Farang-Thai road accident and discrimination

[dotpoom]

Why are you surprised that The lady wasn't ready to meet them yet". This is a typical tactic when dealing with the police here in Thailand. The Red Bull heir who ran over a cop was not ready to meet with the police........The teenager who caused the accident that killed 9 people in Bangkok was not ready to meet with the police yet..Cheralems son who shot a cop was not ready to meet with the police,.... the former miss Thailands son who plowed into a group of pedestrians at a bus stop in a case of road rage was not ready to meet with the police

This is the way Thailand works and after 11 years here I am surprised that you don't know that already. I'm not saying that is it right, just that this is the way it is

True that's the way it is. We are just rewarding them for their stupidity.

Thank you Langsuan Man,

Probably because it never happened to me before.....my wife is Thai .....she was surprised too.

[Forethat]

As I read "Your woe is me" post I find it as a prime example of an incident I could have used to reaffirm my travel choice, I stated if you drive in Thailand, without a firm knowledge of the traffic laws of Thailand You will be held responsible for your questionable choices, if you become involved in an accident while driving in Thailand.

That is what exactly happened to you, (is it not) which resulted in your questionable actions / decisions placed your financial investment at risk, that you felt the need to fly your family out of the country within 2 days and sells all your property in Thailand.

No, that's not at all what "happened to me". Read my post.

If your story is factual and I have reasons to believe it may not be as you contradict you tale, when a poster stated to you that he could not believe someone would leave the country simply because he was involved in a fender bender, you stated, if you find someone that did let me know, (not verbatim but only my recollection) your post also suggested that you also left the country.

Before you make any more argumentative blunders, may I suggest that you actually read what other posters write (especially mine if you are going to continue commenting)

[johnlandy]

something I didnt see in the OP, does the OP have a Thai DL ?

And if he hasn't what difference would that make??

[dotpoom]

So this was a dual carriage way and you were crossing into the lane going into the opposite direction when a bike hit you. Was she coming from the correct direction ?

Just don't really get what has happened here.

But the fact that she has no license and no helmet does not make her in the wrong automatically she could be right but I need to know more. But remember this is Thailand often the bike is protected against the car.

Thank you robblok,

I won't go over it again, I have already said where she was coming from in my post. Suffice to say, all agree that I was not at fault in any way....even the woman's husband has said this to the police. I suspected my remark about being in the wrong when you have no papers might be misconstrued.

It was not reference to the persons driving ability being correct or incorrect. I meant if one has no papers to drive a mechanically propelled vehicle that requires such documents therefore if you drive it on a public highway then you are there illegally.....so my logical conclusion would be that everything you do while in or on that vehicle............. would be illegal. .................... But then again i could be wrong on that. GB.

[PomRakBKK]

I had a similar type of scenario in pattaya 3 days ago. I was driving a bit fast on sukhumvit towards sattahip on my ducati. No traffic so i could go 120-150km/h without a problem. I was in the total right lane and out of nowhere, some old guy drives from the sidewalk straight across the road without looking left or right. Needless to say i crashed right into him at full speed. Sure i was going to fast but the old thai guy didn't bother turning his head left or right for a second to check for oncoming traffic. Once i picked myself up, i went to the old thai guy laying on the floor and moved him off the street, then moved the bikes off the street so traffic could pass.

An SUV full of russians stopped, got out of their car and yelled at me without even knowing what happened.. simply assuming the young idiot on the big bike must have caused this mess. I didn't respond to avoid further drama and cause more harm to myself. A few minutes later the emergency truck and police arrived. Police requested 3,000 baht for not filling a report and the emergency guy told me to give the old guy 3,000 baht so he could go to hospital.

Now i am all busted up, destroyed a 500k motorbike (ducati) and have to life with the consequences that i can never ride a bike again. TIT.

