Pattaya - The New Deadwood?

[Buckwheat]

Yeah,

It's horrible here...everybody should stay away until Sheriff dvk1951 cleans out the riff-raff.

[COBBER]

Anyone who has lived in Bang Saen will tell you about the major problem there, and it is undoubtedly led to the clearing of rubbish from parts of the town....monkeys....more intelligent than the dogs and far more dextrous these vermin can open just about anything including your house and kitchen. And they fight with the dogs.

Pattaya could do with a clean-up but lets not confuse this with the portrayal by certain jealots of Pattaya as undesireable becouse of it's libertarian attitudes...it is these they want to destroy. I think destroying the location and returning it to a fishing village is a bit ambitious.

BTW....the sea at Bang Saen is just as polluted and there IS a dog problem, garbage etc, it's just that the sea front cleaning is better organised, and remember the visitors who stay in Bang Saen only come on W/E and holidays, few stay the night and this leaves plenty of time to clean up afterwards.

Last Sunday at Bang Saen there were hundreds of cars and thousands of people and the seaside sidewalks, parking bays, shopping area, cooking areas, walkway and beach were spotless. Not a plastic bag, or styrofoam container, or plasic straw, or cigarette butt, to be seen. Your argument that there's plenty of time to clean up doesn't hold water.

I'm glad you agree that Pattaya could do with a much better garbage collection, could be better organised. You can help, you know, by picking up garbage. If all the farangs did so, City Hall would get the message!

Is the sea at Jomthien polluted? Is it dangerous to swim there?

I don't remember anybody saying they wanted Pattaya to be a little fishing village again.

Pattaya is undesirable to many people because of, as you call it, its 'libertarian attitudes' and some of these 'attitudes' do need to be destroyed and others need to be less 'in your face'. And we must remember that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

If the "legality of prostitution" is an issue for you, what the hel_l are you doing living here.

Another missionary ?

Edited December 6, 2006 by COBBER

[Buckwheat]

Anyone who has lived in Bang Saen will tell you about the major problem there, and it is undoubtedly led to the clearing of rubbish from parts of the town....monkeys....more intelligent than the dogs and far more dextrous these vermin can open just about anything including your house and kitchen. And they fight with the dogs.

Pattaya could do with a clean-up but lets not confuse this with the portrayal by certain jealots of Pattaya as undesireable becouse of it's libertarian attitudes...it is these they want to destroy. I think destroying the location and returning it to a fishing village is a bit ambitious.

BTW....the sea at Bang Saen is just as polluted and there IS a dog problem, garbage etc, it's just that the sea front cleaning is better organised, and remember the visitors who stay in Bang Saen only come on W/E and holidays, few stay the night and this leaves plenty of time to clean up afterwards.

Last Sunday at Bang Saen there were hundreds of cars and thousands of people and the seaside sidewalks, parking bays, shopping area, cooking areas, walkway and beach were spotless. Not a plastic bag, or styrofoam container, or plasic straw, or cigarette butt, to be seen. Your argument that there's plenty of time to clean up doesn't hold water.

I'm glad you agree that Pattaya could do with a much better garbage collection, could be better organised. You can help, you know, by picking up garbage. If all the farangs did so, City Hall would get the message!

Is the sea at Jomthien polluted? Is it dangerous to swim there?

I don't remember anybody saying they wanted Pattaya to be a little fishing village again.

Pattaya is undesirable to many people because of, as you call it, its 'libertarian attitudes' and some of these 'attitudes' do need to be destroyed and others need to be less 'in your face'. And we must remember that prostitution is illegal in Thailand.

If the "legality of prostitutuion" is an issue for you, what the hel_l are you doing living here.

Another missionary ?

[Tammi]

A. If the "legality of prostitutuion" is an issue for you, what the hel_l are you doing living here.

B. Another missionary ?

A. I've been told prostitution is illegal in Thailand. It has absolutely nothing to do with my living here. There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

B. Is there something you don't like about missionaries? Are there missionaries in Pattaya area? What work are they doing?

[davethailand]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

[Ulysses G.]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

Must be a bird-watcher!

[britmaveric]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

Must be a bird-watcher!

What's wrong with spending time with people ? - job preference doesnt make a bit difference to me.

[Rimmer]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

Must be a bird-watcher!

[Tammi]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

Must be a bird-watcher!

What's wrong with spending time with people ? - job preference doesnt make a bit difference to me.

I said there's a lot of other things to do besides hanging out with prostitutes. Can't you guys read and understand a simple sentence?

And, dear Brit, since you are so magnanimous, perhaps you can answer my question about missionaries and what work they are doing here.

