US government shuts down as Congress misses deadline

[boomerangutang]

Well, it was inevitable.

Fitch puts US AAA rating on rating watch negative

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101093033

A rating downgrade will result in a rate increase for the US to borrow. Watch bond rates jump on this news. The Interest Rate CDS market will crater if the rate on 10-year Treasuries goes over 4.00%. If this happens, woe be unto all of us.

Should have been downgraded 30 years ago, and further downgraded since. Plus, how can we trust Fitch or Standard and Poor or the other posers who get paid to play the ratings game? I would sooner trust an 11 year old computer whiz kid - than any of those stuffed suits.

Don't forget, it was the same rating cartel which kept credit swaps and all the Wall St. scams rated AAA when in fact, at the time, the bottom had fallen out - just prior to September 2008. Later, when the suits were called on the congressional carpet to explain their blatant mistakes, the best excuse they could come up with was; "it's just personal opinion."

[MaxYakov]

The ACA ,which is the entire reason for the shutdown, was HUGE in last years election and the people spoke did they not?

Cruz seems to want another election because he feels that the American people were wrong in their choice... Or sour grapes perhaps?

I took the liberty (pains) of transcribing your YouTube submission of Senator Cruz's speech:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"You know, when the fight for Obamacare started, Senator Mike Lee and I began by pitching this in Washington. And it was abundantly clear that this was not a strategy that Washington was going to embrace.

We went over their heads to the American people. For much of the months of August and September Mike Lee and I traveled this country speaking to town halls all over the country. We went and made the case to the American people, launched a national webite don'tfundobamacare dot com.

Don't Fund Obamacare Link (my gratuitous embellishment)

In a matter of just a few weeks two million Americans signed that petition on dontfundobamacare dot com. It is because of you that the House of Representatives has been standing strong because the House has been listening to the people. Repeatedly, the House has acted to compromise, to fund vital priorities. And repeatedly President Obama and the Democrates have refused to negotiate.

In my view, the House of Representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing which is to keep standing strong.And that is the model for every other fight. We need no more Washington solutions. We need to go back to the American people."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Where was any reference in his speech to a Presidential election? I must have missed it. Does anyone else see it?

But, since you brought it up, let's take a look at both the 2010 and 2012 US elections and how the people spoke (Links and References have been removed, emphasis is mine):

US Elections, 2010 Wink Link

Approximately 82.5 million people voted. The Democratic Party suffered massive defeats in many national and state level elections, with many seats switching to Republican Party control. The Republican Party gained 63 seats in the U.S. House of Representatives, recapturing the majority, and making it the largest seat change since 1948 and the largest for any midterm election since the 1938 midterm elections. The Republicans gained six seats in the U.S. Senate, expanding its minority, and also gained 680 seats in state legislative races to break the previous majority record of 628 set by Democrats in the post-Watergate elections of 1974. This left Republicans in control of 25 state legislatures, compared to the 15 still controlled by Democrats. After the election, Republicans took control of 29 of the 50 State Governorships .

US Elections, 2012 Wiki Link

Little overall change occurred on the Federal level. Incumbent President Barack Obama was elected to a second term, with the national popular vote percentage being 51.1% to 47.2%, and the Electoral College vote being 332 to 206, for Obama and challenger Mitt Romney, respectively. The Democratic Pary held control of the Senate and the Republican Party maintained a majority in the House of Representatives. Republicans also held on to a majority of governorships.

[bigbamboo]

BTW. It was me who introduced JFK and MLK into this thread in the naive attempt to demonstrate that unity behind a leader is a good thing for the US.

Little did I expect such perversion and cynicism from the posters here.

Unity behind a leader is so 1984.

And so Thailand.

[samran]

"You know, when the fight for Obamacare started, Senator Mike Lee and I began by pitching this in Washington. And it was abundantly clear that this was not a strategy that Washington was going to embrace.

We went over their heads to the American people. For much of the months of August and September Mike Lee and I traveled this country speaking to town halls all over the country. We went and made the case to the American people, launched a national webite don'tfundobamacare dot com.

Don't Fund Obamacare Link (my gratuitous embellishment)

In a matter of just a few weeks two million Americans signed that petition on dontfundobamacare dot com. It is because of you that the House of Representatives has been standing strong because the House has been listening to the people. Repeatedly, the House has acted to compromise, to fund vital priorities. And repeatedly President Obama and the Democrates have refused to negotiate.

