Can we get back to the original theme of this thread - which was a debate on thr niqab, as against the hijab?

I have no objection to the hijab, which covers the hair, thus protecting a muslim woman's modesty and compliance with their religious requirements, but I do have objections to anyone trying to hide their face in public, whether it be by niqab, burkha, ski-mask or hood. The medical mask one sees in times of flu epidemics is a borderline case - I wore one myself a couple of years ago, when I had pneumonia. But I was also reluctant to go out into the general population. I had a couple of days in bed, then a week at work before I felt it right to go shopping. Then I discarded the mask that weekend. I did not feel that it was right to walk around with my face hidden, even though it was for the protection of others.

Certainly in the UK a key part of the interview process for a teaching post is an observed lesson.

Which obviously happens in a 'free school'. Give the kids a free balloon and everyone is happy.

Luckily most free schools do their job a little better than the one in Derby....

And you can assert this because? This is the problem, who watches the watchers?

Certainly in the UK a key part of the interview process for a teaching post is an observed lesson.

Which obviously happens in a 'free school'. Give the kids a free balloon and everyone is happy.

What is your problem?

I'm fine mate and very much hope you are too.

If we can keep this civil we may be able to push slightly against the membrane of being off topic. This may be of interest to you.

And you can assert this because? This is the problem, who watches the watchers?

OFSTED - the organisation which is responsible for school inspections and the organisation which issued the rport on Al Madinah

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138776

From the BBC article on Al Madinah:

• Of England's 24 first free schools, three-quarters were rated good or outstanding by Ofsted
• Four - outstanding
• 14 - good
• Five - require improvement
• One - Discovery New School, West Sussex - inadequate"

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And you can assert this because? This is the problem, who watches the watchers?

OFSTED - the organisation which is responsible for school inspections and the organisation which issued the rport on Al Madinah http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138776 From the BBC article on Al Madinah:

• Of England's 24 first free schools, three-quarters were rated good or outstanding by Ofsted
• Four - outstanding
• 14 - good
• Five - require improvement
• One - Discovery New School, West Sussex - inadequate"

Thanks Sus, you beat me to it....

Also as belittled as the teaching profession is, most teachers only want to do as best as they can for their students. Exam results very quickly show up which teachers add value to use the latest buzz word.

The problem with being based in LOS is that many of the farang "teachers" you meet are not exactly there to further teaching and learning!

And you can assert this because? This is the problem, who watches the watchers?

OFSTED - the organisation which is responsible for school inspections and the organisation which issued the rport on Al Madinah

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138776

From the BBC article on Al Madinah:

• Of England's 24 first free schools, three-quarters were rated good or outstanding by Ofsted
• Four - outstanding
• 14 - good
• Five - require improvement
• One - Discovery New School, West Sussex - inadequate"

The very same Ofsted either ignored complaints until it hit the media leaving no other choice but to act or had no idea what was going on until it hit the media leaving no other choice but to act. Only 2 possible options and neither are good.

And you can assert this because? This is the problem, who watches the watchers?

OFSTED - the organisation which is responsible for school inspections and the organisation which issued the rport on Al Madinah

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138776

From the BBC article on Al Madinah:

• Of England's 24 first free schools, three-quarters were rated good or outstanding by Ofsted
• Four - outstanding
• 14 - good
• Five - require improvement
• One - Discovery New School, West Sussex - inadequate"

The very same Ofsted either ignored complaints until it hit the media leaving no other choice but to act or had no idea what was going on until it hit the media leaving no other choice but to act. Only 2 possible options and neither are good.

That's the same for any regulatory authority. What do you suggest they do? Have an inspector permanently in every school in the country?

Usually the regulatory authority's job is to inspect at regular intervals, and report what it sees. Dealing with complaints would be up to some other authority.

Usually the regulatory authority's job is to inspect at regular intervals, and report what it sees. Dealing with complaints would be up to some other authority.

Ofsted also deal with complaints and have the power to do immediate inspections and shut schools down.

And you can assert this because? This is the problem, who watches the watchers?

OFSTED - the organisation which is responsible for school inspections and the organisation which issued the rport on Al Madinah

http://www.ofsted.gov.uk/inspection-reports/find-inspection-report/provider/ELS/138776

From the BBC article on Al Madinah:

• Of England's 24 first free schools, three-quarters were rated good or outstanding by Ofsted
• Four - outstanding
• 14 - good
• Five - require improvement
• One - Discovery New School, West Sussex - inadequate"

The very same Ofsted either ignored complaints until it hit the media leaving no other choice but to act or had no idea what was going on until it hit the media leaving no other choice but to act. Only 2 possible options and neither are good.

