Australia to Send Refugees to Papua New Guinea

[Will27]

One person dead, others seriously injured during violent Manus Island clashes

One asylum seeker has died and scores have been seriously injured on a second night of violence in Manus Island, Immigration Minster Scott Morrison has confirmed.

Speaking to reporters in Darwin, Mr Morrison said the person died while on their way to hospital for treatment for a head injury and 77 people have been injured, 13 seriously.

The Immigration Minister said PNG police ''were not in the centre'' at the time of the attack.

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/one-person-dead-others-seriously-injured-during-violent-manus-island-clashes-20140218-32x3k.html

As harsh as is sounds and as tragic as it is, this is exactly the type of publicity that is needed.

Previously, detainee's sitting in detentions centres or on bridging visa's telling all and sundry to make the journey

was just increasing the influx.

Perhaps now, this will be another deterrent.

[simple1]

Aren't the majority of the detainees on the Island Sri Lankan and they are all being sent back because they are not refugees. I believe 1,000 were sent back to Sri Lanka a few months ago and people coming from Sri Lanka will not be considered genuine refugees but economic refugees.

As far as I'm aware there is no detailed breakdown on the origin of the people being detained in PNG or other places under the Pacific Solution. Yes, some Sri Lankans were returned after being assessed as economic refugees, but not the majority. I question there is a policy that all Sri Lankans are automatically defined as economic refugees, as they would have to, or should be assessed. Remember that the Sri Lanka government is refusing to co-operate with the inquiry into war crimes committed by their security forces, including 40,000 Tamil civilians killed by security forces in the last few months of the civil war.

[simple1]

it's claimed that the cause for the unrest is the announcement by both the PNG & Australian governments that they will not approve applying for resettlement in a third party country. If postively assessed must reside in PNG. Unsure if this means they are excluded from access to UNHCR processes/policy, but sounds like this is so. In my personal opinion this policy is a unique discriminatory punishment in contradiction to the norm of human rights by a Western democratic country.

In reply to Chooka it has been repeatdly stated that the 'boat people' are/were misinformed by the people smugglers regarding their status if arriving by sea. However it does seem that the message is finally getting through

To be honest simple1, I think it's quite naïve to think/believe that the "boat people" were misinformed, lied to, whatever,

in relation to this.

The majority of these people have internet access, access to social media, news etc not to mention mobile phones

where they can phone friends and or relations in Australia.

Why do you think they flocked to Australia after Rudd had opened the gates? They weren't told by people smugglers.

May be so, but the people smugglers knew the facts

[canman]

Aren't the majority of the detainees on the Island Sri Lankan and they are all being sent back because they are not refugees. I believe 1,000 were sent back to Sri Lanka a few months ago and people coming from Sri Lanka will not be considered genuine refugees but economic refugees.

A good call by Aus sending back Sri Lankans. Canada's experience with them is telling: http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/08/21/15098766.html

[BookMan]

Another very interesting article from the same paper, the Toronto Sun:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2010/08/21/15098776.html

Send the Tamils home': poll

OTTAWA - If there's one thing Canadians of all political stripes can agree on, it's sending the Tamil wannabe refugees home.

Even a majority of NDP supporters (52%) think the Tamil boat people should be turned away, with 27% saying they should be taken in as political refugees, according to a recent Leger Marketing poll conducted exclusively for QMI Agency.

In fact, a majority of supporters from all political parties - except the Liberals - think the Tamils should be turned away, even escorted back to Sri Lanka by the Canadian Navy.But Scholz said it isn't likely a racist sentiment being expressed in the numbers, rather Canadians probably want all new Canadians to follow the same rules.

In 2006, Leger participated in a large global study on immigration and 74% of Canadians agreed immigration was a good thing for the country, while only 19% thought it was bad.

"Maybe things have changed in four years, but maybe this is not about allowing people into the country," he said. "Maybe it's about the method of arrival and the queue-jumping."

[BookMan]

That K Rudd & J Gillard certainly have a lot of blood on their hands.