In my view, the House of Representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing which is to keep standing strong.And that is the model for every other fight. We need no more Washington solutions. We need to go back to the American people."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that is the problem is it. You blokes don't believe that funding the health coverage of people who have never had it as a 'vital priority'.

Medicare - a form of socialised medicine for yourselves - yep, fund that.

Social security for yourselves - yep why not.

But health insurance for the first time for someone who has never had it or can't afford it - well, don't be silly....

[Scott]

Off-topic post removed. Please stay on topic.

[SinglePot]

BTW. It was me who introduced JFK and MLK into this thread in the naive attempt to demonstrate that unity behind a leader is a good thing for the US.

Little did I expect such perversion and cynicism from the posters here.

Unity behind a leader is so 1984.

And so Thailand.

Yes Sir!

US National Anthem on national TV, 8am and 6pm daily.

Imagine NY Grand Central Station stood, 8am on a Monday morning.

MoChit. Have a nice day.

[Publicus]

People who speak of Prez Obama as a king are talking phony baloney.

Prez Obama was elected and reelected. He does put his pants on one leg at a time.

Tea party Republicans put their pants on over their heads. The tea party Republicans are upside down, inside out, backwards.

75% of Americans blame the Republicans in Washington for everything wrong going on in Washington, everything presently wrong with the country.

Speaker Boehner needs immediately to put a clean CR on the House floor for a straight up or down vote, and he needs to do the same with the debt ceiling resolution.

Let the members of the House vote. Speaker Boehner hasn't allowed a vote in the House of Representatives during the entire two weeks of the government shutdown.

Is John Boehner the Speaker of the House or is He the Dictator of the United States Government?

Has Speaker Boehner now turned against democracy, against allowing members of the House to vote on the pressing and immediate issues that confront the United States?

Will John Boehner ever again allow the House of Representatives to vote on any issue that now confronts and threatens the well being of the country and of all Americans in all parts of the country?

When I think of Speaker John Boehner and the Republicans in the House, I think of a similar time in the British parliament:

[MaxYakov]

"You know, when the fight for Obamacare started, Senator Mike Lee and I began by pitching this in Washington. And it was abundantly clear that this was not a strategy that Washington was going to embrace.

We went over their heads to the American people. For much of the months of August and September Mike Lee and I traveled this country speaking to town halls all over the country. We went and made the case to the American people, launched a national webite don'tfundobamacare dot com.

Don't Fund Obamacare Link (my gratuitous embellishment)

In a matter of just a few weeks two million Americans signed that petition on dontfundobamacare dot com. It is because of you that the House of Representatives has been standing strong because the House has been listening to the people. Repeatedly, the House has acted to compromise, to fund vital priorities. And repeatedly President Obama and the Democrates have refused to negotiate.

In my view, the House of Representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing which is to keep standing strong.And that is the model for every other fight. We need no more Washington solutions. We need to go back to the American people."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that is the problem is it. You blokes don't believe that funding the health coverage of people who have never had it as a 'vital priority'.

Medicare - a form of socialised medicine for yourselves - yep, fund that.

Social security for yourselves - yep why not.

But health insurance for the first time for someone who has never had it or can't afford it - well, don't be silly....

You have omitted Medicaid out of ignorance or for some other reason:

Medicaid is the United States health program for families and individuals with low income and resources. The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a "government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care." America's Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232). Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the United States. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments and managed by the states

The ACA de-funding effort by the House of Representatives is, AFAIC, meant to either delay the individual mandate or to stop its implementation (temporarily, at least). Also, AFAIC, any law that is as voluminous and obfuscated, passed by a very narrow margin (probably unread by the legislators) and apparently having a negative impact on both employment and insurance premium rates and in a few other areas and it should be stopped. But, hey, maybe that's just me (but it doesn't look like it).

Additionally, there are a lot of economic/tax ramifications with it, one of which (medical devices tax) was even referred to as "stupid" (Here) by the the Senate Democratic majority leader, Harry Reid. Yeah, sure. Probably a Freudian slip, yes?

It's a very complex law with, AFAIC, plenty of potential, unpredictable, unintended consequences. Maybe you would like to peruse it?:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO

Edited October 16, 2013 by MaxYakov

[Publicus]

"You know, when the fight for Obamacare started, Senator Mike Lee and I began by pitching this in Washington. And it was abundantly clear that this was not a strategy that Washington was going to embrace.

