The Word 'farang"

[dr_Pat_Pong]

yes you are right mate - I have two half Malay/Australian cousins - they were born in Aus, but still get the Asian label, thats why I asked the last question.

oh oh...when Georgie reads this you are a goner Gentleman .. Georgie makes Ghengis Khan look like a lefty trendy

[khunphilip]

I have no problem being called farang same as being called Taff or mick we do not want to become like those coffee sipping liberals in the UK who get offended for other creeds I have no white friends who have no promblem being called sambo so whats the be deal being called farang

Phil

[The Gentleman Scamp]

I'm not overly keen on being called "falang" on a regular basis because you never know quite how it's meant... As was said before, it can be derogatory or non derogatory and often I don't know.

The word 'nigger' can be both highly offensive or friendly depending on ones familiarity with the person.

As westerners, we seem to put up with it because it's our nature and 'whitey' is not used to racist nicknames which is why we even call one of our magazines 'Farrang.'

Can you imagine the uproar if there was a 'Paki Magazine' released in Britain?

[Richard Hall]

All is surely about the context the word “Farang” is used or as a German saying goes “Der Ton macht die Musik = Music is made by the tune”. If someone approaches you with a smile and “Khun Farang” this is surely the most polite way coming to that persons mind although “Khun Khon Tang Chahd or Khun Chau Tang Chahd” are certainly the better options the Thai language offers.

Thai people, however, with a good educational background and good manners will surely never address someone by using words such as “Farang” (fair skinned Western people), “Kaeg” (people with darker skin such as from India, Pakistan, Southern Europe, Middle East etc.), “Negro” (colored people) or shouting that infamous “you, you!!”. It may sound strange but the latter mentioned ticks me personally more off than “Farang”.

Nevertheless, if Farang is used in a playful manner, just out of negligence (= mag ngai) because it’s just easier to pronounce than “person from a foreign country”, or when speaking about Western people as third persons there is surely absolutely no offense in it except you pair the word with insulting terms such as “bah”, “kii nok”, “ngo” or whatever but in this case not the word “Farang” is the problem but rather the accompanying ones.

I remember quite well when HM the King approached the subject in one of his birthday speeches reminding his people that “Farang” is not the ideal expression when interacting with foreigners and therefore does not compliment the user (Thai speaking person). Using “Khon Tang Chahd” instead expresses respect, good education and manners.

So, after all if someone wants to gain respect for oneself he/she surely chooses his/her language accordingly. If not, well who cares let them pity themselves and continue to shout FARANG until their voices go hoarse and eventuall prove nothing but that they are either “mag ngai”, poorly educated, lacking a sufficient knowledge of their own language and/or are just badly mannered.

[the gentleman]

I would have to say that the majority of "farangs" in this country are chinese - but the chinese/Thai forget where they are from, when calling us Farangs...

I suppose this poses another question - when is a Farang a Thai?

Never Gentleman .... a farang is a white western person

Is this right Doc?, I though anyone from another country?

[the gentleman]

yes you are right mate - I have two half Malay/Australian cousins - they were born in Aus, but still get the Asian label, thats why I asked the last question.

oh oh...when Georgie reads this you are a goner Gentleman .. Georgie makes Ghengis Khan look like a lefty trendy

-I can handle Georgie Doc, he probably thinks Ghengis Khan is an Al Queda terrorist

[sbk]

Farang is white skinned people only, not black, not dark skinned, not other Asians, not thai people living overseas. It does not mean foreigner it refers only to people with white skin.

For me, it depends on the context. I did take offense when my husband received an invitation to him and his 'farang wife'. If they can't even bother to find out my name after I have lived here 15 years I certainly won't be bothering with their daughter's wedding! Otherwise, what is the big deal? It is just an explanatory word, like "this beer is for the farang" or "this beer is for the fat guy with the glasses". Whats the difference? It just describes someone.

My personal favorite with this particular word is when a Thai friend of mine (university educated, Australian husband) wasn't sure what to call a black person (realizing that some might find Negro derogatory) called him "farang dum". An oxymoron if ever there was one.

