3x30 Year Lease In Isaan. Better Deal Than Company.

[silk123]

My wife and I have 2 houses both in her name.

The second one that we just bought in korat she wants to put in my name to keep me happy so i have a safety net if she absounds the scene or however you say.

We got the second house as it was very cheap and just needed a little tlc and paint and a carport and tiling to make it perfect.

I'm wondering if i should go the company route or the 3x30 lease route.

Likely we will only have the second house for 1 or2 years so to go the company route means i have to set up a company(10k) pay tax and also the transfer house taxes and fees(5%) which adds up to about 60k. After just paying transfer fees for her i'm looking for a better way.

I'm guessing it would be a lot better deal to just lease it from her which i'm guessing would cost next to nothing as i would be getting the lease for free(my money bought her the house) so no tax. then in a year or 2 when it comes to selling we could cancel the lease and she could sell.

Does that sound doable or am i better off just dumping the money and going the company route for a bit of security?

Appreciate it.

[Kf6vci]

Well, any change seems likely to improve your situation Right now, you don't have any rights and good luck changing that. My suggestion would be to record a mortgage exceeding the value of the house with her as debtor. (I read a heart wrenching story of a German who got suckered big time - the land register let his wife sell the property regardless of this entry and an attorney's written warning). Good luck - but as a seperated man, I would warn all of you out there NEVER to mix love with business! Be happy together but keep your eggs in your basket... Good luck

[Khun Jean]

My wife and I have 2 houses both in her name.

The second one that we just bought in korat she wants to put in my name to keep me happy so i have a safety net if she absounds the scene or however you say.

Just put it in your name then. Nothing is preventing this. While your at it. Make a lease for the land the house is on.

We got the second house as it was very cheap and just needed a little tlc and paint and a carport and tiling to make it perfect.

I'm wondering if i should go the company route or the 3x30 lease route.

This 3x30 is if everything goes wrong considered as maximum 30 years. If someone says something else, you know now they are lying and trying to scam you.

Likely we will only have the second house for 1 or2 years so to go the company route means i have to set up a company(10k) pay tax and also the transfer house taxes and fees(5%) which adds up to about 60k. After just paying transfer fees for her i'm looking for a better way.

You are right about that. House in your name land leased from her for a reasonable price.

I'm guessing it would be a lot better deal to just lease it from her which i'm guessing would cost next to nothing as i would be getting the lease for free(my money bought her the house) so no tax. then in a year or 2 when it comes to selling we could cancel the lease and she could sell.

Above answers should make it clear. put the house in your name!

Only thing i wonder about is, why ask when the deal is already done? I can understand if you trust your wife like i do mine that it is not always the first thing you think about. But as you are asking now, you must be feeling a bit of uneasyness. If that is true, do it fast.

[Sir Burr]

Listen and listen carefully.

There is no such thing in Thai law as a 30 year X 3 lease.

The most that you can get under Thai law is a 30 year lease with first refusal. That is it.

PS. Land in her name, house in yours is worthless, might as well put everything in her name.

If she decides that you cannot trespass on her land, then, you can't get to your house, can you?

Edited April 20, 2006 by Sir Burr

[silk123]

SO it look like put the house in my name and lease the land from her for 30 years and add the lease to the chanote.

Anybody done this already and what were the costs without the lawyer.

I'd like to know is it possible to lease the land for say a 1000 baht for 30 years as it was me who paid for it.

I got a lot of clauses from other threads to watertight it as much as possible.

It's just the second house i'd like in my name as a backup and also as incentive for her to stay with me and not stray or listen to the lowlifes in her family who would like to take everything from her.

My wife is good as they go, its just i hear so many stories and i worry about her family killing her as I would not put it beyond them to take everything. There is already a shameful story of a family member killing another family member and serving time but that is supposed to be hidden from me.

I'll post most of the ueful info i got on this from other threads below for reference. I use a great program called keynote for keeping all information together, ordered and secured by blowfish encryption.

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I think the best thing is to use a Real Estate Lawyer. First of all you want to make sure you are leasing it from the owner, and there are no leans or other leases on it already. I'm sure the lawyer will have a standard lease.

You want to get a 30/30 year lease.

Good luck

When I did this, I was shocked at how unsophiticated the lease was. The lawyer, and in Thailand they have undergraduate degree, explained that it is code law, not common law as in U.K or U.S., so much simpler.

While my lease is held by my love interest, I was concerned about what the Thai family would do, especially when I was really old and my Thai was deceased.

Thus I had the lawyer create the lease, he used original language, ( don't know is there is a standard one or not)

I also had him create a mortgage on the property in the amount of the purchase price of the land and house, (I gave ownership to both) receipt of the purchase money recited in the mortgage, and had the mortgage equate to the rent so in 30 years, when I am 97, the mortgage was paid off. The lease payments equaled the mortgage payments due, thus a wash.

Additionally, I had him put a penalty clause in the lease to the effect that if my "quiet enjoyment" was disturbed during the pendancy of the lease, a penalty of five million baht was payable.

