Suthep pessimistic on mainstream political solutions

[webfact]

Suthep pessimistic on mainstream political solutions
By English News



BANGKOK, Nov 28 – Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban said today that the government’s resignation and House dissolution would neither solve Thailand’s political problems nor eliminate widespread election cheating.

He said he believed the Senate-rejected amnesty bill could be reincarnated under the parliamentary system.

The former Democrat MP who has engineered political rallies since October 31 said anti-government allies have demonstrated at city halls in many provinces countrywide to join the movement to wipe out what he calls the Thaksin regime.

Damages to the country, especially from the government’s populist policy, will be more severe if the Thaksin regime continues to be deeply-rooted in Thailand, he said.

Former Democrat MP Ekanat Prompan, spokesman of the anti-government group, said the group has set up three separate rally stages at the Democracy Monument on Ratchdamnoen Avenue, the government complex on Chaeng Wattana Road, and the Finance Ministry on Soi Aree.

Similar anti-government activities are reported in more than 30 provinces and state enterprise employees will join the protesters after the Federation of State Enterprise Labour Unions officially announced work stoppage today and tomorrow.

Two separate groups rallied at the Defence Ministry and Education Ministry today, he said.

At the government complex on Chaeng Wattana Road, civil servants reported to work as usual despite an overnight demonstration, led by Mr Suthep, at one of the buildings in the compound. A temporary kitchen was promptly set up to feed the protesters.

Some government officials and varied civil servants openly gave their moral support to and had their photos taken with protesters. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-11-28

[15Peter20]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

[Siripon]

Keep going Suthep, get together with all civic groups to talk about political reform- keep the politicians involved to an absolute minimum.

Hold another massive rally this Sunday.

[wolf5370]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.

He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.

So, he is between a rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.

At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

[Bluespunk]

"Suthep pessimistic on mainstream political solutions"

Well, yes, we can see that.

[catmac]

Keep going Suthep, get together with all civic groups to talk about political reform- keep the politicians involved to an absolute minimum.

Hold another massive rally this Sunday.

And pray do tell us what Suthep is if he is not a POLITICIAN. A lifelong member of the "snouts in the trough" brigade, who now has the audacity to call Thaksin corrupt........if ever the pot called the kettle black!

[khunsiam]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.

He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.

So, he is between a rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.

At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

Chamlong will come to the fore, he 's behind this all.

[edwinchester]

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

[h90]

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

Land in Phuket .....

[MJP]

Keep going Suthep, get together with all civic groups to talk about political reform- keep the politicians involved to an absolute minimum.

Hold another massive rally this Sunday.

And pray do tell us what Suthep is if he is not a POLITICIAN. A lifelong member of the "snouts in the trough" brigade, who now has the audacity to call Thaksin corrupt........if ever the pot called the kettle black!

This is exactly it.

All piggies fighting over the same trough filled the feedstock of the poor and vulnerable. It's all deeply unpleasant to witness.

[h90]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

If you are long enough in Thailand it seems meaningful....whereever you go is Shinawatra...supply of the airports, computer for the government offices, oil purchases, Thai airways managment, etc etc etc....so many people just want that corrupt family rooted out and don't want to hear that name anymore.

[Robby nz]

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

Try reading up on that one then you may be able to get it right.

Out of 400 odd plots 11 were given to families with money.

All those who got titles had long time history of occupation of the titles they were given.

This has been covered on these pages several times and links given.

[huanga]

This just goes further to show that Suthep does not want to compromise, same as what the Red Shirts did. Lots of inconvenience, getting on everyone's nerves, lots of verbal slogans, etc. He is simply repeating the same Red Shirt tactic under a different cloak. All he really wants is a confrontational spark that will eventually bring innocent blood onto YL's hand, same as what the Red Shirt did to him and Abhisit before.

Let's see if this government will go down the same road? It doesn't matter if the army is going to disperse the crowd or the police, when they have enough of this circus. (same could also be said about the Red Shirt before) As long as there is innocent blood at the end of it, it will suffice Suthep and these PAD leaders real motives.

