Bought a used CBR250 and rode her home!

[robblok]

I also don't think a cbr250r is small i loved the bike, i moved up to a ninja 650 (never thought 250cc would not be enough for me) I love the extra power just opening the throttle you can pass whatever you want in whatever gear / rmp you want. (meaning you don't need to stay in high revs). Other than that I am not going faster in general then my cbr250r.

[Gomyway]

@Lancelot, it was very nice to read your op and congrats for your bike.

From what i'd read in german tests about the 250 Honda for this engine it's a lil bit harder to rev higher then 9000 rpm especially in the 6th gear, so don't mind about that.

I think the 250 CBR has a good torque and that would also help you saving fuel and from what i'd read everywhere you better stay away from E20, since those bikes until now are not ready for this crap (E10 or better known as Gasohol from the technical pov is crap already and at least not good for anything other then helping those farmers making money).

Good luck and many safe rides.

[Lancelot]

@Lancelot, it was very nice to read your op and congrats for your bike.

From what i'd read in german tests about the 250 Honda for this engine it's a lil bit harder to rev higher then 9000 rpm especially in the 6th gear, so don't mind about that.

I think the 250 CBR has a good torque and that would also help you saving fuel and from what i'd read everywhere you better stay away from E20, since those bikes until now are not ready for this crap (E10 or better known as Gasohol from the technical pov is crap already and at least not good for anything other then helping those farmers making money).

Good luck and many safe rides.

Thanks G.

About E20, the owner's manual lists the following fuesl for the CBR250:

1 Benzine 91

2 Gasohol 95, E10

3 E20, also 95 Octane

4 Gasohol 91, E10

Yeah, I guess I'm helping out the farmers, 555

[Lancelot]

Well the saga continues...

My name is in the Green Book, and there is an entry saying the bike is now registered in Chonburi (Still have the Sukhothai plates)

However there is a red stamp on the transfer receipt (from Sukhothai) saying that I must report to my new DLT office (Chonburi) with in 15 days.

Any one else had an experience similar to this? The transfer fee was 480 baht, so maybe that included Chonburi number tags? (Naa, always must pay more, 555)

Ideas?

[Lancelot]

I've gone native in many areas, but I still "thiink too much..."

After thinking about the red stamp on my receipt -Must Report to New DLT in 15 Days- for adding my name to the Green Book, I duly presented myself at Chonburi DLT.It was pretty easy, they wanted copies of my passport, Green Book and an Immigration Residence Letter. Luckily Sukhothai accepted a color scanned copy of my original Residence Letter, so I didn't have to get another one. They checked the frame serial number, didn't bother with the engine number, and issued me a new Chonburi plate and tax sticker valid until March. Total cost was 125 baht and only one trip to Chonburi DLT.

When I bought the CBR150 at Korat, I made all the changes at Chonburi, total cost 415 baht, but a 4 month wait for the new tag. For the CBR250, I paid Sukhothai DLT 480 baht to add my name to the Green Book, then 125 baht at Chonburi for the new tag, issued immediately. Total cost of 605 baht

Why the 190 baht cost difference- beats me, TIT

[Gomyway]

@Lancelot, it was very nice to read your op and congrats for your bike.

From what i'd read in german tests about the 250 Honda for this engine it's a lil bit harder to rev higher then 9000 rpm especially in the 6th gear, so don't mind about that.

I think the 250 CBR has a good torque and that would also help you saving fuel and from what i'd read everywhere you better stay away from E20, since those bikes until now are not ready for this crap (E10 or better known as Gasohol from the technical pov is crap already and at least not good for anything other then helping those farmers making money).

Good luck and many safe rides.

Thanks G.

About E20, the owner's manual lists the following fuesl for the CBR250:

1 Benzine 91

2 Gasohol 95, E10

3 E20, also 95 Octane

4 Gasohol 91, E10

Yeah, I guess I'm helping out the farmers, 555

Lancelot in another case I've been looking into the manual from the CBR 250 and believe me that I don't want to force you or anybody else to do what you or they don't like.

But in the 2011 manual (found on Motorcycle.in.th) I'd read this about fuel for the Honda CBR 250R:

[KRS1]

I just put in 100 baht of E20 today to see how it runs.

Dont really know what to think about it yet.

[Gomyway]

I just put in 100 baht of E20 today to see how it runs.

Dont really know what to think about it yet.

Ride her, enjoy the ride and don't think to much about it - the one time won't kill anything.

And most important, take care.

[ll2]

there was a mid size E20 emblem on the cover of my cbr250r manual or service book.

[TheVagabond]

Awesome report and congrats on the new wheels. I sold my GSX-R 600 2 years ago here in the states (had is 10 years) and when I get to Thailand in about 1 month I was gonna buy a cheap scooter but this thread has me thinking...........

