Indonesian Leader Deplores Statement by Aussie PM

[GrantSmith]

So you're saying we shouldn't give aid to millions of people struck by disaster unless their government does everything we say?  Nice . . . 

That's generally how it works... A very simplistic explanation, but it's the general gist of it...

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[samran]

Not that long ago, Indonesian troops were trying to kill their Australian counterparts in East Timor.

and thirty odd years before that, Australian troops were shooting at Indonesian troops.

[Sing_Sling]

So you're saying we shouldn't give aid to millions of people struck by disaster unless their government does everything we say? Nice . . .

That's generally how it works... A very simplistic explanation, but it's the general gist of it...

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Actually, it's not how it works. Politics and aid are not the same issue and not interdependent

Not that long ago, Indonesian troops were trying to kill their Australian counterparts in East Timor.

and thirty odd years before that, Australian troops were shooting at Indonesian troops.

That doesn't count as 'we' are the White tribe of Asia and Indons are little brown people . . . isn't that obvious . . . sheesh

[samran]

Yeah, forgot. I'm half Thai you see. Not only does that make me 50% lazy and untrustworthy, I also forget that I can put on my colonialism hat.

Appriciate the reminder.

[GrantSmith]

 

Actually, it's not how it works.  Politics and aid are not the same issue and not interdependent 

Ummm.. Suggest you have another crack at it..

If the government of the day suggests that aid should be cut back and it is passed, well, guess what happens?

It certainly doesn't get increased..

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[GrantSmith]

Yeah, forgot. I'm half Thai you see. Not only does that make me 50% lazy and untrustworthy, I also forget that I can put on my colonialism hat.

Appriciate the reminder.

But you must wear a fedora.. And to the side... Authenticity and all that..

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[Sing_Sling]

Yeah, forgot. I'm half Thai you see. Not only does that make me 50% lazy and untrustworthy, I also forget that I can put on my colonialism hat.

Appriciate the reminder.

So, you are right only half the time . . . 'we' on the other hand are always right

Actually, it's not how it works. Politics and aid are not the same issue and not interdependent

Ummm.. Suggest you have another crack at it..

If the government of the day suggests that aid should be cut back and it is passed, well, guess what happens?

It certainly doesn't get increased..

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You're talking about a process that is possible - yes, it is. The issue, though, was not sending aid to (eg) tsunami victims because Australia wants the Indons to take more refugees. This doesn't happen as easily as you think

[Scott]

I think the rhetoric should be toned down a little.

One particularly nasty post has been deleted.

[chooka]

I think the rhetoric should be toned down a little.

One particularly nasty post has been deleted.

Come on Scott you must agree Australia does everything for Indonesia without a thank you. It is like helping the the little old lady across the road then she shoots you.. The Amount that Australia does for Indonesia, like providing military hardware, training of military officers at ADFA, the foreign Aid, building of muslim schools and hospitals and the list goes on and then Australia should just sit back and accept what they throw our way and say thank you.

They spied on the P.M of Australia and other officials in 2004 and got caught and never in 7 yrs have they said sorry but demand a sorry because they are a superior race in 2013. At the same time they DEMAND the sorry they are still asking for and accepting the handouts.

Australia has been kicked around and abused for years, yes it let's itself be beat up by the kindergarten kids because it is a coward.

Yes I am an Aussie and totally ashamed of the country.

Everyone who has every served in the Australian Military knows who the Kamarians are.

Edited November 23, 2013 by chooka

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[MK1]

I think the rhetoric should be toned down a little.

One particularly nasty post has been deleted.

Come on Scott you must agree Australia does everything for Indonesia without a thank you. It is like helping the the little old lady across the road then she shoots you.. The Amount that Australia does for Indonesia, like providing military hardware, training of military officers at ADFA, the foreign Aid, building of muslim schools and hospitals and the list goes on and then Australia should just sit back and accept what they throw our way and say thank you.

They spied on the P.M of Australia and other officials in 2004 and got caught and never in 7 yrs have they said sorry but demand a sorry because they are a superior race in 2013. At the same time they DEMAND the sorry they are still asking for and accepting the handouts.

Australia has been kicked around and abused for years, yes it let's itself be beat up by the kindergarten kids because it is a coward.