The current Australian govt certainly has it work cut out for it in an attempt to clean up after these two douchbags and no doubt the bleeding hearts are going to be whipped into a frenzy with a bit of help from the Australian media circus before it all ends with a court case where Australian taxpayer will fund a case against themselves so a big payout can be awarded to the asylum seekers that were injured in their own riot.

I can almost here that dweeb bill shorten now..... A sickening little whine he has.

Not only has KRudd and his mates driven the Australian economy to the wall, they are still costing the Australian tax payer hundreds of millions of dollars with this failed policy of,theirs and worse still there are more deaths and injuries. Where will it ever end?

Sadly, there are genuine refugees caught up in the middle of this mess and ongoing nonesense like this is hardly going to speed their cause up.

I'm sure Abbott and company are actually profusely thanking Rudd for his PNG solution. This is the largest deterrent to refugees arriving by boat.

The turn back the boats farce is a media show only and one that has the potential for long term damage with relations with Indonesia.

I'd say that the Abbott government was further gifted a free pass with the PNG solution, which has resulted in dramatically reduced boat numbers leaving Indonesian shores, which in turn has meant that there are stuff all boast that need to be turned around.

[neverdie]

^ sorry bookman, nice try. I understand if you were born a few weeks before,the demise of KRudd and his mates HOWEVER, if you just go back a little bit and not that far you will see that Manus Island was,actually a lib/nats policy of the Howard govt.

Kevin Rudd has done nothing to benefit the situation, in fact if only he had kept his grubby little incompetent hands off the policy in the first place.

Credit where credit is due, Kevin buggered this up.

[BookMan]

^ sorry bookman, nice try. I understand if you were born a few weeks before,the demise of KRudd and his mates HOWEVER, if you just go back a little bit and not that far you will see that Manus Island was,actually a lib/nats policy of the Howard govt.

Kevin Rudd has done nothing to benefit the situation, in fact if only he had kept his grubby little incompetent hands off the policy in the first place.

Credit where credit is due, Kevin buggered this up.

Neverdie, the PNG solution was a Kevin Rudd policy.

The Manus Island detention centre was opened by John Howard, then closed a couple of years later. Labor re-opened Manus island in 2012.

Manus Island detention centre is not the PNG solution policy adopted by the Rudd government.

You are confusing two separate policies

[Will27]

That K Rudd & J Gillard certainly have a lot of blood on their hands.

The current Australian govt certainly has it work cut out for it in an attempt to clean up after these two douchbags and no doubt the bleeding hearts are going to be whipped into a frenzy with a bit of help from the Australian media circus before it all ends with a court case where Australian taxpayer will fund a case against themselves so a big payout can be awarded to the asylum seekers that were injured in their own riot.

I can almost here that dweeb bill shorten now..... A sickening little whine he has.

Not only has KRudd and his mates driven the Australian economy to the wall, they are still costing the Australian tax payer hundreds of millions of dollars with this failed policy of,theirs and worse still there are more deaths and injuries. Where will it ever end?

Sadly, there are genuine refugees caught up in the middle of this mess and ongoing nonesense like this is hardly going to speed their cause up.

I'm sure Abbott and company are actually profusely thanking Rudd for his PNG solution. This is the largest deterrent to refugees arriving by boat.

The turn back the boats farce is a media show only and one that has the potential for long term damage with relations with Indonesia.

I'd say that the Abbott government was further gifted a free pass with the PNG solution, which has resulted in dramatically reduced boat numbers leaving Indonesian shores, which in turn has meant that there are stuff all boast that need to be turned around.

I'm not that sure about the turn backs being a media farce BookMan. There have been at least 6 turn backs now.

Here is an interesting article on the policy.

Turn back to policy success

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/ct-letters/turn-back-to-policy-success-20140130-31pr8.html

I agree with the "free pass" by Rudd though. Both Rudd and Gillard under estimated the public's

feelings on boat arrivals and only realized they were backing a losing horse too late.

[neverdie]

Bookman,

You are splitting hairs. I understand the point that Manus island only formed part of the PNG solution that either Rudd or Gillard brought about, from memory it was Gillard and changes were made by Rudd in his 2 run.