Edited October 12, 2013 by PomRakBKK

[Dellboy218]

I was booked for dangerous driving in Mae Sariang. A Honda Dream towing a trailer on a fast wide open and otherwise empty road decided to move to the other side of the road as I was overtaking. He had to cross the whole road to hit me. Fortunately no one was hurt and damqge minimal. The Police Officer told me that what I should have done was to stay behind the bike, match their speed of 20km/h (in this case) sound my horn, see what they do and only then overtake. I trust you all do the same!

[Ajaan]

I gotta say, I'm just amazed that so many farangs--knowing how everything is stacked against us, and knowing how recklessly the Thais drive--would even dare drive in Thailand at all. God knows I wouldn't.

Mind you, I'm not "blaming the victim" here...I sympathize with the injustice felt by the farangs in all these stories/incidents. But you must have KNOWN what you would be up against in getting behind the wheel here (I sure do...and thus would never dream of doing so)...did you think it would be worth the risk somehow?

You cannot win in confrontations with the Thais, so it is best to stay far, far away from any chance of a confrontation. Three simple rules which will get you a long way and leave you with much peace of mind (and physical and financial safety): 1) never get involved in a romantic relationship with a Thai (c'mon, that's what the sex industry is for, to protect you from ever having to do that!); 2) never get in any sort of physical altercation (i.e. fight) with a Thai...do I really need to explain the downside of disobeying this one? and, 3) never get behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle (I would add bicycle too!) in Thailand. Beyond this, enjoy, it's a great country.

[Sydebolle]

Get CCTV installed in your car with 4 tiny cameras recording the last 30 or 60 minutes. Like with "speeding", keep your Garmin running. Works wonders, trust me! Never ever had an argument again and the missus suggested to claim for "damaged reputation payments" to pay for the equipment.

It will take the "proof" to higher levels and is ultimately much cheaper than arguing with some corrupt pigs!

Not related to the manufacturers but you'll find some ideas at:
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/2013-Newest-H-264-4Ch-SD-Card-Mobile-DVR-Recorder-system-car-black-box-CCTV-DVR/1151304573.html
- or -
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/car-cctv-dvr-supplier-bus-motion-detection-dvr-factory-truck-hd-cctc-dvr-with-GPS/661340940.html

[dotpoom]

Yes....I have Thai driving licenses for car and motorbike..sorry,..... thought it was obvious if I had everything else in order.

something I didnt see in the OP, does the OP have a Thai DL ?

[NoshowJones]

Slightly off-topic, but I couldn't help but notice this in the OP:

"Almost instantly passers by helped the woman up and she was taken to the hospital by the rescue team for a check up.....she is fine , thank God, a few minor scratches."

Wait a minute, but didn't the TV know-it-alls insists that this never happens in Thailand? That the Thais never help victims of accidents? Another myth debunk.

As for the OP, no worries. If you have Class I insurance, your insurance company will "take care."

Mr Berkshire, the way you always stick up for Thailand and Thai people is admirable, and I do agree with you most of the time, but you would gain a lot of credibility of you would just admit what we all know. The standard of driving and riding motorbikes in Thailand is dreadful amongst the majority of Thais, and I mean the majority.

[Forethat]

I gotta say, I'm just amazed that so many farangs--knowing how everything is stacked against us, and knowing how recklessly the Thais drive--would even dare drive in Thailand at all. God knows I wouldn't.

Mind you, I'm not "blaming the victim" here...I sympathize with the injustice felt by the farangs in all these stories/incidents. But you must have KNOWN what you would be up against in getting behind the wheel here (I sure do...and thus would never dream of doing so)...did you think it would be worth the risk somehow?

But don't you recognise that this is two separate issues? I appreciate that they are linked, but the "discrimination" doesn't have anything to do with the level of danger on Thai roads OR traffic laws. You dont even need to drive a vehicle to experience the "discrimination".

