Protesters demand that police take responsibility for Ramkhamhaeng deaths

[Mackie]

In fact, they were ilegally occupying the streets. Not only that, they were attacking people who were doing nothing more than using public transportation to get to a function. Your continued denial of their behaviour ( or justified in your view because a young woman may have been slapped) is very strange. Thugs are thugs, no matter te colour of the shirt or the uniform they are wearing

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

Again you get it totally wrong. The students at RU were not illegally occupying anything.

Illegally occupying the streets? I've got to remember this gem. What an abject nonsense mate.

The bottom line, no one invited red mobsters to Bangkok. To make matter worse, they were brought to Bangkok by the current government and a Thai tax payer paid for it. Surely, someone should be hold responsible for wasting substantial amount of public money for their own devious agendas.

[Bakseeda]

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

The victims of these shootings were students trying to leave their University.. nothing to do with occupying government buildings.. Shot by Red Shirt hitmen brought into Bangkok by Jutaporn and crew... But you should already know this..

[newcomer71]

I guess you are a little confused.

There were no live round shoot by police against students in Ramkhamhaeng University.

They even complained that police did not come to help... So how Police could have shoot students, if they weren't there?

According to the Bangkok Post report, they did come but they were unarmed and unable to get into the soi. I guess they did eventually manage to get into it though because this eyewitness testimony says the police arrived after two hours of continuous fighting and told everyone to calm down and go home: http://prachatai.com/english/node/3778

Yes, I know how the facts went, but I wrote what students complained of. If they complained that police didn't come to help, how would have been possible that polices shoot at them?

That actually they were late because incapacitated to move on the scene has been reported by various sources.

[Prbkk]

I wonder how you would have felt if confronted by them....I doubt that you would be quite so generous in your assessment

In fact, they were ilegally occupying the streets. Not only that, they were attacking people who were doing nothing more than using public transportation to get to a function. Your continued denial of their behaviour ( or justified in your view because a young woman may have been slapped) is very strange. Thugs are thugs, no matter te colour of the shirt or the uniform they are wearing

I guess if the protestors were not trying to illegally occupy government property then perhaps there would not have been any deaths?

Not saying they should not protest, but in the right way.Not condoning the cause of their deaths by shooting, simply pointing out they put themselves at risk.

Ultimately if the protestors had not been incited in to their actions by Suthep and entourage then they may be here today.

My sympathies to the families of the deceased.

Again you get it totally wrong. The students at RU were not illegally occupying anything.

Illegally occupying the streets? I've got to remember this gem. What an abject nonsense mate.

The bottom line, no one invited red mobsters to Bangkok. To make matter worse, they were brought to Bangkok by the current government and a Thai tax payer paid for it. Surely, someone should be hold responsible for wasting substantial amount of public money for their own devious agendas.

[tingtongteesood]

The media in Thailand have been very biased in their reporting and the foreign media don't have all the facts as they are too lazy to do real research, what happens here is quite unimportant to the rest of the world. There are a couple of websites that actually report the truth and they make for very interesting reading. Case in point, most media reports try to make it sound like the students killed defenseless reds, they fail to mention that the reds decided to beat up a girl for no reason, that the first person who was killed was a student who was shot in the back in cold blood by one of the black shirted militants. The government threatened that there would be violence a few days before these incidents and an MP even said the black shirts were coming. Everything that happened that night was down to the government shipping in their private militia to try and intimidate. That's how this administration works. They lie and cheat and threaten and try to intimidate until you back down for fear of your own safety. They gotta go now.

[Prbkk]

yes, keep repeating the big lie, over and over. Well-known strategy. I don't buy your nonsense and nor do any of the credible reporting agencies

The media in Thailand have been very biased in their reporting and the foreign media don't have all the facts as they are too lazy to do real research, what happens here is quite unimportant to the rest of the world. There are a couple of websites that actually report the truth and they make for very interesting reading. Case in point, most media reports try to make it sound like the students killed defenseless reds, they fail to mention that the reds decided to beat up a girl for no reason, that the first person who was killed was a student who was shot in the back in cold blood by one of the black shirted militants. The government threatened that there would be violence a few days before these incidents and an MP even said the black shirts were coming. Everything that happened that night was down to the government shipping in their private militia to try and intimidate. That's how this administration works. They lie and cheat and threaten and try to intimidate until you back down for fear of your own safety. They gotta go now.