[Zendesigner]

for missinthailand,

I said 80 percent doesn't think about it.

My family here in New York uses it once in a while and when I went to Thailand last summer, they used it too.

That probably puts you in the 20 percent with a western, full english education, Experience in other cultures then thai culture ect..

So you probably know what it means yeah.

Unfortunatly the avererage guy on the street eating kauw pad has absolutely no clue...

They have almost never gone out of their home village or next big town and have really no idea what another culture is. let alone what racism is. The mere double pricing fact as discussed before is largely seen by westerners as racism. For a general thai it's business as usual.

We don't know racism? respect? ok buddy...you're so much better than us because ur a 'farang'

Again, i didn't say that.. i don't think myself as better. As having a better education ..yes As having a lot more worldly experience yes.. as being more smart probably for those 80 percent yes..

When i say thais steal it is because i experience it EVERY DAY. That the thai moral prefers to look upon it as business as usual say's more about your country then mine. Every bill i get needs to be checked double. Every price you ask needs to be compared 15 times before buying. Every special thing you want to buy here that not every ordinary thai needs costs sevenfold...

When i do meet the 20 percent with an education and some morals it's mostly a refreshing part of my day..

For samran

Zen,

You can't be the same guy I was butting heads with last week. I agree 95%.

sure i am :-)

Just one quibble, its not not that there is no respect for others, its just that respect is usually expressed in totally different ways that aren't apparent to westerners. When that happens (usually in a more personal or family situation), I'll argue that the respect Thais show for each other is usually pretty good. I don't think there are too many western boys who would go into the monkhood so his mum can have more merit in the next life.

Ok i agree , only some forms we are used to in the west totally lack here, and probably some forms in thai we are totally oblivious about. i dint mean they have any respect only for each other (not famillie or people they know) in daily life , my opinion would be they have none. look at the way they drive, go stand in front of you ect. They just rely on the other party not to make a fuss about it for not losing face.

It cuts both ways. Thai people have a remarkably relaxed attitude to foreigners ways of doing things, based on the concept of "they don't know...lets not get too stressed about it". In the same way, westerners shouldn't get worked up about the whole "farang" word thing (unless as someone pointed out, it is used in situation where the person knows you and should know better).

Sure i agree, the only that gets a mouthfull when i hear her use it ( she only did once in the beginning) is my wife. she married me know my name so she can introduce me as khun xxx to other people not as farang belgium or similar.

BTW, I personally like the barge through tactic coming out of the lift/skytrain.

It's a different way of teaching

not everything needs to be resolved with smiling and trying not to "kreng jai "somebody. i find TO many people taking advantage of that.

For my perception it is the basic flaw in thai society that permits corruption , over jelous presidents, double pricing ect. More people should sometimes come out and push the other party's face in it.

Like maybe confront their president a little bit more by having a demonstration regarding the chicken flu in bkk instead of ahving a chicken eating party????

by the way i had several results already doing this crazy not done attitude in thai society".

I wnet to eat once in a belgian restaurant in pattaya (my country's food and hopefully service).

The placemats outside were dispicably dirty. So i asked the waitrees if she could change them or clean them. "Yes sir "

So they came back in exactly the same state as they were??? "please sir"

So i took them of the table and trew them on the ground next to me..

You should have seen the waitress face when i did that " big problem , lose face bla bla bla"

BUT next week when i went to eat there again guess what (food is great by the way).

They had brand new placemats??? And the waitress was very friendly, and we had a nice dinner.

Many times they just need that small kick to get started.

You may not like my method , but hey " i'm a stupid farang anyday"

b

[Zendesigner]

by the way ...

Immigration is coming over tonight to check my marriage extension request.

He made sure my wife would have

"something to drink for him "

Glad to see nothing has changed yet

[TizMe]

Call me anything, just make sure you call me before the beer gets warm.

[Begs]

Again, i didn't say that.. i don't think myself as better. As having a better education ..yes As having a lot more worldly experience yes.. as being more smart probably for those 80 percent yes..