Yes I am an Aussie and totally ashamed of the country.

Everyone who has every served in the Australian Military knows who the Kamarians are.

I for one don’t disagree with anything you’ve said Chooka. However, we should keep it clean otherwise we're just as likely to aggravate the situation even more.

Edited November 23, 2013 by MK1

[Scott]

You are welcome to your opinion, but please exercise care in how you express that opinion.

[David48]

I think one thing to be remembered is what is happening in Indonesia at the moment is occurring very strongly in the light of National Politics on both sides of the divide.

Tony Abbott in the view of the Boat People Issue being such a focus in the recent Federal Election.

And SBY who has been viewed as a friend of Australia and been criticised strongly at home (Indonesia) over that so, if his reaction may seem disproportionate, (everybody ears-drop) it's more likely simply bluster and he is playing to his home, Indonesian audience.

.

[David48]

Just saw this one from 'The Age'

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted as well as replies.

[chooka]

I actually liked the cartoon from the Australian media but I understand it is not from the Nation so it along with news reports are not acceptable. It was funny and very true tho.

[Publicus]

The real problem that happened was Tony Abbott would not let the Indonesian Press corp into a news conference. What a conceited pric! Everything was fine until then; the Indonesians new of the phone taps, but there pres is now fueling the fire. Imagine if you excluded the Thai Press on home soil. Abbott has got holes in his feet over this one.

Just tonight on the ABC news, big Tony's adviser gave a narcissistic opinion on what is now happening. Which he is probably not far off the mark, but uou just don't say it in public or tweet as this man did.

Abbott as the Prime Minister needs to show good decision making skills as a diplomat. Has not got to the plate yet.

Abbott does seem more than a bit of a klutz.

In a situation such as this Abbott really has to say something to SBK, given especially Australia and Indonesia are closest neighbors (Papua New Guinea) which makes each important to the other. Australia is a rich country and Indonesia's GDP recently hit and now exceeds USD $1 trillion. They're big dogs on the block in the G-20, in East-Southeast-South Asia, but to one another in particular.

Prez Obama had to call Angela Merkel after the personal phone tapping thing and say something humble or expressing awareness of the sensitivity of the issue, expressing sympathy for Merkel's abused sensibilities and sounding at least implicitly contrite.

Abbott doesn't have to kiss anybody's arse in this but he might do well to be neighborly and, if nothing else, diplomatic.

Yes there are always differences between neighbors, to include resentments and inherent frictions, especially when the neighbors are predicated in two different civilizations, which makes some kind of gesture in this particular situation all the more important.

The US and Canada have discomforting tussles even though each strives to be a backslapping friendly neighbor. Neither government for instance required a passport of its neighbor nationals until after September 11, 2001 when the US-initiated Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative changed that. Still, for Canadians and Americans the changes are mostly on paper. (The WHTI has caused newly complicated travel between the two countries, but a passport to get in is still not required - the only instance of the US exempting the passport entry requirement going back many years.)

Prime Minister Tony Abbott could well exercise some diplomacy here.

Mexico and the United States aren't always the friendliest of neighbors but the leaders still smile when they shake hands even if their teeth are audibly grinding.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Publicus

[chooka]

The real problem that happened was Tony Abbott would not let the Indonesian Press corp into a news conference. What a conceited pric! Everything was fine until then; the Indonesians new of the phone taps, but there pres is now fueling the fire. Imagine if you excluded the Thai Press on home soil. Abbott has got holes in his feet over this one.

Just tonight on the ABC news, big Tony's adviser gave a narcissistic opinion on what is now happening. Which he is probably not far off the mark, but uou just don't say it in public or tweet as this man did.

Abbott as the Prime Minister needs to show good decision making skills as a diplomat. Has not got to the plate yet.

Abbott does seem more than a bit of a klutz.

In a situation such as this Abbott really has to say something to SBK, given especially Australia and Indonesia are closest neighbors (Papua New Guinea) which makes each important to the other. Australia is a rich country and Indonesia's GDP recently hit and now exceeds USD $1 trillion. They're big dogs on the block in the G-20, in East-Southeast-South Asia, but to one another in particular.

Prez Obama had to call Angela Merkel after the personal phone tapping thing and say something humble or expressing awareness of the sensitivity of the issue, expressing sympathy for Merkel's abused sensibilities and sounding at least implicitly contrite.

