Age Discrimination Still Exist?

[BruceMangosteen]

It has become obvious to me that Thai's and perhaps some foreigners, still discriminate againist foreigners applying for teaching positions. In some cases the advertisement clearly states an age range, not to mention a few gender requests. On the "female" requests, that seems limited to primary etc.. However, the age matter remains at the high school and University level.

My question is very serious. Please don't read it and "laugh". Could a person indicate on his/her CV that she say graduated in 1988 instead of the actual 1978 etc.? I don't think anyone looks at it unless they are trying to figure out a persons age. It isn't matched up and counted. I doubt it's a crime to do it either. One could simply say it was a typing error. As for passport issues, at that point, it wouldn't matter and again, I doubt anyone is actually counting back to figure out a persons age.

I'm asking in short, if you say you are 49, but are actually 58, does it really matter in the big picture? Saying you are 48 gets you the interview, if they want to hire you and discover you are 58, where's the beef?

Over 60 is considered retired and old age in Thailand. Thai teachers retire at 60.

[zeichen]

Falsifying your details on your CV is fraud. Do not Commit fraud to get a job, Thai jails or deportion are not what you want instead of unemployment.

Age discrimination isn't too bad overall. The only problem is when you are older than mandatory Thai retirement age. I have worked in many schools in Asia and found Thailand to be the most tollerant of hiring people over 40. The day I turned 30 the number of offers I got in Korea was 1/10th than the previous year. Thailand has never been an issue. For those over 60 it is a problem if you do not have something desireable. Most universities and secondary schools I have contacts with will hire those over 60 if they have certain degrees or experience, but if they cannot justify why they are hiring a foreigner who is older and forcing Thais to retire, it really wouldn't be fare.

I have never heard of someone not getting hired because they were 50 unless they had no experience. Schools will typically hire inexperienced younger people rather than inexperienced older. But those with qualifications and or experience, never have a problem.

As for gender being an issue that is typically with primary school teachers or when a school wants to retain a balance.

Personally, I think that it is just honest and not discriminatory. If they are looking for a female teacher, I don't waste my time applying.

[Scott]

When I look at a resume, I look at the birthdate to check the age. Many times people have delayed graduation.

I do get quite upset with people who are directly deceptive.

Your best bet is to sell yourself based on your positive attributes. We have had teachers who started when they were in their early 70's. The director would have preferred someone younger, but there was no one qualified that was younger -- and yes we had a choice between a 24 year old, unqualified person or a 70+ qualified person. The 70 year old got it.

The difference is that we were looking for someone to teach mathyom English. Had it been for KG or early Prathom, then a 24 year old would probably get it.

[wayned]

I taught for 6 years after I reached age 60. The most negativity came from the Thai teachers that were forced to "retire" at 60 and came back and continued to teach on yearly contracts at a totally ridiculous low pay. It wasn't that they disliked me personally, but they knew what I was being paid and really were upset at the total inequality of the compensation package that they were forced to accept or walk away and they let management know.

I would have most likely been let go but it was in the sticks and I taught M1-M6 Math and it was very difficult to find qualified teachers willing to live there.

[SlyAnimal]

I think it's less about your age and more about your appearance.

Someone who's 50 but looks like they're 60 is less likely to be employed than someone who is 60 but looks like they're 50.

Teachers who look like they are young and full of energy will be perceived as better than teachers who look old and frail.

Particularly as Thai schools often want to get their teachers up to dance around like a monkey lol.

Putting a false age down probably won't change the amount of job offers you get by much, but it is illegal so not advised. Putting a nicer photo of you, even one from a year or two prior, might help though.m

[Loaded]

As someone who has hired many foreign teachers, I can specify in an advertisement anything I want. However, the reality is I have to take what's available. I may only have a few days to find someone. I may receive lots of replies but many are from people spamming every advert, people who are not in the country and people who definitely the school won't employ. Age requirements are nearly always thrown out the window. If they are smartly presented and behave respectfully, they get the job. In fact, many younger teachers are not accepted because they think a shirt that isn't tucked in, unpolished shoes and no wai to the director are acceptable.

[bundoi]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

[Loaded]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

All schools? non-formal? formal government? formal private?

I've never heard that and personally know teachers in their 60s who obtained work permits.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Loaded

[bundoi]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

All schools? non-formal? formal government? formal private?

I've never heard that and personally know teachers in their 60s who obtained work permits.

Hi Loaded, yes the upper limit mentioned was 65 for first-time wp; I was enquiring on behalf of a highly-qualified westerner. As you know, there have been quite a few changes to MoE regulations over the last few years; to the best of my knowledge this regulation applies to all types of schools, not sure if waivers can be sought or not.

[Neeranam]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

Not for universities.

[Phatcharanan]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

Not for universities.

Correct.

[connda]

Yes! Age discrimination is rampant. Falsifying your CV is not very wise. You would have to falsify your supporting documents too. That's fraud, and it's just wrong. That's life. Nobody said its fair. But, if you're qualified, you can still get a job if you're 60+. You've just got to be smart about it: Know the market, know your competition, and be able to market yourself better than a younger person.

Edited December 16, 2013 by connda

[phitsanulokjohn]

Age discrimination?Please don't take this as an insult,but i think it's naive thinking to believe all forms of discrimination doesn't exist here in the land of smiles.

[flyingdoc]

I agree that a smart appearance and convincing qualifications are a great bonus, but you have got to get to an interview in the first place, and that is where your age will be accepted or not!