We went over their heads to the American people. For much of the months of August and September Mike Lee and I traveled this country speaking to town halls all over the country. We went and made the case to the American people, launched a national webite don'tfundobamacare dot com.

Don't Fund Obamacare Link (my gratuitous embellishment)

In a matter of just a few weeks two million Americans signed that petition on dontfundobamacare dot com. It is because of you that the House of Representatives has been standing strong because the House has been listening to the people. Repeatedly, the House has acted to compromise, to fund vital priorities. And repeatedly President Obama and the Democrates have refused to negotiate.

In my view, the House of Representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing which is to keep standing strong.And that is the model for every other fight. We need no more Washington solutions. We need to go back to the American people."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that is the problem is it. You blokes don't believe that funding the health coverage of people who have never had it as a 'vital priority'.

Medicare - a form of socialised medicine for yourselves - yep, fund that.

Social security for yourselves - yep why not.

But health insurance for the first time for someone who has never had it or can't afford it - well, don't be silly....

You have omitted Medicaid out of ignorance or for some other reason:

Medicaid is the United States health program for families and individuals with low income and resources. The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a "government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care." America's Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232). Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the United States. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments and managed by the states

The ACA de-funding effort by the House of Representatives is, AFAIC, meant to either delay the individual mandate or to stop its implementation (temporarily, at least). Also, AFAIC, any law that is as voluminous and obfuscated, passed by a very narrow margin (probably unread by the legislators) and apparently having a negative impact on both employment and insurance premium rates and in a few other areas and it should be stopped. But, hey, maybe that's just me (but it doesn't look like it).

Additionally, there are a lot of economic/tax ramifications with it, one of which (medical devices tax) was even referred to as "stupid" (Here) by the the Senate Democratic majority leader, Harry Reid. Yeah, sure. Probably a Freudian slip, yes?

It's a very complex law with, AFAIC, plenty of potential, unpredictable, unintended consequences. Maybe you would like to peruse it?:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO

You're blathering on about the long train of possible horrors, which is an old tactic of those who haven't any present argument and whose only tricks are to talk about the perceived, invented and concocted possible horrors that could happen at some point in the future but regarding which there is no evidence, no indication, no likelihood, and certainly nothing concrete; no proof.

It's like reading the Mayan calendar or dragging out Nostradamus or reading the Book of Revelations then running around like a chicken with its head cut off.

We have a lot of mooners and time travelers here constantly emerging from their secret transport pods.

It's past time to hang up the space travel outfit.

[samran]

"You know, when the fight for Obamacare started, Senator Mike Lee and I began by pitching this in Washington. And it was abundantly clear that this was not a strategy that Washington was going to embrace.

We went over their heads to the American people. For much of the months of August and September Mike Lee and I traveled this country speaking to town halls all over the country. We went and made the case to the American people, launched a national webite don'tfundobamacare dot com.

Don't Fund Obamacare Link (my gratuitous embellishment)

In a matter of just a few weeks two million Americans signed that petition on dontfundobamacare dot com. It is because of you that the House of Representatives has been standing strong because the House has been listening to the people. Repeatedly, the House has acted to compromise, to fund vital priorities. And repeatedly President Obama and the Democrates have refused to negotiate.

In my view, the House of Representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing which is to keep standing strong.And that is the model for every other fight. We need no more Washington solutions. We need to go back to the American people."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that is the problem is it. You blokes don't believe that funding the health coverage of people who have never had it as a 'vital priority'.

Medicare - a form of socialised medicine for yourselves - yep, fund that.

Social security for yourselves - yep why not.

But health insurance for the first time for someone who has never had it or can't afford it - well, don't be silly....

You have omitted Medicaid out of ignorance or for some other reason:

Medicaid is the United States health program for families and individuals with low income and resources. The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a "government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care." America's Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232). Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the United States. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments and managed by the states

The ACA de-funding effort by the House of Representatives is, AFAIC, meant to either delay the individual mandate or to stop its implementation (temporarily, at least). Also, AFAIC, any law that is as voluminous and obfuscated, passed by a very narrow margin (probably unread by the legislators) and apparently having a negative impact on both employment and insurance premium rates and in a few other areas and it should be stopped. But, hey, maybe that's just me (but it doesn't look like it).

Additionally, there are a lot of economic/tax ramifications with it, one of which (medical devices tax) was even referred to as "stupid" (Here) by the the Senate Democratic majority leader, Harry Reid. Yeah, sure. Probably a Freudian slip, yes?

