Nok Air's plane skids off runway in Trang Province

[Andre0720]

More of an embarrassment than anything else.

And someone printed a 'lose face' situation. Not of a good omen...

[Tywais]

What other runway? There isn't another runway

Only based my comment on the OP - "In order to gain more space for abandoning sequence, the pilots turned the plane to the eastern runway located near Trang-Palean road"

Don't know what that means now. Looking at Google Maps the runway is 08/26 so the eastern runway would be 08. Unless they built another runway since that Google map update.

[wackysleet]

Happens anywhere in the world. It's just fodder for the Thai knockers.

AliasJohn.

This is a Thai discussion forum so what would you expect as it made headlines and of course it happens elsewhere but not every post is knocking Thais or are you just another apologist, any jokes are in a light hearted vein so relax.

[joboss]

I would have thought an emergency evacuation would have been csrried out. I see no slides deployed. Maybe i could be wrong. As they are very expensive Did they decide not to use them? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I guess it was an intelligent decision by the aircrew to keep the passengers dry.

[circusman]

You get the pilots you pay for.

[Chao Lao Beach]

You get the pilots you pay for.

I disagree, some are on OK pay, THAI anyway. Nok I do not know, but Thai Air Asia is peanuts.

I have never seen a country so guarded against any experience from foreign crew. Maybe N Korea ?

[Tywais]

I would have thought an emergency evacuation would have been csrried out. I see no slides deployed. Maybe i could be wrong. As they are very expensive Did they decide not to use them? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I guess it was an intelligent decision by the aircrew to keep the passengers dry.

Couple of real issues regarding the deployment of the slides when not necessary. One, there is an increased chance someone could get injured in the evacuation process as opposed to the conventional stair exit. 2nd, an increase in the stress of the passengers.

[GentlemanJim]

What other runway? There isn't another runway

Only based my comment on the OP - "In order to gain more space for abandoning sequence, the pilots turned the plane to the eastern runway located near Trang-Palean road"

Don't know what that means now. Looking at Google Maps the runway is 08/26 so the eastern runway would be 08. Unless they built another runway since that Google map update.

It means garbage. As you can clearly see there is one runway, there is not even a parallel taxi way. You would never try to turn off a runway to 'increase your abort distance' - ever. The mark where the aircraft is, is the turn off for the terminal, if the pilot tried to turn off there after an abort he needs shooting. There is nowhere else to turn off. Techniques are very clear, he should have maintained straight down the middle of the runway breaking as required. he may have aquaplaned and slid to the side as he was breaking but I would ignore any layman making statements that say ' he tried to turn off the runway during an abort', it is nonesense. At Trang and as at any other airport like this the aircraft makes its way to the end of the runway and turns through 180 degrees and back tracks under normal circumstances.

Edited August 7, 2013 by GentlemanJim

[Tywais]

I would ignore any layman making statements that say ' he tried to turn off the runway during an abort', it is nonesense. .

Being a pilot myself I'm not exactly a layman but have been scratching my head as to why a pilot would do what was posted in the article ("The plane then skidded off the runway during its turning") , which is all I have to base my previous response on. The parking pad turnoffs are the only place he could attempt to 'turn' and as mentioned would be improper procedure and unlikely was what happened.

[Braveheart24]

Why did the pilots determine weather before takeoff run?

Is risking ground looping by changing runway standard operating procedure for abandoned takeoff?

V1 V2 are there for a reason. Learn how to fly the aircraft please.

[circusman]

You get the pilots you pay for.

I disagree, some are on OK pay, THAI anyway. Nok I do not know, but Thai Air Asia is peanuts.

I have never seen a country so guarded against any experience from foreign crew. Maybe N Korea ? .

So by what you just said you don't disagree with me

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that was gets reported in the "news" stories here ends up bearing very little resemblance to the truth of the matter.

It seems the authorities here often just make things up as they go along. You'd think they were moonlighting as novelists...bad novelists...but novelists nonetheless.

[harrry]

Why did the pilots determine weather before takeoff run?

Is risking ground looping by changing runway standard operating procedure for abandoned takeoff?

V1 V2 are there for a reason. Learn how to fly the aircraft please.

These speeds are defined in FAR 25 for transport category aircraft.