[Scott]

Getting an interview has a lot to do with timing. If a school has an opening and you happen to be available, there is a decent chance you will get it.

[Emdog]

Agree age discrimination is rampant. Look at ads for job openings in the papers. Thais don't seem to realize they are shooting selves when they post age requirements for job that does not involve physical labor. Rather than the best person for job (which would help company and overall economy) they pick arbitrary age, usually 30. My gf works for company that is growing, and has too many documents to process due to growth. Rather than helping out with problem solving (more help, improved work flow) her boss said that maybe they should hire a younger girl to do the job.... <deleted>? She thinks younger girl with no experience is going to do a better job than 37 year old who knows what she is doing? This age discrimination crap is just one more example of how Thailand self destructs. And this time can't blame farangs!

[NoshowJones]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

All schools? non-formal? formal government? formal private?

I've never heard that and personally know teachers in their 60s who obtained work permits.

That's right, one taught in my school who was 74 years old, when I first met him, I thought he was in his early sixties.

[Colabamumbai]

There does exist age discrimination. One of the first questions I get is "How old are you."?

I tell them 45 and ask them in Thai "Law/Handsome Mai"?. After the director has settled down a bit I usually say the truth, it was 62 at my last interview 3 months ago and now 63. I get asked too regularly by staff at the school, and again I tell them 45 ........., but then I tell them the truth.

With experience teaching in Thailand and speaking Thai I find that I still have not had a problem finding teaching work. I have been employed continuously for 4 years, other than changing schools and a month off here and there. I have taught Thai Teachers and I have taught the "Welfare Department" of the Thai Govt. here in Isaan, Kalasin. Last year I was working at 2 schools and the govt., later in the day, three jobs at one time.

It has not been a problem for me and I am always honest. I tell them look at all the experience I bring. I am a Canadian, English speaker.

It is up to the individual school or director who is interviewing or hiring you.

I know a Thai Teacher, he was still teaching at 69, although most retire at 60.

[Pilotman]

This is a wide question, as it depends on what you teach and where. I am 66, but I am still a [paid] visiting lecturer at several Asian universities, including in Thailand, who seem to value experience over age, so long as you are not hanging around taking jobs that others could do. One thing that I would say is that post graduate qualifications mean a great deal in Asia and seem to off set to some extent age related issues. I hold a Doctorate in my specialism, aviation management, and that helps a great deal.

[Nemesis7]

False info on resume !!! Wonder how genuine the person is!!!

[ironhorse10]

Why would anyone put their age on a CV? Not good in any country. Maybe someone should take a class in Resume writiing,before trying to get a job.

[Scott]

In Thailand they ask for your age, and they can. You also usually have to supply a picture.

[Walter27]

Earlier this year (2013) my wife and I were offered teaching jobs in Thailand. We did not seek the jobs but were offered the positions because of people we met on trips to Thailand. 2 Thai Universities were interested in my wife for openings. She is keeping her current position in the USA as a college dean and professor for another year at least.

I was offered 3 different positions, partly I think so she would come, but also partly because I do something here that is in demand in Thailand and the Thai institutions wanted someone who could teach how to do it in English to help Thailand increase exports. We were told that we were considered experts in or fields and that age was

an advantage for us. Our ages are 73 and 65. Both of us have advanced degrees and training that is current. She has decades of teaching experience but I have little formal teaching experience. We are both interested in Thai traditions,culture , music, and history. Our contacts were pleased about this. It appears to me that age can be both an asset and a hinderance. As in other countries what you can do for the employers seems to count the most.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Scott
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[otherstuff1957]

I discussed this with MoE a couple of months ago. There are upper age limits for foreigners seeking 1st time work permits.

Do you mean the TCT or the MoE or the Labor Dept.? The TCT issues Teacher's Licences (or waivers for TLs) and the Labor Dept. issues Work Permits. I was not aware the the MoE had any control over any aspect of the paperwork nowadays.

[FiftyTwo]

Earlier this year (2013) my wife and I were offered teaching jobs in Thailand. We did not seek the jobs but were offered the positions because of people we met on trips to Thailand. 2 Thai Universities were interested in my wife for openings. She is keeping her current position in the USA as a college dean and professor for another year at least.

I was offered 3 different positions, partly I think so she would come, but also partly because I do something here that is in demand in Thailand and the Thai institutions wanted someone who could teach how to do it in English to help Thailand increase exports. We were told that we were considered experts in or fields and that age was

an advantage for us. Our ages are 73 and 65. Both of us have advanced degrees and training that is current. She has decades of teaching experience but I have little formal teaching experience. We are both interested in Thai traditions,culture , music, and history. Our contacts were pleased about this. It appears to me that age can be both an asset and a hinderance. As in other countries what you can do for the employers seems to count the most.

Why would anyone your ages want to still work?

I can see the Thai point of view, need to still work at age 70, no thanks.

[Scott]

For a lot of people who are teachers, the paperwork first goes to the Ministry of Education -- this includes your degree, transcript and various other documents. The MOE then writes a letter to the Embassy/Consulate where you will get your non-immigrant B visa, requesting that they issue you the visa. They make a preliminary approval of you as a teacher.

There are variations of this, and it must be for a school under the MOE, but they are involved.

[Smurfer]

I volunteered to donate blood today at a Phuket mall and was advised that the cut off age is 55 for donors......no reason given!

[Scott]

Donating blood is restricted for older people because of health risks for the donor. It's not really age discrimination, per se.