When i say thais steal it is because i experience it EVERY DAY. That the thai moral prefers to look upon it as business as usual say's more about your country then mine. Every bill i get needs to be checked double. Every price you ask needs to be compared 15 times before buying. Every special thing you want to buy here that not every ordinary thai needs costs sevenfold...

Are you so smart and worldly wise if you live in a country where you are Charged seven times the real price for some goods, and overcharged for everything else, yet you still continue to live there?

I wish i was as smart and worldly wise as you.

[the gentleman]

I agree with some of your thoughts Zen, but you are living in a country that does inflate prices and wants to make money from us and tourists. this is how it is, you can pay or not pay the prices, but to argue the point will not help you in this country - you know that.

there are a lot of good and bad points about Thailand, but on the whole it is obviously better than Belgium, or you wouldnt be here - focus on the glass half full mate - turn a blind eye and put up with it. My first two years here, I spent with a bad attitude on how things are, they havent changed, but I have - now I just smile and say Pang Mark, Mai ouw krap and walk away.

By the way, dont think it is just you, Thais also get overcharged and check there bills regulary, sometimes it comes down to the "service girls" education, sometimes it is a mistake and sometimes it is a blatent rip off.

I find if I am not in a "tourist area" or "business district" such as the main citys, it never happens - business is business, but on the whole, it isnt all of Thailand as you suggest.

[marto]

I'm Thai, I speak Thai. Trust me, the term 'farang' is not meant to be used as something bad. Like someone says, farang is kinda like someone who's not Thai. Someone who is white.

I know, with my poor experience in Thailand, that "farang" is in use only for WHITE foerigners. And I really didnt heart someone ta call Afro-americans farangs...

[marto]

The word 'nigger' can be both highly offensive or friendly depending on ones familiarity with the person.

Believe me - I`ve been In 4-5 African countries - do not use word "nigger". Especially from the mouth of a white jerk "nigger" sounds like "come and kill me".

"Black" can be also offensive. But when a black man call other one "nigger" - that's sence of humor:))

[boNita aPPlebuM]

I once saw a list of offending-racism terms and words.

the difficult thing they all convey different meanings to each individual.

I, personally, do not like to be an "ORIENTAL". I makes me feel like I am food or a rug but that's just me ...

Also, on that list ... I saw

"FOB"

And I thought they mispelled it for

"SOB"

I was thinking, "hey! isn't a son of a B***" offending to all cultures??!!

FOB = Fresh Off the Boat

[Zendesigner]

For begs,

Bla bla bla... learn to read. i said i was asked the prices in sevenfold not that i bought the stuff....

For gentleman,

there are a lot of good and bad points about Thailand, but on the whole it is obviously better than Belgium, or you wouldnt be here

Sure there are a lot of better points about thailand then there are about europe at this time. Indeed i wouldn't have come here otherwise. The weather is better that's for sure :-). I can also recall dozens of reasons why europe is worse then here :-)

Still doesn't keep my neckhairs from standing up when they try to rip me off!!

like i said it's ok to weigh the pro's and cons like everybody does, but i draw a line to the ripp off thing. No matter how cheap the food is or how hard everybody smiles that is not something i will shove under the mat so everybody is still "sabai".

now I just smile and say Pang Mark, Mai ouw krap and walk away.

Did that today 3 times, and the 4the shop found the stuff at the correct price. Only i don't smile , i laugh when they tell me their price.

Suprisingly there are shops out there who are professional and service minded. I even would gladly give them a hundred bath tip. Wich is not the same as trying to add a hundred bath to your price cause you see a white face.

May teach them that service gets rewarded , stealing gets frowned upon.

But then again , they don't even think that far. They just shrugg their shoulders and wait for the next idiot that wants to by their 27 year old rusty pickup for 250.000 bath???

By the way, dont think it is just you, Thais also get overcharged and check there bills regulary, sometimes it comes down to the "service girls" education, sometimes it is a mistake and sometimes it is a blatent rip off.

Most of the time the restaurant bills are wrong due to being disorganized. None of the waiters knows what the rest is doing, there no head waiter or boss and they just count wrong.

Then there is the "boss is not here and i'll 10 bath to the menu price" scam.

