Chalerm Is Right On Poor Police Work In South

[Lite Beer]

EDITORIAL
Chalerm is right on poor police work in South
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Law enforcement officials need to review their methodology in charging and trying suspected militants

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung is not known for being a man who makes a lot of good sense. But when he does, his words can be a breath of fresh air. Over this past week, Chalerm raised the question over why the vast majority of charges against suspected militants in the deep South are dismissed when they reach court. Was it the content of the investigation into various incidents or allegations?

According to Chalerm, more than 3,000 warrants have been issued against suspected insurgents. Besides asking law enforcers to review their methodology, the deputy PM also said authorities should review all of these cases.

And if officials believe that these allegations won't hold up in a court of law, they should drop the charges.

Chalerm was correct to point out that a review of these cases does not amount to a blanket amnesty or a revocation of the warrants that stemmed from the Emergency Law and criminal code.

Without saying so, the deputy prime minister is suggesting that police work has not been up to standard and therefore, it is understandable why the local Malay Muslim communities in the deep South do not have much faith in the justice system.

Access to justice and faith in the system have long been a problem between the Muslim-majority region and the Thai state. If Malays feel they can trust the ground rules, then it is very likely that they will no longer entertain a separatist ideology.

According to official sources, the idea of reviewing the charges in the deep South has been around for about three years. It was spearheaded by a group of reformist bureaucrats in the Justice Ministry and other like-minded officials.

Many felt that official bias in handling cases was chipping away at the legitimacy of the state.

In the thinking of the reform-minded officers, the key to permanent peace is to negotiate the terms for peaceful coexistence with Malay Muslim people in the southernmost provinces.

Such a comfort level, once established, must be managed so that Malays don't feel that they are being mistreated. It's no secret that generation after generation of insurgents employed historical grievances to motivate militants to take up arms.

Besides justice, there is also the issue of equality - ways and means to uplift the livelihood and social standing of Patani Malays so that they feel they have a stake in the country and a shared destination with other people in the country.

Right now, the deep South feels like an occupied territory and Malays see themselves as colonial subjects. With the huge presence of security officials there and the high number of Buddhist bureaucrats from other regions, such feelings are understandable.

But Chalerm and Bangkok must be careful not to send the wrong message to the general public. If they are not careful, the dropping of flimsy charges could be misinterpreted as the state being too lenient on the militants.

If that is the case, one can be certain that Buddhist vigilantes and/or pro-government death squads could take matters into their own hands and begin "taking out" suspects who no longer face charges.

Many observers believe the recent killing of Lukan Daloh on May 9 in Pattani was such a case. Here was a young man who had been fighting an allegation that he was a separatist militant in court for more than two years. But when word got out that his case could be dismissed, somebody decided to take him out. His 12-year-old brother who was sitting next to him in the truck was also murdered.

-- The Nation 2013-05-19

[sjjmmi]

Been on the ear drops again have we

[bigbamboo]

Where are those police who worked on the war on drugs? They knew how to get results.

[NongKhaiKid]

I take it Chalerm is discreetly overlooking he's supposed to be in charge of the police and has special responsibility for the south although one visit, having been forced to go, is hardly hands on. It's also telling that the body involved in negotiations etc has deliberately sidelined him.

[LuckyLew]

Police work due to lack of leadership from Chalerm

Coconut does not fall far from the tree

Chalerm motto must be "Do as I say ... not as I do"

[hellodolly]

Sounded to me like he was trying to lay some of the blame on Malaysia. He was actually all over the board.

What the heck was he talking about

"In the thinking of the reform-minded officers, the key to permanent
peace is to negotiate the terms for peaceful coexistence with Malay
Muslim people in the southernmost provinces."

I was not aware there was a large population of Malay Muslim's living in Thailand are they considered expats?

I thought the terrorists were made up of Thai extremist Muslims. Possibly a few from over the border.

I think he should maybe look at a different brand of ear medicine. This was just a cry to let him run the show again. Since Yingluck took control over he has been trying to look like he really wants the job back.