That's the same for any regulatory authority. What do you suggest they do? Have an inspector permanently in every school in the country?

If that is what it takes then yes. Try as I may, I can't get my head around how people can treat the education of children with such torpor.

If that is what it takes then yes. Try as I may, I can't get my head around how people can treat the education of children with such torpor.

Are you going to pay for them then? If so what other government financed projects are you going to abandon?

If that is what it takes then yes. Try as I may, I can't get my head around how people can treat the education of children with such torpor.

Are you going to pay for them then? If so what other government financed projects are you going to abandon?

If there is no money to administer the project then don't have the project at all. If someone does not have the finances available to fuel and insure a car then don't buy a car.

I suggest removing church tax exempt status and pumping every last penny of the billions saved directly into the education system.

I live in an area with a significant Muslim population; mainly of Pakistan origin.

Up until two, maybe three years ago, apart from older women who were first generation immigrants, it was very unusual to see a Muslim woman wearing any head covering at all.

Now, whilst seeing a Muslim woman wearing a niqab, birka or chador is very rare here, many young (mid teens to early twenties) Muslim girls are wearing hijabs.

These are usually not just a simple head covering but very colourful and stylish.

When I asked a group of young girls why they had taken to wearing them, the reply was "Fashion, innit."

This may be of interest: From hijab to burqa - a guide to Muslim headwear.

If that is what it takes then yes. Try as I may, I can't get my head around how people can treat the education of children with such torpor.

Are you going to pay for them then? If so what other government financed projects are you going to abandon?

If there is no money to administer the project then don't have the project at all. If someone does not have the finances available to fuel and insure a car then don't buy a car.

I suggest removing church tax exempt status and pumping every last penny of the billions saved directly into the education system.

At the last school census there were 25,000 schools in England alone. Are you proposing that we put a full time inspector in each one?

I live in an area with a significant Muslim population; mainly of Pakistan origin.

Up until two, maybe three years ago, apart from older women who were first generation immigrants, it was very unusual to see a Muslim woman wearing any head covering at all.

Now, whilst seeing a Muslim woman wearing a niqab, birka or chador is very rare here, many young (mid teens to early twenties) Muslim girls are wearing hijabs.

These are usually not just a simple head covering but very colourful and stylish.

When I asked a group of young girls why they had taken to wearing them, the reply was "Fashion, innit."

This may be of interest: From hijab to burqa - a guide to Muslim headwear.

Dewsbury it's like Henry Ford said.

Well it looks like a majority of British citizens surveyed are bigots or Islamophobes, at least according to a recent opinion poll, 55% of those surveyed are in favour of similar legislation to that passed in France.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10402995/Most-Britons-want-full-face-veils-banned-in-all-public-places.html

We all know how reliable opinion poll results are.

Are you in favour of banning all face coverings in public?

Hoodies? Ski masks? Full face crash helmets? Party masks? Face painting?

They all hide the identity of the wearer just as much as a birka does.

We all know how reliable opinion poll results are.

Are you in favour of banning all face coverings in public?

Hoodies? Ski masks? Full face crash helmets? Party masks? Face painting?

They all hide the identity of the wearer just as much as a birka does.

And yes, I am in favour of banning all such items in public. What you do in your own house is your business, as are private parties held on private premises (or premises where entry is controlled).

I am also in favour of ID cards, or microchips implanted under the skin. The current political correctness has run riot, destroying the culture that I absorbed as a child and youth in days now far in our past. The present society is not one in which I wish to steep myself. I will remain an honourable gentleman, not descend to the levels exhibited by many of the current icons of society.

And I'm off to Vietnam to build a nice coal-fired power station tomorrow (or at least negotiate the contract, leaving others to build it).

If you are in favour of banning all face coverings in public places then I can have some sympathy for your views, even if I don't agree.

But banning just the birka and allowing all the others is pure discrimination and cannot be justified.

If you are in favour of banning all face coverings in public places then I can have some sympathy for your views, even if I don't agree.

But banning just the birka and allowing all the others is pure discrimination and cannot be justified.

I agree.

You will see that much earlier in this thread I was also attacking beards and moustaches (especially on women). With the amount of CCTV coverage in the UK, it makes sense to use the facial-recognition software available to monitor all street-crime and check on known evil-doers, whether common criminals or terrorists. Also persons of interest whose images are on file for legal reasons.

I did see that; but it is heading way too far into 1984 territory for my liking.

