Scabies?

sms747 · May 23, 2013

Pretty sure have it on my hands but no luck in getting an medication as pharmacists do not seem to understand what scabies is and give me stuff for skin irritation. What is the Thai word for scabies and what should I ask for? I did copy a couple of things off the internet for it but 'no have'

Jingthing · May 23, 2013

Lindane will be on offer.

Be careful with it!

If used improperly, it can kill people. It's banned in some countries.

The best treatment is PERMETHRIN cream. I think not on offer in Thailand. Which is totally CRAZY!

Assuming the global preferred treatment for scabies PERMETHRIN cream is still not on offer in Thailand, can someone who understands the Thai drug system explain why that is, and why the more toxic Lindane is what they push here?

You can also try this:

http://www.ehow.com/how_7266382_use-benzyl-benzoate.html

You will find it in Thailand. It is REALLY for lice, not scabies, is not considered a primary choice (or even proven effective) internationally for scabies. However, it is safer than Lindane.

You're probably going to be stuck with Lindane.

Do not use on warm moist skin right after bathing. That is important.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Jingthing

jrtmedic · May 23, 2013

I believe Lindane (Hexin) is available. Read the information insert before use

Edited May 23, 2013 by jrtmedic

Jingthing · May 23, 2013

I believe Lindane (Hexin) is available.

Yes, should be easily available all over Thailand.

What you really want though is Permethrin for scabies STRONGER strength (I think some places have a lice strength one, no good) and I think you won't find it in Thailand.

If the itching is on the inside webbing of your fingers, it is more likely to be scabies. Also if it itches much more at night, more likely to be scabies. If it stops you from sleeping, strong sign of scabies. A lot of doctors all over the world will treat for scabies even without fully verifying it clinically. It can be hard to get the scrapes to see the tiny buggies.

Of course itching/rashes can be a number of other things than scabies.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Jingthing

sms747 · May 23, 2013

thanks guys

Jingthing · May 23, 2013

If you have asthma, be extra careful with Lindane. Research the directions well before using.

katana · May 23, 2013

Scabies - HIT (low tone) หิด

puuchai299 · May 24, 2013

Some pharmacies still sell Jakutin gel here,may have to shop around to get it..

Sheryl · May 24, 2013

There used to be bernzyl benzoate solution available, white stuff in a bottle, generic. Not sure if still sold but can try it. Large bottle.

Jingthing · May 24, 2013

Some pharmacies still sell Jakutin gel here,may have to shop around to get it..image.jpg

One of the brand names for the Lindane chemical that yes is sold in Thailand.

Again, what's with the very TOXIC Lindane in Thailand?

Why isn't there PERMETHRIN scabies strength in Thailand?

According to wiki, Lindane is banned in 52 countries and restricted in 33 others. In Thailand, not only not restricted but its generally the only real choice.

Thaivisa: your go to place for scabies info!

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

jrtmedic · May 24, 2013

The bans are associated, in the main, with the use of "Lindane" as an agricultural chemical.

The US FDA still permits the use of Lindane as a treatment for scabies albeit as a second line choice.

If used correctly and in accordance with the manufacturers instructions Lidane is safe for the treatment of scabies in adults.

Jingthing · May 24, 2013

The bans are associated, in the main, with the use of "Lindane" as an agricultural chemical.

The US FDA still permits the use of Lindane as a treatment for scabies albeit as a second line choice.

If used correctly and in accordance with the manufacturers instructions Lidane is safe for the treatment of scabies in adults.

Right. As a SECOND line choice. It is not the ideal choice and it is very toxic and especially risky for asthmatics. There are lots of asthmatics in Thailand. Again, why isn't Permethrin available in Thailand? In my understanding, Permethrin is the consensus international first line choice.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

jrtmedic · May 24, 2013

Don't ask me ! Best if you direct your question to the Thai FDA

Maybe you are overstating your case !

" FDA has determined that Lindane products have benefits that outweigh risks when used as directed. Most serious adverse events reported in association with Lindane products have been due to misuse" (Ref below)

Here is the US FDA's full stated position !

http://www.fda.gov/Drugs/DrugSafety/PostmarketDrugSafetyInformationforPatientsandProviders/ucm110845.htm

Edited May 24, 2013 by jrtmedic

Jingthing · May 24, 2013

Don't ask me ! Best if you direct your question to the Thai FDA

I just figured because you had the word medic in your name that you were the authority. I'm joking.

