isn't cooperating. I have been long enough here to know that police does't care about such things nor they are capable of investigating the bank on behalf of the farangs.

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

As for the phantom withdrawal, does not the code on the passbook debit entry indicate how it was made? It does on all my Thai passbooks.

I check all my bank accounts online at least once a month, and any account with more than a small balance gets checked at least weekly. My main UK current account gets checked more or less daily, which allows me to move money to interest-bearing accounts as it arrives.

I find it advisable to ensure that my Thai ATM cards (which offer no fraud protection, unlike my UK cards) are only connected to an account with very little money in it. I have other accounts with the same banks for the bulk of my deposits. This means that no matter what happens, no one can ever withdraw large sums from my account via ATM fraud.

[phuket43]

In principle, there is no protection in Thailand for this kind of fraud. Select a bank which provides SMS alerts weekly, showing the balance of your account. They will also have a SMS service for withdrawals exceeding a certain amount, lets say Baht 1000 or more. That is the only way to safeguard yourself in Thailand.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

According to the office manager the code does not indicate exact locations( which might not be the truth) but i have no way to decipher it if they can't. I don't see how the police would help if the bank itself isn't cooperating. I have been long enough here to know that police does't care about such things nor they are capable of investigating the bank on behalf of the farangs.

The code doesnt show precise information but it does show (at least in my passbooks) whether it was cash or ATM or direct debit etc. My online banking also shows this.

The police will chase up the bank if you complain though you may be dead from old age before it goes to court. I have a friend in Pattaya who is in the process of trying to recover (some of) the 300,000B he lost in an ATM fraud.

[BlackPuddingBertha]

In principle, there is no protection in Thailand for this kind of fraud. Select a bank which provides SMS alerts weekly, showing the balance of your account. They will also have a SMS service for withdrawals exceeding a certain amount, lets say Baht 1000 or more. That is the only way to safeguard yourself in Thailand.

Too right. I have instant SMS warnings on my account that is linked to an ATM. Until recently it was a free service and I now pay 10B month for it.

And no one can touch my bank books apart from me but I still update them regularly, even when I know there have been no movements since the last time.

As you say, any consumer protection here is so close to zero as to be indistinguishable from it. So you just have to take every possible precaution yourself and the devil take the hindmost.

[Mystery Machine]

Hi Dick,

so you still have the receipt from the deposit? if so, make sure you make a copy of it, go to your home branch where you opened the account with a Thai who can speak English and who you trust just incase the manager does not speak English. Show then the original receipt but give them the copy! and take it from there.

As a point, sometimes when I have not updated my book for a long time when they do update it, they won't show all the transactions, they just summarize the totals because if it is a busy account like mine there maybe 400 transactions over the course of a few months.

If no joy from the branch call the helpline they speak good English and it will take about 2 days for them to investigate but they will get back to you with answers. They are very helpful.

Let us know how you get on

[dighambara]

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

As for the phantom withdrawal, does not the code on the passbook debit entry indicate how it was made? It does on all my Thai passbooks.

I check all my bank accounts online at least once a month, and any account with more than a small balance gets checked at least weekly. My main UK current account gets checked more or less daily, which allows me to move money to interest-bearing accounts as it arrives.

I find it advisable to ensure that my Thai ATM cards (which offer no fraud protection, unlike my UK cards) are only connected to an account with very little money in it. I have other accounts with the same banks for the bulk of my deposits. This means that no matter what happens, no one can ever withdraw large sums from my account via ATM fraud.

WOW is right - Why would anyone keep a large amount in an ATM account..?? Keep most money in a pasbook savings account and transfer when you need to. Alwas keep ATM accounts at a bare bones minimum.

[topt]

I believe in another thread several members were saying that K bank has quite a good Internet banking service. If you have not signed up for that maybe you ought to and it may show location of withdrawals - SCB internet banking gives the actual address pretty much of the ATM used.

Also it must be a coincidence there is another thread (from a new poster)about someone losing 150k from Bangkok Bank although different circumstances.........

[AnotherOneAmerican]

In principle, there is no protection in Thailand for this kind of fraud. Select a bank which provides SMS alerts weekly, showing the balance of your account. They will also have a SMS service for withdrawals exceeding a certain amount, lets say Baht 1000 or more. That is the only way to safeguard yourself in Thailand.

TMB sends an SMS to your phone for every transaction on your account.

The SMS arrives within seconds of the transaction, usually before the card is spit out of the machine or while you are still at the counter.

Costs 10bht a month for the service, well worth having.

Oh, what dhb says, large money in passbook only savings account, no internet, no ATM, Transactions by ID+Passbook+you at bank desk only.