Abbott doesn't have to kiss anybody's arse in this but he might do well to be neighborly and, if nothing else, diplomatic.

Yes there are always differences between neighbors, to include resentments and inherent frictions, especially when the neighbors are predicated in two different civilizations, which makes some kind of gesture in this particular situation all the more important.

The US and Canada have discomforting tussles even though each strives to be a backslapping friendly neighbor. Neither government for instance required a passport of its neighbor nationals until after September 11, 2001 when the US-initiated Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative changed that. Still, for Canadians and Americans the changes are mostly on paper. (The WHTI has caused newly complicated travel between the two countries, but a passport to get in is still not required - the only instance of the US exempting the passport entry requirement going back many years.)

Prime Minister Tony Abbott could well exercise some diplomacy here.

Mexico and the United States aren't always the friendliest of neighbors but the leaders still smile when they shake hands even if their teeth are audibly grinding.

Indonesia and Australia both have to apologise and it shouldn't just be the little country bowing down to Indonesia. They have both done the same thing

[Credo]

If an apology is done right, they can both claim to be the winner.

[Sing_Sling]

What publicus said:

Abbott doesn't have to kiss anybody's arse in this but he might do well to be neighborly and, if nothing else, diplomatic.

Despite protestations to the contrary, this isn't a 'whine - they didn't say sorry in 2006/1996/1983/1970 etc.... - so we shouldn't say sorry now! Dummyspitting nonsense

[Publicus]

What publicus said:

Abbott doesn't have to kiss anybody's arse in this but he might do well to be neighborly and, if nothing else, diplomatic.

Despite protestations to the contrary, this isn't a 'whine - they didn't say sorry in 2006/1996/1983/1970 etc.... - so we shouldn't say sorry now! Dummyspitting nonsense

"Dummyspitting nonsense"????

That might be one of the harshest statements made at the thread, one that probably goes nowhere.

It probably will take the two sides some time to stop brooding or shouting and throwing barbs back and forth, but it shouldn't.

Both sides already should have precluded the resentments and antagonisms going on from ever having come forward.

This is a very public row that does no one any good.

Australia should stand up for itself, sure, and OZ is a rich and respected country with the world's richest and most powerful countries as its friends, formal allies and/or trading partners. OZ isn't such a little guy in this.

So I have to say SKB wouldn't be carrying on like this against another Asean country, so there really isn't any good reason he should be carrying on as he has been. It would seem SKB is the little guy as in character.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott should step up to show that OZ is the better neighbor and elected government by taking the lead in resolving this. Perhaps a third party needs to step in but I don't know who.

[simple1]

What publicus said:

Abbott doesn't have to kiss anybody's arse in this but he might do well to be neighborly and, if nothing else, diplomatic.

Despite protestations to the contrary, this isn't a 'whine - they didn't say sorry in 2006/1996/1983/1970 etc.... - so we shouldn't say sorry now! Dummyspitting nonsense

"Dummyspitting nonsense"????

That might be one of the harshest statements made at the thread, one that probably goes nowhere.

It probably will take the two sides some time to stop brooding or shouting and throwing barbs back and forth, but it shouldn't.

Both sides already should have precluded the resentments and antagonisms going on from ever having come forward.

This is a very public row that does no one any good.

Australia should stand up for itself, sure, and OZ is a rich and respected country with the world's richest and most powerful countries as its friends, formal allies and/or trading partners. OZ isn't such a little guy in this.

So I have to say SKB wouldn't be carrying on like this against another Asean country, so there really isn't any good reason he should be carrying on as he has been. It would seem SKB is the little guy as in character.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott should step up to show that OZ is the better neighbor and elected government by taking the lead in resolving this. Perhaps a third party needs to step in but I don't know who.

Indonesian foreign relations primary focus is USA & China; although important it is not Australia.

Under the leadership of SBY, Indonesia has constantly claimed in recent years that it has put a great deal of effort to build friendly relations with Australia. Australia has broken some Treaty terms that it agreed with Indonesia that truly annoyed Indonesia and made them suspicious of Australias trustworthiness. Policy statements & intended actions made by Abbott in his 'Stop the Boats' campaign leading up to the recent elections were considered to be an insult to the Indonesian government & people. The Australian media news release that Australia spied on SBY's wife in 2009 has contributed to the souring of relations. With this background, whilst one can understand Abbott's public position it is not helping to defuse the current tensions; lets see if his letter to SBY breaks the ice.

