Info Overload :) What Would Be My Best Options?

[james5121]

I have been wading through all the information and really seem to be going in circles.

This is my info :

I am 62 .

I will be coming to LOS in the next 6 months to stay for ever i hope:)

I will have enough income and money to get retirement visa.But am not sure that is the best answer?

I won't be married.

I intend to purchase some land .(through corp.)

I intend to build a house.

I intend to possibly have some sort small business?

Before i leave for Thailand i will be around Chicago (which has a thai consular offices). 1.Should i apply for a visa at the Chicago office before i leave?

2. What kind of visa would be best to apply for? 3.Also how does the (exstension of stay or what ever it is called)play into this ?Do i apply for it at the same time?

At first i thought i would just come on a tourist visa and get it all straight when i get to Khon Kaen. But then i thought i would ask those that are much more educated in this matter . Thanks in advance and i will be back at least once a week .There is just so much information on here .Also there are a few really nice people on here :0 . James.

[Jingthing]

A complicated set of intentions.

On the real estate question, I suggest a separate thread on the real estate forum. It's isn't related to visas per se.

On the retirement visa/retirement extensions questions, well, do you know you are not legally allowed to open and work a small business on retirement status?

I think your first order of business is committing to plan for your life in Thailand: retirement status or running a business status. You can't do both.

Yes you can start with retirement status and switch later, but you'd need to switch to keep legal.

If your intention is to hang out for awhile without working and then opening a business, then how long do you think this hanging out period will probably be?

Assuming you want to start on retirement status, you can choose to start with an O-A visa from the U.S. (get a multiple) or you can choose to start with a single entry O in the U.S. if you can get one based on retirement reason and then apply for your first annual extension in Thailand.

In your case, based on limited info, the O-A might be better for you. It will allow you about two years living in Thailand with only one visa run required without having to bother with any retirement extensions at Thai immigration and by then you'll likely have decided what to do about a business. You can also get it showing finances in the U.S., rather than Thailand.

I think Chicago offers O-A visas. You need a medical form and police report for this application. If you choose to not do the O-A they might NOT offer a single entry O to you based on retirement; instead pushing the O-A. In that case you can find a friendlier consulate OR get a tourist visa and go to Thailand where you can either convert to an O in Thailand as part of the retirement extension process (in KK if they do that, if not Bangkok for the first step) or you can go to Laos and easily get a single entry O there. Someone here should know if KK offers the change of visa status option for retirement extension applicants. For retirement extensions in Thailand you need to show your financial qualifications IN Thailand using the three choices: seasoned 800K in Thai bank, embassy letter showing income, or a combination.

IF your plan is to start a business RIGHT AWAY, there might be a better visa choice for you based on that intention. The advice here is based on the assumption you are not intending to start a business right away.

If you are going for retirement status, NEVER tell immigration or an embassy that you want to work unless and and until you actually want to start the business and need to change your legal status.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Jingthing

[Gsxrnz]

JT - That was a great post and covers all the points but somehow I think the OP may have trouble interpreting it. I didn't realise until I read your summary how complex the visa jargon etc is here and it's only after you've been part of the process that it becomes understandable.

My two cents worth is that if the OP has the time to organise a retirement application before he leaves home, then that is his best option as he can get 24 months out of it or convert later when he decides what status he ultimately wants. Let's face it, he's not going to achieve his bucket list in the first 60 days anyway.

However if he's short of time, get a 60 day tourist visa and then convert after he's been here for a while as JT suggested and better understands the system.

[Jingthing]

Well, if there wasn't a learning curve to using the long term visas here, perhaps the site here might be called thaigardenparty?

[Jingthing]

To follow up a bit:

-- Does someone know if the Khon Kaen office offers the service of change of visa status from a 30 day stamp or tourist visa to O visa as part of a two step retirement extension process? As said before not ALL offices do. This information could be the relevant to the OP's decision about whether to apply for an O-A in Chicago or not. I have a strong feeling Chicago will not do single entry Os based on the reason retirement because they do offer O-As.