But he was right the policing could be tightened up. I wonder who he could talk about that to?

[Thai at Heart]

Surely this issue lies with the prosecuters.

Why are they pursuing cases if there is no hope of conviction?

[worgeordie]

Maybe trying to convict on evidence of bomb detectors,

regards Worgeordie

[A Member]

Surely this issue lies with the prosecuters.

Why are they pursuing cases if there is no hope of conviction?

Yes exactly. As I understand it, other than minor cases which the police are wrongly allowed to issue fines and i don't mean traffic tickets, all cases go to a prosecutor to ensure the charge is correct, there's a sufficiency of evidence and so on. Chalerm isn't going to get loyalty and support if he blames his own people for something that isn't their fault for once, the BIB are experts at screwing up at the best of times and don't need unwarranted flak.

[A Member]

Not the best of times for Chalerm as the media are reporting at lease one PTP MP is saying his reconciliation bill will not get red shirt support since he proposes a universal amnesty and the reds want punishment for those they hold responsible for the deaths in 2010.

Two points in this for me, a) Chalerm's do anything to get Thaksin back scheme is unraveling and he and others PTP might slowly be learning the red monster they created, nurture and protect is turning into a monster they will not be able to control and will finally turn on them as the tail wags the dog.

[chainarong]

Chalerm, is quiet correct in saying the clean up rate is due to poor police work, however lets not stop in the South, this could be said for all of Thailand, most are not the smartest card in the pack and for this you do not blame on the police officers , you blame the education system and how convenient for Chalerm, he has a foot in both institutions, this sub- standard education will not only implicate the police force, but almost all other areas of Thai society, unless you address this anomaly you basically are ,in this day of advanced tech knowledge, raising a nation of dumb dumbs ,compared to western education, ( reference only), this short fall can also be addressed , like Indonesia did , by learning and being taught by other western , countries police forces, namely the AFP.

[rfukata]

Where are those police who worked on the war on drugs? They knew how to get results.

yes in a way, but some times I think the drug enforcement cops may get a cut from the drug proceeds whereas in the south

its a different story.

[Halion]

Another pathetic outburst from this mindless puppet. The only salient point is that the RTP as a whole is a mediocre and poorly ran organisation. Futhdermore , he should be critisizing the justice department as they are the ones who determine whether or not there is substantive evidence to prosecute in court.

His article also suggest that the muslim populaion should be viewed in a different light in the south from their Buddhist neighbours. Whose side is he on.

[moe666]

Sounded to me like he was trying to lay some of the blame on Malaysia. He was actually all over the board.

What the heck was he talking about

"In the thinking of the reform-minded officers, the key to permanent

peace is to negotiate the terms for peaceful coexistence with Malay

Muslim people in the southernmost provinces."

I was not aware there was a large population of Malay Muslim's living in Thailand are they considered expats?

I thought the terrorists were made up of Thai extremist Muslims. Possibly a few from over the border.

I think he should maybe look at a different brand of ear medicine. This was just a cry to let him run the show again. Since Yingluck took control over he has been trying to look like he really wants the job back.

But he was right the policing could be tightened up. I wonder who he could talk about that to?

The south population is made up of people with malay ethnic background and they are by in large of the muslim religion. That is why Thailand sending ethnic Thais and Buddhist to teach school and hold most of the government positions is a sore point with them. No these people are not expats but citizens of Thailand

[tomross46]

Chalerm, is quiet correct in saying the clean up rate is due to poor police work, however lets not stop in the South, this could be said for all of Thailand, most are not the smartest card in the pack and for this you do not blame on the police officers , you blame the education system and how convenient for Chalerm, he has a foot in both institutions, this sub- standard education will not only implicate the police force, but almost all other areas of Thai society, unless you address this anomaly you basically are ,in this day of advanced tech knowledge, raising a nation of dumb dumbs ,compared to western education, ( reference only), this short fall can also be addressed , like Indonesia did , by learning and being taught by other western , countries police forces, namely the AFP.

