The end of student visas in Phuket

[Phronesis]

I do not know of one single person that is under 50 years old and has been given a retirement visa or extension.

I will hand this possibility over to other TV members for debunking or confirmation...

Does anyone know someone who has received a retirement visa who is not yet 50 years old?

Let me rephrase your question: Does anyone know someone below the age of 50 years who applied for a retirement extension under paragraph 5 of Police Order 777/2551 and was denied the extension?

It is difficult to predict whether you would be successful with an application under paragraph 5, as immigration might consider it not unreasonable to expect that you invest 10 million Baht in Thailand for an extension under paragraph 2.5(, which amount would represent approximately 3.2% of your assets of 1 million US dollars at the current exchange rate. I suspect that for the majority of foreigners on a retirement extension under paragraph 2.22(5) with a bank deposit of 800k Baht, this deposit amounts to considerably more than 3.2% of their total assets.

Maestro

Your math is appalling.

10 Million baht is around $300,000 US dollars which is about THIRTY percent of 1 million dollars. NOT 3.2 percent.

[patongphil]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

It's just being abused by the wrong type of people. Russian hookers and other illegal workers use it as a easy means of stay, in most cases it just cheaper and easier than other visa options as others have indicated but this just invites crime and scum.

Not all people are abusing it but unfortunately it gets ruined for the genuine people here to study whatever.

I don't think the Ed Visa is cheaper. I've done the sums in another post. Minibus visa runs to Penang are cheaper. No onder they are so popular.

Anyway, I would like to know the true percentage of the "genuine" students compared to those that get the Ed Visa for the purpose of living here on it and show up at school for the bare minimum time, and under sufferance.

There is a great little earner going on in the International schools whereby they organize the parents of the students to piggy back on their children's ED visas with some sort of supporting visa (not sure exactly what).

[NamKangMan]

The idea behind a tourist visa is so the children of expats can attend international schools in Thailand.

Madness..

I meant ED visa

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't have children here, but, I gather what you mean is the child of an expat, who may be legitimately working here, can "live" here in an Ed Visa, but attend a school for children. Eg. International School.

If correct, does that mean you do not have to specifically learn Thai language on an Ed Visa, as the the child of an expat couple most probably would not be.

So, on that basis, is it possible an adult can get an Ed Visa for attending Thai cooking classes, for example?

[Phronesis]

With regard to the Non Immigrant B option, I arrived here on a Non B (exploration visa) granted on the basis of a letter from my chartered accountant stating that I had more than $500,000 in at call bank deposits and wanted to look for investment opportunities in Phuket.

I spent a year doing due diligence on the island but came to the conclusion that investment here is unattractive because the correlation between asset price and yield is unacceptable.

I do not want to run a sham business, or attend to the compliance tasks of doing so. Thus, I moved on to an ED visa.

[Mario2008]

The idea behind a tourist visa is so the children of expats can attend international schools in Thailand.

Madness..

I meant ED visa

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

I don't have children here, but, I gather what you mean is the child of an expat, who may be legitimately working here, can "live" here in an Ed Visa, but attend a school for children. Eg. International School.

If correct, does that mean you do not have to specifically learn Thai language on an Ed Visa, as the the child of an expat couple most probably would not be.

So, on that basis, is it possible an adult can get an Ed Visa for attending Thai cooking classes, for example?

You can study wathever you want, it doesn't have to be Thai language.

As long a s the course an school are recognised for an ED-visa. The school can tel you if they qualify for an ED-visa and for how long you can study there.

[Phronesis]

With regard to school attendance, I have sought to attend my classes regularly and my Thai is now quite reasonable.

However, it should be NOTED that attending anything regularly in Phuket on a regular basis is very difficult.

There are lots of impediments to arriving on time for anything on this Island.

Chronic traffic jams, blocked roads and flash flooding are just a few relevant examples.

Did I attend my last class? No, because the roads from my home to my school were under one meter of water and doing so would have been tantamount to suicide.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Phronesis

[Jasun]

APEC cards were never meant to be a long term solution, but great for visa free travel in the region. Unfortunately the criteria for issuing travel cards has been severely tightened in the last year. That goes for renewals as well as new applications. Under the new rules you need to be at the highest levels of a multinational to qualify.

[stevenl]

I don't have children here, but, I gather what you mean is the child of an expat, who may be legitimately working here, can "live" here in an Ed Visa, but attend a school for children. Eg. International School.

If correct, does that mean you do not have to specifically learn Thai language on an Ed Visa, as the the child of an expat couple most probably would not be.