I do, though, have no objections to cctv monitoring of public places; despite recently being caught by one stopping on a Red Route to quickly use a cash machine!

If you are in favour of banning all face coverings in public places then I can have some sympathy for your views, even if I don't agree.

But banning just the birka and allowing all the others is pure discrimination and cannot be justified.

I also agree that a ban on face coverings should cover all, not just religious attire. There is one area that may be problematic, Chinese dragons, pantomime horses and costumes such as football mascots wear. I think in such cases an exemption would be wise, as long as persons so dressed reveal their faces on demand from anyone in authority. I don't think such requests would lead to running battles with the police, as recently happened in France when the police requested a woman wearing a burka uncover her face. I could be wrong but I can not recall anyone dressed in Chinese dragon or pantomime horse costumes robbing jewelers or post offices, but who knows.

If you are in favour of banning all face coverings in public places then I can have some sympathy for your views, even if I don't agree.

But banning just the birka and allowing all the others is pure discrimination and cannot be justified.

I agree.

You will see that much earlier in this thread I was also attacking beards and moustaches (especially on women).

If you are in favour of banning all face coverings in public places then I can have some sympathy for your views, even if I don't agree.

But banning just the birka and allowing all the others is pure discrimination and cannot be justified.

I also agree that a ban on face coverings should cover all, not just religious attire. There is one area that may be problematic, Chinese dragons, pantomime horses and costumes such as football mascots wear. I think in such cases an exemption would be wise, as long as persons so dressed reveal their faces on demand from anyone in authority. I don't think such requests would lead to running battles with the police, as recently happened in France when the police requested a woman wearing a burka uncover her face. I could be wrong but I can not recall anyone dressed in Chinese dragon or pantomime horse costumes robbing jewelers or post offices, but who knows.

Halloween masks?

I don't think anybody is likely to object to masks used in a performance or procession. I can't really imagine a policeman, even a very dim-witted one, stopping a lion dance to see who was performing it!

If you are in favour of banning all face coverings in public places then I can have some sympathy for your views, even if I don't agree.

But banning just the birka and allowing all the others is pure discrimination and cannot be justified.

I also agree that a ban on face coverings should cover all, not just religious attire. There is one area that may be problematic, Chinese dragons, pantomime horses and costumes such as football mascots wear. I think in such cases an exemption would be wise, as long as persons so dressed reveal their faces on demand from anyone in authority. I don't think such requests would lead to running battles with the police, as recently happened in France when the police requested a woman wearing a burka uncover her face. I could be wrong but I can not recall anyone dressed in Chinese dragon or pantomime horse costumes robbing jewelers or post offices, but who knows.

You miss the most contentious face covering issue of all, namely that of motorbike helmets. While obviously not an issue in LOS (what other function dies the scooter basket perform other than occasionally carrying a helmet?), this is a huge bone of contention in the UK. Some petrol stations refuse to serve helmeted bikers, others don't, some shops likewise.

There is no actual law requiring this but if a police officer requires you to assist them by removing something covering your face it would be advisable!

On the streets that's way more tricky. Would bikers need to remove their helmets whilst riding their bikes, or would it only apply to pedestrians? Skateboarder with full helmet?

Most sensible course would be to have a law allowing a business to refuse to serve customers with concealed faces on the grounds of ascertaining their age and on grounds of security.

Ironically birqas have been quite handy on many an occasion for security forces personnel travelling in vehicles

Whatever the regulation, there will always be a way round it. That means keeping it as specific as possible.... which in turn means offending some people.

The EDL, SWP and similar extremist groups would certainly be unhappy if face coverings were banned in public!

Their 'heroic' members often cover their faces when 'peacefully' demonstrating.

But to discuss only the Islamic veil is a breach of our racism laws and this 'Liberal Democrat' should be in jail.

Rubbish, Islam has followers from all races so to call for a debate on extremists clothing cannot be racist. The creeping Islamisation of the UK is certainly something that should be debated, too many heads stuck in the sand for too long. I believe the full burka is even banned in some Islamic countries.

But to discuss only the Islamic veil is a breach of our racism laws and this 'Liberal Democrat' should be in jail.

Rubbish, Islam has followers from all races so to call for a debate on extremists clothing cannot be racist. The creeping Islamisation of the UK is certainly something that should be debated, too many heads stuck in the sand for too long. I believe the full burka is even banned in some Islamic countries.

The irony...

I wonder how those who want to ban Muslim headscarves, veils and other 'extremist clothing' feel about Hasidic Jews.