I think "discrimination" is the wrong word for what is going on, I think it's more "borderline opportunism"

[Thai Chi]

Three simple rules which will get you a long way and leave you with much peace of mind (and physical and financial safety):

1) never get involved in a romantic relationship with a Thai (c'mon, that's what the sex industry is for, to protect you from ever having to do that!);

2) never get in any sort of physical altercation (i.e. fight) with a Thai...do I really need to explain the downside of disobeying this one? and,

3) never get behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle (I would add bicycle too!) in Thailand. Beyond this, enjoy, it's a great country.

Well, that's 3 Fails for me

[jollyman]

One day, something bad is going to happen in Thailand, and it may be a Farang did it/caused it/started it? Well then they will send us all home or WORSE, in a nut shell, THEY DONT WANT US!

[dotpoom]

Thank you Neeranan,

Sometimes when I'm in a position where everybody around me is speaking Thai and I have very little knowledge of the language...... I have found it wiser to let my Thai wife do the talking,...... I thought that was a wise choice?....... I wasn't really in the form for asserting my "powerfulness" to a Thai woman who was lying in the fetal position on the ground....maybe that was the wrong approach also...according to yourself.

I note that you yourself like to call in a few people from time to time to do a bit of talking for you.

But i do take note of other points you make and am glad you reminded me of the....like tooting the horn etc. A valuable reminder to myself as I am prone to doing it and you may have saved my life.............Thanking you and GB.

Firstly, I'm surprised you don't know the way things work here after living here for 11 years. Also, you need your wife to do the talking?

This is not a Thai farang issue. When an accident happens the 2 parties size each other up. It is to do with how much 'power' you have. Granted, at first most Thais will see a foreigner, especially white one, and think they know nothing/nobody, especially if they are in Pattaya or tourist area. These stupid farang can't even speak the language - of course they won't know 'the law' or the procedure. I wouldn't be surprised if the OP didn't know what 'Boon Khun' is, for example.

I've had accidents here - one time the pick up was on the wrong side of the road and had a head on with me. As I was limping about with a broken foot I heard them say that I was at fault. What to do? Boon Khun time! I called someone and they came and I ended up getting 1 months salary compensation, my car fixed and hospital costs. The guy was also fined 400 baht.
But, my car took 3 months to get fixed and the insurance didn't pay for my rented car so what now? Sue the pricks. A police friend was going to help. Delay - my friend became senator of the region so wait a month until he's in office. Delay, Taxsin and his government is booted out. Plan 2 - settle for half the money by bribing someone in the insurance company.

Usually the bigger vehicle pays. It has all to do with positioning on the social ladder. Thais look at the woman that foreigners are with and know instantly if the farang could have any power.

I hear people talking about having a get out of jail card. I have used these before and can't stress the importance of getting to 'know' people here if you plan on living happily for years. Learn the language, have Thai friends, join clubs etc.

I can't believe that some people leave the country because another car hits theirs.
I do have a buddy who was hit from behind by an off duty soldier. The soldier attacked him with a machete as he lost face when he approached my friend's car and said it was his fault and tried to grab his keys. My mate grabbed his hand and would give them. He said if he hadn't been a black belt in karate and ex army, he'd have been dead as the machete weilder was trying to kill him. Warning - never toot your horn to show someone is in the wrong. It could cost you your life. 3 months ago In khon kaen central street a man was shot dead for hooting his horn. I have a friend who's son's friend was shot in the head for tooting his horn.

Integrate, learn the language, learn the ways to get out of trouble. Don't think it of them and us. I can't emphasize how important it is to learn the language - how the hell are you going to know what's going on if you don't?

[gamini]

I have been i numerous accidents in my 50 years in Thailand, but I have a first class expensive comprehensive insurance policy. I have a number to ring and they phone their nearest rep. I have seldom had to wait more than a few minutes just to tell the rep. what happened and then I can leave. Never had to go to the police station. They handle everything.