So, on that basis, is it possible an adult can get an Ed Visa for attending Thai cooking classes, for example?

If a child is studying here on an ED visa, one of the parents can get an O-visa. I know people are using this route.

For requirements for studies etc. see Mario's answer.

[stevenl]

However, it should be NOTED that attending anything regularly in Phuket on a regular basis is very difficult.

Feeble excuse.

[NamKangMan]

@ Mario2008

I seriously would consider moving to an Ed Visa for Thai cooking classes, if the school fees were reasonable.

Go to school for 4 hours a week and cook yourself lunch and/or dinner.

I'm surprised Thai cooking classes haven't looked into this option for farang. More money for them, and the farang picks up his Ed Visa and lunch, or dinner, 4 times a week, and actually learns how to cook Thai food for himself for every other day of the week.

Edited October 10, 2013 by NamKangMan

[stevenl]

All this commotion about something that is probably not even true, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/673669-phuket-immigration-denies-crackdown-on-ed-visas/

[NamKangMan]

All this commotion about something that is probably not even true, http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/673669-phuket-immigration-denies-crackdown-on-ed-visas/

Agreed. We are on Planet Phuket. A place where nothing is ever true. :)

[hansgruber]

Can you point me to one post in this thread where someone is being picked on? I must have missed it.

[NomadJoe]

@ Mario2008

I seriously would consider moving to an Ed Visa for Thai cooking classes, if the school fees were reasonable.

Go to school for 4 hours a week and cook yourself lunch and/or dinner.

I'm surprised Thai cooking classes haven't looked into this option for farang. More money for them, and the farang picks up his Ed Visa and lunch, or dinner, 4 times a week, and actually learns how to cook Thai food for himself for every other day of the week.

Are you sure you can't get an ED visa for Thai cooking classes?

"Can I get an edu visa from a muay thai/diving school/cooking school?

It depends on the school, you and which government official you are dealing with at the time. Generally Thai immigration favours the large universities but remember that the immigration officers can interpret the rules any way they see fit. Your best option is to check if the school is able to get your a 1 year visa or a 3 month visa."

http://www.thai-faq.com/thailand-visa/

[NamKangMan]

@ Mario2008

I seriously would consider moving to an Ed Visa for Thai cooking classes, if the school fees were reasonable.

Go to school for 4 hours a week and cook yourself lunch and/or dinner.

I'm surprised Thai cooking classes haven't looked into this option for farang. More money for them, and the farang picks up his Ed Visa and lunch, or dinner, 4 times a week, and actually learns how to cook Thai food for himself for every other day of the week.

Are you sure you can't get an ED visa for Thai cooking classes?

"Can I get an edu visa from a muay thai/diving school/cooking school?

It depends on the school, you and which government official you are dealing with at the time. Generally Thai immigration favours the large universities but remember that the immigration officers can interpret the rules any way they see fit. Your best option is to check if the school is able to get your a 1 year visa or a 3 month visa."

http://www.thai-faq.com/thailand-visa/

Like I said, I'm surprised a Thai cooking school hasn't "arranged" for certification to offer an official Thai cooking course that also qualifies the student for an Ed Visa.

[iforget]

Phuket Immigration says there is no question of doing away with Non-Imm ED visas. See here (from The Phuket News). But if you are involved in education you should definitely go to the meeting on the 17th, at 10am at the Immigration Office in Saphan Hin.

[transam]

At last they are looking at loop holes that have made those who advertise ''Unlimited stay in Thailand'' via ED visas. That should sort a few things out regarding unhappy Thai business folk wondering how farangs are getting a foot hold in their area.

[LivinLOS]

I do not know of one single person that is under 50 years old and has been given a retirement visa or extension.

I will hand this possibility over to other TV members for debunking or confirmation...

Does anyone know someone who has received a retirement visa who is not yet 50 years old?

Let me rephrase your question: Does anyone know someone below the age of 50 years who applied for a retirement extension under paragraph 5 of Police Order 777/2551 and was denied the extension?

It is difficult to predict whether you would be successful with an application under paragraph 5, as immigration might consider it not unreasonable to expect that you invest 10 million Baht in Thailand for an extension under paragraph 2.5(, which amount would represent approximately 3.2% of your assets of 1 million US dollars at the current exchange rate. I suspect that for the majority of foreigners on a retirement extension under paragraph 2.22(5) with a bank deposit of 800k Baht, this deposit amounts to considerably more than 3.2% of their total assets.

While I understand your comparison I look at it another way..