[Mackie]

The only problem is that it's not a lie. Jatuporn said it publicly. It's recorded. That thug cannot keep his mouth shut. Hard luck mate. No one is buying your nonsense that red mobsters are innocent bunch and victims. They feed on violence.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Mackie

[Prbkk]

I'm not keen on red thugs either. I am referring to the specifics of this case. I've no doubt that reds can be, have been, just as horrible. But constant rewriting of this particular issue doesn't serve any good purpose

The only problem is that it's not a lie. Jatuporn said it publicly. It's recorded. That thug cannot keep his mouth shut. Hard luck mate. No one is buying your nonsense that red mobsters are innocent bunch and victims. They feed on violence.

[klauskunkel]

I believe that we are all Thais so we won't harm each other," the policewoman said.

what a nitwit.

[edwardandtubs]

I'm not keen on red thugs either. I am referring to the specifics of this case. I've no doubt that reds can be, have been, just as horrible. But constant rewriting of this particular issue doesn't serve any good purpose

The only problem is that it's not a lie. Jatuporn said it publicly. It's recorded. That thug cannot keep his mouth shut. Hard luck mate. No one is buying your nonsense that red mobsters are innocent bunch and victims. They feed on violence.

Please stop top posting. Have you noticed everyone else puts their reply after the quote? There's a reason for that.

[Ricardo]

And why assume it was the police using live rounds? Could've been anyone. 'A Reuters reporter saw a man in his early 20s fire three shots from a pistol in the direction of police protecting Government House. Protesters also threw dozens of petrol bombs.'

I'm sure you'll agree, if you re-read my post, that nowhere did I claim or assume "it was the police using live rounds", although there were claims earlier by one of the students that it had been a policeman, standing next to a group of Red-Shirt supporters, who had shot & wounded him.

The truth is also further muddied, by that Red-Shirt leader, who was caught a few months back, wearing a police-uniform to which he wasn't entitled.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the police-investigation into these incidents.

[Baerboxer]

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot thugs ?? Try reading about the Khmer Rouge before using them as a nonsensical reference.

The issue is the students were confined by sniper(s) taking shots at them. Photos of the criminal(s) doing this are available - dressed in black with an interesting insignia.

The University Rector called the police, who simply didn't respond. Eventually the King's Guard thankfully arrived and restored order.

Once again the RTP fail to do their duty.

[icare999]

And why assume it was the police using live rounds? Could've been anyone. 'A Reuters reporter saw a man in his early 20s fire three shots from a pistol in the direction of police protecting Government House. Protesters also threw dozens of petrol bombs.'

I'm sure you'll agree, if you re-read my post, that nowhere did I claim or assume "it was the police using live rounds", although there were claims earlier by one of the students that it had been a policeman, standing next to a group of Red-Shirt supporters, who had shot & wounded him.

The truth is also further muddied, by that Red-Shirt leader, who was caught a few months back, wearing a police-uniform to which he wasn't entitled.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the police-investigation into these incidents.

your taking mick aren't you police investigation

[bigbamboo]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

Do you have evidence that the PM ordered it?

Well technically the PM is supposed to be in charge so if she didn't then she could be called negligent for allowing a subordinate to issue the order.

However the PM did repeatedly state this would not happen, presumably to avoid facing the same accusations as Abhisit and Suthep.

No doubt Tart of the DSI will be on the case PDQ.

[Prbkk]

thanks, unfortunately I have some mobility issues that makes that and some other parts of the system a little harder for me than most..

I'm not keen on red thugs either. I am referring to the specifics of this case. I've no doubt that reds can be, have been, just as horrible. But constant rewriting of this particular issue doesn't serve any good purpose

The only problem is that it's not a lie. Jatuporn said it publicly. It's recorded. That thug cannot keep his mouth shut. Hard luck mate. No one is buying your nonsense that red mobsters are innocent bunch and victims. They feed on violence.

Please stop top posting. Have you noticed everyone else puts their reply after the quote? There's a reason for that.