Some things still really amaze me about Thailand, like some policies that seem designed to not do the best for their own people.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Jingthing

kingq · July 26, 2013

A more natural method. Borax and Hydrogen Peroxide. http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/scabies.html#BH2O2

I also have Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth for sale that kills mites very quickly and is safe for humans.

Jingthing · July 26, 2013

A more natural method. Borax and Hydrogen Peroxide. http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/scabies.html#BH2O2

I also have Food Grade Diatomaceous Earth for sale that kills mites very quickly and is safe for humans.

Good luck sourcing Borax in Thailand ...

frodo77 · July 27, 2013

Can you buy PERMETHRIN over the counter in North America?

Jingthing · July 27, 2013

Can you buy PERMETHRIN over the counter in North America?

This link indicates the cream which is used for total body applications (as opposed to just the head) is not OTC in the U.S.

I think in the U.S. it's basically, lice OTC, scabies see a doc.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a698037.html

Sheryl · July 28, 2013

Neem oil works though you may find it hard to locate here.

HomePro sells it for use as an insecticide and I suppose no reason why same stuff couldn't be put on skin. Smells awful but is completely non-toxic.

You might -- just might -- also be able to find neem soap in Indian shops.

GammaGlobulin · January 26

On 5/23/2013 at 9:03 PM, Jingthing said:

Lindane will be on offer.

Be careful with it!

If used improperly, it can kill people. It's banned in some countries.

The best treatment is PERMETHRIN cream. I think not on offer in Thailand. Which is totally CRAZY!

Assuming the global preferred treatment for scabies PERMETHRIN cream is still not on offer in Thailand, can someone who understands the Thai drug system explain why that is, and why the more toxic Lindane is what they push here?

You can also try this:

http://www.ehow.com/how_7266382_use-benzyl-benzoate.html

You will find it in Thailand. It is REALLY for lice, not scabies, is not considered a primary choice (or even proven effective) internationally for scabies. However, it is safer than Lindane.

You're probably going to be stuck with Lindane.

Do not use on warm moist skin right after bathing. That is important.

What about now?

Is Permethrin now available?

Just asking.

Jingthing · January 26

9 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

What about now?

Is Permethrin now available?

Just asking.

I do not know.

GammaGlobulin · January 26

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I do not know.

OK. Tks!

I will check it out and update you.

Permethrin topical application is the accepted treatment for scabies, as you know.

However, ivermectin (oral) is also sometimes used, even if it might not be FDA approved for this purpose in the USA.

(Note: An old post, but still a goodie, for sure!)

GammaGlobulin · January 26

On 7/27/2013 at 12:50 PM, Jingthing said:

This link indicates the cream which is used for total body applications (as opposed to just the head) is not OTC in the U.S.

I think in the U.S. it's basically, lice OTC, scabies see a doc.

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/meds/a698037.html

The WHO definitely swears by permethrin, as everybody knows.

ozimoron · January 26

47 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

The WHO definitely swears by permethrin, as everybody knows.

Permethrin is a commonly available naturally (originally derived from the chrysanthemum flower) occurring insecticide. There are specific scabies lotions available at any pharmacy, at least in the west. You need to apply it daily to your entire body (recommended) or at at least the affected areas. And wash clothes daily and bed sheets daily and hang them out in the sun. Do that for a week at least. Then continue applying lotion to the affected area until all itchiness is gone and then a week extra, likely a month. Scabies ar every hard to get rid of, don't think head lice.

Scabies is characterized by an extreme itchiness in an area like a forearm (in my case) followed by hard lumps which look exactly like you'd expect from a mite bite. The affected area moves slowly, typically in one direction. These comments only apply to an infection I had a few years ago. Usually contracted from dogs or kids.

Edited January 26 by ozimoron

GammaGlobulin · January 26

10 minutes ago, ozimoron said:

Permethrin is a commonly available naturally (originally derived from the chrysanthemum flower) occurring insecticide. There are specific scabies lotions available at any pharmacy, at least in the west. You need to apply it daily to your entire body (recommended) or at at least the affected areas. And wash clothes daily and bed sheets daily and hang them out in the sun. Do that for a week at least. Then continue applying lotion to the affected area until all itchiness is gone and then a week extra, likely a month. Scabies ar every hard to get rid of, don't think head lice.