At one time the education requirements for a police officer was P6, elementary school.

[hellodolly]

Sounded to me like he was trying to lay some of the blame on Malaysia. He was actually all over the board.

What the heck was he talking about

"In the thinking of the reform-minded officers, the key to permanent

peace is to negotiate the terms for peaceful coexistence with Malay

Muslim people in the southernmost provinces."

I was not aware there was a large population of Malay Muslim's living in Thailand are they considered expats?

I thought the terrorists were made up of Thai extremist Muslims. Possibly a few from over the border.

I think he should maybe look at a different brand of ear medicine. This was just a cry to let him run the show again. Since Yingluck took control over he has been trying to look like he really wants the job back.

But he was right the policing could be tightened up. I wonder who he could talk about that to?

The south population is made up of people with malay ethnic background and they are by in large of the muslim religion. That is why Thailand sending ethnic Thais and Buddhist to teach school and hold most of the government positions is a sore point with them. No these people are not expats but citizens of Thailand

I knew that. It was a kind of tongue in cheek way of saying Chalerm is really clueless. The only way the PT can get more comical in there approach to the problem( They use a plan of the month club) is to let Jatuporn into the cabinet. I do think one successful program would be to turn it over to Thaksin with him directing it from an office in a province of his choice in the deep south.

Might not solve all the problem but would go a long way towards it as well as a few other problems in Thailand,

[billd766]

Chalerm, is quiet correct in saying the clean up rate is due to poor police work, however lets not stop in the South, this could be said for all of Thailand, most are not the smartest card in the pack and for this you do not blame on the police officers , you blame the education system and how convenient for Chalerm, he has a foot in both institutions, this sub- standard education will not only implicate the police force, but almost all other areas of Thai society, unless you address this anomaly you basically are ,in this day of advanced tech knowledge, raising a nation of dumb dumbs ,compared to western education, ( reference only), this short fall can also be addressed , like Indonesia did , by learning and being taught by other western , countries police forces, namely the AFP.

At one time the education requirements for a police officer was P6, elementary school.

There could be a lob for my son soon if P6 is the standard. He is a bit short for the height regulatrion and he won'y be 9 until August but he has to start somewhere. right?

[ramrod711]

Deputy Prime Minister Chalerm Yubamrung is not known for being a man who makes a lot of good sense. But when he does, his words can be a breath of fresh air.

Completely agree with the first sentence.

Chalerm was correct to point out that a review of these cases does not amount to a blanket amnesty or a revocation of the warrants that stemmed from the Emergency Law and criminal code.

Nobody would want a blanket amnesty for criminal behavior.......right?

Chalerm is right on poor police work in South

UH,isn't he in charge? Has he been doing a bad job?

[chainarong]

Chalerm, is quiet correct in saying the clean up rate is due to poor police work, however lets not stop in the South, this could be said for all of Thailand, most are not the smartest card in the pack and for this you do not blame on the police officers , you blame the education system and how convenient for Chalerm, he has a foot in both institutions, this sub- standard education will not only implicate the police force, but almost all other areas of Thai society, unless you address this anomaly you basically are ,in this day of advanced tech knowledge, raising a nation of dumb dumbs ,compared to western education, ( reference only), this short fall can also be addressed , like Indonesia did , by learning and being taught by other western , countries police forces, namely the AFP.

At one time the education requirements for a police officer was P6, elementary school.

You need a degree in Oz for forensics

[Dap]

What a weird headline to read. "Chalerm is right ..."

[wiyada]

Another pathetic outburst from this mindless puppet. The only salient point is that the RTP as a whole is a mediocre and poorly ran organisation. Futhdermore , he should be critisizing the justice department as they are the ones who determine whether or not there is substantive evidence to prosecute in court.

His article also suggest that the muslim populaion should be viewed in a different light in the south from their Buddhist neighbours. Whose side is he on.

How can you blame the justice department if the evidence they are presented with by the RTP is not good enough to ensure a fair chance of conviction ? What are you on ?