[Ricardo]

And why assume it was the police using live rounds? Could've been anyone. 'A Reuters reporter saw a man in his early 20s fire three shots from a pistol in the direction of police protecting Government House. Protesters also threw dozens of petrol bombs.'

I'm sure you'll agree, if you re-read my post, that nowhere did I claim or assume "it was the police using live rounds", although there were claims earlier by one of the students that it had been a policeman, standing next to a group of Red-Shirt supporters, who had shot & wounded him.

The truth is also further muddied, by that Red-Shirt leader, who was caught a few months back, wearing a police-uniform to which he wasn't entitled.

It will be interesting to see what comes out of the police-investigation into these incidents.

your taking mick aren't you police investigation

I do take your point, but thought that it would be even less likely that any sort of truth might emerge, if the current DSI were tasked with it ?

Anyways the OP says that the students were asking for a police-investigation, who better to find out, why the police were so slow to arrive and apparently (Emptyset in #29 reporting on the Bangkok Post) unarmed too when they did get there ?

I'm trying to recall, when I last saw an unarmed Thai police-officer, clearly one going to a riot ought to have been !

[Old Man River]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

We don't have proof of this.

We do know that the police welcomed the 2010 Red Shirts with open arms (there was no police response when the Red Shirts took over the middle of Bangkok). Also, we do know that last week the Rector of Ramkamhaeng pleaded with the police to help save the students and his request was denied. At the very least, people should be able to understand why Suthep often mentions revamping the police.

Apart from this, the rest is hard to prove, at least at this point.

[A1Str8]

The protesters should worry about all the damage they have done to their country so far, including all kinds of property damage. I suppose they plan to pay for all that, while pointing a finger at others. I will never understand why they send 'children' to play a grown men's game.

[Dogmatix]

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Who in the government and police approved the plan to bus in 70,000 red shirts to a government owned stadium that is right next door to the largest university in Thailand whose student body is at least 30% from the South and when students were well known to be part of the broad movement against the government? Shouldn't the government stadium have been closed rather than the university? What is the Tourism and Sports Minister saying about this use of government property?

Why did the police fail to do their duty to rescue the students students trapped inside the university building who were fired on by marauding red shirt gunmen all night whenever they tried to make? Why was it necessary for for the King's Guard to step and perform the police's duty for them?

[Prbkk]

If poor planning/crowd control resulted in deaths, that should be the subject of investigation. The presumption that the fault is with the police is premature. The origin post seeks to blame the police for the death of RU students ( perpetuating what seems to be the myth that it was only RU students that died...or perhaps the fact that the complainants don't care about the others). I'm sure there will be an investigation of these events. I hope the investigation includes the management of RU. While I agree it is difficult for the Rector to have foreseen the level of thuggery his students would engage in, he must have known from past events that there was a likelihood of it. Who here does not have some experience or knowledge of how these students behave.

Yes, it is all very tragic

[grantbkk]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

 

 I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

The members photograph says it all...

[Dogmatix]

If poor planning/crowd control resulted in deaths, that should be the subject of investigation. The presumption that the fault is with the police is premature. The origin post seeks to blame the police for the death of RU students ( perpetuating what seems to be the myth that it was only RU students that died...or perhaps the fact that the complainants don't care about the others). I'm sure there will be an investigation of these events. I hope the investigation includes the management of RU. While I agree it is difficult for the Rector to have foreseen the level of thuggery his students would engage in, he must have known from past events that there was a likelihood of it. Who here does not have some experience or knowledge of how these students behave.

Yes, it is all very tragic

So no one in the government or police needs to take responsibility for the deliberately provocation of parking 70,000 red shirts on government property next the university?

[fasteddie]

All well and good, but the order authorizing the police to use live rounds against the peaceful protesters came from the PM, and that is where the responsibility ultimately lies.

I don't believe this has ever happened before in Thai history, the PM authorizing authorities to shoot with live rounds at peaceful protesters? Only 24 hours until retribution for her brutality is served.

At the same time that the PM/DM and FM-Surapong were assuring everyone (including foreign governments) that the government would not be using force, the water-cannon & tear-gas-grenades & rubber-bullets were being used, plus there were clearly real-bullets being used at times, if the injuries reported by hospitals are to be believed.