The Howard government policy which was set up long before Rudd came to power was so very similar to the PNG solution which magically appeared years later (late Gillard 2012)

Manus island and a lot of,the Howard govt policies were overturned by KRudd very early into his terrible prime ministership.

Years of incompetent govt, fools with their hands off the wheel have led to the current situation. We will never know and there's no way to tell, however my bet for what it's worth is if the Howard govt policy had been left in place (& or perhaps slightly modified as required because circumstances do change) then no doubt Australia wouldn't be trying to play CATCH UP.

No doubt you also support KRudds stimulus of the Australian economy in 2008, where money was thrown around hand over fist, so much money wasted.

What Australians are seeing now is PAIN due mainly to Labour mismanagement of fiscal policy.

Spin it what way you like GILLARD/Rudd dropped the ball on this one, their PNG solution was nothing new and all Australians have these two to thank for the situation as it is.

As for relations with Indonesia, Abbott has worn a fair bit pressure over Labour decisions. As for turning boats back around to countries of origin, Indonesia needs to take some responsibility for not managing their borders and corruption. Typically that will be a hard pill to swallow for them.

[BookMan]

That K Rudd & J Gillard certainly have a lot of blood on their hands.

The current Australian govt certainly has it work cut out for it in an attempt to clean up after these two douchbags and no doubt the bleeding hearts are going to be whipped into a frenzy with a bit of help from the Australian media circus before it all ends with a court case where Australian taxpayer will fund a case against themselves so a big payout can be awarded to the asylum seekers that were injured in their own riot.

I can almost here that dweeb bill shorten now..... A sickening little whine he has.

Not only has KRudd and his mates driven the Australian economy to the wall, they are still costing the Australian tax payer hundreds of millions of dollars with this failed policy of,theirs and worse still there are more deaths and injuries. Where will it ever end?

Sadly, there are genuine refugees caught up in the middle of this mess and ongoing nonesense like this is hardly going to speed their cause up.

I'm sure Abbott and company are actually profusely thanking Rudd for his PNG solution. This is the largest deterrent to refugees arriving by boat.

The turn back the boats farce is a media show only and one that has the potential for long term damage with relations with Indonesia.

I'd say that the Abbott government was further gifted a free pass with the PNG solution, which has resulted in dramatically reduced boat numbers leaving Indonesian shores, which in turn has meant that there are stuff all boast that need to be turned around.

I'm not that sure about the turn backs being a media farce BookMan. There have been at least 6 turn backs now.

Here is an interesting article on the policy.

Turn back to policy success

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/ct-letters/turn-back-to-policy-success-20140130-31pr8.html

I agree with the "free pass" by Rudd though. Both Rudd and Gillard under estimated the public's

feelings on boat arrivals and only realized they were backing a losing horse too late.

6 turn backs! Come on Will27 that is a minuscule number , indicating there is stuff all boats making the journey for them to turn back. Can you imagine if they had turned back 50 boats in that time frame? Indonesia would be apoplectic. There was 400+ boat arrivals in 2012/13...

The policy success is the PNG solution. If Abbott took that away the boats would simply run the gauntlet. The risk of being turned back would be outweighed by the chance of landing in Australia. Abbott focuses on his boat turn backs because that is the campaigning soundbite he had for 3 months. 'We will turn back the boats!'. Politically he can't abandon the policy and he has lucked out in there being small numbers of boats to turn back.

As you would have seen, the article is written by a former Liberal politician who is now a lobbyist, so hardly unbiased.

[BookMan]

Bookman,

You are splitting hairs. I understand the point that Manus island only formed part of the PNG solution that either Rudd or Gillard brought about, from memory it was Gillard and changes were made by Rudd in his 2 run.

The Howard government policy which was set up long before Rudd came to power was so very similar to the PNG solution which magically appeared years later (late Gillard 2012)

Manus island and a lot of,the Howard govt policies were overturned by KRudd very early into his terrible prime ministership.

Years of incompetent govt, fools with their hands off the wheel have led to the current situation. We will never know and there's no way to tell, however my bet for what it's worth is if the Howard govt policy had been left in place (& or perhaps slightly modified as required because circumstances do change) then no doubt Australia wouldn't be trying to play CATCH UP.