If they really want peace for Thailand and her people, will anyone with common sense resort to this tactic? (Same also could be said about the Red Shirts back then). All they want to achieve is "an eye for an eye" at the expense of the unsuspecting others and in the name of "thaimocracy".

So ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the zoo politics in Thailand, where you can draw parallel for all the zoo animals to their politicians. It's never about reform, the well being of her citizens or the progression of this country. It's all about getting even. If you don't see it, look back at the Red Shirt protest and you will see the same eerie similarity in its essence. And we all know how a different set of animals carried out that protest and how it ended. Do we really want to go down that road again? Getting manipulated by a new set of animals?

Edited November 28, 2013 by huanga

[antimuds]

Remember the flooding of bangkok 2 years back? Supplies from other countries to help was pack up by helpful thai people and foreigners to load on trucks. However, there is a banner written from thaksin????

Taking people credits to his own.. wat a low class person he is.

[Thaddeus]

Keep going Suthep, get together with all civic groups to talk about political reform- keep the politicians involved to an absolute minimum.

Hold another massive rally this Sunday.

And pray do tell us what Suthep is if he is not a POLITICIAN. A lifelong member of the "snouts in the trough" brigade, who now has the audacity to call Thaksin corrupt........if ever the pot called the kettle black!

Could be.

Could also be poacher turned gamekeeper.

Only time will tell.

[wolf5370]

To lighten the mood a little

One day a florist went to a barber for a haircut. After the cut, he asked about his bill, and the barber replied, 'I cannot accept money from you, I'm doing com...munity service this week.' The florist was pleased and left the shop. When the barber went to open his shop the next morning, there was a 'thank you' card and a dozen roses waiting for him at his door. Later, a cop comes in for a haircut, and when he tries to pay his bill, the barber again replied, 'I cannot accept money from you, I'm doing community service this week.' The cop was happy and left the shop. The next morning when the barber went to open up, there was a 'thank you' card and a dozen doughnuts waiting for him at his door. Then a Member of Parliament came in for a haircut, and when he went to pay his bill, the barber again replied, 'I cannot accept money from you. I'm doing community service this week.' The Member of Parliament was very happy and left the shop. The next morning, when the barber went to open up, there were a dozen Members of Parliament lined up waiting for a free haircut. And that, my friends, illustrates the fundamental difference between the citizens of our country and the politicians who run it.

[15Peter20]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

 
He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.
 
He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.
 
So, he is between a  rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.
 
At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

Thanks for the reply. You've probably got a better understanding of this than I. But you're saying that Suthep is rallying because he 'wants a solution...'. Usually when people want others to believe in them, its because they think they've GOT a solution. He doesn't have a clearly defined solution (witness all the 'perhaps's in your explanation), so how can he expect a loyal base? I think he's scared to reiterate a non-elected leadership solution (if that's what he wants), as he knows it is so abhorrent to most Thais.

Surely people will only countenance change if they can see what the alternative will be. I think these demos are gonna fizzle out unless more money is pumped into them.

[edwinchester]

 

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

 

 

Try reading up on that one then you may be able to get it right.

 

Out of 400 odd plots 11 were given to families with money.

 

All those who got titles had long time history of occupation of the titles they were given.

 

This has been covered on these pages several times and links given.

So above board it led to the downfall of the elected govt! People power 1990's style.

And your take on the asset concealment?

[wolf5370]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.

He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.

So, he is between a rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.

At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

Thanks for the reply. You've probably got a better understanding of this than I. But you're saying that Suthep is rallying because he 'wants a solution...'. Usually when people want others to believe in them, its because they think they've GOT a solution. He doesn't have a clearly defined solution (witness all the 'perhaps's in your explanation), so how can he expect a loyal base? I think he's scared to reiterate a non-elected leadership solution (if that's what he wants), as he knows it is so abhorrent to most Thais.