Scabies is characterized by an extreme itchiness in an area like a forearm (in my case) followed by hard lumps which look exactly like you'd expect from a mite bite. The affected area moves slowly, typically in one direction. These comments only apply to an infection I had a few years ago. Usually contracted from dogs or kids.

Thanks for your caring, my friend.

Not sure if I might have scabies or some other skin condition.

Anyway, anytime I have any type of illness, I NEVER FOOL AROUND.... I just go to RAM Hospital to commune with the doctors there.

I have no need to self-diagnose and self-treat.

RAM is a very decent hospital that always provides me with excellent health care at a nominal cost.

Tks for your input.

Note: By the way, when I say I DO NOT FOOL AROUND....I am quoting Lead Belly. And Lead Belly was no fool:

Hospitals here in Thailand are super cheap and rather high quality, as well.

So....

Don't fool around.

HugoFastor · January 26

1 hour ago, GammaGlobulin said:

Thanks for your caring, my friend.

Not sure if I might have scabies or some other skin condition.

Anyway, anytime I have any type of illness, I NEVER FOOL AROUND.... I just go to RAM Hospital to commune with the doctors there.

I have no need to self-diagnose and self-treat.

RAM is a very decent hospital that always provides me with excellent health care at a nominal cost.

Tks for your input.

Note: By the way, when I say I DO NOT FOOL AROUND....I am quoting Lead Belly. And Lead Belly was no fool:

Hospitals here in Thailand are super cheap and rather high quality, as well.

So....

Don't fool around.

I got scabies in Thailand nearly 30 years ago. Presumably from some outdoor gym equipment I sat on while wearing short pants.

I had scabies once before overseas and so the terrible itching at night on my inner thighs was already familiar to me. So I immediately treated it with Lindane gel, but it didn't go away. So I ruled that out.

Then I went to see various different skin doctors and allergists in Thailand and got all kinds of wrong diagnosis. I was told I had things like folliculitis, heat rash, sweat rash, allergic reactions to all kinds of foods I eat regularly, etc. All a complete waste of time and only made the situation worse and more depressing because I wasn't getting any closer to getting rid of it.

Meanwhile, it went on for 9 months, often with very little restful sleep at night. It started becoming soul destroying. I persisted though and didn't give up trying to figure what it was and eventually I went to see another skin doctor (the 4th or 5th already at that point).

He didn't bother to look at the rash on my inner thighs and immediately asked me if I had itching between my fingers and so I said, yes, a little at times. So he took a straight razor and scraped along my knuckles and then stuck it under a microscope. Then he called me over to look for myself. It was indeed scabies and they were very unpleasant looking creatures. I told him I had treated for scabies already and he asked me how many times. I had only treated once with Lindane though and one needs to treat at least twice about 10-14 days apart and I had already forgotten the correct protocol from the first time I had it years prior.

The reason two treatments are needed is because the first treatment kills the live ones and the second treatment kills the eggs after they hatch, which aren't usually killed by the first treatment.

Needless to say you will also need to wash all bedding and towels and put everything in a hot clothing dryer, possibly more than once, and then possibly repeat after a week to be sure.

Two further things to note; Lindane isn't sold in pharmacies in Thailand anymore as far as I know because of its toxicity (it's an actual pesticide). Not sure what they use to treat it with now because my experience with it was so long ago. Presumably they have something else available that can kill them as easily.

Also, scabies don't bite. So they don't cause any hard bumps or welts like an insect bite. They only lay eggs under the skin and it's the eggs that cause the immense itching at night. If you scratch often and long enough then the area can get very inflamed and resemble many different kinds of rashes, thus making it harder to diagnose.

As someone said, it isn't an STD, but it can be spread by close human contact, clothing, towels, furniture, etc. In my case my partner (who was living with me at the time) never got it from me during that 9 month period. That was another reason I ruled out scabies because it usually spreads pretty fast to anyone else living within close quarters.

Best wishes with finding out what you have.

GammaGlobulin · January 26

3 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

I got scabies in Thailand nearly 30 years ago. Presumably from some outdoor gym equipment I sat on while wearing short pants.

Yes.

FOMITES

I think that many here might not understand this important term when it comes to the transmission of scabies.

So, be aware of this.

Tks.

Also...thanks for your story.