No doubt you also support KRudds stimulus of the Australian economy in 2008, where money was thrown around hand over fist, so much money wasted.

What Australians are seeing now is PAIN due mainly to Labour mismanagement of fiscal policy.

Spin it what way you like GILLARD/Rudd dropped the ball on this one, their PNG solution was nothing new and all Australians have these two to thank for the situation as it is.

As for relations with Indonesia, Abbott has worn a fair bit pressure over Labour decisions. As for turning boats back around to countries of origin, Indonesia needs to take some responsibility for not managing their borders and corruption. Typically that will be a hard pill to swallow for them.

Neverdie, I am not splitting hairs. The policies are totally different.

Howard policy was about Offshore processing. Keeping people off Australian shores so they could not claim refugee status within Australia. They could still however attain Australian residency after going through the processes

The Rudd policy was about moving all unauthorized offshore arrivals to Manus Island AND striking a resettlement arrangement with PNG where they would have no possibility of attaining Australian residency.

I know that Abbott must kiss a photo of Rudd every day and thank him for the policy

[Will27]

That K Rudd & J Gillard certainly have a lot of blood on their hands.

The current Australian govt certainly has it work cut out for it in an attempt to clean up after these two douchbags and no doubt the bleeding hearts are going to be whipped into a frenzy with a bit of help from the Australian media circus before it all ends with a court case where Australian taxpayer will fund a case against themselves so a big payout can be awarded to the asylum seekers that were injured in their own riot.

I can almost here that dweeb bill shorten now..... A sickening little whine he has.

Not only has KRudd and his mates driven the Australian economy to the wall, they are still costing the Australian tax payer hundreds of millions of dollars with this failed policy of,theirs and worse still there are more deaths and injuries. Where will it ever end?

Sadly, there are genuine refugees caught up in the middle of this mess and ongoing nonesense like this is hardly going to speed their cause up.

I'm sure Abbott and company are actually profusely thanking Rudd for his PNG solution. This is the largest deterrent to refugees arriving by boat.

The turn back the boats farce is a media show only and one that has the potential for long term damage with relations with Indonesia.

I'd say that the Abbott government was further gifted a free pass with the PNG solution, which has resulted in dramatically reduced boat numbers leaving Indonesian shores, which in turn has meant that there are stuff all boast that need to be turned around.

I'm not that sure about the turn backs being a media farce BookMan. There have been at least 6 turn backs now.

Here is an interesting article on the policy.

Turn back to policy success

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/ct-letters/turn-back-to-policy-success-20140130-31pr8.html

I agree with the "free pass" by Rudd though. Both Rudd and Gillard under estimated the public's

feelings on boat arrivals and only realized they were backing a losing horse too late.

6 turn backs! Come on Will27 that is a minuscule number , indicating there is stuff all boats making the journey for them to turn back. Can you imagine if they had turned back 50 boats in that time frame? Indonesia would be apoplectic. There was 400+ boat arrivals in 2012/13...

The policy success is the PNG solution. If Abbott took that away the boats would simply run the gauntlet. The risk of being turned back would be outweighed by the chance of landing in Australia. Abbott focuses on his boat turn backs because that is the campaigning soundbite he had for 3 months. 'We will turn back the boats!'. Politically he can't abandon the policy and he has lucked out in there being small numbers of boats to turn back.

As you would have seen, the article is written by a former Liberal politician who is now a lobbyist, so hardly unbiased.

BookMan, they can only turn back boats that are arriving. Bottom line is that there have been no, nil, nada arrivals for

more than 60 days. Yep, 400 + boat arrivals previously thanks to Rudd and Gillard.

Whatever you think of the present government or Scott Morrison, they have delivered on the boat arrivals.

It's not just turn backs that the governments has implemented or is trying too.

I don't care what side of the fence an article is written by, but just read it and make up my own mind.

Sure he has his own views on boat arrivals, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

[Will27]

Bookman,

You are splitting hairs. I understand the point that Manus island only formed part of the PNG solution that either Rudd or Gillard brought about, from memory it was Gillard and changes were made by Rudd in his 2 run.