How can PM-Yingluck possibly hope to dodge responsibility for this, the DSI & Tharit have shown that senior-politicians can be accused, based on the 2010-riots, and there will surely be no double-standards shown here ?

The failure of the police to keep the students and Red-Shirts apart, or come when called by the Rector of R.U., led to the escalation from a single attack on a female-student for the 'crime' of wearing a whistle round her neck, to the nasty confrontations later-on.

Odd that Jonathan Head didn't mention that initial attack, in his report.

"Odd that Jonathan Head didn't mention that initial attack, in his report."

Not odd at all, it didn't happen.

[Loles]

How much shameless this yellow dirty lot ?

[Spartakos]

I live in that area and i use the gym located under that stadium. I have been there the very morning before the shootings. I saw at least a battalion of police stationed there 24/7, my question is: how were the police not able to assist the students while they were 100 meters away from the incedent, gunshots and explosions were heard through all night but the BIB did nothing to protect the students. That is very sick, the entire police force should be disbanded and banned from ever getting a job in civil services. Altho i am not sure what else they can do for living.

[sjaak327]

No, not hyberbolic. Have a look at these pictures and you will see why I make the comparison

http://pantip.com/topic/31321614

The key issue here: tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, some people might believe it. The events at RU were initiated by RU students. They decided to attack buses and taxis taking people to a legitimate rally. The fact that they did so in a way reminiscent of Pol Pot thugs is saddening and must have been terrifying for the innocent victims of it. The pictures are there for all to see.

The big lie, repeated so often, and without challenge is some quarters, is that RU students are the victims in this. Nonsense. While it is unfortunate that some innocent students may have been caught up in the events, they are NOT the ones who have died in this tragedy.

The Rector of RU would do well to reflect on his own mismanagement of the circumstances. Given the strong likelihood of violence given the proximity of the rally, he would have been well advised to close the campus beforehand, not after. Classic case of blaming the victims. Not surprising.

Pol Pot?

Can you ratchet your hyperbole down about a dozen notches or so?

As for your "key issue", I thought the key issue for this thread was the issue brought up in OP, namely police inaction, which doesn't appear to be addressed anywhere in the above frothing.

It's just the lemon next to the pie.

Wait for tomorrow, when the progressives and students reclaim the country for the benefit of all citizens(even if some lack the cognitive faculties to appreciate what is happening).

Nah, they will try to reclaim the country for their own benefit. It won't work, as Yingluck isn't as dumb as people on here think.

If they really want to reclaim the country they need to do that via democratic means, which means elections. Maybe just maybe they would be even able to run a decent campaign and run that campaign in parts of the country where they historically have performed piss poor, or in other words where they have completley neglected and ignored the electorate.

[icare999]

"as Yingluck isn't as dumb as people on here think."

now that is one of funniest things I've seen posted. But i guess the brainwashed are even dumber than I though

[sjaak327]

"as Yingluck isn't as dumb as people on here think."

now that is one of funniest things I've seen posted. But i guess the brainwashed are even dumber than I though

Grow up please. I am not a yingluck supporter at all and I am not brainwashed. Yes she was smart, as Suthep wants violence as that is the only way he will ever get his People's council in power. He would march on Government house and Metro Police HQ hoping for violence, only to find out that the police helped them inside ! Game set and match.

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

I live in that area and i use the gym located under that stadium. I have been there the very morning before the shootings. I saw at least a battalion of police stationed there 24/7, my question is: how were the police not able to assist the students while they were 100 meters away from the incedent, gunshots and explosions were heard through all night but the BIB did nothing to protect the students. That is very sick, the entire police force should be disbanded and banned from ever getting a job in civil services. Altho i am not sure what else they can do for living.

" Altho i am not sure what else they can do for living"

Maybe Highway robbery? they got a lot of training for that already.

[HuaHinHarold]

"as Yingluck isn't as dumb as people on here think."

now that is one of funniest things I've seen posted. But i guess the brainwashed are even dumber than I thought

I am not a yingluck supporter at all

uhmm... if you say so.

Posted by sjaak327

Congratulations to PT for this landslide victory.

Edited December 5, 2013 by HuaHinHarold