Surely people will only countenance change if they can see what the alternative will be. I think these demos are gonna fizzle out unless more money is pumped into them.

I agree that I think he is a little directionless - I guess this is because there is no clear direction for his goal, which is a Thaksin free government. Calling for elections far from guarantees this.

I do not think money is an issue here like it was in say the 2010 (or perhaps in the PAD airport takeover). There seems to be real feeling this time. Many Thais I speak with are wired into it - and there was a protest before the big gums joined don't forget. I would suggest that it will actually work the other way around - and support will be attracted to the "movement" (my word) rather than the driving force behind the "movement". People are taking unpaid time off work to go - rather than being paid as if it is work to attend - big difference. I think those waiting for money to dry up may be in for a long wait - it doesn't cost much to feed people, it costs to pay a daily stipend for being there.

[Spare]

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

Land in Phuket .....

Suthep was the MP that caught the illegal land thief. Chuan was the PM, not Suthep. Go blame Chuan and not Suthep.

[FangFerang]

No one seems to accept a balance of power between conservatives and liberals anywhere. US gridlock, British incontinence in regards to social policy, Dutch struggles with Rotterdam, these are all just symptoms. One side says PROGRESS NOW, the other says PROGRESS NEVER. No one wants to com,promise and because of that nothing changes.

This is deeply disturbing and deeply sad. This is how civil wars start...

This is not a football match. This is people's lives, people's children. Too many foriegners are flippant about all this. Yes, there are comic aspects, yes this is Asia, where corruption is an art form...but does that make human beings involved in this inconsequential and trivial, so that posters say "my team should win"?

What arrogant stupidity. NO, this is not as rugby match. And we are guests, not vital VIP's who contribute greatly to the land in which we are living.

This is not a small game. This is a young democracy struggling to find balance. I propose that we encourage stability, instead of jumping at the chance to criticise one side or the other with lop-sided arguments that stir the pot.

Are our own home nations so perfect that we can pretend to know, much less occupy, the high moral ground?

NO. We are guests. Please remember that.

Thais, including my Thai wife and coming child, deserve that much respect and love to hope for their future instead of picking sides like punters at a snooker tournament.

There is dynamite all over the Bangkok streets today. How DARE you throw matches around just because you can turn tail and run home when there is an explosion.

Sometimes...I am ashamed to be a farang here.

[pedro01]

No one seems to accept a balance of power between conservatives and liberals anywhere. US gridlock, British incontinence in regards to social policy, Dutch struggles with Rotterdam, these are all just symptoms. One side says PROGRESS NOW, the other says PROGRESS NEVER. No one wants to com,promise and because of that nothing changes.

This is deeply disturbing and deeply sad. This is how civil wars start...

This is not a football match. This is people's lives, people's children. Too many foriegners are flippant about all this. Yes, there are comic aspects, yes this is Asia, where corruption is an art form...but does that make human beings involved in this inconsequential and trivial, so that posters say "my team should win"?

What arrogant stupidity. NO, this is not as rugby match. And we are guests, not vital VIP's who contribute greatly to the land in which we are living.

This is not a small game. This is a young democracy struggling to find balance. I propose that we encourage stability, instead of jumping at the chance to criticise one side or the other with lop-sided arguments that stir the pot.

Are our own home nations so perfect that we can pretend to know, much less occupy, the high moral ground?

NO. We are guests. Please remember that.

Thais, including my Thai wife and coming child, deserve that much respect and love to hope for their future instead of picking sides like punters at a snooker tournament.

There is dynamite all over the Bangkok streets today. How DARE you throw matches around just because you can turn tail and run home when there is an explosion.

Sometimes...I am ashamed to be a farang here.

You get nosebleeds that high up on your horse?

[philw]

I still don't get what he is rallying for now. Can anybody clearly explain? Just saying they want to 'root out the Shinawatr clan' is not a meaningful platform upon which to campaign to bring down a government. I think a few more details might be in order.