Thus, "relatives" were faced with the 30 year lease, the penalty clause and a mortgage due on the propery to contend with if they wanted to evict me.

LivinLOS

2004-06-16 18:19:23

You can also have clauses which state that it should be renewable 2 more times but this is not truly enforcable by law (it will depend on the intention of the leasee after the 30 years are up) but does assist in fixing a price for 3x30 years.

Also wise to add is the clause that if land ownership does ever become possible for farang or non thais that you have first purchase option at a fixed (low) price.

Also be sure the lease gives EXCLUSIVE rights to the house AND land AND any other structures or improvements that exist at the time of the signing of the lease or are constructed or installed after the signing.

From http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php?t52993.html

LEASE AGREEMENT

AGREEMENT MADE AT_______________

_________________________________

_________________________________

DATE_____________________________

This Lease Agreement is between________________________________________

__________________________________hereafter known as the Lessor and

____________________________________________________________________

__________________________________hereafter known as the lessee

It is hereby agreed as follows

1. The Lessor agrees to lease and the Lessee agrees to rent a single storey home and land ,located at_______________________in accordance to Land Title Deed No.______________________Land Number_______________________________

Book number_________________________Page number____________________

Tambon__________________________Total Land Size_____________Sq Wah

hereinafter known as the "Said Premises" for a rent period of 30 years.

2.The Lessee agrees to a one time advance payment for the entire rent period in the amount of________________Baht (_______________) to the Lessor on the date of this Agreement.The Lessor and the Lessee agree to register the leasing terms and conditions at the District Land Office within 7 days after making this agreement. The rent begins on the date of registration at the District Land Office.

3. Both parties agree that the Lessee shall have an option to renew this lease for an additional 30 years, for rental terms and conditions as mutually agreed by both parties.

4. After the date of this agreement the Lessee shall have the right to live in and conduct legal and socially acceptable businesses in the Said Premises during the term of this Lease Agreement.

5. The Lessee agrees to take care of and to preserve the Said Premises as one would do to his/her own and maintain the upkeep of and also attend to repairs of the Said Premises which may be caused by accidental or intentional actions of the Lessee or the Lessee,s subordinates.

6.The Lessee may assign or sublet the Said Premises to other Parties. Should there be the need to make official registration or other legal proceedings,the Lessor agrees to give consent and to assist the Lessee in providing proper documentation and shall not ask for any returns from the Lessee. The Lessee agrees to pay for any fee and other expenses that may arise from such proceedings,

7. The Lessee agrees not to damage or deface the Said Premises or make structural alterations or additions thereto without the written consent in writing of the Lessor and all structural alterations shall be in accordance with government and municipal guidelines. The Lessee agrees to pay any costs involved while the Lessor agrees to provide necessary documentation in obtaining such official permits.

8.Should the Lessor wish to sell the Said Premises, the Lessee shall have the first option to purchase from the Lessor for 10,000Baht (ten thousand Baht) or the option to find other party to purchase from the Lessor. Should the Lessee be unable to find such party to purchase from the Lessor the Lessor may sell Said Premises as he/she so wishes. The Said Premises shall not be sold or Title transferred during the Lease period. Debts accrued by the Lessor to outside parties shall not effect the lease terms.

9.Should Thai laws allow non-Thai citizens to purchase properties, the Lessor shall give the first right to purchase the Said Properties to the Lessee as a special condition for ______Baht (_________ Baht).

10. The terms and conditions of this Lease Agreement obligate the heirs of both parties to fulfill to the letter and shall not be altered without mutual consent.

11. The Lessee shall be responsible for paying Building Tax (Rong Ruen Tax) and Land Tax for the duration of the lease period.

12.On the day the Lease Agreement is made, the Lessee shall inspect the Said Premises including all the fixtures and fittings therein to be of good and tenantable condition and accepts lease responsibility henceforth.

13. Should the Lessor be unable to carry out the terms and conditions stated above the Lessee have the right to ask for five million baht and the special condition amount that the Lessee has prepaid.

14 In the event of the Lessee untimely death while the Lease Agreement is still in effect,the rights and obligations of the Lessor shall be transferred to________________________________________________adress________________________

______.

Both parties having read and fully understanding its contents,agree to comply with all the terms and conditions. Ttherefore both parties have hereunder affixed their signatures in presence of two witnesses on the date at the place first written above.

___________________The Lessor

___________________The Lessee

___________________Witness

___________________Witness

how old are you? will you still be around after 30 years? if so, you might want to check out a usufruct or "Sit thi gap gin ta lord shee vit" in thai, it's like a lifetime lease and you do not need to pay registration tax, just a small fee.

30 year lease extension will probably only work of you are still happily married and your spouse still owns the land.

LEASE AGREEMENT

AGREEMENT MADE AT_______________

DATE_____________

This Lease Agreement is between__________ hereafter known as the Lessor and

____________ hereafter known as the lessee.

It is hereby agreed as follows.

1. The Lessor agrees to lease and the Lessee agrees to rent land located at ______ in accordance to

Land Title Deed No. ______ Land Number ___________

Book number ____________ Page number _________

Tambon ___________ Total Land Size _____Sq Wah

hereinafter known as the "Said Premises" for a rent period of 30 years.