Since i moved to Chiangmai i already noticed a better moral and nicer people around then pattaya, bangkok, phuket.

I find if I am not in a "tourist area" or "business district" such as the main citys, it never happens - business is business, but on the whole, it isnt all of Thailand as you suggest.

Sure hope so. But this is a discussion forum no ? So we are having nice discussions here. Sorry that not all of my views coincide with everybody here.

practically impossible i would think :-)

B

[astral]

All the Asian countries are know by their respective names.

For some reason all other countries are lumped together under the title FARANG, which is contraction of the name Farangset (French - France).

It is not derogatory, just how the Thai's refer to us.

Kamen, Lao are much ruder terms, implying you come from Cambodia or Laos.

Kwai - buffalo is not much better.

[JamesTILAC]

The word FARANG has no derogatory meaning. This is just the way Thai people name mainly blonde foreigners. A black American is NOT a farang neither a muslim nor any Asian guy. This was discussed before I reckon. If you have any Thai colleague, just ask him/her, as I did long ago, and get what they think about this....hope this helps....

[Pi Sua]

My understanding is that the word farang came form the French traders that came to Thailand hundreds of years ago. As an Englishman I find it incredibly offensive to be called French!

In Maesot there are two ways to be called:

The first "farang" by the thai people.

The second is "englit" by the burmese.

As I'm French.....

[digibum]

I consider "Farang" similar to the term "Gringo" used by some Spanish speakers (especially in Mexico) to refer to white people. I have no problem referring to myself as a gringo and others may identify me as "the gringo" but it's all in how it's used. I had a very close friend who would always call me "the gringo" and it was a sign of friendship. However when I was at his parents home once his mother called me a gringo and it was intentionally meant to be an insult. She thought her son should be hanging out with other Mexicans and not hanging out with white people who might corrupt her son.

I think Farang works the same way. Sometimes people will say "Farang" to simply identify you (i.e. He's the farang). No insult is intended. On the other hand someone calling you a farang in a particular tone intends it to be an insult.

I have a t-shirt that I purchased on eBay from a farang up in Chiang Mai that says "Farang" in both Thai-script and in Romanized letters. I've worn it a few times in LA and every once in a while an Asian lady will stare at the shirt, look up at me, stare at the shirt again, and then look up at me and smile.

[FARANG Untamed Travel]

Hello everybody on the Thai Visa webboards - we at FARANG Untamed Travel are regular surfers to this great forum but have never posted before - we were obviously drawn to the 'FARANG' debate:

We decided around three years ago to start a travel mag - working title 'The Road' - saved from infinate boredom only by a last minute reality check we decided to go with the title FARANG You! You! You! - originally so the local kids would do all our word of mouth marketing for us - that worked

The 'honourific' has served us well to convey what we are trying to do - keep the 'smile' in LoS. We will always be FARANG, no matter how long we stay - celebrate what you are and enjoy what you do with it.

We are working on our new publication - "Kaek" - which will launched at a big event at the Grace Hotel sometime soon.

FARANG Untamed Travel Team

[seatimes]

falang is the word thais, not laos, vietnamese or cambodians use

it is simply being lazy

actually in the west using gook or slope for asians in the same thing

try it when a thai calls you a falang

[cdnvic]

I don't like being called Farung by my family or friends as I have a name and they know it. When it does happen I just start refering to them as asians instead of calling them by name and it just gets a giggle and they get the point.

I think that because the term 'forginer' is mostly used negativly by a few rednecks where I come from that falung is viewed somewhat negativly by myself. Add in the fact that back home it is virtually impossible to pick out the forginers without actually checking passports. The south end of Vancouver is virtually an asian city, even though most of the people there are Canadians. I'd never call one of them forgiener, as that would be insulting. In contrast to the multicultural societies of the west, Thailand is still rather mono-cultural, so I think they can be forgiven for finding us more forgien than we do them in the west.