So we treat Muslims the same as the Christians in the rest of the world, of course they will be treated differently, ever heard of the Jihad or Sharia law ? The fundamentalists trying to change the law of the land they are in, who is going to sit by and let that happen. Just look at recent history.

[TheGhostWithin]

As someone that visits the south, and has been to the south more times than Chalerm I can say that he is right, but he is also wrong.

I know REAL Police in the south, and often stay near to some of the very dangerous parts of the South (Raman in Yala), and also stay in Pattani.

Evidence is often difficult to gather, as tampering with the scene by onlookers and supporters is commonplace. The police are under-resourced in terms of man power because it is much easier to sit on your backside in Bangkok and get kick backs for allowing bars to open late and road side bars to serve (2,500 baht per month per bar I am told) than to have to risk being shot or bombed while investigating the scene of a shooting or bombing in the south. There are no kick backs here, no Benzes and no go go bars to hide from the family at, your reward is getting home to your wife and children at the end of the day, and being able to share another evening with them.

Perhaps Chalerm could head down to Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat (hey, he could do them all at once by road as most normal people do) and hide in the sand bagged Police stations and find out what is really going on. Perhaps he could risk missing lunch and actually head out to the scene with the brave men on the beats of the south and see what they have to face. Maybe you will understand how hard it is to drive out of the station not really knowing if you are going to come back or not, and who is waiting for you and on which corner they are waiting. Maybe then you will understand why Thailand is rated as the country 9th most susceptible to terrorism in the world, maybe then you might consult all sides and find a way out of this mess.

Just don't turn your phone on when you are driving between provinces in the south, Khun Chalerm, you might find yourself a victim of a roadside bomb - no sir, I'm not joking, they really do have them down there. Then again, you probably won't listen to a FARANG, you'd rather be hit by the bomb.

[Pi Sek]

Excellent post (edit to add - ^^ TheGhostWithin's post above).

I too am familiar with the Deep South, much moreso than Chalerm. I am most acquainted with Narathiwat as I did a big job down there a few years ago.

Chalerm is right that, based on a ceteris paribus assumption, then poor police work will result in less convictions. However one cannot work on a ceteris paribus assumption because, as is the crux of your point, all other things are not equal.

Chalerm knows only too well and first-hand that reminding witnesses of repercussions can result in a case where the accused is blatantly guilty of murder getting thrown out due to lack of evidence.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Pi Sek

[SABloke]

Sounded to me like he was trying to lay some of the blame on Malaysia. He was actually all over the board.

What the heck was he talking about

"In the thinking of the reform-minded officers, the key to permanent

peace is to negotiate the terms for peaceful coexistence with Malay

Muslim people in the southernmost provinces."

I was not aware there was a large population of Malay Muslim's living in Thailand are they considered expats?

I thought the terrorists were made up of Thai extremist Muslims. Possibly a few from over the border.

I think he should maybe look at a different brand of ear medicine. This was just a cry to let him run the show again. Since Yingluck took control over he has been trying to look like he really wants the job back.

But he was right the policing could be tightened up. I wonder who he could talk about that to?

"Malay" is not the demonym for Malaysia - it refers to a language widely spoken throughout SEA.

[kimamey]

Chalerm, is quiet correct in saying the clean up rate is due to poor police work, however lets not stop in the South, this could be said for all of Thailand, most are not the smartest card in the pack and for this you do not blame on the police officers , you blame the education system and how convenient for Chalerm, he has a foot in both institutions, this sub- standard education will not only implicate the police force, but almost all other areas of Thai society, unless you address this anomaly you basically are ,in this day of advanced tech knowledge, raising a nation of dumb dumbs ,compared to western education, ( reference only), this short fall can also be addressed , like Indonesia did , by learning and being taught by other western , countries police forces, namely the AFP.

At one time the education requirements for a police officer was P6, elementary school.

There could be a lob for my son soon if P6 is the standard. He is a bit short for the height regulatrion and he won'y be 9 until August but he has to start somewhere. right?