It's a very complex law with, AFAIC, plenty of potential, unpredictable, unintended consequences. Maybe you would like to peruse it?:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO

Ah yes, Medicade. Doing such a good job that it leaves 50 odd million of you uninsured. Yep, great system where you have to be so dirt poor and near bankrupt before you can go near it.

As for Obamacare - it is an excellent step towards where you need to be. But given the bloodymindedness of your side of politics, and they hysteria that it loves to create anytime a single payer scheme is proposed, that this is all your good congress could manage. Better than nothing, a long way to go..

It all could have been so simple, had you let it...

and here is a US view of it, though probably not ghengis khan enough for you:

[SinglePot]

The same question applies all over the civilised world:

'Are you prepared to pay money for someone else to get medical treatment?'

Yes, No, or Partially.

Same with education.

'If the shop makes plenty of money, everybody can buy whatever they want.' Thatcherism.

Good Luck America. There is no cure.

[samran]

The same question applies all over the civilised world:

'Are you prepared to pay money for someone else to get medical treatment?'

Yes, No, or Partially.

Same with education.

'If the shop makes plenty of money, everybody can buy whatever they want.' Thatcherism.

Good Luck America. There is no cure.

Taking it one step further: "Do you want to live in a country where your ability to access health care is based on need, and not ability to pay"

[SinglePot]

How did Native Americans used to do it?

[Jingthing]

Who to blame? The republicans!

There is no serious argument for Republican governance right now, even if you prefer conservative policies over liberal ones. These people are just too dangerously incompetent to be trusted with power.

A party that is this bad at tactics can't be expected to be any good at policy-making.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/house-republicans-show-themselves-to-be-dangerously-incompetent-again-2013-10#ixzz2hrwQ0W25

[MaxYakov]

"You know, when the fight for Obamacare started, Senator Mike Lee and I began by pitching this in Washington. And it was abundantly clear that this was not a strategy that Washington was going to embrace.

We went over their heads to the American people. For much of the months of August and September Mike Lee and I traveled this country speaking to town halls all over the country. We went and made the case to the American people, launched a national webite don'tfundobamacare dot com.

Don't Fund Obamacare Link (my gratuitous embellishment)

In a matter of just a few weeks two million Americans signed that petition on dontfundobamacare dot com. It is because of you that the House of Representatives has been standing strong because the House has been listening to the people. Repeatedly, the House has acted to compromise, to fund vital priorities. And repeatedly President Obama and the Democrates have refused to negotiate.

In my view, the House of Representatives needs to keep doing what it's been doing which is to keep standing strong.And that is the model for every other fight. We need no more Washington solutions. We need to go back to the American people."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And that is the problem is it. You blokes don't believe that funding the health coverage of people who have never had it as a 'vital priority'.

Medicare - a form of socialised medicine for yourselves - yep, fund that.

Social security for yourselves - yep why not.

But health insurance for the first time for someone who has never had it or can't afford it - well, don't be silly....

You have omitted Medicaid out of ignorance or for some other reason:

Medicaid is the United States health program for families and individuals with low income and resources. The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a "government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care." America's Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232). Medicaid is the largest source of funding for medical and health-related services for people with low income in the United States. It is a means-tested program that is jointly funded by the state and federal governments and managed by the states

The ACA de-funding effort by the House of Representatives is, AFAIC, meant to either delay the individual mandate or to stop its implementation (temporarily, at least). Also, AFAIC, any law that is as voluminous and obfuscated, passed by a very narrow margin (probably unread by the legislators) and apparently having a negative impact on both employment and insurance premium rates and in a few other areas and it should be stopped. But, hey, maybe that's just me (but it doesn't look like it).

Additionally, there are a lot of economic/tax ramifications with it, one of which (medical devices tax) was even referred to as "stupid" (Here) by the the Senate Democratic majority leader, Harry Reid. Yeah, sure. Probably a Freudian slip, yes?

It's a very complex law with, AFAIC, plenty of potential, unpredictable, unintended consequences. Maybe you would like to peruse it?:

Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO

Ah yes, Medicade. Doing such a good job that it leaves 50 odd million of you uninsured. Yep, great system where you have to be so dirt poor and near bankrupt before you can go near it.