The Howard government policy which was set up long before Rudd came to power was so very similar to the PNG solution which magically appeared years later (late Gillard 2012)

Manus island and a lot of,the Howard govt policies were overturned by KRudd very early into his terrible prime ministership.

Years of incompetent govt, fools with their hands off the wheel have led to the current situation. We will never know and there's no way to tell, however my bet for what it's worth is if the Howard govt policy had been left in place (& or perhaps slightly modified as required because circumstances do change) then no doubt Australia wouldn't be trying to play CATCH UP.

No doubt you also support KRudds stimulus of the Australian economy in 2008, where money was thrown around hand over fist, so much money wasted.

What Australians are seeing now is PAIN due mainly to Labour mismanagement of fiscal policy.

Spin it what way you like GILLARD/Rudd dropped the ball on this one, their PNG solution was nothing new and all Australians have these two to thank for the situation as it is.

As for relations with Indonesia, Abbott has worn a fair bit pressure over Labour decisions. As for turning boats back around to countries of origin, Indonesia needs to take some responsibility for not managing their borders and corruption. Typically that will be a hard pill to swallow for them.

Neverdie, I am not splitting hairs. The policies are totally different.

Howard policy was about Offshore processing. Keeping people off Australian shores so they could not claim refugee status within Australia. They could still however attain Australian residency after going through the processes

The Rudd policy was about moving all unauthorized offshore arrivals to Manus Island AND striking a resettlement arrangement with PNG where they would have no possibility of attaining Australian residency.

I know that Abbott must kiss a photo of Rudd every day and thank him for the policy

Not to mention kissing his photo for opening the floodgates in the first place.

[neverdie]

Bookie,

Please warn me before you come up with crackers like this. Coffee on keypad stuff.

"I know that Abbott must kiss a photo of Rudd every day and thank him for the policy"

You are splitting hairs old sausage, but best we just agree to disagree because obviously your either kevin himself or one of his blind followers.

I Raekwon you are right about Abbott kissing his photo, handing the election and prime ministership over like that, what a gift.

By the way I'm no tony Abbott fan, but I'm saddened to see the poor state of affairs in once a great country. Labours legacy will haunt Australia for years to come and probably about time the libs sort out the financial system the greater general public will let the socialists back in and they'll impregnate it again. Pretty much what's happened for the last 30-50 years or so.

[neverdie]

I can imagine the only kiss Abbott would give to Rudd would be a 'Liverpool kiss'

[BookMan]

BookMan, they can only turn back boats that are arriving. Bottom line is that there have been no, nil, nada arrivals for

more than 60 days. Yep, 400 + boat arrivals previously thanks to Rudd and Gillard.

Whatever you think of the present government or Scott Morrison, they have delivered on the boat arrivals.

It's not just turn backs that the governments has implemented or is trying too.

I don't care what side of the fence an article is written by, but just read it and make up my own mind.

Sure he has his own views on boat arrivals, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

The point I am making is why there are stuff all boats arriving. Of course they can turn back 6 boats. Could they have turned back the numbers from the year before? Not a chance.

I am at a loss why so many Abbott supporters wont accept that the primary reason boat numbers are down is because of the PNG solution. That it was a Rudd policy shouldn't matter to them. They should actually be thanking Rudd for creating the contentious policy and also alienating many traditional Labor voters.

For any Abbott fan surely this a win win situation?

As for articles written by members of the Left or the Right. When I read either I take their opinion on board, but I rarely take what they say as unbiased fact. Both sides of the political spectrum push their own agenda.

The key ingredient this author misses out is the PNG solution. Not one mention of it.

[simple1]

Indonesia did agree, with Australia, whilst Labor was in office, to start applying more rigourous review for granting visas for nations identified as sources for refugees/asylum seekers. The first group was Iranians, I guess as a trial program, but futher collaboration has come to a halt with the 'push back the boats' policy.