If he keeps asking you for money I'd get him to apply now.

[billd766]

Chalerm, is quiet correct in saying the clean up rate is due to poor police work, however lets not stop in the South, this could be said for all of Thailand, most are not the smartest card in the pack and for this you do not blame on the police officers , you blame the education system and how convenient for Chalerm, he has a foot in both institutions, this sub- standard education will not only implicate the police force, but almost all other areas of Thai society, unless you address this anomaly you basically are ,in this day of advanced tech knowledge, raising a nation of dumb dumbs ,compared to western education, ( reference only), this short fall can also be addressed , like Indonesia did , by learning and being taught by other western , countries police forces, namely the AFP.

At one time the education requirements for a police officer was P6, elementary school.

There could be a lob for my son soon if P6 is the standard. He is a bit short for the height regulatrion and he won'y be 9 until August but he has to start somewhere. right?

If he keeps asking you for money I'd get him to apply now.

I don't think he can afford the 300,000 baht going rate to 'ensure" a pass mark but the actual exam can't be that hard.

After all just look at the senior policemen there are now such as Chalerm.

[Thongkorn]

Where are those police who worked on the war on drugs? They knew how to get results.

so shooting people in the back is a result, thought that's why the police and Army are there to stop.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Thongkorn

[TheGhostWithin]

Where are those police who worked on the war on drugs? They knew how to get results.

so shooting people in the back is a result, thought that's why the police and Army are there to stop.

They were shot from all directions in the jungles of the south, and they were not innocent drug users that lost their lives in the South. The war against drugs was successful in the south because it targeted the importers and distributors, not the end user. If there was less product, there were less people becoming addicted due to lack of supply and higher price.

The problem in the South now really is about drugs, as the activities of the army have been restricted so much by the government and their political jockeying that active operations are now far less frequent on the border. This means that Malaysian militant organisations operate with impunity from Malaysia in dealing with local Thai militant movements such as those being negotiated with at the moment by the government to smuggle people, drugs and weapons over both borders.

Why are the Malaysians not arresting militants which the Thais know for a fact reside in hiding in Malaysia, fleeing after committing their acts, only to return later to do the same thing again? Why do the Malaysians not have their army working on the border as the Thais have? Why are there virtually no drugs seizures on the Malaysian side of the border? The answer is that they realise that while they sit there and do nothing, non-Muslims will fight the war against their "miscreants" and die for them, and fund the resistance. There are also elements within the Malaysian government which questionably support the militant movement along the border, as it would be easier for Malaysia to have an openly Muslim state along their borders than a well armed, well trained and combat exposed, politically unstable non-Muslim neighbor with touchy past relations.

[spidermike007]

Poor police work in the south? How about the north, in the capital, and elsewhere in the country. In essence he is at fault. Part of the problem is lack of funding. He is in a position to change that. But, this incompetent guy, who stands up on his soapbox at every opportunity, and spends each and every day not improving the lives of the average Thai, would rather mouth off, and do nothing.

When the police are found doing things that would get them jailed in most civilized nations, here they are transferred, with full pay, to another station, with a pat on the back. Don't worry, this will blow over. You can come back with full honors. In China they would be executed. In Indonesia, or Malaysia, they would be given 5-15 years in prison, and the families would be fined over a million baht. Here, they are transferred. This kind of nonsense will continue FOREVER, unless Thailand somehow, somewhere, sometime, figures out that it is of vital importance to establish effective law and order, of they will go the way of Mali, or Timor. Irrelevancy to the planet. As of now, the government continues to refuse to give the police proper attention, or funding. The forensic department remain some of the most underfunded, and least capable on earth. There are fewer qualified detectives per capita, than most nations. It is no wonder they have such a hard time solving tough cases. That appears to be the direction they so desperately want to head, based on their leaders fabulously myopic lack of vision. In some places like Koh Samui, they are notorious for rarely ever solving a crime, and seem to be compromised at every level. There appears to be no accountability at all. Shame on the central and the state governments for not caring more.