[britmaveric]

Well never seen any missionaries per say in patters, seen them in BKK though. Rather amusing - preaching fire/brimstone to all that enter Nana Plaza/Soi Cowboy Ect and trying to convert the ladies to christianity. Ladies try and pull the do-gooders. I often get the feeling the missionaries come back after they finish work and well partake.

[Sunderland]

Its obvious to me that you Jasperblubber moved to Pattaya for the wrong reasons, if you move to a city just for drinking and sex than you are a sad human being. I am thinking of moving to somewhere in SEA and Pattaya is one of places I quite like. I live in a city in Australia where we have the tourist strip and I can assure you it is not a good place to be late at night. To call Pattaya a toilet is very shallow, the place in USA must of been a real shithole if you had to leave it. I drink rum and I love it, but I dont expect others to like it because I do, its the same as with any city you will either love it or hate it.But dont call it a toilet

I will spend some more time in Pattaya in 07 and see if it is the place I want to be, but you can bet your bottom dollar, it wont be the bars or bar girls that will sway my decision.Unlike some posters on here.

Fair enough ... but it is still a pretty unpleasant place to choose to live.

[Buckwheat]

Fair enough ... but it is still a pretty unpleasant place to choose to live.

Do you live there?

[Kerryd]

Fair enough ... but it is still a pretty unpleasant place to choose to live.

Well, I've lived in worse places, including cities that are very highly ranked among the "Best Places to Live".

Garbage in the streets, Hookers on the corners, gang wars, drug pushers and addicts in the alleys and parks, sleezy clubs, drunks staggering on the sidewalks and puking in the streets.

Pattaya you say ?

Nay I say ! I'm taking about Vancouver, Canada !

I could have said Amsterdam. Or Budapest. Or Hamburg. Or London. Or most major American cities.

I thought the garbage situation in Pattaya was pretty bad. That is, until I saw parts of Delhi. That was worse by far. Then I saw Cairo, and so far, that is the dirtiest city I've ever seen.

The sex trade is thriving quite openly in places like Amsterdam, Hamburg and Budapest, but you don't hear a lot of moaning and complaining about those places.

At least in Pattaya, you don't have to wade through clouds of Pot or Hash smoke to get a cup of coffee or drink at a bar.

At least in Pattaya, the "drug scene" isn't in your face every where you turn (yes, I know. There is still a drug scene in Pattaya, but it doesn't come close to what goes on in most Western cities).

For those that like to bitch about Pattaya, tell me. If where you are from is so much better than Pattaya, then why do you even bother to complain about the place ?

[tropo]

Fair enough ... but it is still a pretty unpleasant place to choose to live.

Why? Would you care to elaborate.

I've chosen it as a place to live and love it. I can live anywhere in Thailand I please, but it's Pattaya for me.

I never go to bars or even barhop...I'm not here for the girls (or boys or ladyboys)....go on, say something derogatory about my personality because I choose to live in a place you don't like.

I could make a long list of reasons why it's by far the best place for ME to live in Thailand. Where one choses to live is a personal choice.

Where do you live?

Edited December 6, 2006 by tropo

[tropo]

Anyone who has lived in Bang Saen will tell you about the major problem there, and it is undoubtedly led to the clearing of rubbish from parts of the town....monkeys....more intelligent than the dogs and far more dextrous these vermin can open just about anything including your house and kitchen. And they fight with the dogs.

Pattaya could do with a clean-up but lets not confuse this with the portrayal by certain jealots of Pattaya as undesireable becouse of it's libertarian attitudes...it is these they want to destroy. I think destroying the location and returning it to a fishing village is a bit ambitious.

BTW....the sea at Bang Saen is just as polluted and there IS a dog problem, garbage etc, it's just that the sea front cleaning is better organised, and remember the visitors who stay in Bang Saen only come on W/E and holidays, few stay the night and this leaves plenty of time to clean up afterwards.

Rubbish!

[Buckwheat]

I said there's a lot of other things to do besides hanging out with prostitutes.

Like hanging out laundry on balconies?

[Tammi]

Well never seen any missionaries per say in patters, seen them in BKK though. Rather amusing - preaching fire/brimstone to all that enter Nana Plaza/Soi Cowboy Ect and trying to convert the ladies to christianity. Ladies try and pull the do-gooders. I often get the feeling the missionaries come back after they finish work and well partake.

I know the kind. I avoid them too. I am trying to find out about missionaries who are here doing good works with HIV/AIDS patients, poor children, the poor elderly, at the police lockups, in the slums, and so on.

[Mobi]

Rubbish!

Well, I was going to keep out of this one, out of respect for Mr Wilko's sterling "Pattaya defender" role.

But, as you say, it is indeed rubbish.