Edited May 9, 2013 by AnotherOneAmerican

[oxo1947]

Are you sure you didn't take it out---- after working in a bank complaints dep for some years--as funny as that may seem it is usually the answer ...especially in Thailand where people are out & about eating/ drinking etc & do not keep track of Times = frequencies of there ATM withdrawals etc so much .

Edited May 9, 2013 by oxo1947

[bobbyd1]

I set up SMS alerts anytime my bank account has been accessed through my iPhone APP and email account with BANGKOK BANK. At least this will flag you before it is too late.

Edited May 9, 2013 by bobbyd1

[impulse]

"I might haven been distracted by the phone call ,walking away without even checking receipt and the book."

Wow.

I always check every single receipt I am ever given, anywhere in the world, and I have noted an astonishing number of errors on them. And not necessarily to my detriment.

As for the phantom withdrawal, does not the code on the passbook debit entry indicate how it was made? It does on all my Thai passbooks.

I check all my bank accounts online at least once a month, and any account with more than a small balance gets checked at least weekly. My main UK current account gets checked more or less daily, which allows me to move money to interest-bearing accounts as it arrives.

I find it advisable to ensure that my Thai ATM cards (which offer no fraud protection, unlike my UK cards) are only connected to an account with very little money in it. I have other accounts with the same banks for the bulk of my deposits. This means that no matter what happens, no one can ever withdraw large sums from my account via ATM fraud.

WOW is right - Why would anyone keep a large amount in an ATM account..?? Keep most money in a pasbook savings account and transfer when you need to. Alwas keep ATM accounts at a bare bones minimum.

Then get hit by a bus on a Saturday night when the banks are closed and the hospital demands payment before they will treat you? No thanks. Almost lost my GF because she urgently needed blood that night and the banks were closed. Insurance eventually reimbursed, but had a neighbor not loaned me $2000 that night, she wouldn't have survived until the banks opened. Yeah, it's a one-off, but served me notice. I'm not in Kansas any more.

Get the SMS service that texts you when there's any activity. My phone usually buzzes before I even get the card out of the ATM.

[lorbhaim]

Wow.

Very serious.

Very Disturbing.

Gather all Papers and documents.

Try to connect one of 3 possibilities: Talk to a senior officer in the ban to see what happened.

Write to the Bank internal controller.

Write to the Bank Of Thailand

[scorecard]

Hi Dick,

so you still have the receipt from the deposit? if so, make sure you make a copy of it, go to your home branch where you opened the account with a Thai who can speak English and who you trust just incase the manager does not speak English. Show then the original receipt but give them the copy! and take it from there.

As a point, sometimes when I have not updated my book for a long time when they do update it, they won't show all the transactions, they just summarize the totals because if it is a busy account like mine there maybe 400 transactions over the course of a few months.

If no joy from the branch call the helpline they speak good English and it will take about 2 days for them to investigate but they will get back to you with answers. They are very helpful.

Let us know how you get on

Agree about the K Bank help line, they are pretty good, also the K Bank on-line support process is pretty good.

However, seems to me that in the last few months there have been many reports (more than usual) of funds disappearing from savings accounts and especially where the accounts have ATM cards. And, from the reports, it seems little help from Thai banks when funds 'disappear'. Their line is 'you knew the risk when you accepted the ATM card'.

I recently spoke to my local bank manager (big branch) and he agreed that banks do have serious problems with security in terms of the ease which people can steal information at ATM machines and the incidence is increasing, and of course there is always the possibility, any where in the world, that a bank employee is involved in theft of depositors funds.

So I've just opened a new savings account without an ATM card, and transferred 99% of my funds into the new accounts. My adult Thai son also wrote on the side of the application form "This account cannot be issued an ATM card", my son signed the statement and demanded that the bank officer also sign it and write her name in block characters. (My son is always polite but has a shorter fuse with bank staff. The bank officer concerned was clearly annoyed at what my son wrote on the application form and initially tried to insist that customers are not allowed to write things on bank documents. A few direct (but polite) words from my son to remind her that she was there to listen to and respond to customers did the trick.)

A bit of a nuisance to have to go inside the bank to transfer small amounts to my account that does have an ATM card but worth the small hassle for better security.

[RayHaas]

Just visit the head office. They will deal with this matter fast

[Pib]

According to the office manager the code does not indicate exact locations( which might not be the truth) but i have no way to decipher it if they can't. I don't see how the police would help if the bank itself isn't cooperating. I have been long enough here to know that police does't care about such things nor they are capable of investigating the bank on behalf of the farangs.

The code doesnt show precise information but it does show (at least in my passbooks) whether it was cash or ATM or direct debit etc. My online banking also shows this.

The police will chase up the bank if you complain though you may be dead from old age before it goes to court. I have a friend in Pattaya who is in the process of trying to recover (some of) the 300,000B he lost in an ATM fraud.