-- Doing retirement extensions in Thailand (you first need an O visa from SOMEWHERE) if any INCOME is being used for qualification, the OP will need to travel to a U.S. consulate or embassy in Thailand to obtain an income letter for immigration. Appointments are needed.

-- Doing retirement extensions in Thailand if using the 800K bank method (or combo) a Thai bank account is needed. For the first extension the 800K needs to be in there for at least two months before application for annual extension (three months later applications) but if using banked money for the combo method, the money doesn't need to be seasoned at all (except in cases of a few provincial offices not following the national rule)

Somebody could just "tell" the OP, do this or do that, but these are adult decisions of a personal nature, and in my view it is the applicants responsibility to educate themselves about the different options, pros and cons, in order to make the best decision.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

FYI:

There are infrequent American embassy outreaches to KK, Udon, and Ubom to get income letters. They are technically good for six months. When the outreach dates don't work, a trip is needed to Chiang Mai or Bangkok:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

[TerryLH]

"... if any INCOME is being used for qualification, the OP will need to travel to a U.S. consulate or embassy in Thailand to obtain an income letter for immigration. Appointments are needed."

For US nationals, American Citizen Services comes to KKC twice a year on an Outreach visit. They provide all sorts of services, including passport renewal and income letters. No appointment needed.

The next visit is in two days, 12 June. 0800- 1200 at the Pullman Hotel.

[Jingthing]

"... if any INCOME is being used for qualification, the OP will need to travel to a U.S. consulate or embassy in Thailand to obtain an income letter for immigration. Appointments are needed."

For US nationals, American Citizen Services comes to KKC twice a year on an Outreach visit. They provide all sorts of services, including passport renewal and income letters. No appointment needed.

The next visit is in two days, 12 June. 0800- 1200 at the Pullman Hotel.

Indeed. That date will be useless to the OP though.

(I already noted the link of the outreach dates on a previous post.)

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jingthing

[watcharacters]

FYI:

There are infrequent American embassy outreaches to KK, Udon, and Ubom to get income letters. They are technically good for six months. When the outreach dates don't work, a trip is needed to Chiang Mai or Bangkok:

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/consular_outreach.html

.

Ive been told both by imm. and the embassy the letter is good for only 30 days.

I hope that info was wrong.

[Jingthing]

The letters are officially good for 6 months. That was changed from only good for 15 days which was a very short lived very draconian rule. As far as the enforcement policies of specific offices, those can vary of course as not all follow national rules, and of course policies can change at any time. Welcome to the Thai immigration experience.

[ubonjoe]

I suggest the OP contact a honorary Thai consulate (IE: Portland) for a single entry non-o visa and then do the extension during the last 30 days of his 90 day entry. Honorary consulates accept mail in applications and normally do same turnaround them.

The Consulate in Chicago (same at embassy and consulates in LA and NY) will not issue a non-o visa because they can issue OA visas and will push you in that direction.

Edited June 10, 2013 by ubonjoe

[Jingthing]

That's a good suggestion and I agree about Chicago, as stated.

However it may just be that an O-A visa (multiple entry) is a really good option for the OP.

Only he can make that determination for himself based on understanding the pros and cons of the different options.

If it turns out a multiple entry O-A visa IS what the OP wants, it is convenient for him to have easy access to Chicago.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jingthing

[Lite Beer]

I would go along with ubonjoe and get a Non Imm O Visa.

A much easier option that saves the hassle of mucking around with police reports and medical certificates.

[Jingthing]

I would go along with ubonjoe and get a Non Imm O Visa.

A much easier option that saves the hassle of mucking around with police reports and medical certificates.

Yes that is very true.