I used to own a house not far from Kow Samuk (where the Bang Saen monkeys live), and the furthest they stray from their home is the junction to the main Road. I never, ever saw a monkey anwhere near the beach which is at least a mile or so from Kow Samuk. The monkeys are looked after really well, have their own little colony, and are fed by visitors every day and have no need to stray far from their home.

The beach at BangSaen is always much cleaner than Pattaya's beaches. If you think that Pattaya's beaches get crowded on weekends and holidays - then I suggest you go to Bang Saen some time. They are packed to suffocation at such times, and many Thais stay on the beach all day and all night: singing, drinking, eating, sleeping. eating, drinking, singing sleeping.... Then you have the school holidays, when the beaches are packed every day, as families make day trips and overnights from Bangkok and further afield.

As I said in my earlier post, there is obviously a higher authority who is organisng all this, but there is absolutely no doubt that the beaches there are kept spotless all the time.

Example: in Pattaya, you usually have to ask for a rubbish bin to put you rubbish in - and many visitors don't get one and simply throw their rubbbish in the sand. At BangSaen - the first thing they bring to you after you sit down is a large bin, and they get a bit put out if you throw anything in the sand, as it is their responsibility to keep the beach clean.

Sorry on this one Wilko, but I think you got it wrong.

[Mobi]

Well never seen any missionaries per say in patters, seen them in BKK though. Rather amusing - preaching fire/brimstone to all that enter Nana Plaza/Soi Cowboy Ect and trying to convert the ladies to christianity. Ladies try and pull the do-gooders. I often get the feeling the missionaries come back after they finish work and well partake.

I know the kind. I avoid them too. I am trying to find out about missionaries who are here doing good works with HIV/AIDS patients, poor children, the poor elderly, at the police lockups, in the slums, and so on.

Hi Tammi,

You are obviously referring to the Camillian centre at Bang Chang which ius run by Catholics and takes care of HIV infected children. and the Mercy Centre in Pattya, which feeds the slum people, provides a residential home for street kids, visits destitute mothers with kids in prison etc. This centre is run by two elderly Canadians who are evangelical Christians.

There are other organisations that help and look after orphans run by the State, but by and large the Thais prefer to close their eyes to these kind of problems and pretend they don't exist. They even have Christian groups who try to hinder and stop what the foreign "missionaries" are doing, because they are ashamed they are not doing something themselves - Thai face again, I'm afraid.

Not too much Fire and brimstone on Walking Street - maybe a bit too hot to handle.

[icecubes]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

I tried to tell you all, in a diferent thread.

Snobish and all that.

[wilko]

Rubbish!

Well, I was going to keep out of this one, out of respect for Mr Wilko's sterling "Pattaya defender" role.

But, as you say, it is indeed rubbish.

I used to own a house not far from Kow Samuk (where the Bang Saen monkeys live), and the furthest they stray from their home is the junction to the main Road. I never, ever saw a monkey anwhere near the beach which is at least a mile or so from Kow Samuk. The monkeys are looked after really well, have their own little colony, and are fed by visitors every day and have no need to stray far from their home.

The beach at BangSaen is always much cleaner than Pattaya's beaches. If you think that Pattaya's beaches get crowded on weekends and holidays - then I suggest you go to Bang Saen some time. They are packed to suffocation at such times, and many Thais stay on the beach all day and all night: singing, drinking, eating, sleeping. eating, drinking, singing sleeping.... Then you have the school holidays, when the beaches are packed every day, as families make day trips and overnights from Bangkok and further afield.

As I said in my earlier post, there is obviously a higher authority who is organisng all this, but there is absolutely no doubt that the beaches there are kept spotless all the time.

Example: in Pattaya, you usually have to ask for a rubbish bin to put you rubbish in - and many visitors don't get one and simply throw their rubbbish in the sand. At BangSaen - the first thing they bring to you after you sit down is a large bin, and they get a bit put out if you throw anything in the sand, as it is their responsibility to keep the beach clean.

Sorry on this one Wilko, but I think you got it wrong.

I'm not actually disagreeing with you ...I'm saying that they have the time inbetween surges to clean the beaches properly.Pattya is a 24 hours place, which can hardly be said of BS. As I say I worked in BS for some time and many of my colleagues suffered form Monkey problems....yes they keep away from the beach but they will venture into all sorts of places in the town from time to time.

the fact that the rubbish is kept well down on the beach is of course evidence in itself that dogs/animals are no longer a nuisance if the rubbsh is removed. In BS it's where they put the rubbish after you've put it in their little bins. Mostly under the Scandinavian village , it would seem!

As for monkey mountain....yuck!

I have friends in Kao Samuk who certainly would agree with me ......

Edited December 7, 2006 by wilko

[Mobi]

Ok, I think we're pretty much in agreement here, except that I believe there is a greater will to keep BS clean than exists with the authorities in Pattaya.