Indonesian defence spending for 2013/14 is only US$9 billion, whereas Australia current spending is around US$26.5 billion this budget year. However, Indonesia is projected to be the world’s 7th largest economy by 2030 together with increased defence spending & a forecast growth to a 130+ million middle class by 2030. I doubt Indonesia, in the medium term, is going to bow to Australian political pressure. Australia needs to get its head around managing the changing dynamics in the relationship.

Edited November 25, 2013 by simple1

[coma]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

[Publicus]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Yes, this is an occasion for the elected government of Australia to show it is the wiser and in fact the better elected government.

Edited November 25, 2013 by Publicus

[chooka]

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

[Sing_Sling]

"Dummyspitting nonsense"????

That might be one of the harshest statements made at the thread, one that probably goes nowhere.

It probably will take the two sides some time to stop brooding or shouting and throwing barbs back and forth, but it shouldn't.

Both sides already should have precluded the resentments and antagonisms going on from ever having come forward.

This is a very public row that does no one any good.

Australia should stand up for itself, sure, and OZ is a rich and respected country with the world's richest and most powerful countries as its friends, formal allies and/or trading partners. OZ isn't such a little guy in this.

So I have to say SKB wouldn't be carrying on like this against another Asean country, so there really isn't any good reason he should be carrying on as he has been. It would seem SKB is the little guy as in character.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott should step up to show that OZ is the better neighbor and elected government by taking the lead in resolving this. Perhaps a third party needs to step in but I don't know who.

I was agreeing with you . . . you are far too quick to cry foul on others - please re-read. Calling on Indons to apologise before we do is dummyspitting nonsense

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

In a heartbeat . . . we wouldn't stand a chance

[samran]

"Dummyspitting nonsense"????

That might be one of the harshest statements made at the thread, one that probably goes nowhere.

It probably will take the two sides some time to stop brooding or shouting and throwing barbs back and forth, but it shouldn't.

Both sides already should have precluded the resentments and antagonisms going on from ever having come forward.

This is a very public row that does no one any good.

Australia should stand up for itself, sure, and OZ is a rich and respected country with the world's richest and most powerful countries as its friends, formal allies and/or trading partners. OZ isn't such a little guy in this.

So I have to say SKB wouldn't be carrying on like this against another Asean country, so there really isn't any good reason he should be carrying on as he has been. It would seem SKB is the little guy as in character.

Prime Minister Tony Abbott should step up to show that OZ is the better neighbor and elected government by taking the lead in resolving this. Perhaps a third party needs to step in but I don't know who.

I was agreeing with you . . . you are far too quick to cry foul on others - please re-read. Calling on Indons to apologise before we do is dummyspitting nonsense

The Kompas poll, published on Monday :

89 per cent of people support Australia being given a "harsh warning", while 39 per cent of people want further cuts to diplomatic ties.

The poll also showed 7.6 per cent of people would support some sort of military action, while an overwhelming majority of 91.5 per cent were against such a move.

63 per cent of people agree with the decision to recall ambassador Nadjib Riphat Kesoema from Canberra.

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

In a heartbeat . . . we wouldn't stand a chance

unless the Americans invoke ANZUS and come to help us.

yeah, okay, I'll go get my bag.....

[simple1]

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

In a heartbeat . . . we wouldn't stand a chance

Why do you say that, would not the US step in to assist and repell any Indonesian attempt to attack the Australian mainland? BTW has Indonesian ever made a meaningful direct threat to attack Australia?

[samran]

Military action, Indonesia would probably overrun Australia in 10 minutes. Much larger and more powerful military than Australia.

In a heartbeat . . . we wouldn't stand a chance

Why do you say that, would not the US step in to assist and repell any Indonesian attempt to attack the Australian mainland? BTW has Indonesian ever made a meaningful direct threat to attack Australia?

no, but it is a favourite bogey man of the Indonesia is a threat to Australia mob on the right (except the bits around Bali - we like them).