As for Obamacare - it is an excellent step towards where you need to be. But given the bloodymindedness of your side of politics, and they hysteria that it loves to create anytime a single payer scheme is proposed, that this is all your good congress could manage. Better than nothing, a long way to go..

It all could have been so simple, had you let it...

< snipped YouTube link for brevity >

and here is a US view of it, though probably not ghengis khan enough for you:

< snipped YouTube link for brefity >

1) You keep referring to "you" or "your". I have had absolutely nothing to do with any selection of any US political representatives nor have I ever donated to a political cause nor supported one in any way. To me this a study in power politics, propaganda, deception, obsession and a host of other morbidly interesting things.

2) If there was something wrong with Medicaid why wasn't it fixed rather than enact more law? Rhetorical question - I don't think you are capable of objectlvly answering.

3) This thread is about Health Care and Insurance in the US, not Australia. A lot of posts are being deleted for being off-topic. Genghis Kahn enough or not (WTH is that supposed to mean?), I did watch the second video and noticed that "private insurance" was being used in parallel with the "government insurance" for elective surgery and to bypass the public insurance waiting queues. Also, it stated that, from a poll, 24% of Australians that that the system worked "pretty well". It didn't say what the responses were for the other 76%. That should set off alarms.

4) So can I take it you have read Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO (and the thousands of pages of associated regulations) and are a sufficient expert to be able to say: "an excellent step towards where you need to be"?

[Publicus]

How did Native Americans used to do it?

They went to Canada.

[butterlimbo]

The same question applies all over the civilised world:

'Are you prepared to pay money for someone else to get medical treatment?'

Yes, No, or Partially.

Same with education.

'If the shop makes plenty of money, everybody can buy whatever they want.' Thatcherism.

Good Luck America. There is no cure.

Taking it one step further: "Do you want to live in a country where your ability to access health care is based on need, and not ability to pay"

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_each_according_to_his_ability,_to_each_according_to_his_need

[Scott]

Off-topic post deleted. Other posts should be deleted, but I will let them stand.

Stay on the topic, please.

[samran]

1) You keep referring to "you" or "your". I have had absolutely nothing to do with any selection of any US political representatives nor have I ever donated to a political cause nor supported one in any way. To me this a study in power politics, propaganda, deception, obsession and a host of other morbidly interesting things.

2) If there was something wrong with Medicaid why wasn't it fixed rather than enact more law? Rhetorical question - I don't think you are capable of objectlvly answering.

3) This thread is about Health Care and Insurance in the US, not Australia. A lot of posts are being deleted for being off-topic. Genghis Kahn enough or not (WTH is that supposed to mean?), I did watch the second video and noticed that "private insurance" was being used in parallel with the "government insurance" for elective surgery and to bypass the public insurance waiting queues. Also, it stated that, from a poll, 24% of Australians that that the system worked "pretty well". It didn't say what the responses were for the other 76%. That should set off alarms.

4) So can I take it you have read Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO (and the thousands of pages of associated regulations) and are a sufficient expert to be able to say: "an excellent step towards where you need to be"?

1) Agree to the second sentence.

2) Objectivity. Lets see. Learning from what every other OECD country does is not being objective? The only lack of objectivity here is the denialism which goes on towards this issue in the US hard right.

The only way to fix medicaid is to build a bridge between it and the US medicare. ie..cover everyone in between. Obamacare has tried to expand Medicade, but guess which governors are refusing to do so? Youo guessed it, the red ones.

3) Ghengis Khan, famous notable extreme right winger from the past. Common political parlance to someone who is an extremist is to say "to the right of Ghengis Khan'. Seems like it was over your head.

As for Australia, well, in many respects, it is the closest country to the US in many ways. Yes, there is a parallel system, and it works. You still have choice, you can go public or private (though most, if not all, of the serious treatment is done publically, having spent the past three years in the midst of it - we had private insurance but it was rarely needed given the public system in most cases was the way to go). Medicare in Australia covers all your body except your mouth - dental is predominatly private.

None of this socialist nirvana crap touted by the right. Simply a system with a healthy safety net and then some sugar on top from the private sector in case you want some acupuncture with your conventional therapy. - Yes America, there is another way!

Yes, I noted the 24% figure and found that strange. Try taking the abolition of Medicare to an election and see how far that gets you. Even the conservatives in Australia are flying the white flag on that one. It has only taken them 30 years after being out of power for more than half of it.

4) No, I haven't read it. Skimmed it.