But with all the motor bikes on the road the situation gets worse every year, especially in Chiangmai and they drive so badly. So I don't drive anymore and employ a driver

[SKguy]

I got involved in a minor accident in 2011 where I was hit by a minibus who was trying to squeeze his way between mine and another car. I was stationary and had been for a minute when he hit me. The result was a four foot long scraping on the minibus from when he tried to squeeze by.

The driver of the minibus called the police to the scene, and the chaos that followed caused the attention of other drivers. Basically, the driver of the minibus wanted money. A lot of money. I got the impression others got interested when they heard the amounts being discussed, and for this reason another driver came forward and claimed I had hit his car. He also wanted money. Soon the police officers decided to have a go; if they're getting money, we're having some as well!

I will not go into detail of the ugly and unfortunate events that followed (though sdk here on TV actually knows the details), but this event triggered a decision to fly my family out of Thailand (which they did within 48 hours), close my business and sell my two houses and leave Thailand. Which I did soon after my business was closed.

I have always wondered what triggers someone to lie, cheat, bend the rules or even use criminal actions to extort money from others, and it's clear that jealousy is a huge factor. In my case, being a farang and driving a new BMW 5-series probably didn't help. In Europe, youngsters are getting robbed of their mobile phones by school kid bullies. Thailand is no different, only here it's grown ups doing the bullying..

I'm glad you left - overreaction thy name is farang

Forethat, I'm appalled that you suffered such disgraceful injustice in Thailand and can quite understand why you decided to leave.

[lineofentry]

I was the only farang in a pick-up full of Thais, not driving, we hit a black Merc, I ducked down, slipped out of the rear and disappeared. Seemed like the wise thing to do.

[SOTIRIOS]

......this is how everything works against foreigners in Thailand.....

....haven't you read.....if a Thai murders you.....it was your fault.....

[willyumiii]

My experience was similar.

While traveling down a dirt road at a low rate of speed, less than 15 KPH, I came to a small curve.

Saw a bike coming fast, cutting the corner on my side of the road.

I pulled to the extreme left and stopped.

He panicked, locked up the front and rear brakes on his bike and slammed into me.

No damage to me or my bike, but he split his hand open between the thumb and forefinger.

I asked if he was o.k.. He held out his hand to show me and then took off fast on his bike.

I tried to follow, thinking he was going to the local clinic for first aid, but I lost him and he was not at the clinic when I arrived.

Long story short..his wife shows up at my village and leaves a message that I need to give him a large sum of money since he will not be able to work for a while!

My wife, knowing I was upset ,would not let me join her when she went to the other persons house to talk to them.

When she returned, she told me that she only had to pay them half of what they wanted and was happy about it!

Foot note: When my wife went to pay him, he told her that he lied at the hospital and told them that he hurt his hand by dropping a piece of wood on it!

Maybe to cover his rear since he had no, licence, registration ,or insurance???

I told her that he was in the wrong and that we should not pay anything.

She corrected me.

In Thailand everyone knows accidents are always the Farang's fault.

Even the police believe that if you had stayed in your own country and not come to Thailand the accident would not have happened!

Since then I have heard the same statement from other Thais, one of them was a police officer.

Better to negotiate and pay then go to court and pay more I guess!

Edited October 12, 2013 by willyumiii

[dluek]

Initial story pretty unclear, but in the US if you hit anything from behind you're usually the one at fault.

[BuriramRes]

It is not always like this. A couple of years ago, at my wife's village, two children on a motorbike were hit by a Thai driving a pick-up. The children were very badly hurt (having no helmets of course). Also on a m/c with no registration & children too young to have a licence.

The pick-up did not stop for the accident but had to stop a couple of kms along due to a wrecked radiator.

Police came & said the children were in the wrong having no licence,registration, etc. No mention about the hit & run.

We arrived on the scene when the children were being treated by locals, including the manager of the village (who had a new pick-up).