But if the OP is then going to need a retirement extension in Thailand during the last 30 days of that 90 day stay, he has OTHER worries. Namely the financial requirements being met in Thailand (bank account, embassy letter, or both). No medical or police report needed for in-Thailand retirement extensions though.

Like I said, pros and cons.

I'm only saying anyone making these kinds of decisions is better off learning the pros and cons and then making a PERSONALIZED decision.

For example, for some Americans getting that health form for the O-A would be difficult and expensive, for others it may be cheap and easy, like if they had a long term relationship with a doctor already.

There IS some extra value in starting with the O-A (multiple) in the sense of not needing to deal with Thai immigration at all for two years, being able to qualify by showing funds in your home country not Thailand, etc.

Another reason I feel strongly it is important for people making choices on long term visa tactics to get well educated on the subject is that IF they just take some advice without considering the implications carefully, they might later get a real shock, and even place blame on the advice giver.

For example if someone took the advice to start with a single entry O without understanding the implications, and then they could only use the 800K bank account method in Thailand and were not prepared for the strict rules about money seasoning for that, they might later feel they were given incomplete advice.

So I feel being educated on these matters is not really optional for those dependent on the system, except for some people who just pay someone to do all their thinking for them.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jingthing

[james5121]

"In your case, based on limited info, the O-A might be better for you. It
will allow you about two years living in Thailand with only one visa
run required without having to bother with any retirement extensions at
Thai immigration and by then you'll likely have decided what to do about
a business. You can also get it showing finances in the U.S., rather
than Thailand."

Thanks for the help. Yes Jingthing the O-A seems the better option.I checked on the Chicago web ste and they say there is a 2 day turn around.(i will believe that when i see it But if i am understanding it correctly they say the medical and police reports need to be notarized.I might be missing something .Will the police or doctor be able to notarize these?If not i don't think a regular notary would do it ? I believe my bank will notarize my statement .

Also i realise the draw backs with this option but i will need some time on the ground before making other decisions.I don't plan on jumping into anything for a little bit .I have scouted out property and do have a bank account with bangkok bank. But most of all my money is in the US .

After almost 50 years of working i just might want to sit on my a** .The problem it seems you need to drink to do that and i gave that up over 30 years ago.

Just in case some of you have posted and helped on here I want you to know i really really appreciate all the effort all of you put into this forum,well not just this forum but the all of them there is so much information on here .Thanks and you are greatly appreciated. JRV

[Jingthing]

I hope the O-A works out for you. Chicago should be able to specify their exact requirements. This is important: please be CERTAIN you are applying for a MULTIPLE ENTRY O-A. Otherwise, the approximately two year use benefit will be not be in effect. Also if you get it you need to learn how to use the visa correctly to take advantage of the two year benefit.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jingthing

[JAS21]

"In your case, based on limited info, the O-A might be better for you. It

will allow you about two years living in Thailand with only one visa

run required without having to bother with any retirement extensions at

Thai immigration and by then you'll likely have decided what to do about

a business. You can also get it showing finances in the U.S., rather

than Thailand."

Thanks for the help. Yes Jingthing the O-A seems the better option.I checked on the Chicago web ste and they say there is a 2 day turn around.(i will believe that when i see it But if i am understanding it correctly they say the medical and police reports need to be notarized.I might be missing something .Will the police or doctor be able to notarize these?If not i don't think a regular notary would do it ? I believe my bank will notarize my statement .

Also i realise the draw backs with this option but i will need some time on the ground before making other decisions.I don't plan on jumping into anything for a little bit .I have scouted out property and do have a bank account with bangkok bank. But most of all my money is in the US .

After almost 50 years of working i just might want to sit on my a** .The problem it seems you need to drink to do that and i gave that up over 30 years ago.

Just in case some of you have posted and helped on here I want you to know i really really appreciate all the effort all of you put into this forum,well not just this forum but the all of them there is so much information on here .Thanks and you are greatly appreciated. JRV

No you don't need to sit on your bum and drink ... Get yourself some transport, find a nice piece of tottie, not too young (shouldn't be too difficult) and drive around from one beach to another ............ job sorted .... wonderful life.