[KRS1]

I just put in 100 baht of E20 today to see how it runs.

Dont really know what to think about it yet.

glad i only put 100 baht in there, all gone now

to be fair though i had it in there for a day and a half, ecu might not have had a chance to adjust.

[Lancelot]

I just put in 100 baht of E20 today to see how it runs.

Dont really know what to think about it yet.

glad i only put 100 baht in there, all gone now

to be fair though i had it in there for a day and a half, ecu might not have had a chance to adjust.

I've filled up about six times already and used E20 each time. I'm not saying that your bike runs poorly on E20 but mine runs just fine. The Model T Ford, in production from about 1908-27 could run on gasoline or 100% alcohol. The carb jet was variable and the driver would adjust the fuel ratio and spark advance when changing fuels. If those primative engines ran OK on 100% alcohol, why can't a modern, state of the art computer controlled engine run on a gasohol blend?

Gasohol Test- Small Engine.pdf

[Lancelot]

Awesome report and congrats on the new wheels. I sold my GSX-R 600 2 years ago here in the states (had is 10 years) and when I get to Thailand in about 1 month I was gonna buy a cheap scooter but this thread has me thinking...........

Hey fella, good to see you posting again

[Lancelot]

there was a mid size E20 emblem on the cover of my cbr250r manual or service book.

Same here. My 2008 Honda Wave CZi (110cc) also had an E20 emblem on the owners manual...

[Lancelot]

@Lancelot, it was very nice to read your op and congrats for your bike.

From what i'd read in german tests about the 250 Honda for this engine it's a lil bit harder to rev higher then 9000 rpm especially in the 6th gear, so don't mind about that.

I think the 250 CBR has a good torque and that would also help you saving fuel and from what i'd read everywhere you better stay away from E20, since those bikes until now are not ready for this crap (E10 or better known as Gasohol from the technical pov is crap already and at least not good for anything other then helping those farmers making money).

Good luck and many safe rides.

Thanks G.

About E20, the owner's manual lists the following fuesl for the CBR250:

1 Benzine 91

2 Gasohol 95, E10

3 E20, also 95 Octane

4 Gasohol 91, E10

Yeah, I guess I'm helping out the farmers, 555

Lancelot in another case I've been looking into the manual from the CBR 250 and believe me that I don't want to force you or anybody else to do what you or they don't like.

But in the 2011 manual (found on Motorcycle.in.th) I'd read this about fuel for the Honda CBR 250R:

Hi G! I have a copy of that Owners Manual too; mine is marked "Malaysia" However my Thai language Owners manual has a sticker saying Gasohol95, E10 and E20 are OK.

As I've said before, if the now ancient Model T Ford could run on 100% alcohol, why can't a modern engine perform well on an alcohol blend.

Not arguing with you and thanks for your input

[mania]

As I've said before, if the now ancient Model T Ford could run on 100% alcohol, why can't a modern engine perform well on an alcohol blend.

Well for one thing the compression ratio for a Model T was something low like 4:1

Your Honda is probably 11:1 or more

If you run a low enough octane rated fuel in a higher compression ratio engine you will likely have engine knock type detonation

But aside from that I kind of understand you are expecting that a new engine should easily do what ever

an old engine does.

It just does not work that way anymore than an old model engine can do what a new one does

sorry

But you know, try what ever you want & see how it goes.

Might be fine depending on how you use your engine etc.

I doubt a small batch of anything will cause permanent damage if your

wondering/willing to try, See what you think?

Edited August 29, 2013 by mania

[Gomyway]

I would not argue too, that's not my idea (live and let live) and it's up to everybody by himself to do what he wants to do or not.
If your manual says you can use E20 then just do it.
It is also true that earlier models in Germany (round about 80 years ago) were run with agrofuels in racing, but these engines were disassembled and checked after every race.

And you should also know that castor oil is very good in combination with gasohol (but engines run with castor oil must be overhauled every 1000 miles bc they gum up). Remember the smell of castor oil

So in case of your usage in the short run I think you won't get problems, this will occur in the long run (when there's no more warranty) and maybe until then you'd already sell the bike.
And a word about the ecu: an ecu from a motorcycle can not readjust its values like one from a car when using different fuel types. Compared to the ecu from a car the one from a motorcycle is a dumb device.
But I also understand that the main argument here, as always in such cases starts from price and technical discussions therefore are out of place.

[Lancelot]

As I've said before, if the now ancient Model T Ford could run on 100% alcohol, why can't a modern engine perform well on an alcohol blend.

Well for one thing the compression ratio for a Model T was something low like 4:1

Your Honda is probably 11:1 or more

If you run a low enough octane rated fuel in a higher compression ratio engine you will likely have engine knock type detonation

But aside from that I kind of understand you are expecting that a new engine should easily do what ever

an old engine does.