Maybe the new Mayor, related as he is to the BS regime, might crank up the cleanliness efforts.

BTW - is anyone left at Scandinavian Village? The last time I was there, it was almost deserted, and those that were there were trying to sell up.

Not surprsing if it has become a rubbish dump.

Edited December 7, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[Gary A]

It's a strange thing about Jomtien Beach. I find that it is cleaner now than I have ever seen it. There is also a 2,000 baht fine for people who litter. Early in the morning you will see many of the vendors raking through the sand making their little area as clean as possible.

You haven't been here 20 years. But that aside, the beach did get into a dreadful state and City Hall then decided to allow vendors who will lose their licences if they don't clean. But nobody seems to ensure that areas of beach are cleaned where there are no chairs, umbrellas, tables, cold boxes, tubes. Also at toilets. Also garbage bins.

Does this B2,000 fine apply on Dongtan Beach? I haven't seen any notices.

Perhaps you are the one who is confused. I just happen to own a condo there. Where did you come up with the 20 years? Are you sure you are talking about Jomtien?

I don't hang around gay beaches so I wouldn't know about Dongtan. That beach is disgusting regardless whether it is clean or dirty.

[Creeper]

I could make a long list of reasons why it's by far the best place for ME to live in Thailand.

Ok, go on then..you don't go to bars, you are not interested in the girls or boys or ladyboys, so what is it, the Golf, the unbearable heat, the low crime rates, the pollution, the equality you have as a Farang with the local Thai people, the water shortages, the constant traffic problems, the pristine beaches, the crystal clear waters, the peace and tranquility of yet another illegal karaoke machine blasting out music all night ?

[Buckwheat]

Ok, go on then..you don't go to bars, you are not interested in the girls or boys or ladyboys, so what is it, the Golf, the unbearable heat, the low crime rates, the pollution, the equality you have as a Farang with the local Thai people, the water shortages, the constant traffic problems, the pristine beaches, the crystal clear waters, the peace and tranquility of yet another illegal karaoke machine blasting out music all night ?

All the above...I LOVE this place

[davethailand]

There's lots of other things to do besides hang out with prostitutes.

Oh dear

I tried to tell you all, in a diferent thread.

Snobish and all that.

I know

[davethailand]

Ok, go on then..you don't go to bars, you are not interested in the girls or boys or ladyboys, so what is it, the Golf, the unbearable heat, the low crime rates, the pollution, the equality you have as a Farang with the local Thai people, the water shortages, the constant traffic problems, the pristine beaches, the crystal clear waters, the peace and tranquility of yet another illegal karaoke machine blasting out music all night ?

All the above...I LOVE this place

Same here.

[wilko]

Ok, I think we're pretty much in agreement here, except that I believe there is a greater will to keep BS clean than exists with the authorities in Pattaya.

Maybe the new Mayor, related as he is to the BS regime, might crank up the cleanliness efforts.

BTW - is anyone left at Scandinavian Village? The last time I was there, it was almost deserted, and those that were there were trying to sell up.

Not surprsing if it has become a rubbish dump.

As for will...yes but .... both towns have inadequate infrastructures and I think that poor old Pattay is just under that much more pressure and with not a moments reprieve...that's not to say thet couldn't do better with a modicum of commonsense and oragisation...

Mmm the mayor? better not go there!

As for the Scandinavian lot...well they look quite busy but it looks to be if it's built on landfill and garbage land fill at that.

[wilko]

I said there's a lot of other things to do besides hanging out with prostitutes.

Like hanging out laundry on balconies?

and that applies tro every town in Italy as well I guess

[Kerryd]

Ok, go on then..you don't go to bars, you are not interested in the girls or boys or ladyboys, so what is it, the Golf, the unbearable heat, the low crime rates, the pollution, the equality you have as a Farang with the local Thai people, the water shortages, the constant traffic problems, the pristine beaches, the crystal clear waters, the peace and tranquility of yet another illegal karaoke machine blasting out music all night ?

All the above...I LOVE this place

Same here.

Same Same here !

I do go to bars (just as I do in almost every other country I've been in)

I am interested in girls (as I am in almost every other country I go to)

The heat isn't that bad at all (try Dubai or Afghanistan in the summer !)

Crime Rate is much worse in many other "more civilised" places in the world. Same for the pollution, equality and traffic problems. The beaches I go to seem nice enough, and if I'm having trouble sleeping at night, it's not because of a karaoke machine !

I still shake my head when I hear people complain about the way things are elsewhere, as though the whole world should be exactly like where they come from. If all the problems listed above don't exist where you come from, then why don't you stay there ?

Me, I'll stick with Pattaya. (Sheesh, I even think those folks living on the other side of Sukhumvit are weird !)