To remember your class mates

However, in situations where a person is required to have their ID confirmed, such as entering the UK, then if wearing a birka, or any other face covering, it has to be removed.

Another example: a driving test candidate wearing a birka must remove it so the examiner can confirm that the person taking the test is the same as the person on the photo card licence presented.

Which negates some 3.5 billion people because it can only be carried out by another female. If you wish to disenfranchises around 50% of our entire species, you are my enemy.

However, in situations where a person is required to have their ID confirmed, such as entering the UK, then if wearing a birka, or any other face covering, it has to be removed.

Another example: a driving test candidate wearing a birka must remove it so the examiner can confirm that the person taking the test is the same as the person on the photo card licence presented.

Which negates some 3.5 billion people because it can only be carried out by another female. If you wish to disenfranchises around 50% of our entire species, you are my enemy.

I would suggest that almost everybody, if not your enemy, is not your friend.

I would suggest that almost everybody, if not your enemy, is not your friend.

Logic dictates that the above is entirely true.

However, in situations where a person is required to have their ID confirmed, such as entering the UK, then if wearing a birka, or any other face covering, it has to be removed.

Another example: a driving test candidate wearing a birka must remove it so the examiner can confirm that the person taking the test is the same as the person on the photo card licence presented.

Which negates some 3.5 billion people because it can only be carried out by another female. If you wish to disenfranchises around 50% of our entire species, you are my enemy.

You should check your facts before posting.

For example, the ID check is carried out for a driving test is done by the candidates actual examiner; regardless of whether that examiner is male or female.

If the candidate refuses to remove their birka in front of a male examiner, then they are told that the test cannot go ahead and they have forfeited the fee.

When booking the test it is not possible to ask for an examiner of a specific gender.

I am, of course, talking about the UK only; that is where my experience lies and the country this topic is about. Something you seem to have forgotten.

In private schools teachers do not have to have particular qualifications.

Malala Yousufzais recent book I am Malala will be banned completely due to its controversial contents in all private schools across the country, Pakistan Today has learnt.

[..]

Our academics have thoroughly studied her (Malalas) book and have concluded that reading that book will only confuse our children.

[..]

Interestingly, the private schools owners have taken the decision on their own while the government has nothing to do with the decision.

http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2013/11/07/news/national/i-am-malala-banned-in-private-schools/

What has a decision by private schools in Pakistan got to do with schools in the UK, whether public, private or state, let alone the issue of wearing birkas in the UK?

However, in situations where a person is required to have their ID confirmed, such as entering the UK, then if wearing a birka, or any other face covering, it has to be removed.

Another example: a driving test candidate wearing a birka must remove it so the examiner can confirm that the person taking the test is the same as the person on the photo card licence presented.

Which negates some 3.5 billion people because it can only be carried out by another female. If you wish to disenfranchises around 50% of our entire species, you are my enemy.

You should check your facts before posting.

For example, the ID check is carried out for a driving test is done by the candidates actual examiner; regardless of whether that examiner is male or female.

If the candidate refuses to remove their birka in front of a male examiner, then they are told that the test cannot go ahead and they have forfeited the fee.

When booking the test it is not possible to ask for an examiner of a specific gender.

I am, of course, talking about the UK only; that is where my experience lies and the country this topic is about. Something you seem to have forgotten.

I'm sorry, I fail to see your point as you tell me to check my facts then agree with me. I have also just noticed you an honorary which suggests I have a high chance of receiving a 'posting holiday' for not holding the same opinion.

You are saying that an ID check of a birka wearing woman can only be carried out by another female.

I am telling you that in the UK that is incorrect and giving you an example from my own professional experience.

How is that agreeing with you?

Feel free to disagree with me as much as you wish; as I will with you.

If people who did not hold the same opinion as I, or any other honorary member, were given posting holidays, there would be very few members able to post!

You are saying that an ID check of a birka wearing woman can only be carried out by another female.

That is not what I'm saying at all. A burka wearing woman who wishes not to be seen by anyone other than a woman cannot be ID'd a male. This disenfranchises 3.5 billion people (approx.)

Maybe you should read a bit more Voltaire; you may learn something.

But then if you had ever read any, or knew anything about the man you would have known the 'quote' you made, trying to be clever, was a fake.

You are saying that an ID check of a birka wearing woman can only be carried out by another female.

That is not what I'm saying at all. A burka wearing woman who wishes not to be seen by anyone other than a woman cannot be ID'd a male. This disenfranchises 3.5 billion people (approx.)

So, are you saying that if, for example, a birka wearing woman taking her driving test in the UK who does not wish to remove her birka to be ID'd by a male examiner is in some way discriminated against?

If so, it is by her choice.

Are you also saying that birka wearing women in such circumstances should be allowed to insist upon being ID'd only by a woman?

No birkas full stop outside of the home is what i say. These people bleat on about human rights and freedom but we see nothing of the sort in Islamic countries. These would be birka wearers where ever they want are just taking the piss, hiding behind the religion/culture card to propagate the extension of sharia oppression and Islamic injustice in the UK. Lets be honest here birka wearing is just putting two fingers up to the host nation, Islam demands respect but never gives any in return. They are very fond of demanding their rights but never give an inch the other way, how many Churches are there in Saudi Arabia?