V1 is the takeoff decision speed - if an engine failure occurs below this speed you abort or reject the takeoff. If it occurs above this speed you continue the takeoff.

Vr is the rotation speed - where the nose gear is raised off the runway surface, but must allow the aircraft to accelerate to V2 before the aircraft reaches 35ft above the takeoff surface.

V2 is the takeoff safety speed - this minimum speed must be reached before the aircraft reaches 35ft above the takeoff surface with one engine inoperative. It guarantees a specific climb gradient up to 1500ft for obstacle clearance. From the time the landing gear is retracted until 400ft (second takeoff segment), it guarantees a 2.4%, 2.7%, and 3.0% climb gradient for 2-, 3-, and 4-engine airplanes. Above 400ft (final takeoff segment) to 1500ft the climb gradients are 1.2%, 1.5%, and 1.7% for 2-, 3-, and 4-engine airplanes.

Vfto - the minimum speed for the enroute climb above 1500ft until the aircraft reaches a cruise altitude.

Pinched that off the web...but when I was taught for my ppl many years ago it was exactly what I was told. at v1 you should allways have enough room to stop in a straight line which was also emphasised. If there would not be room to stop something has gone wrong with the distance calculations and the takeoff should not even be started.

Of course they may have cut more corners now as this was a while ago.

Where and when did you learn to fly the aircraft?

[Tywais]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that was gets reported in the "news" stories here ends up bearing very little resemblance to the truth of the matter.

Does appear NNT got some 'facts' wrong in this, it doesn't make sense after looking further now. Also, a rejected takeoff can be from a variety of things besides weather such as a critical alarm going off. The weather may or may not been the deciding factor though it probably played a large part in the skidding off the runway as normal procedure requires applying full braking in a rejected takeoff. Here's an old training film on rejected (aborted) takeoffs. Most info in it is still valid such as the V1 requirements.

[Cuban]

Easy to knock Nok after the event and with clear weather photographs but a commercial pilot will not abort a rolling take-off without good reason and knowing how steady heavy rain can become gusty torrential rain within moments.

I fully understand the pilot's actions, better to risk going off runway and possible under carriage damage than get slammed into the runway in a non-viable take off.

[rosst]

Why did the pilots determine weather before takeoff run?

They get a full weather briefing as part of the preflight procedures. Just prior to roll out the tower will give them final wind conditions. It's possible during the roll out that a major shift in wind conditions occurred exceeding their maximum cross wind component which requires an abort or if a microburst detected. Unlikely equipment to detect microburst is available there but it is standard procedure that other pilots who have just departed to call in such conditions if they experience them.

Very nice reply, full marks to the pilot, everybody is fine. Forget the Gung Ho attitude, for whatever reason the pilot adjudged the conditions were too dangerous and aborted, well done I say. If you were sitting in that seat with all those lives in your hands, this was the right decision. I would fly with that guy anywhere any time.

[ginjag]

Trying to turn off a runway halfway down at some speed trying to abort ???? As said why not carry on with your breaking on the main runway when you have 40% of it left.

IF the short tarmac to the terminal was used then I would have thought -maybe--bad judgement by the pilot --- -error.

If he had reached the end of the runway and still at some spead he would have to try to turn off. Suppose we will have to wait for the official report on the incident---Ha Ha but rarely there is a follow up, not forgetting this is Thai Airways company---Government control ????

[GentlemanJim]

Easy to knock Nok after the event and with clear weather photographs but a commercial pilot will not abort a rolling take-off without good reason and knowing how steady heavy rain can become gusty torrential rain within moments.

I fully understand the pilot's actions, better to risk going off runway and possible under carriage damage than get slammed into the runway in a non-viable take off.

At the end of the day that's it. It takes balls the size of Jupiter to abort a take off when you are sat in one of those machines going max chat down the runway. I am sure an investigation will reveal why very quickly, and also whether procedure was broken or not. If everyone on here can ignore the statement from the Trang Airport official (who has likely never had to give a press statement in 20 years) then there is not much to complain about. I just cannot imagine the pilot in the middle of a breaking abort trying to make that turn off into the terminal, if he did, he would be 'in' the terminal. A brake issue on one side could have caused him to veer off centerline during max breaking, or an issue involving aquaplaning (i have only had it once in 22 years and it required a change of underwear!). Any landing/full stop you walk away from is a success

[harrry]

Easy to knock Nok after the event and with clear weather photographs but a commercial pilot will not abort a rolling take-off without good reason and knowing how steady heavy rain can become gusty torrential rain within moments.

