12 Am And 12 Pm

[Maestro]

...there would be no problem, or need for my OP, if people would indeed use

Midnight and Midday or noon, but unfortunately many insist on using 12AM and 12 PM and the purpose of my thread was to

inform those who do insist on using the terms to use them correctly i.e. 12AM should represent 12 Midday or noon and 12PM

should represent 12 midnight, not the other way round.

You have come full circle back to the blooper made in your OP where you first stated correctly that 12am and 12pm do not exist and thus as wrong but went on to say that they should be correctly used with 12am for noon and 12pm for midnight.

Since these two terms are wrong, there is no correct use for them and all we can do is observe in what way they are incorrectly being used and as a result understand correctly the meaning given to them by the people using them, regardless whether or not we find that use logical.

[phuketjock]

Imteresting observation, last night while watching Animal planet an ad for a future programme came

on and it is to be aired at 12mn so it looks like at least some TV execs are using there grey matter.

[Maestro]

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[utalkin2me]

And there was no blooper in my OP I stand by my claim that 12AM is noon and 12PM is midnight!!!!

I so it looks like at least some TV execs are using there grey matter.

Those two statements kinda say it all.

[metisdead]

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[phuketjock]

And there was no blooper in my OP I stand by my claim that 12AM is noon and 12PM is midnight!!!!

I so it looks like at least some TV execs are using there grey matter.

Those two statements kinda say it all.

Anyone can cherry pick parts of quotes to try and put someone down, falibility is not unique to

any one person we are all suseptible to it, including you.

[sustento]

From the horse's mouth. Not greenwichmeantime whoever that may be but the Royal Observatory:

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/astronomy-and-time/time-facts/faqs/is-noon-12-am-or-12-pm

[phuketjock]

From the horse's mouth. Not greenwichmeantime whoever that may be but the Royal Observatory:

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/astronomy-and-time/time-facts/faqs/is-noon-12-am-or-12-pm

susento The royal observatory is the location of the prime meridian commonly now known as the Greenwich meridian on which

greenwichmeantime is based so more of a horses mouth than you thought perhaps?? It was in its day responsible, among other things,

for marking the time of day. The royal observatory was commissioned in the 17th century and as such is the oldest known source of

knowledge in the west regarding time to this day,

The op is not about the correctnest of 12am and 12 pm, I think everyone so far knows that the terms do not actually have any meaning

and indeed should not be used but they are constantly used and my OP was that if people insist on using them that they should use

12am for 12 midday and 12pm for 12 midnight. If you had actually taken the time to read the thread properly then perhaps you may have

had second thoughts on your post.

Edited June 15, 2013 by phuketjock

[sustento]

From the horse's mouth. Not greenwichmeantime whoever that may be but the Royal Observatory:

http://www.rmg.co.uk/explore/astronomy-and-time/time-facts/faqs/is-noon-12-am-or-12-pm

susento The royal observatory is the location of the prime meridian commonly now known as the Greenwich meridian on which

greenwichmeantime is based so more of a horses mouth than you thought perhaps?? It was in its day responsible, among other things,

for marking the time of day. The royal observatory was commissioned in the 17th century and as such is the oldest known source of

knowledge in the west regarding time to this day,

I was pointing out that the site greenwichmeantime.com/co.uk is a commercial website run by a private company to make a profit whereas the Royal Observatory is the site of the Greenwich Meridian. Having spent a large part of my career at sea in the days before GPS I have a reasonable understanding of the workings and importance of time and the Greenwich Meridian.

P.S. At sea we always use the 24 hour clock. It avoids confusion.

Edited June 15, 2013 by sustento

[utalkin2me]

And there was no blooper in my OP I stand by my claim that 12AM is noon and 12PM is midnight!!!!

I so it looks like at least some TV execs are using there grey matter.

Those two statements kinda say it all.

Anyone can cherry pick parts of quotes to try and put someone down, falibility is not unique to

any one person we are all suseptible to it, including you.

I take it you are talking about when you say 12pm is midnight? Yes, you are right, fallibility is rampant.

Do you know that you have started a thread under the guise of "clarification", and meanwhile you are confusing people. I agree with you that 12pm (or 12am) is not the clearest of all of man's creations, but I do not agree that "12pm is (or should be considered to be) midnight".

On one hand you are saying they mean nothing, then you are saying if people do use them (as you did in your OP), to use them the opposite way that they have been historically used/listed.??!!! If, as you say, "they don't mean anything", then why on earth are you arbitrarily picking 12pm to mean midnight, and 12am to mean midday? Especially in light of the fact that most all other (western) countries/people that I am aware of do the exact opposite.

1) I personally don't think they mean nothing, we need to know what these terms mean when others use them - they don't "mean nothing" to people in a practical sense. Is the 24 hour clock "better". Yes, probably. But so is the metric system etc, but inches aren't going anywhere in the US for example, so we need to find clear ways to deal with them, something you are exceedingly inept at.

2) I think if one is forced to use them or hears them used, they should use and understand them "correctly" as "12pm is midday, 12am is midnight". Correctly I will define as what the majority of people will understand, at least to a greater extent. Given that you would not answer this question earlier in the thread, ie pick between 12am or 12pm for a TV guide listing for midnight (was my example), then you are pretty much back tracking to the opinion of "12pm and 12am have no meaning, and should never be used". Ok, but other people use them, so we need to understand them. Something you clearly are not doing - understanding that is.