He would not take the kids to hospital because he was scared that one would die in his new car (leaving their ghost there).

We bundled them into the back of our Fortuner & made an emergency trip to the nearest hospital along with a parent.

The child who was making the most noise turned out to be OK, the other one was released from the hospital but died a couple of weeks later having had brain trauma. The pick-up driver who was the hit & run party had to repair his own vehicle, I assume.

Edited October 12, 2013 by BuriramRes

[HUAHIN62]

Sorry but where is the discrimmination? You where involved in an accident with a woman that know she is wrong but which is taking a chance. If she doesnt she knows she will have to pay for your car repairs. Your insurance company is trying to get away because they know the lady will never be able to pay. I think you should sit back take deep breath and think. After that make an appointment to see the insurance company's highest possible manager. At the meeting dont get angry just explain what happened and if the manager play hard ball make him understand what you will do to make the company lose face. The company must legaly fix your vehicle and you must not let emotion cloud your vision.

[Berkshire]

Slightly off-topic, but I couldn't help but notice this in the OP:

"Almost instantly passers by helped the woman up and she was taken to the hospital by the rescue team for a check up.....she is fine , thank God, a few minor scratches."

Wait a minute, but didn't the TV know-it-alls insists that this never happens in Thailand? That the Thais never help victims of accidents? Another myth debunk.

As for the OP, no worries. If you have Class I insurance, your insurance company will "take care."

Mr Berkshire, the way you always stick up for Thailand and Thai people is admirable, and I do agree with you most of the time, but you would gain a lot of credibility of you would just admit what we all know. The standard of driving and riding motorbikes in Thailand is dreadful amongst the majority of Thais, and I mean the majority.

Actually, I recently posted on another thread about driving a motorbike in Thailand. Some young farang was asking about it and I told him point blank, riding a motorbike in Thailand can be rather dangerous for a novice.

As for driving in Thailand, if it was really that bad, i.e., "the majority of drivers being dreadful," I would think most of us would be involved in accidents frequently. But I drive every single day and rarely have a problem. I honestly believe that the percentage of "normal" drivers here is the same as everywhere else (normal being the standard etiquette and rules-of-the-road in Thailand), but there's always going to be a small percentage who are careless and reckless.

And your definition of a crappy driver is probably not the same as mine. I'd honestly prefer an aggressive driver over slow and meek drivers. Do you consider driving overly slow and taking a long time to merge into traffic a good thing? Anyways, we can certainly agree to disagree. As I've said before, I prefer driving in Thailand over driving in the USA.

[Banzai99]

In the United States the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) estimates that 17,941 people died in 2006 in alcohol-related collisions, representing 40% of total traffic deaths in the US. NHTSA states 275,000 were injured in alcohol-related accidents in 2003.^[1] The Bureau of Justice Statistics estimated that in 1996 local law enforcement agencies made 1,467,300 arrests nationwide for driving under the influence of alcohol, 1 out of every 10 arrests for all crimes in the U.S., compared to 1.9 million such arrests during the peak year in 1983, accounting for 1 out of every 80 licensed drivers in the U.S.^[2][3]

^{Why can't the Thai's be more like us ? Hang on a minute...................they are}

[PeVee1st]

About 2 years ago I was involved in a minor accident with no injuries to persons. The OP had no licence but the car was insured. My Lawyer attended on my behalf and sorted the mattter for me. It did not stop the OP insurance from contacting me to pay for the OP damage. My Lawyer told me to ignore their calls and wait for any court action. None came.

About 7 years ago a death wish motorcyclist, side swiped my car in a risky overtaking move that ended with him all over the road but not seriously injured. I was clearly in the right, but ended up at the Police station for a chat. My Insurance would not attend due to the location having no local rep. After several hours it was admitted that the biker was in the wrong and I was told I could go, when I asked for the bikers details, I was told he had gone earlier.