I fully understand the pilot's actions, better to risk going off runway and possible under carriage damage than get slammed into the runway in a non-viable take off.

At the end of the day that's it. It takes balls the size of Jupiter to abort a take off when you are sat in one of those machines going max chat down the runway. I am sure an investigation will reveal why very quickly, and also whether procedure was broken or not. If everyone on here can ignore the statement from the Trang Airport official (who has likely never had to give a press statement in 20 years) then there is not much to complain about. I just cannot imagine the pilot in the middle of a breaking abort trying to make that turn off into the terminal, if he did, he would be 'in' the terminal. A brake issue on one side could have caused him to veer off centerline during max breaking, or an issue involving aquaplaning (i have only had it once in 22 years and it required a change of underwear!). Any landing/full stop you walk away from is a success

Which was my original reply. It was reported he changed runway which thought would be unwise.

[cgjtt]

RVR, runway visual range, upon line up with the runway, if you cant see a certain distance on the runway, you don't go, V1 means the speed at which if you initiate an abort you will have sufficient distance to stop. Either these guys tried to take off in below operational condition and lost visual alignment with the runway then tried to stop or figured they couldn't stop and put in it the grass. The last check before V1 is distance and speed, if you don't have 100 knots say at the 2000 meter marker then abort. Apply full brakes until stop and maintain directional control or the auto brakes should apply by themselves with the selection of engine thrust reverse and spoilers. So why did they not maintain directional control ??

It would be nice if someone could proved the METAR for that time.

[Diablo Bob]

Trying to turn off a runway halfway down at some speed trying to abort ???? As said why not carry on with your breaking on the main runway when you have 40% of it left.

IF the short tarmac to the terminal was used then I would have thought -maybe--bad judgement by the pilot --- -error.

If he had reached the end of the runway and still at some spead he would have to try to turn off. Suppose we will have to wait for the official report on the incident---Ha Ha but rarely there is a follow up, not forgetting this is Thai Airways company---Government control ????

I might be mistaken, but since this is a USA manufactured aircraft, both Boeing and the NTSB will be part of the accident investigation team.

[transam]

It was leaves, weeeeeeell in UK it's always leaves with trains. , sounds good to me, yep, leaves.

[Bagwan]

These guys need some new pilots... i have flown nok air a few times and each landing is always a bit rough, dunno if its the planes, but we landed way too fast once at chaing mai and it wasn't pretty :/

Reminds me of a story about an elderly lady's reaction after a very heavy landing. It used to be the particular airlines policy that the First Officer would stand at the front door with members of the cabin staff to say farewell and thank you for flying with us as passengers alighted. The ancient tapped the First Officer on the arm as she reached the door and asked, "Young man, did we land or did we crash?"

Many moons ago I was the Steward in charge on a UK domestic trip, Heathrow to Belfast (Nutts Corner). The ride was very bumpy as we descended and the constant changes in engine speed and uneven flight level indicated that the 'bus drivers' up front were having their work cut out. The landing was quite heavy, although I had experienced much worse, and I and members of the cabin staff team were on our feet and out in the cabin as soon as we felt reverse thrust applied. Everything appeared normal and routine as we felt the bumps as we encountered the joins on the concrete sections of the runway as the aircraft lost speed, but then the ride became quite rough. The airplane came to a halt too abruptly for my liking and then tilted over to starboard. I called 'Emergency Evacuation' and my associates opened all the doors and set off the emergency escape chutes. We had cleared about a hundred of the passengers when 'God' came out of the cockpit and said 'No need for evacuation". He then looked out of the door at a huddled bunch of passengers standing in pouring rain and up to their ankles in mud. Turning through 180 degrees and looking out the other door he saw a similar sight. I'll never forget his pained look and his muttered "Oh, <deleted>." At least he had the good grace to say afterwards that I had made the right decision.

[Tywais]

It would be nice if someone could proved the METAR for that time.