[Langsuan Man]

IMHO, I would stay away from the Chicago Consulate (as well as the LA Consulate) because they are the only two on the US that require notarization of the O-A (long stay) required paperwork (medical and police report)

Do it via mail through the Embassy in Washington, where no notary is required. If you provide them with the correct number of copies (follow their web site requirements) they can do it with a two day turn around, just use Express Mail from the USPS

[OJAS]

"There IS some extra value in starting with the O-A (multiple) in the sense of not needing to deal with Thai immigration at all for two years,,,,"

Except for 90-day address reporting, of course - already covered ad nauseam elsewhere on this forum.

[rogerluli]

IMHO, I would stay away from the Chicago Consulate (as well as the LA Consulate) because they are the only two on the US that require notarization of the O-A (long stay) required paperwork (medical and police report)

Do it via mail through the Embassy in Washington, where no notary is required. If you provide them with the correct number of copies (follow their web site requirements) they can do it with a two day turn around, just use Express Mail from the USPS

Isn't the notarization quite simple though. They are not, as I understand it, asking for your doctor and police department to actually sign the documents. It is the petitioner who takes the documents and has them notarized with their own signature. Done for free at my bank.

[OJAS]

IMHO, I would stay away from the Chicago Consulate (as well as the LA Consulate) because they are the only two on the US that require notarization of the O-A (long stay) required paperwork (medical and police report)

Do it via mail through the Embassy in Washington, where no notary is required. If you provide them with the correct number of copies (follow their web site requirements) they can do it with a two day turn around, just use Express Mail from the USPS

Isn't the notarization quite simple though. They are not, as I understand it, asking for your doctor and police department to actually sign the documents. It is the petitioner who takes the documents and has them notarized with their own signature. Done for free at my bank.

When I applied for my original O-A visa 5 years ago in the UK, I had to have my bank statement, medical report and police check notarised by an individual known as a Notary Public, who, in my case, was a solicitor working for a local law firm (not every solicitor is a Notary Public, however). This cost me the equivalent of 200 USD

Not sure whether the system is the same in the USA, however.

Edited June 10, 2013 by OJAS

[Langsuan Man]

IMHO, I would stay away from the Chicago Consulate (as well as the LA Consulate) because they are the only two on the US that require notarization of the O-A (long stay) required paperwork (medical and police report)

Do it via mail through the Embassy in Washington, where no notary is required. If you provide them with the correct number of copies (follow their web site requirements) they can do it with a two day turn around, just use Express Mail from the USPS

Isn't the notarization quite simple though. They are not, as I understand it, asking for your doctor and police department to actually sign the documents. It is the petitioner who takes the documents and has them notarized with their own signature. Done for free at my bank.

Depends, some notaries will notarize documents as being "true copies" others will not. They are not notarizing your signature, it is not your signature on the police report or the medical certificate. Others have reported it to be easy, others have reported it to be difficult. I prefer to prevent problems in the first place, so that I why I used the Embassy in Washington and now the Consulate in New York, as is everything dealing with Thailand, your mileage may vary.

[rogerluli]

IMHO, I would stay away from the Chicago Consulate (as well as the LA Consulate) because they are the only two on the US that require notarization of the O-A (long stay) required paperwork (medical and police report)

Do it via mail through the Embassy in Washington, where no notary is required. If you provide them with the correct number of copies (follow their web site requirements) they can do it with a two day turn around, just use Express Mail from the USPS

Isn't the notarization quite simple though. They are not, as I understand it, asking for your doctor and police department to actually sign the documents. It is the petitioner who takes the documents and has them notarized with their own signature. Done for free at my bank.