It just does not work that way anymore than an old model engine can do what a new one does

sorry

But you know, try what ever you want & see how it goes.

Might be fine depending on how you use your engine etc.

I doubt a small batch of anything will cause permanent damage if your

wondering/willing to try, See what you think?

Hi M!

Yes My CBR250's compression ratio is 10.7:1

E20 is 95 octane and the ECU should be able to adjust spark advance to the fuel being used.

Gasoline/Benzine91 (Red) has an octane rating of 91, so E20 and Gasohol95 (10) have higher octane ratings.

If the engine is designed to use alcohol blended fuels, I can not foresee a problem doing so

Edited August 30, 2013 by Lancelot

[mania]

If the engine is designed to use alcohol blended fuels, I can not foresee a problem doing so

I see your pic & they do say it is ok so I would think it is too.

Whether or not the performance of the fuel is satisfactory to you

is only something you can decide based on your riding style etc.

So you should give it a try & see how you like it.

Edited August 30, 2013 by mania

[Lancelot]

This from Honda Worl Wide press release 2008:

With the PGM-FI system, the new Honda motorcycles will have the following attributes; improved fuel economy by 18% (ECE 40 MODE) and ability to use E20 fuel, reduced emissions meeting the Emission Standards at level 6 prior to its official announcement. The emission rate is only 1/5 of the Standards at level 5 and 1/2 at level 6

http://world.honda.com/news/2008/c080722Honda-sets-PGM-FI/

[piston broke]

stop talking and get riding.........

[KRS1]

just because it can run E20 doesnt mean that its going to run at its fullest potential with it.

[Lancelot]

just because it can run E20 doesnt mean that its going to run at its fullest potential with it.

OK.

100% gasoline has 114,000 BTUs of energy

Gasohol91 (E10) has 112,000 BTUs

E20 has 106,420 BTUs

E20 has about 7% less energy content than pure gasoline.

I'm just an average rider and the bikes capabilities exceed my driving skills so E20 is ok for me. I had the bike up to 152 @9,000 RPMS in sixth gear.Including my backpack, about 94 kilos of driver weight. I've also had her to 10,000 RPMs in fourth, just short of 120 kmh/hr.

Enough potential for me

[ll2]

^

so how E85 is generating more power and popular among tuners?

just curious.

http://www.1000rr.net/forums/1000rr-mods-upgrades/62000-dynoed-tuned-yesterday-e85.html

Edited August 30, 2013 by ll2

[yankee99]

^

so how E85 is generating more power and popular among tuners?

just curious.

http://www.1000rr.net/forums/1000rr-mods-upgrades/62000-dynoed-tuned-yesterday-e85.html

I didnt see e85 mentioned?

[Lancelot]

^

so how E85 is generating more power and popular among tuners?

just curious.

http://www.1000rr.net/forums/1000rr-mods-upgrades/62000-dynoed-tuned-yesterday-e85.html

I didnt see e85 mentioned?

As an approved fuel for the CBR250? Correct, not mentioned.

In the above link? E85 in the link and article:

I went to the dyno yesterday armed with my Lc-1 and the knowledge i got from here and other places with the goal of making more power on E85 then pump gas. I have had awsome results running E85 in my daily driver (07 STI) and my street car(86 camaro). First few passes were on pump gas to get a baseline to hopefully improve on with E85. First map i used i got with my DK ecu with it i made 166rwhp and 80ftlbs. This is a dynojet but in my opion it was a high reading dyno but i didnt care I was there for another reason. The afr was really rich i knew it would be by looking at the map when i got it. Next few runs was a map i made from looking at maps posted here it was a lot leaner and it made 173rwhp 82ftlbs with the afr not being to far off in the mid and perfect on the top end i left it alone and decided to start on what i came to do. We siphoned out all the 93 and put in a few gallons of E85. Long story short you need ALOT of fuel to get this gas to run right. If i would have had control over my top injectors i could have gotten a better tune but i got the afr around 8.3 wich is about max lean for power on E85 and we pulled a degree of timing to achieve the max power which was 182rwhp and 87ftlbs of torque. So i made more power took it out for a ride and it deffinently felt stronger. Here are the graphs first is my first run compared to my last one. The second is my best pump gas runs.

I have seen a few Flex Fuel motorcycles online. Like it or not, ethanol will increasingly be blended with gasoline...

Honda CG150 Titan Mix, air cooled single, flex fuel. Runs on 100% Ethanol?

http://world.honda.com/FlexibleFuelTechnology/Motorcycles/index.html

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-picturebook/flexible-fuel/index.html

In any case, I am enjoying my CBR250

Edited August 31, 2013 by Lancelot