Much better picture of what was going on here. Looks like differential braking due to heavy water on the runway, that is less traction on one side than the other.

Incidents > Nok Air B738 at Trang on Aug 6th 2013, runway excursion during rejected takeoff.

A Nok Air Boeing 737-800, registration HS-DBM performing flight DD-7411 from Trang to Bangkok Don Muang (Thailand) with 142 people, accelerated for takeoff from Trang's runway 08 at about 17:45L (10:45Z) in rain and strong winds when the crew rejected takeoff. During the slow down the aircraft veered to the right and came to a stop about half way down the runway with all gear on soft ground off the right hand edge of the runway. The passengers disembarked onto the runway via the left hand rear exit and mobile stairs. No injuries occurred, the aircraft received minor if any damage.

At the time of the incident a heavy rain shower and gusting winds were reported.

Metars (the airport did not release any Metars after 09:00Z):

VTST 060900Z 19006KT 9999 SCT020 SCT120 BKN300 28/24 Q1007 RWY08 INFO F

VTST 060800Z 18005KT 9999 SCT018 SCT025 BKN120 27/23 Q1007 RWY08 INFO E

VTST 060700Z 19004KT 9999 SCT020 BKN120 BKN300 26/23 Q1008 RERA RWY08 INFO D

VTST 060200Z 00000KT 6000 -RA SCT018 BKN120 OVC300 25/24 Q1010 RWY08 INFO C

VTST 060100Z 17004KT 6000 SCT018 BKN120 OVC300 24/24 Q1010 RERA RWY08 INFO B

Aeroinside

[jojodontyouknow]

Tomorrows headline..... "Driver flees scene after snapping aircraft in two with crane."

I hate the cynicism on this site...But I #@$%ing love it too!!

[ableguy]

Why did the pilots determine weather before takeoff run?

Is risking ground looping by changing runway standard operating procedure for abandoned takeoff?

As an ex pilot visability is the determening factor.

[vegasphl]

I am not a pilot...but dont the runways have to total 36 degrees (360). 26 plus 8 equals 34 degrees (340). The opposite direction of Runway 26 should be Runway 10. Maybe I am wrong. Please correct me if I am. Thanks. Like I said...I am not a pilot.

[Tywais]

I am not a pilot...but dont the runways have to total 36 degrees (360). 26 plus 8 equals 34 degrees (340). The opposite direction of Runway 26 should be Runway 10. Maybe I am wrong. Please correct me if I am. Thanks. Like I said...I am not a pilot.

260 - 80 = 180 degrees. runway 26 means 260 degrees, runway 08 means 80 degrees. Details below.

Runway Numbers

Runways are numbered according the magnetic compass direction they are oriented to. They consist of two numbers, one at each end of the runway, each being the reciprocal of the other on the magnetic compass (180° opposite from each other).

One number is formed by rounding the compass bearing of one end of the runway up or down to the nearest 10° and dropping the last digit; if this results in a single digit, add a zero to the left of it. The other number is the reciprocal of the first number (see the table of Reciprocal Runway Numbers below). For example, if a runway is aligned north-south, then it is 18/36, not 00/18. The lower number is always listed first.

Runways have two ends. Each end is considered a different runway, even though it is the same actual runway surface.

If the compass heading of a runway is 122° you would round it down to 120 and drop the last digit, leaving you with 12. Thus it is called Runway 12/30.

If the compass heading of a runway is 37°, you would round it up to 40 and drop the last digit, leaving you with 4. Since this is a single digit, you add a zero to the beginning, giving you 04. Thus it is called Runway 04/22. Both Ellington and Hobby airports have a 04/22 runway.

HoustonSpotters

[vegasphl]

Thanks Tywais. You explanation was very in-depth. Here in Vegas the main landing/take off runway is 25L & 25R (westerly direction). I know the opposite direction is 09L & 09R. Had I given it some thought....I should have figured that one out. I majored in Hotel Admin where I should have majored in Aeronautical Eng.

[BwindiBoy]

These guys need some new pilots... i have flown nok air a few times and each landing is always a bit rough, dunno if its the planes, but we landed way too fast once at chaing mai and it wasn't pretty :/

On the other hand, it could just be that this pilot saved 142 + lives...! A hero, in fact!?!