2. The Lessee agrees to a one time advance payment for the entire rent period in the amount of

________ Baht (_______________) to the Lessor on the date of this Agreement. The Lessor and

the Lessee agree to register the leasing terms and conditions at the District Land Office within 7

days after making this agreement. The rent begins on the date of registration at the District Land

Office.

3. Both parties agree that the Lessee shall have an option to renew this lease for an additional 30

years, for rental terms and conditions as mutually agreed by both parties.

4. After the date of this agreement the Lessee shall have the right to live in and conduct legal and

socially acceptable businesses in the Said Premises during the term of this Lease Agreement.

5. The Lessee agrees to take care of and to preserve the Said Premises as one would do to his/her

own and maintain the upkeep of and also attend to repairs of the Said Premises which may be

caused by accidental or intentional actions of the Lessee or the Lessee,s subordinates.

6. The Lessee may assign or sublet the Said Premises to other Parties. Should there be the need to

make official registration or other legal proceedings, the Lessor agrees to give consent and to assist

the Lessee in providing proper documentation and shall not ask for any returns from the Lessee.

The Lessee agrees to pay for any fee and other expenses that may arise from such proceedings.

7. The Lessee agrees not to damage or deface the Said Premises or make structural alterations or

additions thereto without the written consent in writing of the Lessor and all structural alterations

shall be in accordance with government and municipal guidelines. The Lessee agrees to pay any

costs involved while the Lessor agrees to provide necessary documentation in obtaining such official

permits.

8. Should the Lessor wish to sell the Said Premises, the Lessee shall have the first option to

purchase from the Lessor or the option to find another party to purchase from the Lessor. Should

the Lessee be unable to find such party to purchase from the Lessor the Lessor may sell Said

Premises as he/she so wishes. The Said Premises shall not be sold or Title transferred during the

Lease period. Debts accrued by the Lessor to outside parties shall not effect the lease terms.

9. Should Thai laws allow non-Thai citizens to purchase properties, the Lessor shall give the first

right to purchase the Said Properties to the Lessee as a special condition.

10. The terms and conditions of this Lease Agreement obligate the heirs of both parties to fulfill to

the letter and shall not be altered without mutual consent.

11. The Lessee shall be responsible for paying Building Tax (Rong Ruen Tax) and Land Tax for the

duration of the lease period.

12. Should the Lessor be unable to carry out the terms and conditions stated above the Lessee has

the right to ask for compensation five times the rent amount and the special condition amount that

the Lessee has prepaid.

13 In the event of the Lessee’s untimely death while the Lease Agreement is still in effect, the rights

and obligations of the Lessor shall be transferred to_________

Both parties having read and fully understanding its contents, agree to comply with all the terms

and conditions. Therefore both parties have hereunder affixed their signatures in presence of two

witnesses on the date at the place first written above.

___________________The Lessor

___________________The Lessee

___________________Witness

___________________

A lease is the obvious way to protect the foreign interest, but thge options most 'lawyers' forget is the Ufruct - this ve you a stronger right to the land than lease. Title VIII Civil and Commercial Code - Section Section 1417; 'An immovable property may be subjected to a usufruct by virtue of which the usufructuary is entitled to the possession, use and enjoyment of the property'. The Land Office will only register and accept this option if you have a Thai spouse. It is probably also better in the way of taxes! It will be for life, no limit, but you can't transfer or sell it, but you are allowed to lease/ sub-lease. There is lot to say about usefrruct but better go to a reliable Thai law firm.

My advice would be buy the property under your wife's name and lease it off her. Get your wife to make a will in favour of your child with the specific clause that she wishes you to be the manager of the property and have residence in the property until your child are 18 years of age.

If you want to have a real secure future for your child in the event your death (and you have the financial means to provide after your death), then do this by will and testiment from Farangland. Take a look at the "General Branch" there is advice there on wills.

With regards to leasehold

The lease should of course only include the land (not only for tax reasons) and the buildings should preferably be owned freehold by the lessee. If at the end of the 30 years the then lessee owns the building(s) which must be registered at the local land office, and should the then lessor refuse to renew the lease - then, in my opinion (it is still uncertain, what exactly would happen at the end of the 30-year lease term) the owner will most likely have (at his option) to pay to the lessee either the price of the building or the sum representing the increase of the land or he must allow the lessee to lease the whole or part of the land at the market price to the lessee. This based on the provisions of the Undue Enrichment Code (Title VI, Undue Enrichment Civil and Commercial Code) or in the alternative the 'Acquisition of Ownership' (Title II, Ownership, Chapter I 'Acquisition of ownership', Civil and Commercial Code). The lessee will not be left with nothing.

"The lessor agrees this loan is repayable in any case after 25 years, or within 30 days in the event of non compliance with any of the covenants of this lease, and that his or her heirs and assignees will also be bound by this repayment and these covenants and the lessor will make these heirs and assignees aware of these conditions"

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Edited April 21, 2006 by silk123