Did you ever have any luck setting up your digital 12 hour clock alarm for "12pm" when you needed to wake up at midnight btw?

What if somebody told you that a show you just could not miss was on at 12pm and you were going on vacation and only had one hour of hard drive space to record it. What would you do? I have to take it you would set up your timer for midnight and miss your show, and thus screw yourself, kind of reminiscent of what you have done to yourself with this thread.

Edited June 16, 2013 by utalkin2me

[phuketjock]

Anyone can cherry pick parts of quotes to try and put someone down, falibility is not unique to

any one person we are all suseptible to it, including you.

I take it you are talking about when you say 12pm is midnight? Yes, you are right, fallibility is rampant.

Do you know that you have started a thread under the guise of "clarification", and meanwhile you are confusing people. I agree with you that 12pm (or 12am) is not the clearest of all of man's creations, but I do not agree that "12pm is (or should be considered to be) midnight".

On one hand you are saying they mean nothing, then you are saying if people do use them (as you did in your OP), to use them the opposite way that they have been historically used/listed.??!!! If, as you say, "they don't mean anything", then why on earth are you arbitrarily picking 12pm to mean midnight, and 12am to mean midday? Especially in light of the fact that most all other (western) countries/people that I am aware of do the exact opposite.

1) I personally don't think they mean nothing, we need to know what these terms mean when others use them - they don't "mean nothing" to people in a practical sense. Is the 24 hour clock "better". Yes, probably. But so is the metric system etc, but inches aren't going anywhere in the US for example, so we need to find clear ways to deal with them, something you are exceedingly inept at.

2) I think if one is forced to use them or hears them used, they should use and understand them "correctly" as "12pm is midday, 12am is midnight". Correctly I will define as what the majority of people will understand, at least to a greater extent. Given that you would not answer this question earlier in the thread, ie pick between 12am or 12pm for a TV guide listing for midnight (was my example), then you are pretty much back tracking to the opinion of "12pm and 12am have no meaning, and should never be used". Ok, but other people use them, so we need to understand them. Something you clearly are not doing - understanding that is.

Did you ever have any luck setting up your digital 12 hour clock alarm for "12pm" when you needed to wake up at midnight btw?

What if somebody told you that a show you just could not miss was on at 12pm and you were going on vacation and only had one hour of hard drive space to record it. What would you do? I have to take it you would set up your timer for midnight and miss your show, and thus screw yourself, kind of reminiscent of what you have done to yourself with this thread.

I started this thread under no guise and if you think it is

confusing people I would suggest that you seem to be the only one displaying

any confusing and if you do not wish to believe that 12am is midday and that 12pm

is midnight that is entirely up to you.

http://wwp.greenwich...m/info/noon.htm

I have linked to this site several

times on this thread and the information on it originates from the Royal Observatory

London, which is, amongst other things, recognized as the foremost world authority

on all things relating to time.so not, in fact an “ arbitrary pick “ as you

suggest but information gleaned from a very reliable source.

As previously stated the use of the

24hr system is the ideal way to go or when referring to any of the 12 O’clocks

use midday/noon or midnight thus avoiding any chance of ambiguity completely. Your

reference to the metric system and inches is a complete irrelevance to this

topic. The US has been well behind the rest of the world in many things besides

metrification for some years.

The above link clearly shows

A.M. and P.M. What is Noon and Midnight?

A.M.

and P.M. start immediately after Midnight and Noon (Midday) respectively.

This

means that 00:00 A.M. or 00:00 P.M. (or 12:00 A.M. and 12:00 P.M.) have no

meaning.

Every

day starts precisely at midnight and A.M. starts immediately after that point

in time e.g. 00:00:01 A.M. (see also leap seconds)

To

avoid confusion timetables, when scheduling around midnight, prefer to use

either 23:59 or 00:01 to avoid confusion as to which day is being referred to.

It

is after Noon that P.M. starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM (12:00:01)

The

pertenant points being,

Every day starts precisely at midnight and AM starts immediately

after that point in time e.g. 00:00:01 AM

Therefore

any time before 00:00:01 AM must be PM i.e. 12 midnight must be 12 PM.

It is after noon that PM starts e.g. 00:00:01 PM ( 12:00:01 )

Therefore

any time prior to 12:00:01 PM must be AM i.e. 12 midday/noon must be 12 AM.

I would also point you in the direction

of solid logic and common sense.

We all agree that we have

1,2,3,4,5,6.7.8.9.10.11am up to 11.59.59 am it has to be logical that we would

then have 12.00am followed by 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11pm up to 11.59.59pm which

using common sense and logic again must be followed by 12.00pm.

All this talk by you and others about

digital and electronic clocks and other devices is just a big red herring. I

have no doubt that electronic engineers could come up with a device that could

show 12am at midday but I seriously doubt that the human brain or eye could catch

the am caption in the microsecond before it became 12.00.00.1something pm, and

similarly at 12pm midnight so I would guess that’s why they don’t bother doing

it.

Now please go and find some reliable sources or facts to back up your fantasy opinion

Cheers

[SeaVisionBurma]

Enough!

That is quite enough on this subject.

//CLOSED//