He means that just dissolving the house and calling another election would do nothing as the Shinawatrs are too entwined and would simply reform. He wants a solution where they can be removed from politics (including the cronies) and then a return to "true" democracy.

He may be right on the first count - most think that some semblance of PTP would just get straight back in - and with Thaksin's pull on the party, would still be in control. On the other hand, he also knows that even if PTP fractured (as I personally think it would), that Dems or any party he starts, are unlikely to get into power either.

So, he is between a rock and a hard place - only answer he has is an appointed administration (aka non-elected) government (perhaps cross-party - perhaps non-partisan - perhaps all his own people) to preside over the clean up of politics, government and civil service to remove the cronies/corruption and make a fairer playing field, before stepping down for free elections.

At least that's the gist of it as far as I can understand.

Chamlong will come to the fore, he 's behind this all.

And probably a man with a pipe being encouraged by a gay in uniform and a certain media bullet magnet..........

[edwinchester]

 

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

 

Land in Phuket .....

 

 

Suthep was the MP that caught the illegal land thief. Chuan was the PM, not Suthep. Go blame Chuan and not Suthep.

Suthep was the Agricultural Minister that was why he was the one responsible for handing out the titles. Chuan dissolved the house to avoid the inevitable loss of the no confidence vote. The Dems have not won a General Election since.

[wolf5370]

No one seems to accept a balance of power between conservatives and liberals anywhere. US gridlock, British incontinence in regards to social policy, Dutch struggles with Rotterdam, these are all just symptoms. One side says PROGRESS NOW, the other says PROGRESS NEVER. No one wants to com,promise and because of that nothing changes.

This is deeply disturbing and deeply sad. This is how civil wars start...

This is not a football match. This is people's lives, people's children. Too many foriegners are flippant about all this. Yes, there are comic aspects, yes this is Asia, where corruption is an art form...but does that make human beings involved in this inconsequential and trivial, so that posters say "my team should win"?

What arrogant stupidity. NO, this is not as rugby match. And we are guests, not vital VIP's who contribute greatly to the land in which we are living.

This is not a small game. This is a young democracy struggling to find balance. I propose that we encourage stability, instead of jumping at the chance to criticise one side or the other with lop-sided arguments that stir the pot.

Are our own home nations so perfect that we can pretend to know, much less occupy, the high moral ground?

NO. We are guests. Please remember that.

Thais, including my Thai wife and coming child, deserve that much respect and love to hope for their future instead of picking sides like punters at a snooker tournament.

There is dynamite all over the Bangkok streets today. How DARE you throw matches around just because you can turn tail and run home when there is an explosion.

Sometimes...I am ashamed to be a farang here.

I guess you meant "incompetence" - no nappies required!

This is hardly a young democracy - its older than say Japan's, Korea's, Philipines', Cambodia's, Singapore's and so on. Now Burma/Myanmar is a new democracy.

You seem to think that having a Thai wife and kid on the way is a reason NOT to chose sides - or even to debate. This seems very odd - don't you care about the future of your family? I know I do - and I'm pretty sure that is what is behind most of the people here that have views and opinions. At most we are regurgitating news that is already out there and suggesting trends, possible outcomes, scenarios and giving our opinions on such items. This is hardly "throwing matches".

Oh and by the way - How DARE you suggest we do not respect Thailand because we care enough to follow the news and debate it.

[impulse]

Here's a question I'm asking out of ignorance. I don't understand Thai (or Asian) politics. I haven't been here long enough to suss out the players based on their past behavior and performance.

Is there any viable entity in Thailand that could come to power that would be anything other than a different feudal hierarchy?

Or is this just a battle for feeding rights at the trough, with the masses (who I've become fond of) being pawns?

Edited November 28, 2013 by impulse

[Rinrada]

With all his followers decked out in nice black uniforms (well t shirts at the moment) khun Thuggi always reminds me of a certain chap from not so recent Italian history....No... NOT Bunga Bunga...Berli........

but he does appear to have a rather similar profile and manners of old Benito .....aka " Il Duce"....Amilcare Andrea Mussolini.