The Indo government is not a signatory to the relevant UN Conventions, therefore not obliged to assist the Oz government. In addition I would imagine under considerable domestic pressure for all the arrivals trying to transit through their territory and of course having to keep an eye open for any issues that may contribute to Islamic extremism. What is always overlooked that arrivals are not allowed to legally work and other restrictions, so that would be a large push factor.

I do not believe for one minute that Indo is enjoying the experience of having to host all the refugees and must be pissed off with Oz government policy and actions. What will not help is the recent allegation that Oz security was spying on Indo/USA negotiations and passing on info gathered to USA. This begs the question on what constructive contribution to Indo, Oz can now make to assist Indo with managing the refugee issues.

[David48]

Sadly, there are genuine refugees caught up in the middle of this mess and ongoing nonsense like this is hardly going to speed their cause up.

+1

[David48]

... it has been repeatdly stated that the 'boat people' are/were misinformed by the people smugglers regarding their status if arriving by sea. However it does seem that the message is finally getting through

+1 also

Sadly, the people smugglers, the snake-oil salesman, would use every trick in the book to sell the seat in that boat.

In the end, only that criminial element profited ... they are the ones I really want sorted ... SCUM that they are

[vanillalatte]

........

The Indo government is not a signatory to the relevant UN Conventions, therefore not obliged to assist the Oz government. In addition I would imagine under considerable domestic pr.

........................

I do not believe for one minute that Indo is enjoying the experience of having to host all the refugees and must be pissed off with Oz government policy and actions. What will not help is the recent allegation that Oz security was spying on Indo/USA negotiations and passing on info gathered to USA. This begs the question on what constructive contribution to Indo, Oz can now make to assist Indo with managing the refugee issues.

We are critical about Indonesia policy,but lets look on similar problem in Europe:

Italy,instead of pushing back boats to Africa - they grant boat people residence status,so they can leave Italy and go enmasse to ...France!

France - keep refugee camp right next to the entry of Chunnel,and they keep their eyes closed when refugees jump on cargo trains going to UK.

This is all fountain of hypocrisy.

"Indonesia is not enjoying"? - Man! they are enjoying very much!This is money!BIG MONEY! this is big,black money - no tax!everybody in Indonesia is very happy.

Iranians? - going there by thousands,they do not need visa to enter Indonesia.

[BookMan]

Bookie,

Please warn me before you come up with crackers like this. Coffee on keypad stuff.

"I know that Abbott must kiss a photo of Rudd every day and thank him for the policy"

You are splitting hairs old sausage, but best we just agree to disagree because obviously your either kevin himself or one of his blind followers.

I Raekwon you are right about Abbott kissing his photo, handing the election and prime ministership over like that, what a gift.

By the way I'm no tony Abbott fan, but I'm saddened to see the poor state of affairs in once a great country. Labours legacy will haunt Australia for years to come and probably about time the libs sort out the financial system the greater general public will let the socialists back in and they'll impregnate it again. Pretty much what's happened for the last 30-50 years or so.

Neverdie, 'old sausage', I am just presenting the facts as they are to you.

Unlike yourself, I am not letting my emotion sway me from that.

[neverdie]

^ david48, yep I don't understand the pussy foot stuff around indo. Boats entering Australian waters originating from indo where greedy corrupt ppl in position of authority turn blind eyes to a huge illegal business that's booming.

Keep ur stinking boats indo and clean up ur mess or you''ll be dealt with. Sick of Australia taking backwards step to inconsiderate neighbours.

[Will27]

BookMan, they can only turn back boats that are arriving. Bottom line is that there have been no, nil, nada arrivals for

more than 60 days. Yep, 400 + boat arrivals previously thanks to Rudd and Gillard.

Whatever you think of the present government or Scott Morrison, they have delivered on the boat arrivals.

It's not just turn backs that the governments has implemented or is trying too.

I don't care what side of the fence an article is written by, but just read it and make up my own mind.

Sure he has his own views on boat arrivals, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

The point I am making is why there are stuff all boats arriving. Of course they can turn back 6 boats. Could they have turned back the numbers from the year before? Not a chance.

I am at a loss why so many Abbott supporters wont accept that the primary reason boat numbers are down is because of the PNG solution. That it was a Rudd policy shouldn't matter to them. They should actually be thanking Rudd for creating the contentious policy and also alienating many traditional Labor voters.