I can relatively easily generate a 10% return.. Putting 10 mil to one side means I 'lose' 1 mil per annum.. That 80 something k per month of lost revenue improves my quality of life by spending it in another country, or on another solution, fairly easily.

When it was 3 mil it was tempting, Its not unsual for me to have 3 mil in Thailand and I could have found a way.. But 10 ?? Even if it was under 1% of my assets, its still a poor use of them.

For a few years we were not bothered by these posts from LOS.

I fail to see your point.. Your saying (with hopeless math thats totally incorrect) that if you have money its not big loss.. My point is no matter if you have 100k or 20 mil, every option has a relative cost. Simply parking 10 mil and wasting 80K a month in lost income revenue is a pretty poor way to solve a fairly easy visa problem.

It would be far cheaper to simply have someone employ you to do nothing, plus your 3 years with tax payments would count to PR and citizenship.

[LivinLOS]

Cant go back to edit ^^^ But it as Maestro with the maths not SteveNL.

[NamKangMan]

At last they are looking at loop holes that have made those who advertise ''Unlimited stay in Thailand'' via ED visas. That should sort a few things out regarding unhappy Thai business folk wondering how farangs are getting a foot hold in their area.

Is that the same "Thai business folk" that sell goods and services and profit very well from the same farangs that are living here on an Ed Visa? :)

[transam]

At last they are looking at loop holes that have made those who advertise ''Unlimited stay in Thailand'' via ED visas. That should sort a few things out regarding unhappy Thai business folk wondering how farangs are getting a foot hold in their area.

Is that the same "Thai business folk" that sell goods and services and profit very well from the same farangs that are living here on an Ed Visa?

Perhaps, but it is their country, isn't it. ?

[Crazy chef 1]

OK...can any of you explain why so many people, of here, are against this ED visa "loophole" does it hurt you, does it hurt Thailand, does it hurt anyone...just what is the problem with you people.

It's just being abused by the wrong type of people. Russian hookers and other illegal workers use it as a easy means of stay, in most cases it just cheaper and easier than other visa options as others have indicated but this just invites crime and scum.

Not all people are abusing it but unfortunately it gets ruined for the genuine people here to study whatever.

I'd like to see some evidence to prove your point, as for Russian "hookers" all the ones I've seen arrested are released after showing work permits as "actresses.," clear these "ladies" are not on ED visas. As for other "illegal" works, well they are here, but no only on ED visas. So, I still await a reason for peoples problem with this "loophole."

isnt this occupation restricted to locals so you wont get a workpermit for it?i mean actress not the other one...

[NamKangMan]

At last they are looking at loop holes that have made those who advertise ''Unlimited stay in Thailand'' via ED visas. That should sort a few things out regarding unhappy Thai business folk wondering how farangs are getting a foot hold in their area.

Is that the same "Thai business folk" that sell goods and services and profit very well from the same farangs that are living here on an Ed Visa?

Perhaps, but it is their country, isn't it. ?

Of course it's their country, but what employment would they be in if it wasn't for tourism to Thailand?

Look at Egypt, how the lack of tourism effected their ecomony when the sh*te hit the fan there.

Kick out all the farang living here on Ed Visas, then kick guys like me out, living here on tourist visas, and what's Phuket got left, some aging expats, Russian, Chinese and Indian package holiday tourists.

Think post tsunami - foreigners were begged to come back to Phuket.

End a lot of the visas that many are living here on and you will see the same economic woes to the "Thai business folk" you mention, as if they haven't got enough problems at the moment with the changing demographic of tourists.

[transam]

At last they are looking at loop holes that have made those who advertise ''Unlimited stay in Thailand'' via ED visas. That should sort a few things out regarding unhappy Thai business folk wondering how farangs are getting a foot hold in their area.

Is that the same "Thai business folk" that sell goods and services and profit very well from the same farangs that are living here on an Ed Visa?

Perhaps, but it is their country, isn't it. ?

Of course it's their country, but what employment would they be in if it wasn't for tourism to Thailand?

Look at Egypt, how the lack of tourism effected their ecomony when the sh*te hit the fan there.

Kick out all the farang living here on Ed Visas, then kick guys like me out, living here on tourist visas, and what's Phuket got left, some aging expats, Russian, Chinese and Indian package holiday tourists.

Think post tsunami - foreigners were begged to come back to Phuket.

End a lot of the visas that many are living here on and you will see the same economic woes to the "Thai business folk" you mention, as if they haven't got enough problems at the moment with the changing demographic of tourists.