At least HE got the trains running on time but should have avoided going anywhere near grand pianos.......

history repeating itself.....Mai KJ.??

[harrry]

Here's a question I'm asking out of ignorance. I don't understand Thai (or Asian) politics. I haven't been here long enough to suss out the players based on their past behavior and performance.

Is there any viable entity in Thailand that could come to power that would be anything other than a different feudal hierarchy?

Or is this just a battle for feeding rights at the trough, with the masses (who I've become fond of) being pawns?

Sadly I think the answer is really in your last question.

It is true though that in most countries self interest dominates politcal life even if it is only the self interest of the politician feeling good as he has succeeded in making a change in society that he likes (never mind that it is the best one).

Hopefully as time progresses we may get politicians who at least play lip service to the country's needs and those of its people.

Interestingly there are ways that although Thai politicians and leaders have always fed at the trough there was once a feeling that there was a duty to the citizens and at least the corruption was in the form of a commission on what is done that is good for the people. I think now is whatever can get the largest commission regaqrdless of whether the task is good for the country or harmfull.

Strangely I see some of this in the Thai public service where some try to do almost impossible tasks with the resources availabe so that the people benifit though there is always a degree of tea involved. At least with this the tea is to quench the thirst their hard work has given.

Edited November 28, 2013 by harrry

[MobileContent]

This is a man who transferred public land to his rich friends in Phuket and later concealed his own assets and now wants to halt corruption with his own appointed administration.

This is some Thai soap right?

Land in Phuket .....

Suthep was the MP that caught the illegal land thief. Chuan was the PM, not Suthep. Go blame Chuan and not Suthep.

1995 Corruption Scandal

The Democrat Party won elections in 13 September 1992, shortly after Black May, and formed a government. Suthep became Agriculture Minister. As part of the Sor Por Kor 4-01 (สปก.4-01) land reform scheme, Suthep gave title deeds to 592 plots of land in Khao Sam Liam, Kamala and Nakkerd hills of Phuket province to 489 farmers. It was later found that members of 11 wealthy families in Phuket were among the recipients. Suthep addressed a huge crowd in his Surat Thani constituency a month before a no-confidence debate and called on his supporters to march on Bangkok in the hundreds of thousands to defend his reputation. The scandal led Prime Minister Chuan Leekpai of the Democrat Party to dissolve the House of Representatives in July 1995 in order to avoid the no-confidence debate. In subsequent elections, the Chart Thai party won a majority, leading to the downfall of Chuan Leekpai's Democrat Party-led government.

2009 Disqualification as MP

In 2009, Suthep was accused of violating the Constitution of Thailand by holding equity in a media firm that had received concessions from the government. Under the 1997 Constitution of Thailand, which Suthep had supported, Members of Parliament are banned from holding stakes in companies which have received government concessions. In July 2009, the Election Commission announced that it would seek a ruling by the Constitutional Court to disqualify Suthep and 12 other Democrat MPs for having allegedly violated the charter. Suthep held a press conference a day later, announcing his decision to resign from Parliament. Suthep's resignation as an MP did not affect his status as Deputy Prime Minister and as a Cabinet member. If his case had been submitted to the Constitution Court, he would have been suspended from duty as Deputy Prime Minister. He insisted that his resignation was not a proof that he had done something wrong but that he was worried about status as Deputy Prime Minister.

Wikipedia don't really have much about Mr. Suthep.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suthep_Thaugsuban

Edited November 28, 2013 by MobileContent

[edwinchester]

Here's a question I'm asking out of ignorance.  I don't understand Thai (or Asian) politics.  I haven't been here long enough to suss out the players based on their past behavior and performance.

 

Is there any viable entity in Thailand that could come to power that would be anything other than a different feudal hierarchy?

 

Or is this just a battle for feeding rights at the trough, with the masses (who I've become fond of) being pawns?

No and yes.