For any Abbott fan surely this a win win situation?

As for articles written by members of the Left or the Right. When I read either I take their opinion on board, but I rarely take what they say as unbiased fact. Both sides of the political spectrum push their own agenda.

The key ingredient this author misses out is the PNG solution. Not one mention of it.

I understand the point you're making about Rudd's PNG solution. But, Rudd dismantled a policy that was already working, don't forget that. He created the problem.

Rudd was all about creating a new "humane" refugee policy. That lasted until he realized that he was in danger of losing the election. He then implemented the PNG solution but it was too late. He couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again. The public was sick and tired of the avalanche of boats and would not forgive him.

BTW, I'm no Abbot fan, he just had nothing to beat. IMO, Turnball should be the PM but that's another topic.

[BookMan]

I understand the point you're making about Rudd's PNG solution. But, Rudd dismantled a policy that was already working,

don't forget that. He created the problem.

Rudd was all about creating a new "humane" refugee policy. That lasted until he realized that he was in danger of losing the

election. He then implemented the PNG solution but it was too late. He couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again.

The public was sick and tired of the avalanche of boats and would not forgive him.

BTW, I'm no Abbot fan, he just had nothing to beat. IMO, Turnball should be the PM but that's another topic.

I totally concur with what you say about Rudd (and Gillard) dismantling the policy of offshore processing, hence creating the problem of a massive increase in unauthorized offshore arrivals and then Rudd implementing the PNG solution to fix a problem.

Rudd's PNG solution was nothing more than an attempt to silence soundbites from Tony of 'turn back the boats/stop the boats'. It smacked of desperation. For a while there Tony had little to say.

As a political move it was extremely bold and no one saw it coming. It went against everything the Labor party had been saying up till that point.

Whether we agree with Rudd's policy or not is not the issue we have been debating these last few pages. Nor is the issue one of Labor's own policies causing the massive influx of boat arrivals in Australia (which I agree it did).

The issue is which part of the policy currently being undertaken has been the major contributor to stopping the number of refugee seeking boat departures from Indonesian waters.

Is it Abbott's boat turnbacks or Rudd's PNG Solution? For me it has to be the PNG solution. I would have said that regardless of whether Abbott or Rudd conjured it up.

Sure you can say Abbott's boat turnbacks is a resounding success. 6 out of 6 turned back so far.

This success though, is in heavy debt to the PNG solution, which simply has decimated refugee seeking boat departures from indonesian waters heading to Australia.

[Will27]

I understand the point you're making about Rudd's PNG solution. But, Rudd dismantled a policy that was already working,

don't forget that. He created the problem.

Rudd was all about creating a new "humane" refugee policy. That lasted until he realized that he was in danger of losing the

election. He then implemented the PNG solution but it was too late. He couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again.

The public was sick and tired of the avalanche of boats and would not forgive him.

BTW, I'm no Abbot fan, he just had nothing to beat. IMO, Turnball should be the PM but that's another topic.

I totally concur with what you say about Rudd (and Gillard) dismantling the policy of offshore processing, hence creating the problem of a massive increase in unauthorized offshore arrivals and then Rudd implementing the PNG solution to fix a problem.

Rudd's PNG solution was nothing more than an attempt to silence soundbites from Tony of 'turn back the boats/stop the boats'. It smacked of desperation. For a while there Tony had little to say.

As a political move it was extremely bold and no one saw it coming. It went against everything the Labor party had been saying up till that point.

Whether we agree with Rudd's policy or not is not the issue we have been debating these last few pages. Nor is the issue one of Labor's own policies causing the massive influx of boat arrivals in Australia (which I agree it did).

The issue is which part of the policy currently being undertaken has been the major contributor to stopping the number of refugee seeking boat departures from Indonesian waters.

Is it Abbott's boat turnbacks or Rudd's PNG Solution? For me it has to be the PNG solution. I would have said that regardless of whether Abbott or Rudd conjured it up.

Sure you can say Abbott's boat turnbacks is a resounding success. 6 out of 6 turned back so far.