My Insurance did not want to know about the bike details, so I made a claim to fix my car and dumped the insurance when the policy expired.

So even though first class insurance is good in these events, a good Thai Lawyer is better.

[apetley]

I gotta say, I'm just amazed that so many farangs--knowing how everything is stacked against us, and knowing how recklessly the Thais drive--would even dare drive in Thailand at all. God knows I wouldn't.

Mind you, I'm not "blaming the victim" here...I sympathize with the injustice felt by the farangs in all these stories/incidents. But you must have KNOWN what you would be up against in getting behind the wheel here (I sure do...and thus would never dream of doing so)...did you think it would be worth the risk somehow?

You cannot win in confrontations with the Thais, so it is best to stay far, far away from any chance of a confrontation. Three simple rules which will get you a long way and leave you with much peace of mind (and physical and financial safety): 1) never get involved in a romantic relationship with a Thai (c'mon, that's what the sex industry is for, to protect you from ever having to do that!); 2) never get in any sort of physical altercation (i.e. fight) with a Thai...do I really need to explain the downside of disobeying this one? and, 3) never get behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle (I would add bicycle too!) in Thailand. Beyond this, enjoy, it's a great country.

With that degree of paranoia I hazard a guess you are an American.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[FangFerang]

I was on a bar stool in Issan when a pair of Thais on different bikes hit each other (unknown to since my back was turned). One of the bikes slid across the sidewalk, under my stool and sent me somersaulting. The Thai who caused the accident tried to say I distracted him, and if I had not been with a Thai friend who is a cop I would have had to pay. When the man who caused the accident realized my friend was a cop, he ran off, leaving both bikes and the woman he hit laying in the road. Onlookers helped her up, she was dazed but only scratched.

The bar owner picked up our tab and gave us a few more free driunks and dinner.

I got off easy for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

The whole incident was surreal, educational, and like watching an old episode of the Three Stooges.

[Utley]

Why are you surprised that The lady wasn't ready to meet them yet". This is a typical tactic when dealing with the police here in Thailand. The Red Bull heir who ran over a cop was not ready to meet with the police........The teenager who caused the accident that killed 9 people in Bangkok was not ready to meet with the police yet..Cheralems son who shot a cop was not ready to meet with the police,.... the former miss Thailands son who plowed into a group of pedestrians at a bus stop in a case of road rage was not ready to meet with the police

This is the way Thailand works and after 11 years here I am surprised that you don't know that already. I'm not saying that is it right, just that this is the way it is

I agree 100% with this statement but the real point is that you, as a foreigner, are not part of the "Thai System" and "not being ready to meet with the police" is not an option for you. Your only viable option is to make a small contribution to the police drinking fund as quickly as possible and get on with your life. The longer you wait the larger the contribution.

[philw]

Three simple rules which will get you a long way and leave you with much peace of mind (and physical and financial safety):

1) never get involved in a romantic relationship with a Thai (c'mon, that's what the sex industry is for, to protect you from ever having to do that!);

2) never get in any sort of physical altercation (i.e. fight) with a Thai...do I really need to explain the downside of disobeying this one? and,

3) never get behind the wheel of a motorized vehicle (I would add bicycle too!) in Thailand. Beyond this, enjoy, it's a great country.

Well, that's 3 Fails for me

Same.

3 fails for me also and still alive and happy.

[lensta]

So this was a dual carriage way and you were crossing into the lane going into the opposite direction when a bike hit you. Was she coming from the correct direction ?

Just don't really get what has happened here.

But the fact that she has no license and no helmet does not make her in the wrong automatically she could be right but I need to know more. But remember this is Thailand often the bike is protected against the car.

But the fact that she has no license and no helmet does not make her in the wrong automatically

Yes it does, she shouldn't be on the road.

But remember this is Thailand often the bike is protected against the car.

This used to be true, but hasn't been the case for many years now but

the BIB still try to enforce this non existent law, especially against farang.