I guess you've read it though, and are prepared to read out all its faults.

As I said before, not perfect, far from, but a step in the right direction.

[Baloo22]

1) You keep referring to "you" or "your". I have had absolutely nothing to do with any selection of any US political representatives nor have I ever donated to a political cause nor supported one in any way. To me this a study in power politics, propaganda, deception, obsession and a host of other morbidly interesting things.

2) If there was something wrong with Medicaid why wasn't it fixed rather than enact more law? Rhetorical question - I don't think you are capable of objectlvly answering.

3) This thread is about Health Care and Insurance in the US, not Australia. A lot of posts are being deleted for being off-topic. Genghis Kahn enough or not (WTH is that supposed to mean?), I did watch the second video and noticed that "private insurance" was being used in parallel with the "government insurance" for elective surgery and to bypass the public insurance waiting queues. Also, it stated that, from a poll, 24% of Australians that that the system worked "pretty well". It didn't say what the responses were for the other 76%. That should set off alarms.

4) So can I take it you have read Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act - HR 3590 - GPO (and the thousands of pages of associated regulations) and are a sufficient expert to be able to say: "an excellent step towards where you need to be"?

1) Agree to the second sentence.

2) Objectivity. Lets see. Learning from what every other OECD country does is not being objective? The only lack of objectivity here is the denialism which goes on towards this issue in the US hard right.

The only way to fix medicaid is to build a bridge between it and the US medicare. ie..cover everyone in between. Obamacare has tried to expand Medicade, but guess which governors are refusing to do so? Youo guessed it, the red ones.

3) Ghengis Khan, famous notable extreme right winger from the past. Common political parlance to someone who is an extremist is to say "to the right of Ghengis Khan'. Seems like it was over your head.

As for Australia, well, in many respects, it is the closest country to the US in many ways. Yes, there is a parallel system, and it works. You still have choice, you can go public or private (though most, if not all, of the serious treatment is done publically, having spent the past three years in the midst of it - we had private insurance but it was rarely needed given the public system in most cases was the way to go). Medicare in Australia covers all your body except your mouth - dental is predominatly private.

None of this socialist nirvana crap touted by the right. Simply a system with a healthy safety net and then some sugar on top from the private sector in case you want some acupuncture with your conventional therapy. - Yes America, there is another way!

Yes, I noted the 24% figure and found that strange. Try taking the abolition of Medicare to an election and see how far that gets you. Even the conservatives in Australia are flying the white flag on that one. It has only taken them 30 years after being out of power for more than half of it.

4) No, I haven't read it. Skimmed it.

I guess you've read it though, and are prepared to read out all its faults.

As I said before, not perfect, far from, but a step in the right direction.

Those who object to ObamacCare (Affordable Care Act) are not in any "denialism' of any sort. What most are against is the federal jackboot being held against their throat (via the IRS) forcing them to buy a specified health insurance plan according to the wishes of the Obama regime. As many are now finding out, the "Obama Plans" are much more expensive than they want, need, or now have.

You mention some State governors objecting to efforts to "expand" Medicaid. Well, guess who the federales are expecting to cough up additional funds? Many non-Americans have not kept up with past events at all. Seems like you are one of them.

Unfunded federal mandates have been a long-standing beef the States have had with the Federal government for a long time. Our Federal government, under both political parties, likes to pass various mandates and diktats without the funding to pay for them and expect the States to ante up the cash.

[Scott]

Further off-topic posts are going to be deleted. Federally mandated programs have been around long, long before Obama.

Stay on topic or suspensions will be forthcoming.

[F430murci]

The same question applies all over the civilised world:

'Are you prepared to pay money for someone else to get medical treatment?'

We do now. It's imbedded in current health care costs and in our current insurance system.

[F430murci]

How did Native Americans used to do it?

Peace pipe and firewater?

[Exsexyman]

An interesting article today from Mark Mardell, North American correspondent for the BBC. He is a very experienced and respected journalist, and certainly has no axe to grind. This whole charade appears to be going from bad to worse, a complete 'dogs breakfast'. This must surely be very damaging for the image and reputation of The USA worldwide. Surely the electorate there are entitled to expect better from the politicians they voted into office. Quite frankly their behaviour and grandstanding is increasingly starting to resemble spoiled children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24545697

[Credo]

Spoiled children seldom cause anywhere near as much damage as these adults are doing. Yes, the damage is much deeper and more severe than a lot of people think.