This success though, is in heavy debt to the PNG solution, which simply has decimated refugee seeking boat departures from indonesian waters heading to Australia.

You won't get any argument from me there. The PNG solution was/is brilliant for what it was intended to do.

When it was announced, I just couldn't believe how smart it was and knew it would virtually stop the boats

over night (once word got out).

[simple1]

........

The Indo government is not a signatory to the relevant UN Conventions, therefore not obliged to assist the Oz government. In addition I would imagine under considerable domestic pr.

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I do not believe for one minute that Indo is enjoying the experience of having to host all the refugees and must be pissed off with Oz government policy and actions. What will not help is the recent allegation that Oz security was spying on Indo/USA negotiations and passing on info gathered to USA. This begs the question on what constructive contribution to Indo, Oz can now make to assist Indo with managing the refugee issues.

We are critical about Indonesia policy,but lets look on similar problem in Europe:

Italy,instead of pushing back boats to Africa - they grant boat people residence status,so they can leave Italy and go enmasse to ...France!

France - keep refugee camp right next to the entry of Chunnel,and they keep their eyes closed when refugees jump on cargo trains going to UK.

This is all fountain of hypocrisy.

"Indonesia is not enjoying"? - Man! they are enjoying very much!This is money!BIG MONEY! this is big,black money - no tax!everybody in Indonesia is very happy.

Iranians? - going there by thousands,they do not need visa to enter Indonesia.

Iranains do now need a visa, at least this was the intent, prior it was VOA.. One of the issues facing governments is that Iran does not accept involuntary returns.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-18/indonesia-to-change-visa-requirements-for-iranians/4829434

[simple1]

^ david48, yep I don't understand the pussy foot stuff around indo. Boats entering Australian waters originating from indo where greedy corrupt ppl in position of authority turn blind eyes to a huge illegal business that's booming.

Keep ur stinking boats indo and clean up ur mess or you''ll be dealt with. Sick of Australia taking backwards step to inconsiderate neighbours.

What are you talking about? Indonesia has is a fairly critical contribution to the US 'Pivot to Asia' strategy with the US providing military assistance, arms etc. Oz is also important as a base for future US strategy as well as Oz also recognising the importance of Indonesian relevance to regional security and trade routes. Indonesia will not be 'dealt with'

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[BookMan]

^ david48, yep I don't understand the pussy foot stuff around indo. Boats entering Australian waters originating from indo where greedy corrupt ppl in position of authority turn blind eyes to a huge illegal business that's booming.

Keep ur stinking boats indo and clean up ur mess or you''ll be dealt with. Sick of Australia taking backwards step to inconsiderate neighbours.

What are you talking about? Indonesia has is a fairly critical contribution to the US 'Pivot to Asia' strategy with the US providing military assistance, arms etc. Oz is also important as a base for future US strategy as well as Oz also recognising the importance of Indonesian relevance to regional security and trade routes. Indonesia will not be 'dealt with'.

That is quite comical, now you point it out

[neverdie]

^ david48, yep I don't understand the pussy foot stuff around indo. Boats entering Australian waters originating from indo where greedy corrupt ppl in position of authority turn blind eyes to a huge illegal business that's booming.

Keep ur stinking boats indo and clean up ur mess or you''ll be dealt with. Sick of Australia taking backwards step to inconsiderate neighbours.

What are you talking about? Indonesia has is a fairly critical contribution to the US 'Pivot to Asia' strategy with the US providing military assistance, arms etc. Oz is also important as a base for future US strategy as well as Oz also recognising the importance of Indonesian relevance to regional security and trade routes. Indonesia will not be 'dealt with'

.

You are reading too far into what I meant by dealt with. Pushing the refugees back to indo is what I'm talking about. Im typing iPhone, so trying to be brief. And that's being dealt with as far as I'm concerned. Did u think I'm taking them to war.... Lol. They could build a human bridge to oz if they wanted.

When I see Indonesia citizens burning the Australian flag, I think they really need to look within before being so damn offensive.

They allow the boat -smuggler industry to flourish, they need to step up.