No birkas full stop outside of the home is what i say. These people bleat on about human rights and freedom but we see nothing of the sort in Islamic countries. These would be birka wearers where ever they want are just taking the piss, hiding behind the religion/culture card to propagate the extension of sharia oppression and Islamic injustice in the UK. Lets be honest here birka wearing is just putting two fingers up to the host nation, Islam demands respect but never gives any in return. They are very fond of demanding their rights but never give an inch the other way, how many Churches are there in Saudi Arabia?

Ataturk had it right banning the wretched things, and that's with a population consisting overwhelmingly of Muslims. He was a bit of an Islamophobe though.

Ataturk was a secularist and wanted to separate religion and state.

His doctrine did not specifically ban the birka; indeed, the birka was not widely worn in Turkey; if at all.

He wanted to separate religion and state, so his government banned the wearing of any religious attire by government employees and others working in the public sector. This, later got extended to cover university students and similar.

All this, of course, included the wearing of headscarves by Muslim women.

Official photos, such as on passports, must also show the head uncovered.

Other than that, women in Turkey are allowed to wear what they want, and this includes headscarves and if they wished; a birka.

All of which does seem somewhat strange coming from a man who, although widely believed to be an atheist or at least agnostic, did publicly proclaim his support for religious freedom and freedom of expression!

Deleted: duplicate

I know the original proposal was for banning the burka, but why does everybody follow this so slavishly? There have been several sensible proposals on this thread, many of which have realised that banning the burka alone would cause claims of discrimination against Muslims.

Much more sensible would be a ban on ALL face coverings in public, with the exception of crash helmets for safety reasons. There will probably be other exceptions, but the point is there..... don't discriminate against anyone on grounds which can be claimed to be religious.

And let them get frostbitten noses in the English winter.... serve them right for immigrating to our stupid climate!

You are saying that an ID check of a birka wearing woman can only be carried out by another female.

That is not what I'm saying at all. A burka wearing woman who wishes not to be seen by anyone other than a woman cannot be ID'd a male. This disenfranchises 3.5 billion people (approx.)

So, are you saying that if, for example, a birka wearing woman taking her driving test in the UK who does not wish to remove her birka to be ID'd by a male examiner is in some way discriminated against?

If so, it is by her choice.

Are you also saying that birka wearing women in such circumstances should be allowed to insist upon being ID'd only by a woman?

The male examiner is discriminated against on the basis of sex.

I know the original proposal was for banning the burka, but why does everybody follow this so slavishly?

It is the lifting of a ban IB. People will no longer be able to claim that cannot show their face because it is banned or not allowed. Are the women in Iran for example banned from not covering their head or not banned from covering their head? Please don't say it amounts to the same thing old mate.

You are saying that an ID check of a birka wearing woman can only be carried out by another female.

That is not what I'm saying at all. A burka wearing woman who wishes not to be seen by anyone other than a woman cannot be ID'd a male. This disenfranchises 3.5 billion people (approx.)

So, are you saying that if, for example, a birka wearing woman taking her driving test in the UK who does not wish to remove her birka to be ID'd by a male examiner is in some way discriminated against?

If so, it is by her choice.

Are you also saying that birka wearing women in such circumstances should be allowed to insist upon being ID'd only by a woman?

The male examiner is discriminated against on the basis of sex.

How so?

The examiner's sex is irrelevant; male or female it is they who carry out the ID check.

If the birka wearing candidate does not wish to show her face to a male examiner and so forfeits her test, that's her loss.

The examiner will be quite happy to sit in the office with his feet up and a cup of tea!

How so?

Wow. If it is not clear now then I don't think I will ever make it to be so. Sorry.

I know the original proposal was for banning the burka, but why does everybody follow this so slavishly?

It is the lifting of a ban IB. People will no longer be able to claim that cannot show their face because it is banned or not allowed. Are the women in Iran for example banned from not covering their head or not banned from covering their head? Please don't say it amounts to the same thing old mate.

No, it is not the lifting of a ban, notmyself. The requirement for women to wear the burka is imposed by Islamic authorities, and the British Government is not in a position to alter Islamic requirements. The ban is not a British ban, so the British cannot lift it.

The British Government is concerned only with British law, not Islamic law. Our intention would be to enhance security by ensuring that people can be recognised at all times (e.g. by CCTV cameras); it really has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

The requirement for women to wear the burka is imposed by Islamic authorities, and the British Government is not in a position to alter Islamic requirements. The ban is not a British ban, so the British cannot lift it.

Quite how you would marry up that piece of logic with marrying children being banned as well as other issues such as death for apostasy is beyond me.

Our intention would be to enhance security by ensuring that people can be recognised at all times (e.g. by CCTV cameras); it really has nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

I'm 100% behind that. I wonder which section of society would be most vocal against it and on what basis?

Quite how you would marry up that piece of logic with marrying children being banned as well as other issues such as death for apostasy is beyond me.

Sometimes, notmyself, you get so bitter and twisted about religion that you miss the most obvious things.

Marrying children, wearing the burka, and death for apostasy are tenets of some Muslim legal systems. They are in this sense nothing to do with British law.

British law bans the marrying of children and does not mandate death for apostasy for its own reasons, not to counter Islam. The British legislature can decide whether to ban the burka without having to refer to some ayatollah.

How so?

Wow. If it is not clear now then I don't think I will ever make it to be so. Sorry.

Don't have an answer, then.