But like others have said, it all comes down to how it's said and in what concept. I was riding down a backstreet in a very non-tourist section of Chaing Mai a few months ago and a woman was looking at me as if I was cruising through the neighborhood in a flying saucer. She pointed me out to a friend and said "Falung!". I pointed back at her and yelled "Thai!". This got me a big toothy grin from the ladies. Neither of us seemed offended.

cv

[tutsiwarrior]

digibum...when in Latin America you just got to put up with 'gringo'. Now in mexico if you heard someone say 'gabacho' then he's challenging you to a fight...either take him down or be accused of being a 'gringo maricon' forever after...

this an unfortunate double standard as any reference to cultural background in polite conversation in the US (ie., ' our latino associate') would be considered an insult.

I attended a local high school in a small SA country for 2 years. You got to develop thick skin very quickly in that environment. Even though I became fluent in Spanish within a year and won essay contests at school I was always referred to as gringo except by family and close friends.

'life's pretty rough' said Chuck the Duck and he was white and lived in Orange County CA...

[meemiathai]

I think that because the term 'forginer' is mostly used negativly by a few rednecks where I come from that falung is viewed somewhat negativly by myself. Add in the fact that back home it is virtually impossible to pick out the forginers without actually checking passports. The south end of Vancouver is virtually an asian city, even though most of the people there are Canadians. I'd never call one of them forgiener, as that would be insulting. In contrast to the multicultural societies of the west, Thailand is still rather mono-cultural, so I think they can be forgiven for finding us more forgien than we do them in the west.

For those who still don't get it, the word "farang" does not mean foreigner. It means Caucasian. No more no less. So if you are white or look Caucasian, you are a "FARANG". Foreigner is "khon darng chard".

[haltes]

I hate the word farang, it just shows ignorance.

I explained it to my Thai friends as follows, imagine if the first asian people we ever met wereIndian and then after that whenever we meet anyone from the whole continent of Asia we refered to them as Indian would that be ok?

"Khon dtang Bratayt" is a lot nicer and to me has no negative implications.

Farang is the same as using the n word or calling someone a wop, spic, dago etc etc

[Spee]

Hi Group,

I had originally voted "don't care" in the poll, because I assumed falang was more or less a slang term.

Tonight I had a lengthy chat with many Thai ladies that I know and we talked about the term falang in a bit of detail.

They told me that they use the term falang in the normal sense to describe:

- people of caucasian complexion who originate from the USA and Europe.

They also confirmed that there are many kinds of slang terms that are used in Thai-speak, just as there are many kinds of slang terms comonly in use in the US or elsewhere.

So to me, it sounds like the bottom line is the company in which the term is used and the context in which it is stated.

In other words, there seem to be many respectful and disrespectful ways and contexts in which the word may be used.

Regards,

Spee

[dr_Pat_Pong]

In the normal context the word farang is not a derogatory word or description.

[Begs]

I hate the word farang, it just shows ignorance.

Another ignorant farang................

This aint UK or USA, you are a Farang here, a gwailo in Hong Kong and a Gaijin in Japan, its thier language thier country.

Some farang's just cannot grasp it.

[kwiz117]

How many times have you gotten out of an elevator in thailand without some people outside trying to get in first ???

I'm 120 kg so after a while i just decided to WALK OVER THEM when i get out if they come near me.

Suddennly you get e very schocked thai realizing that maybe his actions weren't the best idea !!

So don't start thinking to much in western principles. They just don't know the difference.

For them it's just another word.

B

Interesting experience zen..

Remember, I told you..Thai people are much more better compared to some other Asian's.

Actually before you guys expect any respect like the way you get in your countries, we Asian's even do not know how to respect each other.

Actually the word Farang means, Foreigners..They have shorten the word so that they can speak it easily. You see..many English words, they have shorten including the Names to some western Nick Names.

For example, imagine me calling myself "George" or 'Bill" or "Nick" when I have my own Asian name.

Then, with the time, since most of the foreigners are 'White Skin" people, the word "farang" has become a word to call them. Like 'Kirk" to call "Off White's" like me and "Jed" to call Chinese.

(I do not know any meaning of these words). But if I hear anyone calling me by using any name, unless he/she a friend of mine, then I tell them what I would like to call them.

Also I noticed that Green Colour Fruit..they call it 'farang or falang". I do not know..