Edited January 26 by GammaGlobulin

GammaGlobulin · January 26

56 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

Then I went to see various different skin doctors and allergists in Thailand and got all kinds of wrong diagnosis. I was told I had things like folliculitis, heat rash, sweat rash, allergic reactions to all kinds of foods I eat regularly, etc. All a complete waste of time and only made the situation worse and more depressing because I wasn't getting any closer to getting rid of it.

OK.

I will be careful to find a doctor educated at World Class Med Schools, and now practicing on The Main Line.

Thank you.

Some physicians here might not be up to snuff, as you say.

Thank you.

https://bmmsa.com/

I used to go to this place.

Dynamite Doctors....

They can cure scabies in a heartbeat, and ...

Make you feel good about it,....too....

Sometimes, I miss living on The Main Line....

Edited January 26 by GammaGlobulin

GammaGlobulin · January 26

51 minutes ago, HugoFastor said:

I got scabies in Thailand nearly 30 years ago. Presumably from some outdoor gym equipment I sat on while wearing short pants.

I had scabies once before overseas and so the terrible itching at night on my inner thighs was already familiar to me. So I immediately treated it with Lindane gel, but it didn't go away. So I ruled that out.

Then I went to see various different skin doctors and allergists in Thailand and got all kinds of wrong diagnosis. I was told I had things like folliculitis, heat rash, sweat rash, allergic reactions to all kinds of foods I eat regularly, etc. All a complete waste of time and only made the situation worse and more depressing because I wasn't getting any closer to getting rid of it.

Meanwhile, it went on for 9 months, often with very little restful sleep at night. It started becoming soul destroying. I persisted though and didn't give up trying to figure what it was and eventually I went to see another skin doctor (the 4th or 5th already at that point).

He didn't bother to look at the rash on my inner thighs and immediately asked me if I had itching between my fingers and so I said, yes, a little at times. So he took a straight razor and scraped along my knuckles and then stuck it under a microscope. Then he called me over to look for myself. It was indeed scabies and they were very unpleasant looking creatures. I told him I had treated for scabies already and he asked me how many times. I had only treated once with Lindane though and one needs to treat at least twice about 10-14 days apart and I had already forgotten the correct protocol from the first time I had it years prior.

The reason two treatments are needed is because the first treatment kills the live ones and the second treatment kills the eggs after they hatch, which aren't usually killed by the first treatment.

Needless to say you will also need to wash all bedding and towels and put everything in a hot clothing dryer, possibly more than once, and then possibly repeat after a week to be sure.

Two further things to note; Lindane isn't sold in pharmacies in Thailand anymore as far as I know because of its toxicity (it's an actual pesticide). Not sure what they use to treat it with now because my experience with it was so long ago. Presumably they have something else available that can kill them as easily.

Also, scabies don't bite. So they don't cause any hard bumps or welts like an insect bite. They only lay eggs under the skin and it's the eggs that cause the immense itching at night. If you scratch often and long enough then the area can get very inflamed and resemble many different kinds of rashes, thus making it harder to diagnose.

As someone said, it isn't an STD, but it can be spread by close human contact, clothing, towels, furniture, etc. In my case my partner (who was living with me at the time) never got it from me during that 9 month period. That was another reason I ruled out scabies because it usually spreads pretty fast to anyone else living within close quarters.

Best wishes with finding out what you have.

Thank you, once more...for your detailed comment.

I am the one that stated it is not an STD.....

HugoFastor · January 26

32 minutes ago, GammaGlobulin said:

OK.

I will be careful to find a doctor educated at World Class Med Schools, and now practicing on The Main Line.

Thank you.

Some physicians here might not be up to snuff, as you say.

Thank you.

https://bmmsa.com/

I used to go to this place.

Dynamite Doctors....

They can cure scabies in a heartbeat, and ...

Make you feel good about it,....too....

Sometimes, I miss living on The Main Line....

You're welcome and I hope you can get some answers to your problem quickly.

Yes, any decent skin doctor should be able to diagnose it if it is in fact scabies and any hospital pharmacy should be able to provide the right treatment to get rid of it. Perhaps Lindane is still administered by hospital pharmacies under a doctor's supervision, but maybe not by the outside pharmacies.

I think the reason so many doctors misdiagnosed it in my case is because I think I told them I had treated for scabies already so maybe they ruled it out too. It wasn't until the last doctor (who ignored my diagnosis) and quickly thought outside the box. That doctor was at Bangkok General Hospital, but that's of course anecdotal information at this point.

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