To me reading stuff here, the likes of Pattaya and Phuket have gone down the pan cos of an influx of ''foreign'' folk suddenly opening up businesses. I read here about the Eastern European influx that folk don't like. How are they here ?. Perhaps the police/immigration are looking at places advertising unlimited stay in LOS, seeing they have a lot of students that learning Thai that is of no use to them in Russia for instance and for once saw 2+2=4.

I read about a guy here who has made a fortune out of ''schooling'', but the time must/has come to weed out dodgy visa setups. Married guys with kids are having visa problems when all they want to do is take care of their family.

[IrishIvan]

 

 

At last they are looking at loop holes that have made those who advertise ''Unlimited stay in Thailand'' via ED visas. That should sort a few things out regarding unhappy Thai business folk wondering how farangs are getting a foot hold in their area.

 

Is that the same "Thai business folk" that sell goods and services and profit very well from the same farangs that are living here on an Ed Visa?

 

 

 

Perhaps, but it is their country, isn't it. ?

 

 

Of course it's their country, but what employment would they be in if it wasn't for tourism to Thailand?

 

Look at Egypt, how the lack of tourism effected their ecomony when the sh*te hit the fan there.

 

Kick out all the farang living here on Ed Visas, then kick guys like me out, living here on tourist visas, and what's Phuket got left, some aging expats, Russian, Chinese and Indian package holiday tourists.

 

Think post tsunami - foreigners were begged to come back to Phuket.

 

End a lot of the visas that many are living here on and you will see the same economic woes to the "Thai business folk" you mention, as if they haven't got enough problems at the moment with the changing demographic of tourists.

When did they kick out people on tourist visas?

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jbrain]

Where is Walen when you need him.

He could start a school to study loopholes in the immigration law .

Walen school of loopholes

[BookMan]

Of course it's their country, but what employment would they be in if it wasn't for tourism to Thailand?

Look at Egypt, how the lack of tourism effected their ecomony when the sh*te hit the fan there.

Kick out all the farang living here on Ed Visas, then kick guys like me out, living here on tourist visas, and what's Phuket got left, some aging expats, Russian, Chinese and Indian package holiday tourists.

Think post tsunami - foreigners were begged to come back to Phuket.

End a lot of the visas that many are living here on and you will see the same economic woes to the "Thai business folk" you mention, as if they haven't got enough problems at the moment with the changing demographic of tourists.

Not a great comparison using Egypt.

Kicking out people who live in Thailand on tourist visas would cause barely a ripple in the Thai economy. Overall tourism is 5% of the Thai economy? Most of the tourism number are genuine tourists. Out of say 20 million tourists a year would affect 2-300,000?

Thailand has also has a massive manufacturing base and exports are about 10 X the total of Egypt's exports.

[transam]

Where is Walen when you need him.

He could start a school to study loopholes in the immigration law .

Walen school of loopholes

Busy learning Russian. .............. . Or was.

[LivinginKata]

Defamation post and an off topic post removed.

[NamKangMan]

Of course it's their country, but what employment would they be in if it wasn't for tourism to Thailand?

Look at Egypt, how the lack of tourism effected their ecomony when the sh*te hit the fan there.

Kick out all the farang living here on Ed Visas, then kick guys like me out, living here on tourist visas, and what's Phuket got left, some aging expats, Russian, Chinese and Indian package holiday tourists.

Think post tsunami - foreigners were begged to come back to Phuket.

End a lot of the visas that many are living here on and you will see the same economic woes to the "Thai business folk" you mention, as if they haven't got enough problems at the moment with the changing demographic of tourists.

Not a great comparison using Egypt.

Kicking out people who live in Thailand on tourist visas would cause barely a ripple in the Thai economy. Overall tourism is 5% of the Thai economy? Most of the tourism number are genuine tourists. Out of say 20 million tourists a year would affect 2-300,000?

Thailand has also has a massive manufacturing base and exports are about 10 X the total of Egypt's exports.

My point using Egypt was, when it nearly slipped into civil war, as Thailand nearly did a couple of years ago (red shirt / yellow shirt - 90 shot dead by the Thai army) - one of Egypt's biggest earners, tourism, went down, overnight. Similar to the tsunami hitting Phuket.

Tourism may not be a great deal of the Thai GDP - but it makes up, directly or indirectly, some ridiculous amout of employment - something like 20%.

As far as "barely causing a ripple in the Thai economy" if you klicked out those living here on tourist or Ed visas - ever give a thought to really just how many people that would be? The numbers are huge.

Not everyone here is over 50 years of age and living here on a retirement visa, but are still self funded and legitimate.