Depends, some notaries will notarize documents as being "true copies" others will not. They are not notarizing your signature, it is not your signature on the police report or the medical certificate. Others have reported it to be easy, others have reported it to be difficult. I prefer to prevent problems in the first place, so that I why I used the Embassy in Washington and now the Consulate in New York, as is everything dealing with Thailand, your mileage may vary.

I am confused again. I work with a person who is a notary public and they have notarized some documents for me. When I sign the document in front of her, she then notarizes my signature as being done by myself. She has no knowledge of the vailidity or truth or anything else about the document. Only that she verifies that I have signed it.

[lopburi3]

Believe the intended requirement is you sign each document at bottom and your signature is notarized - making you libel for any false document. But you would have to make sure with the Consulate involved. So that should be the easy way and any bank should do for you in USA (normally without charge if customer). Others have tried to get the document signing signature notarized and that can be a real problem.

[Langsuan Man]

This whole notarization question is due to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) requirement that the health certificate, police report, and proof of sufficient income be notarized. Fortunately, just like Immigration offices here, each Thai Embassy or Consulate follows their own interpretation of the rule (meaning that LA and Chicago won't accept the burden that the notary requirement causes)

As far a whether or not a notary will place their seal on the document it is up to them, but many will not since they do not know if they are notarizing your signature on the document (which is not required by the MFA) or notarizing that the document is correct

It is similar to the doctors certificate. Most doctors will just sign the thing since they realize that the requirements are a little behind the times, others will actually make you get tested for:

Leprosy, Tuberculosis, drug addiction, Elephantiasis, and third phase of Syphlis, as indicated in the Ministerial Regulation No. 14 B.E. 2535

[NancyL]

Yup, our doctor made us get tested for all that stuff (cha-ching!).

We applied thru the Chicago consulate, too. Don't believe a word they say about turn-around times.

They said 7 days but three weeks later, after emails were ignored, we called and they said something about having many Thai and U.S. holidays during the time when we applied. Finally, our passports arrived the day before our non-refundable flight reservations for the big move. By then it was too late to realize they hadn't given us each an O-A visa, but rather had given me a multi-entry 12-month O visa -- despite my having turned in the doctor's and police forms and having my own savings well in excess of 800,000 baht. I guess they figured I was a dependent spouse. What it meant was that I had to do border runs every 90 days.

So, I still had to transfer 800,000 baht into Thailand soon after arrival to extend that almost worthless O visa into a 12-month retirement extension. What a waste of time, effort and money to submit all the b-s to try to get an O-A visa!

I don't recommend working with the Chicago consulate at all -- they'll steer you, the husband toward a O-A retirement visa and then give your wife an O visa that requires border runs because she's a "dependent", even if she has her own savings and doesn't want to piggy-back on her husband's visa.

In retrospect we should have sent our stuff to Portland or Dallas and applied for 90-day O visas for the purpose of "investigating retirement". I've gone into more detail than interests most on other threads about the hassles of getting the doctor's form, police record and financial worth b-s paperwork Chicago required. We met with hurdles at every point -- at a time when we were trying to sell our business assets, our household items, find a home for our pets and get our house on the market. It was a very stressful time and the nonsense associated with getting an O-A visa just wasn't worth it.

Edited June 11, 2013 by NancyL

[rogerluli]

That's great info Nancy... We are headed down a similar track and also are near Chicago...Now that I know that my wife would only get the O visa it does become completely pointless to get an O-A for myself...

[ubonjoe]

That's great info Nancy... We are headed down a similar track and also are near Chicago...Now that I know that my wife would only get the O visa it does become completely pointless to get an O-A for myself...

Contact one of the honorary consulates listed here for your single entry O visas http://www.visetkaew.com/wp/directories/ .

There also have been cases where only the husband got the OA visa expecting the wife to be able to get a dependent extension from immigration for the wife but could not do it because immigration does not have the authority to issue them on a OA visa entry.

Edited June 12, 2013 by ubonjoe