The bank can see exacting which ATM the money was withdrawn from and the date/time in their detailed records and that ATM has an exact location on this Earth, but the customer will only see a code saying what kind of withdrawal it was such as an ATM withdrawal.

[lannarebirth]

If I were you, before I found out what happened to my money, I'd secure the funds you still have with Kasikorn by tranfering it elsewhere. Kasikorn is perhaps the worlds worst bank. Certainly the worst I've ever experienced.

[artvarkk]

I added online service to my account. Best thing ever. When a withdrawal or deposit is made, I get an automated SMS message on my phone showing the amount. When I withdraw money from the ATM, my phone buzzes before the money even comes out of the machine!

[Stjohnm]

I check my account regularly through the Bangkok Bank phone Banking when I can't get to a passbook updating machine, I have the SMS alert as well

[dick]

Unfortunately could not find any receipt.It was either not given to me or i 've lost it. As i 've said earlier i might have been distracted that moment so i don't remember if i had a receipt at all. Normally i am very attentive but there are moments..

Hi Dick,

so you still have the receipt from the deposit? if so, make sure you make a copy of it, go to your home branch where you opened the account with a Thai who can speak English and who you trust just incase the manager does not speak English. Show then the original receipt but give them the copy! and take it from there.

As a point, sometimes when I have not updated my book for a long time when they do update it, they won't show all the transactions, they just summarize the totals because if it is a busy account like mine there maybe 400 transactions over the course of a few months.

If no joy from the branch call the helpline they speak good English and it will take about 2 days for them to investigate but they will get back to you with answers. They are very helpful.

Let us know how you get on

[MoonShadow]

Kasikorn do have a very good on-line service which enables you to see every transaction going back 3 months; as stated earlier in this thread every ATM has a discrete identifying number so yes they will know the date, time and location of every transaction. The receipt will be printed with the destination account which should correspond with whatever you wrote on the deposit slip; if it isn't the same the cashier should have queried it at the time. If you still have the deposit slip check it and go back to the bank. If the slip says the same as your bank a/c details then it was credited to your account but maybe summarised in a block amount if there are a lot of unprinted transactions. Either way there is a paper trail you can follow.

[dick]

This is probably the only effective action remains because locas staff is totally dismissive. I can't figure out which one of the 3 head offices on their webpage is a main one?

Just visit the head office. They will deal with this matter fast

[F4UCorsair]

I added online service to my account. Best thing ever. When a withdrawal or deposit is made, I get an automated SMS message on my phone showing the amount. When I withdraw money from the ATM, my phone buzzes before the money even comes out of the machine!

This sounds like a great service, but what can you do if you receive an sms at midnight Saturday night indicating your account is being plundered? Is there a number you can call to get the bank on the job then and there, or the police, or....anybody? Maybe that's covered further up the thread, and if so, sorry. I haven't read it all.

[fxe1200]

Just visit the head office. They will deal with this matter fast

The behaving of the Kasikorn Bank or their staff is typical. It took me three months to receive a refund of bank fees, which were unjustifiably retained by the Kasikorn Bank. I had to contact CRM department in BKK to get this case done.

[laislica]

Kasikorn bank link to your regular phone.

It gives a one time pass code in an SMS to validate transfers out of your account to "Others" account.

You get SMS for every ATM withdrawal, followed by the balance of the account in an SMS.

You can even have email sent to you to show transfers.

The online service is very good too.

Bangkok Bank send the same SMS messages to your phone and with their online service, you will be sent an email advising you that someone has just accessed your online account.

Get online asap

open another savings account - not linked to your ATM card.

Add the new account to your online access (It takes a few days to validate your online request and you need to take copies of passport etc to the branch and fill in forms.....

Then transfer the bulk of your funds to the non ATM linked account as suggested by Bertha.

Good luck

[uty6543]

Are you sure you didn't take it out---- after working in a bank complaints dep for some years--as funny as that may seem it is usually the answer ...especially in Thailand where people are out & about eating/ drinking etc & do not keep track of Times = frequencies of there ATM withdrawals etc so much .

oxo is right most times it is the customer that has just forgotten so you are the first suspect and if it wasn't you the next most likely is a member of your household or your card may have been skimmed and lastly if it wasn't someone with or without your permission then bank error is a remote possibility

[mikebell]

Just visit the head office. They will deal with this matter fast

Not so. I had a number of ATM withdrawals from my BKK bank account. The statement listed the locations of the machines. Some were in Sattahip where I rarely go; others in out-of-the way places in Pattaya. The officer/manager at the main branch was utterly unsympathetic and shoulder-shruggingly unconcerned. Told me to change my password. I reckon I lost 70K.