[SinglePot]

The same question applies all over the civilised world:

'Are you prepared to pay money for someone else to get medical treatment?'

We do now. It's imbedded in current health care costs and in our current insurance system.

Understood F430murci.

Similar in UK but a bit different. We have National Health Service (free treatment for all in NHS hospitals, clinics etc) paid for through income related tax. More you earn, more you pay.

Health insurance schemes in the UK are private arrangements made by individuals to purchase private health care services (outside of the NHS system). But people doing this still have to pay into the NHS system.

So you basically have public health, and private health separated.

NHS started in 1948 in the UK. Constantly under review by successive governments.

The issue of one man paying for another's treatment is a perennial problem.

How best to administer the system.

Big issue is the changing population. Influx of low paid, or unemployed people from other countries for example stretches it.

Uk people accept the concept pretty much. Complete privatisation of the health service has never been a viable option although some governments have pushed for a greatly reduced public health system.

Hope relevant. Tricky problem for the US.

[Johpa]

How did Native Americans used to do it?

I believe they collectively supported their "medicine men" and shamans, specialists who were not expected to hunt or forage. And if I recall correctly, the Iroquois Nations was a major influence on the revolutionary democracy movement in America, if not the major model for the emerging government. People tend to forget just how revolutionary were the ideas of the likes of Thomas Paine. So revolutionary that the US public schools still shy away from delving into the beliefs of the founding fathers of America as most were adherents of some socialist ideas, not to mention being members of a true Christian heretic belief, Deism. The irony is that today, the tea party advocates, who are the major critics of the ACA and Obama (well they hate Obama because he is Black and not really regarding policy as the ACA is a Republican plan), like to fly the Gadsen Flag which was a flag flown by what today would be the progressive left-of-center that favors corporate regulation, national healthcare, progressive taxation, and estate taxes. Alas, the progressive movement is far to busy being smug and attending Yoga classes to read their history and take back their flag from the imposters on the right.

[chuckd]

Some food for thought.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Government default? It’s already happened, twice

12:07 AM 10/16/2013

Tim Cavanaugh

Executive Editor

Although President Barack Obama and the establishment media routinely describe a potential federal default as “unprecedented,” the United States government has flaked on its debt service several times, and one expert says the current default has already begun.

The historical default precedents should be of limited comfort to Obama, however. One of the deadbeat presidents was the commander in chief during a disastrous war that saw Washington, D.C. occupied and the White House burned to the ground.

The other was Jimmy Carter.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/16/government-default-its-already-happened-twice/#ixzz2htu6Q7U5

Edited October 16, 2013 by chuckd

[F430murci]

Deal reached. Stock market up 200 and rising. Watching tea party goof balls trying to save face on live feed. Business as usual and no surprises here.

[Publicus]

ObamaCare remains fully intact.

The Republican effort in the House to try to couple a defunding of ObamaCare with a shutdown of the US government is a 100% failure, a crackpot idea to begin with, a loser idea from its inception.

The House Republicans got nothing out of Prez Obama, who stood his ground, not budging an inch. Republicans got nothing for all of this madness they caused and created.

Texas Confederate Sen Ted Cruz is totally discredited except among the mooners of the tea party right.

The one thing the Republican shutdown of the US government got the United States is the statement by Fitch Credit Rating Agency that the US government is on a "negative credit watch" which means Fitch will reduce its highest credit rating, AAA, of the United States, by at least one notch. Congratulations to the fiscally irresponsible Republicans of the House.

And congratulations to the Republican party in Washington for causing 75% of all Americans to blame them for all the huge chaos and commotion of the past two weeks' government shutdown.

And a further sincere congratulations to the House Republicans for making ObamaCare more popular than it had been before the House Republicans' harebrained coupling scheme to try to defund and shutdown.

Unconditional surrender.

Appomattox Courthouse redux.

GAME ALMOST OVER: Boehner To Let The Senate Debt Ceiling Deal Come To The Floor

The 2013 debt ceiling crisis and federal government shutdown are almost over.

House Speaker John Boehner has agreed to take up the Senate's plan to raise the nation's borrowing limit and reopen the government, National Review's Robert Costa reports.

Boehner will allow the bill to pass with mostly Democratic votes.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/debt-ceiling-senate-deal-plan-reid-mcconnell-boehner-house-vote-shutdown-2013-10#ixzz2hu1frBQM

Edited October 16, 2013 by Publicus